This is one small hospital in Florida...Unbelievable! PLEASE WATCH THIS SHORT VIDEO. EVERYONE NEEDS TO HEAR THIS. IT AFFECTS EVERY ONE OF US!!! This is why you can't afford good health care. This should offend every US tax paying citizen. This is not only happening in Florida, but every state in the U.S.
Before I make any comments, you'll need to watch the video.
So you're probably outraged that this could happen, especially if you're one of the many tens of millions of Americans who do not have health care or who are in mountains of debt because of health care bills that you can not pay. Imagine returning to your country of origin and leaving all of those bills behind -- and not even having to pay for your return flight! I'm sure you're thinking that that would be a nice option to have.
But as matters such as these go, especially things that seem so incredibly outrageous, there are always other factors to consider.
Let me discuss just one. There are over four million U.S. citizens living permanently in other countries. This doesn't include students studying abroad, nor are Americans serving at U.S. military bases on foreign part of the mix. It does include people working for multinational companies, however. So if we assume that half of this group (two million people) are simply living on their own in foreign countries and not for some company that probably provides them with health care, we probably should also assume that a large number of the remaining number of people are uninsured. Anecdotal observation on my part while spending years living abroad would lead me to conclude that there are a lot of people who just wanted to blow out of the U.S. and live somewhere else because they didn't appreciate their lives here -- like many of the nearly 700,000 Americans currently living in Canada.
Here's the hitch. A significantly large segment of these uninsured, free-wheeling expats are living in countries where they have access to government health care (e.g., Canada, UK, Mexico, among probably a hundred other places). What do you think happens when one of them who is living on the Cliffs of Moher on the west coast of Ireland is suddenly stricken with pneumonia? Do you think that the locals just let them die? Absolutely not. He or she goes to the hospital and the Irish doctors and nurses take care of the problem. And when it's time to pay? Sometimes the hospital is reimbursed and other times the staff simply says "You're welcome" as our fellow countryman or woman walks back into their Irish life.
Back in the 1980s I spent three days in a hospital in Mexico City having my appendix removed. It was a crazy story -- and I mean A CRAZY STORY -- and one that I never seem to get around to telling. It was in a hospital in a particularly gritty part of town and the doctors said that an appendectomy was a simple procedure for them compared to the gun shot and knife wounds they typically dealt with. My total bill? A pint of blood. They asked me to donate a pint of blood...adding to the end of the request, "if you wouldn't mind." That's it. Here's this gringo hanging out in Mexico who eats too many jalapenos and drinks too much tequila and ends up needing an emergency appendectomy -- and the people of Mexico have to pay for it. I'm sure some investigative journalist could have done a provocative expose about the hospital beds that were being occupied by "rich Americans" while poor Mexicans were being turned away.
I'm not saying that all things are equal and that U.S. citizens should be happy and willing to pay for the health care of people who are living as undocumented laborers in this country. What I am saying is that I'd like to see someone add up the total health care costs of Americans who are living abroad that are paid by foreign tax payers. If I had to guess, I'd surmise that the total cost for foreigners who lack insurance and are living legally or illegally here in this country would be more, but only because our health care costs are inflated. Many of the million dollar charges discussed in the video are largely unreasonable, even if they are true on paper. For example, my wife had shoulder surgery last summer and her insurance company was billed twenty bucks for a small bag of ice that they got out of an ice cooler. So I imagine that if the Guatemalan man receives a few packs of ice every day for a year, that amounts to $22,000 -- and I'm sure the hospital is keeping track of every single charge hoping that they'll one day be reimbursed by somebody...anybody.
I'm also not saying that this is something about which we ought not be concerned. And it's unreasonable to think that any hospital should absorb all of the charges for the care of someone who is not even a resident of the state in which that hospital or clinic is located. However, let's keep these matters in their proper context because when we point a finger at someone else there are always three directed back at us.
203 comments:
1 – 200 of 203 Newer› Newest»Healthcare is a huge issue in the United States. Rising costs are tightening their stranglehold around much of the nation. I respect the point made by Sam. One can definitely “flip the script” on this healthcare epidemic, showing that there are millions of Americans that take advantage of other countries healthcare. But that does not make it right! I personally do not care what some Americans are doing in other countries, my concern lies with MY healthcare cost and the fact that I am forced to pay thousands while a non-citizen pays nothing! It is not right that men and women who pay taxes that fuel this country are being taken advantage of. I thoroughly disagree with the hospital in the YouTube video. Doling out such exorbitant amounts of money is insane.
On the other hand, I must analyze the situation from a more humanist perspective. Many of these immigrants come to the hospitals in dire straights, some near death. How can an institution of health possibly turn them away? The answer is simple: they cannot. It is barbaric to think of a hospital could be capable of closing the door on an individual in need of kidney dialysis. So what is the American Health Care system to do? I don’t think that there is a clear answer; one has to take in the account from both an economic and humanist perspectives. However, it cannot be understated that these “freebies” are undermining our health care costs, and at a time of financial unrest it is something that we cannot afford.
I am scheduled for jaw surgery over the summer. The surgery is expensive, and luckily my surgery covers for it. Without insurance there would be no surgery. I provide this short story as a connection. This surgery is going to put a significant dent in my wallet, but I view it as something as a necessity. I cannot imagine someone getting this surgery for free, but that is the image I am getting after reading this blog. Therefore I am certainly disappointed that hospitals are giving free care, but only to a certain extent. I realize that in the end we must help each other, even if it comes at a great cost.
Some alternative methods must be in order for the “freebie” system to work. First off, I propose holding foreign countries accountable for footing the bill of an illegal immigrant’s health bill. It may sound unrealistic or impossible, but what better way to alleviate cost issues than by having the native country itself pay for their own? There is a solution to these cost issues, we just have not found them yet. In the future I hope that some alternative methods will be developed. Assisting illegal immigrants is the right thing to do, but it is thing to the wallets of Americans
The issue of healthcare is an extremely touchy subject to many people because of the lack of healthcare in the United States. It was one of the big political topics during the campaigns and throughout the election. But this issue is different: should illegal immigrants be allowed to access our hospitals? I should hope so. Although this may seem counterintuitive as a taxpayer, I think it would be inhumane to allow people to suffer and die because our hospitals refuse them care. Doctors have a responsibility to help people in need and I do not think that their status as immigrant or citizen should change that.
While watching the video, the first thing that came to mind was the fact that I feel Florida probably has a higher number of illegal immigrants in it than a lot of the Midwest or northern states. Then there is the fact that the cost of healthcare is probably not as high as the hospitals report. As Sam pointed out, the United States healthcare system has inflated costs relative to other countries. A bag of ice does not cost twenty dollars, even if for some strange reason bottled water was used, the cost would still be way less than that.
I think that healthcare is one of the areas that the United States should look elsewhere for a role model. Norway and Mexico as well as Canada and many other countries give healthcare to those living there. Sam’s story about being in Mexico may not be entirely common, but common within reason. This provides costs and problems for citizens of these countries, and I believe that these other countries handle the situations much better. Healthcare should be provided to all, not just the rich and working.
The United States is supposed to be a global leader and demonstrate to other countries tolerance and acceptance and help the world become more modernized and better off. We are not succeeding in this because of our healthcare system. How can we be a role model when so many of our own citizens lack healthcare and we are sending immigrants back to their countries directly from the hospital then complaining about the money that they owe the hospitals? If our government doesn’t find it important enough to try and stop illegal immigrants from entering the country then I do not see how they could possibly deny these same illegal immigrants the rights to healthcare. It seems like a matter of convenience and I do not think that is right. If it is inconvenient for the government to care about the immigrants when they are in good health because they are providing cheap labor, then it is only fair to be equally okay with the immigrants being here regardless of their health. If and when they need to go see a doctor or go to the hospital, they should be able to without fear of being sent back to their home country.
Healthcare charges have inflated tremendously over the past few years. Even an American citizen with insurance, can have difficulties paying for the additional health care service and fees that are not covered by insurance. Imagine being an illegal immigrant who works at a fast food restaurant and earns minimum wage, is supporting an entire family, and is suddenly faced with a deathly illness. Although these unpaid bills to patients who are uninsured is a debt to America and the health system, I have sympathy for those less fortunate illegal immigrants who came here looking for opportunities and a future for their family.
Even with this said, I think there needs to be a better system and communication between America and the home countries to these illegal immigrants regarding health care coverage. I know this would be very difficult to make nationwide, but isn’t there a way of creating a universal health care system? No matter what your passport says, or where you are any person has the right to health care. I know globalizing the health care system would be near impossible, I think it would help eliminate these insurance issues and unpaid bills.
Reflecting on the video posted about “illegal alien care”, I do have concerns regarding all of this essentially free health care to illegal immigrants. Should it really be fair and permitted for someone to receive this type of high-tech treatment that doctors are able to provide today for free? Whereas people are paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for the same care? I think if this issue is not resolved in the near future, the unpaid expenses will continue to compile and will begin to eat away at the quality and service to the patients who actually have insurance and are able to pay for their health care.
Regardless of the money issue of the health care system, I think it would be inhumane and immoral for a hospital to turn away a sick or dying person. Illegal immigrants came to the US primarily to find work and make money. Would it really be right to strip these striving individuals of their right to be able to fulfill their version of the “American Dream”? If you put yourself in the shoes of an illegal immigrant who desperately needs medical attention, I think the demand for health care would be the primary concern of the person rather than the means of how will they be able to pay for this care or surgery?
I am not trying to say illegal immigrants should be allowed to receive health care in the US without paying indefinitely... I am trying to say I think there should be an appropriate and realistic procedure which will allow these individuals to be treated in the US, and given a certain time period be allowed to pay for these charges.
I think that it is hard for me to truly have strong feelings about this article because I do not pay for my own health care and I think that there are much bigger issues that need attention than illegal immigrant benefits. However, I am going to try to pretend as though I do pay for health care and that I do care about illegal immigrants. My whole life I have been taught that I am supposed to help anyone in need regardless of their race, gender or anything else of that nature in hopes that someone else would do the same for me. As I was watching the video posted in the blog, my first reaction was “I wonder, as this woman is speaking about everything that Americans have to pay for illegal immigrants, the amount that people in other countries have to pay for Americans.” I realized that American health care is so expensive that we do something to be angry about because there are such huge costs that are not being paid. I then began to read the rest of the blog and realized that I was not the only one thinking these things and I was surprised to see how similarly my opinions related to the blog. Though I understand that there is good reason to be angry about hospital fees not being paid, I also understand that there are times that things like this should be overlooked because it just is not right. When it comes down to it, someone’s life is in jeopardy and that is all that should matter. People should not be concerned with the amount of money it costs or the time it takes to save a life, they should only care that Americans are doing something that they do not have to for someone in need.
I feel that, if I am trying to think as someone who does care about this issue, it is something that I might just learn to deal with. These people can complain as much as they want about this problem and, most likely, will never receive a check for the extra money that they paid on behalf of illegal immigrants. Also, the woman from the video never stated how much this is really affecting taxpayers’ wallets. The amounts of money that she stated are large amounts but when spread out over a nation of taxpayers, it does not seem like it would affect individuals in a big way. I think that the people who spend all of their time whining about this issue need to realize that 1. There is not much that is going to happen any time soon, and 2. There are much bigger things that deserve much more attention in the U.S. today.
My initial reaction after watching the piece was one of concern. This is an issue that must be addressed and the amount of money that is going to the care of illegals is remarkable. And the fact that as a result, we the citizens of this country are paying for the illegal care of many is outrageous. It is seen in the reactions of people in the background of the video as they shake their heads in disbelief and disapproval as well as the man at the end who wonders why these illegals are not prosecuted. So at face value when one is given one side of an argument it is hard to do anything but agree with the side you are presented. But if this class has taught me anything, it is to question and look at things in a new light. Not to take the easy way out and agree but to see both sides of an issue or argument and to put myself in the place of each conflicting side. Are we being hypocrites? What about are citizens that are in other countries and get hurt? Isn’t something like healthcare too important to turn people away from no matter what their legal status is? I think so, I think we need to stop pointing fingers at the illegals, who face it probably don’t have that great of impact on our cost of healthcare comparatively speaking to our citizens. That’s not the issue. The reason this has come to the forefront as an issue is because of the economy. We are suffering and have to find blame to pinpoint it on or to. We must fix our own healthcare system. It is behind compared to other nations. It is surprising to hear the stories of how Americans are treated healthcare wise in other countries. They are never turned away are rarely end up having to pay anything and you don’t hear them making an issue out of all of this. Why do we? It seems to be we are acting selfishly. Perhaps certain hospitals see more illegals then others and it does put a strain on our system and does affect prices. But what is our alternative to turn people away? We don’t do that either but we complain about treating them. I just find this to be disheartening. Do we identify so much with our own country and needs that e cant see the needs of others? This isn’t an issue of American jobs that are being affected by illegal immigrants but one of life. It is just confusing to me, we seem to pick our battles to the wrong issues and point out fingers at the wrong people.
One of the major problems that President Barack Obama issued was the majority of Americans who are uninsured. As of now, there are currently around 45 million people who are uninsured. Under Obama’s proposed plan, every parent is required to have insurance for their children. It is also mandatory that employers offer health insurance to his/her employee. Most small businesses oppose of this because of the cost. However, what happens when an illegal immigrant is given healthcare without any cost. This is one of the major issues that we face today. There are both positive and negative aspects that we must look at. Based on the optimistic side, any patient who is required immediate emergency will get that care from the doctor. With a healthcare system growing rapidly in the U.S., we are equipped with new technology as well as advanced healthcare staff. I feel that it is necessary for every individual regardless of being insured or uninsured, to receive the best care. However, there are also certain consequences in which we must be aware of. While watching the video, the representative for the Florida hospital stated several cases in which illegal immigrants can have an impact towards our taxes. From 2001-2003 a Guatemalen civilian was taken care of, in which the healthcare service spent around $1.5 million. Saying that alone shows how much a hospital has to go through in terms of cost, quality, and access. By spending additional money in his return home, the Guatemalans family felt the hospital showed disrespect and thus they sued them. If illegal immigrants are coming to the U.S for job opportunities and better healthcare, then they must know that there are certain problems they will eventually face. Since the hospital was sued, that means the employees from the hospital was most likely see a reduction in their payroll. I feel that the government should be responsible for this event. If an illegal patient has been shot or needs medical treatment, are we going to say no them and allow them to suffer? It’s the principal of the matter that we must look into. We help one another not to make ourselves feel better but to help out the environment as well. The man from Mexico who has severe brain damage has not received any compensation for his return home. Without any friends or family, this man has nothing to look forward to but only be depressed. In this situation, we have to blame the government. The Florida hospital was in debt $100 million for patient care from the immigrants. The feds were only interested if a crime was committed. If that is so, then we should oppose a law in which immigrants are allowed to receive treatment but after Americans who are either insured or insured. I feel that this is the only way that hospital organizations can look to as a source of management. Every individual will be given care but it is a matter of time and patience until the system is balanced. Our healthcare facilities will continue their role to help out individuals no matter the circumstance.
I think that it is selfish of that Florida hospital to make such a big deal out of illegal immigrants staying at their hospital for care and treatment. Whatever happened to being dedicated to helping people who desperately need health care for the satisfaction of having possibly saved a life? What if these people had come to America for health care that they could not receive in their home country for the particular illness that they have? For one patient to have to stay in their hospital for two years their condition must have been really bad, yet the hospital was focused on shipping the person back to his country as soon as they could. I am sure that if I were to visit a foreign country and had become ill I would be taken care of regardless if I had their form of insurance or not. I am also sure that they won't be so eager to send me back to America.
The major issue in this country concerning illegal immigrants using the medical services pretty much for free is because the health care here is terrible. It is so expensive to cover medical bills without medical insurance but insurance is also expensive anyway so many Americans go without medical insurance and decide to skip most of those doctors appointments for a long time or until necessary. Health insurance is a problem for money with Americans, so when immigrants look at the costs it must be very attractive to them to realize that they can come into the country sick and leave just fine without a dime of their own spent. This obviously irritates many Americans as us taxpayers are technically paying for these illegal immigrants' healthcare when we can't even pay for or themselves to receive healthcare.
I think that a solution to this problem would be to enforce a universal health care system to this country. If health care was a free service to all, American or non-American, there would be no problem with who got what service in which hospital. I had watched the movie “Sicko,” which talks about how terrible American health care is compared to other countries, and many countries have free health care to all. Actually, America is one of the only developed countries that does not have a universal health care system. France and Britain have free health care. Even small countries south of the border have free health care.
I don't think that this is happening because American people feel hatred against illegal immigrants, not in this case. I think that this is only happening because Americans feel like the illegal immigrants are taking all of the benefits from not being citizens of America with health insurance and getting free services out of it, which the taxpayers of America then have to pay for. I can see why this troubles many Americans but I think it is up to the government to solve this so that health care can be fair and free for everyone.
When I first began reading the blog on illegal immigrants stealing our health care, I had a hard time trying to figure out where it was going to lead. I know there are plenty of articles on the issue of illegal immigrants and how they are costing tax payers, but it was hard to believe that Sam was simply writing about this. At first I thought that he was claiming that our anger and outrage towards these situations was unjust. And that, quite frankly, made me angry and outraged. But as I continued to read, I actually relaxed a bit and saw it quite differently. It was very interesting to see the situation flipped. Especially with a first hand experience. The fact that the hospital in Mexico City only asked for a pint of blood, “if he didn’t mind” was unbelievable to me. They could have taken advantage of the fact that there was a “rich American” whom they had just given service to, but they chose not to. It was very beneficial to look at the opposite way. I have never had extremely strong feelings on the illegal immigrant situation, so it is hard to retaliate. But I do believe that there are differences in the two opposing situations. For one thing, Sam was not an illegal immigrant. He was not living in Mexico City, and he probably went through the regulation stop when going to Mexico. Another difference, was the willingness to help Sam. And while this is still a flaw, I am completely aware, the American hospital shown in the you tube video spent huge amount of money trying to get the illegal immigrant out of the United States. It is all a matter of ethnocentrism I suppose. And since I am technically on the “side” of one of the two countries in comparison here, my view in automatically bias. But I feel as though feelings of immigrants, illegal or not, in the United States is different than those in Mexico. I think there are many more people coming to the United States from Mexico rather than going to Mexico from the United States. We often see them as taking under-paying jobs illegally, from citizen who could have those jobs. The citizens would be paid the minimum wage, and also have to pay taxes to support the country, rather than being paid lower salaries under the table. And again the I have absolutely no idea how the people in Mexico portray Americans coming to their country, so I can not speak on their side. This is my ethnocentric view. Although Sam agreed that these stories were not put into their proper context, and tried to put them in to a greater, broader context, I still do not believe that the spectrum is wide enough. If his personal experience is something to base our opinions on, then what would stop all of the people in the United States who do not have health care, from just traveling down to Mexico and giving a pint of blood to receive the treatment. I think there is much more to this.
I agree one hundred percent with Dr. Richards. These issues need to be kept in their proper context. Moreover, this is a battle that one cannot simply solve with a simple answer. This is a moral battle between what is wholly correct and what is better for our country. I apologize for seeming pessimistic, but this battle will never be won. As long as doctors take an oath to never refuse healthcare, every individual in need will be helped. This will be done regardless of citizenship.
I would like to play devil’s advocate for a moment. I would like to think that many of the Americans living abroad have citizenship or even dual citizenship in these foreign countries. It is not always the case that Americans are illegal citizens elsewhere. I don’t believe that the issue at hand is the amount of actual Americans living abroad and their healthcare usage, but the amount of illegal immigrant- Americans living elsewhere. I would actually like to know what the estimated numbers are of these individuals. In some form or another, these Americans are probably contributing to that country by paying taxes or holding legitimate jobs. There is a distinct difference between being a documented immigrant and being illegal and undocumented. I don’t think that people will find faults with individuals who are documented any may eventually be citizens of the United States.
It is unfortunate that the United States has such inflated health care costs, which in turn makes the bill of an illegal immigrant enormous. In the case of Dr. Richards’ Mexican performed appendectomy, the institution accepted a donation of blood. But in the United States a donation of blood does not simply satisfy a hospital bill. Of course we all know that. But the point of the matter is, countries around the world have different values. And the United States highly values the dollar. Also we must remember that the issue the woman was addressing was the length of stay and the amount of the bill incurred by the patient. The fact is that the Guatemalan patient was in the hospital from some point in 2001-2003 and immigration was contacted with no response. I believe that if an American was living illegally abroad and their hospital bill had gotten out of hand, the hospital may ask for the American to leave as well. More certainly they would not keep the individual in the hospital for that amount of time knowing that the bill would never be satisfied.
I understand that we must take a worldly thought on the situation and take ourselves out of the equation, but I believe the situation would be the same elsewhere. Simple surgeries do not equate to years upon years in a hospital.
Well this is quite a tough situation; basically it comes strictly down to a moral issue. Now let me discuss the video first. Although he wasn’t a legal resident of the state of Florida I do believe the man deserved some care. Now first of all to be in the hospital for 2 years you must be awfully sick, like almost terminally ill. Secondly American health care policies are so ridiculously overpriced that 1.5 million dollars doesn’t even seem a much of surprise especially for 2 years, let’s take the numbers pretty literally here, so there are 365 days in a year and he was in the hospital for 2 years 365*2= 730 days spent in jail. 1.5 + 30,000(30,000 dollars to send him back to Guatemala) + 250,000 dollars in legal fees come to a grand total of 1,780,000 dollars. So if you divide 1,780,000 by 730 you get 2438.35 dollars a day which is not awful considering it cost 20$ dollars for a bag of ice. Now think of all the things that go into the man’s healthcare; his room charges, nurse care, medicines, procedures, and daily meals. Now you and I both know 2438.35 is not equal to care he receives per day if you exclude the procedures, and I doubt he had enough to justify that number. This just proves how much we the American health care rates are inflated. Now in the simple case of the regular individual who has insurance and can pay only a small percentage of that 2438.35; this is of really no concern to the hospital. But right when the hospital get’s that one patient, and illegal immigrant in this case; one who can’t afford the payment they see just how ridiculous health care prices are now a days. Let’s take this even a little bit further. Like Mr. Richards mentioned since the Immigrant is unable to pay the bills a lot of the taxpayers must take on the bill. In the state of Florida there are 17,019,068 residents. Assuming everyone in the state of Florida is taxpaying citizen if you take 1,780,000 divided by the number of residents in Florida you get the number .104. So if the tax payers of Florida chipped in to take care of this man’s cost of medical care it would equate to 10 cents give or take a few cents. Now is 10 cents worth a man’s life; it my case no it isn’t. Although I have never been in a foreign hospital I’m sure they are somewhat hospitable, as mentioned in Mr. Richards short anecdote, he was done a favor by the Mexican government and all he was asked to repay was a pint of blood, so I think if they can do a favor for some of our citizens then we can for some of theirs, legal or not they are still human. I’m sure the Mexican economy needs those American dollars much more than us (even though were struggling now there economy is a much worse situation). Though other aspects come into play with the situation looking at the pure money aspect of it, I think it equates to American greed in the healthcare industry, but that’s just my two cents.
The fact that everyday illegal immigrants are racking up the hospital bills forcing Americans to get the tab is insane and disgusting. But what is worse than that is the fact that Hospitals cannot get help from officials of our country or the homeland of these patients. I don’t know about you but if a hospital called the police about an illegal immigrant I expect them to respond and handle the situation. If we really want to start to crack down on illegal immigration we have to attack it from all angles, not just by the borders. It just seems that no one cares that these illegal immigrants are using all of our health care dollars. On the other hand I am not saying that hospitals should turn these patients away, what I am saying is that their home country should be responsible and that American officials should do something about it. I also understand that there are other countries that pick up the tab for our expenses. But are they years and years of hospital costs? Are there millions and millions of dollars on stake here? I highly doubt it. With minor injuries it is less of a hassle to go through the process I suppose. However, I believe every American citizen and person for that matter should be responsible for his or her own costs. If Americans rack up costs as much as millions in other countries I doubt that that country just picks up the tab willingly. What boggles my mind is where is the immigration bureau on all of this? I mean are they really willing to just let this slip by? Why hasn’t any American organization stepped in? This is our money we are talking about. I mean aren’t there a lot of Americans angry with the California woman having eight babies when she already has six because she is on welfare? I am pretty sure a lot of people are upset that they have to pay for these babies and the health care bills they racked up. I mean this is the same thing, yet for some reason the illegal immigrants just continue to slip by. It is clearly the same issue that still has people angry, yet the illegal immigrant issue has just gone “unnoticed” by the American public. If we really want to put a stop to illegal immigration we have to confront it on all levels and we cant just let this slip by. By letting this continually letting this go we are setting the message that we only half care about illegal immigration. And this is the worst part of illegal immigration, these aren’t aliens helping on fields and doing the jobs Americans don’t want. These are the people sucking up our money millions at a time.
Those Undocumented Thieves?
After watching the video, I think that I agree with the speaker for the hospital. The United States of America should not have to pay millions of dollars in health care costs to cover illegal immigrants. American people do pay taxes in order to cover health care costs for other citizens, not for people who come to our country smuggled in by bus or boat looking for labor. If they are lucky enough to find a job and earn money, they will not even spend it within the nation’s limits and will instead send it back to their country of origin where their family lives to try to bring their family into our country to repeat the process over. This will only entice more illegal immigrants into America. Our health care system is not even that good, but when it is served for free, patients have no complaints.
I do understand that other countries have a different health care system set up, so that their costs of health care for citizens are not as high, relying instead on the government to back the bills. These systems are much better than what we face in our country today, with many people looking at debts of six figures just to keep their loved ones alive. Europe’s health care system has been widely praised for its efficiency to help its patients. It would be best if other countries modeled their system after those of Europe, not of the Americans’.
Maybe blood is more scarce in Mexico than it is in America. Many efforts are taken in America to persuade people to donate blood, although there is almost always a shortage. Everyone knows that people cannot afford a million dollar health care bill for their hospital stay, which is why it is easier for the American hospital system to send refugees back home rather than collect the debt. However, I do not think the cost of the airfare should fall on the hospital. Homeland security and immigration should be concerned with illegal immigrants, not just those who are criminal immigrants. This thirty-thousand dollar trip to a mother country belongs to these units of government. The hospital has done enough to locate these immigrants and service them without ever expecting a penny in return. Our hospitals are pay-at-will, although they expect payment in some form. Our “free” hospitals cost American citizens at least thousands of dollars in taxes each year. The cost of doctors, nurses and medicine cannot be covered by a pint of blood as is so in Mexico City.
I think the best system to treat immigrants, the legal ones only because I do not condone any illegal immigration, would be to check with their country of origin to see if they are covered under that country’s system. For those that come from a country where medical costs are covered by the government, America should not hesitate to treat those patients. Citizens that do not make any kind of payment towards health care in their country of origin should not be covered in a migrant country.
In response to “Those Undocumented Thieves”, I am upset that this is happening anywhere in the world. I understand that when you go to another country, things happen, people get hurt, and they have to treat you. But for some reason, I had the impression you were billed for this regardless of where you are in the world. Maybe other countries have different ideas of a payment, but I really thought you had to pay for it. However, in many cases these people are just visiting the country when something happens. They have legally bought a passport, paid for the flight themselves, and are spending their own hard earned money when they get there. My concern is the illegal aliens in our country that didn’t pay to get here, illegally came into our country, and are causing problems for our government and towards our well being. These people shouldn’t be here and they are causing of thousands or maybe millions of dollars. This outrages me. Yet when we try and send them back to their country WITH OUR MONEY they can’t go because they didn’t leave properly. They aren’t wanted back in our country. I really doubt that this is the case for the Americans that left our country. I mean maybe they didn’t like America and left the country for good, but if that is the case why wouldn’t they have health insurance where they are living now if they had it here? However, what outrages me the most is that people that have and pay and work for their health insurance in America that truly need it still don’t get the coverage they need. They are forced to pay for thousands of dollars worth of their treatment. Yet there are people that shouldn’t be in our country and are getting this for free? This isn’t fair at all. I have personally dealt with this because my mom has Parkinson’s and our family has spent a ridiculous amount of money on treatment for her to be functional right now. We’re the one that are supposed to be reaping the benefits of this health care because WE ARE PAYING FOR IT. Therefore, I think we DESERVE IT. These illegal immigrants come over to this country as poor as could be and get the health care that we pay for and never pay anything and don’t attempt to conform to our society and try and get a good job or try to be educated or try to become a citizen or anything for that matter. They probably couldn’t get treatment in their own country. In my eyes they are worthless and shouldn’t be in our country because they are taking away treatment that American citizens deserve. I am outraged about this.
My immediate first impression of this blog after watching the video and listening to the girl talk about money spent on “illegal immigrants” was that I was mad that this was happening. Why do we, citizens of this country, pay so much for health insurance and hospital stays and all of that stuff while “illegal immigrants,” people not supposed to be here, do not have to pay anything? It just does not really seem fair to me at all. I was kind of shocked by this and that it was even happening. Who knew? I sure did not.
But, as I read on and saw the point that Sam went on to make about Americans living in other countries that do the exact same thing it kind of evened out for me and seemed somewhat reasonable (to some extent). I mean I am still upset that it is happening and that our health insurance is inflated, but at the same time I would hope that if it were me in another country I would not just be left to die.
It is a shame to think that this happens and there are so many people throughout our country that are without any health insurance and so when something does happen to them (God forbid) they must pay astrologically large amounts. The reason these people do not have health insurance in the first place is because they cannot afford it and so they end up with even more bills because they do not have it, but need the care. It all seems so messed up to me.
I am not exactly sure I agree that these people should not be paying the bills for what our hospitals and what have you are doing for them. The same thing goes for those Americans who are living abroad. I think that they should be paying for their bills over there too. It is not really fair to the citizens of the countries to make up for the slack of these people. It is not fair that in my own country I am penalized for these acts of others and forced to pay such high prices just to get the service I have every right to receive.
So, what does that entail for the hospitals? Can they turn down services for these people dying? No, they can’t. Who knows what the right answer is. It is hard to say in this situation, but I really think that something does need to be done so that we can benefit from what we truly deserve (especially in these hard times). We must help each other, but, also, help ourselves.
Health Care is a very hard subject and I sure am glad I am not the person trying to figure out the best solution. I give credit to them and hope that they can find a way to help everyone benefit from the system.
Alright. So here it is. Agreeing with Sam’s words on our first day of class, I’m MUCH more concerned with the FACT that I’m dying than, well, essentially anything else. As long as we humans are afraid to come to terms with our imminent deaths and celebrate our lives, there will ALWAYS be “issues” that are just so damn serious. Someone will ALWAYS be freaking out about something. Although most would deny it, I think the idea of everything being cool and calm and settled freaks the hell out of most people. If all of the “problems” *POOF* (or if you want to get real, if we shift our perspectives and realize that our problems aren’t for the most part actually problems) disappeared, I think most humans would fear that their own lightness combined with the utter lack of strings would send them floating into outer space. Or plummeting into some abyss. I see strings and weights forming all day, every day; the girl crying on her phone about how “he” dumped her for someone else, or the boy freaking out about his grades. It makes it difficult to remain cool and calm when so many people always seems to be in such a tizzy.
Now, in all fairness, I’ve never paid my own healthcare bill, so some of you might be silently cursing me out. Either way, saying something like “in this time of economic trouble, we simply can’t afford it [seeing ‘our’ dollars go to ‘them’]” refuses to sit with me. What does “can’t afford it” really mean? Does it mean that we can’t pay for the exorbitant amounts of hot water and flat screen TV’s that we’ve grown so accustomed to? This all goes back to Sam’s lecture on equality, on the whole “King of the Mountain” idea. But more than that, it’s the “us and “them” thing that I have the biggest problem with.
Coming from an upper middle class family, I see the benefits of being born on top of the mountain, so to speak. And it just doesn’t seem fair. When people come to the US, it is primarily in the pursuit of economic prosperity Unfortunately, the structure that our economic system has taken is unkind to those starting at the bottom.
Okay, back on track. Firstly, this 1.5 million that the hospital exec mentioned…where did that number come from? Is that the number that the hospital decided to designate to the amount of treatment the illegal immigrant received? If so, what was the actual cost? 1.5 just seems outrageous. Secondly, I understand that I sound like some crazy hippie, but I wish that we didn’t live in a world with so much damn division. A sick being is a sick being. We all need help sometimes. There is no difference between the Mexican 20-something and the middle ages white male who walk into an ER and need help (not to their mothers and brothers, of course). Help is help! Geez. And so what about the money. What’s all this focus on money. Again, I realize the potential that I’m being scoffed at (being that I’ve never paid my own medical bills), but I really stand behind my words. I’d sooner forego one of the countless luxuries (and by luxuries, I mean things like endless hot water, a few pairs of shoes, more than one sweatshirt, my cell phone, etc) I have if doing so meant that I would be helping someone. Am I the only “crazy” one here?
Sam and others.
This is a very complex issue to undertake for anyone from the president to the hospital administrator.
But one of the factors that receives almost no attention on any of piles of journalistic reports about our health care problems is in essence the way in which we run said system.
I know that I live in the US, where a systemic fear of so-called socialist theory and application exists unchecked and encouraged by thinkers and politicians from all sides of the spectrum. Therefore I expect a large number of human services to be structured as for-profit businesses. Services like transportation, freight and mail, food services, manufactured goods, etc., all have a place in the for-profit business. (By the by, look hard enough and you'll find some sort of government subsidy that in a sense means you and I paid twice for said services)
But has anyone asked themselves if something so critical and life-saving like health care should be run for a profit? I urge all to take a gander (if you are even allowed) at the compensation structure at our hospitals and clinics. Excluding medical staff (doctors, nurses, etc), should other hospital administrators, staff be compensated at the levels in which they do? Moreover, how many private coffers are filled to the brim every year by health care payments from private insurance providers, our federal government and state government? (Sure, medicaid and medicare payments are less than private insurance payments. But that's money that they receive much faster than the 3 months that HMO's often take to post their payments)
See, I think that we could take a huge step backwards and analyze how we arrived at this juncture where a bag of ice costs a patient $20 and the medical costs of an undocumented person can add up to a million dollars.
I'm a firm believer that since our nation gladly subsidizes services such as energy, education, banks and just about everything as of recently, why can't we find a way to provide folks with health care at a reasonable price? Is there too much money to be made off the ailments and injuries of human beings to let go of the millions of cash that flows through that system? Who really stands to gain from the inflated prices of health in our nation?
I think that often, folks feel like scrutinizing the for-profit nature of the health care business (yes, it's a business folks) is to question the compensations of M.D.'s who often pay incredible amounts for malpractice insurance and who are also on the hook for thousands of dollars for student loans for medical school. While we can point to plenty who got into the business to make money, by enlarge, doctors are people who want to help others. In other words, folks often feel like doctors should earn what they earn because of what they paid for school, the professional insurance they must carry (since the numbers show they are likely to face a number of malpractice suits). But I don't think that they are the ones that are overpaid, neither are the nurses. It's the other parts of the system that are too closely structured like a business.
If I could have it my way, health care would be universally free to all who desire it. That way folks will not shy away from yearly checkups (which should really be twice a year), breast exams, prostate exams, eye exams, hearing exams, etc. The focus would shift from reaction to symptoms and hospitalization (since by then, folks are worse off and need more health care services, hence more money) to prevention where ailments can be managed and detected early. Why is it that our vehicles get more checks than human beings do? Doesn't make sense to me that cars, which are much cheaper than the priceless cost of better health get more attention from us than our own bodies.
I think that the most important of human services in our society should not be a for-profit business. If we ever look to lessen the burden of health care costs to taxpayers, we should start here and then concern ourselves with issues like unpaid bills generated by undocumented immigrants.
I think it was extremely interesting thinking about the issue of healthcare from the completely different perspective that was put forth in the blog. I NEVER would have thought about how there are many people in the United States living in other countries getting free health care. However, I by no means think it is ok what the illegal foreign immigrants from the video are doing.
Health care is a topic of a lot of controversy in the United States. I am a little bit torn on exactly what I feel should be done about health care in the united states especially because I am not extremely knowledgeable on all of health cares issues. However, One thing that makes me so angry about this story is how these people are abusing the system and getting completely free health care when there are people in the United States who don’t even have any health care or are struggling to pay for health care. My mom for example broke her neck and back years ago and now has had so many issues. Our insurance would not cover my mother so my dad had to pay an extra thousand dollars a month on another plan to get my mother paid for by health insurance on top of what he was paying for the rest of our family. I think this is absolutely ridiculous, especially because many people in the United States deal with this issue but cannot afford to pay for the second health insurance so there are people without insurance. I think that people that are ILLEGALLY in the united state should not be getting free health care services when residents of the United States are expected to pay exorbitant prices which many people cant afford to do which leaves them without health insurance.
However, on the other side of the issue I agree with the girl’s response that said it is “inhumane” to turn away someone at a hospital. I think if someone that was an illegal immigrant came into a hospital dying it would be wrong to not provide him or her with care. To be honest not providing care is somewhat like murder. However, I don’t think that our tax dollars should go towards paying for someone who is illegally here if everyone in the United States is not lucky enough to have health care.
Although, I am partially torn on the issue, I cant think of a simple solution partially because I don’t know all that much about the system and what can be done and partially because there is no simple solution in my mind. I feel that if there was this basic solution changes to the health care system in the United States would have be made along time ago. However, one thing is certain something needs to be done because it is inhumane to turn these illegal immigrants away but it is not fair that our tax dollars are paying for these immigrants and people here in the united states are not receiving adequate health care!
The issue of healthcare concerns me greatly. Not only are we living in a horrible economic time, but we also have millions of people who do not have access to quality health care in their own country. So what do we do about it? Spend a couple billion dollars for one immigrant to stay in a United States hospital for 2 years! It is my impression that immigrants are taking advantage of an excellent health care system in America. I am not saying that they should be denied emergency health care, but there should be a system in which they have to pay their expenses in some manner. For instance, Sam gave the example of having to donate a bag of blood for his appendix surgery. Although this would not be acceptable payment in the U.S., it was obviously valuable to the people in Mexico City. Perhaps we should institute a national health insurance policy in which people who travel a lot have insurance that would cover their expenses in the U.S. or Nicaragua, for instance. If health care is less expensive in Nicaragua, so be it, but the insurance company can pay what it due for their client.
I have no problem with immigrants coming to this country in a legal manner, or at least trying to abide by the legal policies. Let’s say an immigrant comes to America planning to make a future and work very hard. He should be entitled to healthcare, but he should have to pay for it like every other American would. Why should taxpayers be paying for the health care of immigrants? It just makes no sense to me.
Sam also highlighted that there are many people from the United States living in other countries and reaping the benefits of the health care there. I have two comments. First, the health care in many other countries is no match for the health care in the United States. Second, I cannot fathom that these people are costing the health care systems in other countries nearly as much as immigrants to the U.S. are costing. Also, how many people travel to other countries and need highly advanced medical procedures done. Although it happened to Sam, I would say he is the exception, and this does not routinely happen during the time someone is taking an extended visit in another country. Also, I completely agree that the U.S. charges ridiculous amounts for health care. $20 for some ice is absurd. But the Americans are paying these costs, so immigrants should have to as well.
As I said before, no one should be denied healthcare in either the United States or any other country. There is a correct way to approach the issue, though. Insurance companies should be open to the idea of international service. Don’t sell phones offer special plans for those who travel often? Insurance can be a matter of life or death, unlike cell phones. Therefore, it is time for everyone to pay up.
The topic of health insurance is a pretty tricky and controversial topic and I don’t know if there is a right or wrong answer to the video shown. I don’t know everything about health insurance, so maybe that explains my lack of anger in regards to the video. I’m pretty lucky considering I’ve always had health insurance and never had to worry about paying for it. But as my graduation date nears, I am starting to worry about where my health insurance will come from – because I will no longer be covered by my parent’s health insurance. And that makes me feel pressured to get a job! But that’s a whole different story.
Someone commented that these illegal immigrants shown in the video were “abusing” the system. I disagree; I don’t think that anyone with severe brain damage thought to “abuse” the system – they simply needed help! It would be a different story if these patients were short-term who then left the hospital without paying a sum. So maybe since I’ve everyone I know has been covered by good health insurance, I am not as angry.
As for Sam’s story, how incredible! Although not surprising. I have traveled quite a bit and have noticed that the way of life in many countries is so unbelievably different than the way of life for many Americans. For the Mexican doctors to ask for a pint of blood in return for such a major operation doesn’t really surprise me at all. I don’t know what it is about Americans, but I feel like there is always some sort of bitterness attached to things like this – like Americans always feel as if people owe them something. It’s a really selfish mentality actually. Maybe it’s the way we’ve been brought up? I don’t really know, but I’ve noticed this attitude a lot when I talk to people concerning complex issues like that of health insurance.
Sam also mentions the amount of Americans who are living abroad and their stories regarding hospital treatment. It seems like many people did not know or think about the other side to this issue (from the responses.) It is true though, what Sam said. And even just being an American, I think that a lot of times you will get first priority or special treatment – just because you are an American. Think about it.
Of course what happens in this country (and what happened in the video) is not the ideal situation, but it happens! People get sick and they need treatment. Maybe instead of getting upset at these illegal immigrants taking up hospital space, we should be more productive and let our government know our concerns. Maybe that would be more helpful.
I understand to a certain degree that health care has been an issue for millions of Americans throughout the recent years, but to be honest, I don’t think I truly understand the problem simply because I have been fortunate enough not to need special health care. That being said, I think it’s pretty clear that I am slightly ignorant on the subject. After watching that video though, I can be empathetic towards those who have struggled with health care and understand where they might feel enraged by the fact that they are faced with the dread of unpaid medical bills, and foreigners can seemingly come into this country, use our medical services and get off scotch free. However, even though I am a bit ignorant on the subject, it seems all too easy to jump to that place of anger and resentment. Although I think that it is important to acknowledge those possible immediate feelings of anger, it is also equally important to allow those feelings to dissipate by opening up to alternate perspectives, like the one that Sam suggested, and not becoming attached to those negative feelings.
Again, although I have not personally been faced with medical issues abroad, I can only imagine what people of other countries might be saying about American citizens guilty of the very same act. For example, the citizens of France (or any other country for that matter) may be just as enraged by the fact that American tourists waltz into their country, sip a little too much champagne and end up breaking bones falling down the Eiffel Tower, only to receive the very best French medical care, and return to the United States, happy, healthy and healed with the only dent in their wallet coming from a stroll down the Champs de’leise. Now Americans who, like me, have never been placed in such a situation as to be found guilty of this, may even feel angry after reading what I just said. After all, it wouldn’t be fair to use those particular individuals who do end up taking advantage of free foreign health care as representatives for the United States. I understand all of that, but my point is that the issue being brought up by the YouTube video can be related to people all over the world. While other countries may not be struggling with the same health care issues, that I don’t know either, Americans are certainly not the only victims. I am in no way discounting anyone’s feelings that they might have over this video by writing this response. Go ahead and feel whatever emotions might come up for you. All I am saying is, take a breath and see if you can open your eyes to a different perspective.
I don’t really know what to say with this blog. I see both sides of the argument very reasonable. As an American, I think it is unfair that illegal immigrants can come into our country and get medical treatment and not pay. I think that is outrageous, especially because I am an example of an American citizen without health insurance. I can’t even go to the school nurse to see if I have strep throat without paying a good amount of money. A lot of this narrows down to the fight against illegal immigrants. We have so many in the U.S. and they are using American health services for free. That is really not fair to Americans, when they shouldn’t be here in the first place. I do think that health care providers need to figure something out so that Americans have better health care. I think that if this happened, then we wouldn’t worry so much if an illegal immigrant was taken care of. As an American, I also see the point that if someone, anyone is hurt, we have a moral duty to help them, whether they have the money or not. It’s not right to say “O sorry, you can’t afford the surgery, so you’re not getting it.” If I worked for a hospital, I wouldn’t even question it; I would do what I could to help. However, I would not allow that person to go back to their country immediately following without any agreement of payment. If that illegal immigrant is living in the United States, she should be treated just like someone here without medical insurance would be treated. They should not be able to slip through the system, especially when they are illegal in the first place. I understand that United States citizens are around the world, but one, don’t they have documents? It’s not like they sneak across the border. I would expect that a United States citizen were living in another country, they would be treated just like a citizen of that country. If someone were on vacation I think is another story; it all gets complicated. If a Mexican resident is in the U.S. on vacation, they should be treated of course, but something should be figured out between them and Mexican health care providers and the U.S. should act on how it would be in their country. Just like if an American was on vacation and needed medical attention, the hospital taking care of them would contact U.S. health care providers and figure something out before sending that person home. Of course there are so many different angles to look at the situation with and so many different arguments one could make, it’s hard to stay on one side.
Healthcare coverage is a huge problem in the United States. This is one of the many issues President Obama is facing, due to the high inflation rates and the lack of coverage from employers. So dealing with this type of problem, such as the Medicare of illegal immigrants, is a difficult task. I also did not realize that so many U.S. citizens live in a foreign country. And when it comes to their medical care, it is somehow covered by that country and other times it’s not. I understand that Medicare is not very “dollar-friendly” but when a sick person (illegal) comes to the hospital and needs assistance, it would not be fair to turn them away. We, meaning the United States, focus too much on the dollar! Whatever happened to the fact that they are still human beings, just like each one of us. As Sam had stated in the article, when he was in the hospital and the Mexicans had asked him for blood, instead of money, they found an alternative. Could the U.S. use this motive instead of sending sick people back to their country, where they probably are going to end up dying there? It’s basically like have a conscience, which seems like the U.S. doesn’t have much of these days. I do believe that the U.S. can come up with some type of alternative, instead of asking an illegal immigrant for millions of dollars (which they most likely would not be able to afford). For example, when my cousin had traveled to Brazil for vacation, she became very ill. Therefore, she went to the nearest hospital. The doctors prescribed medication for her and did not charge her for the hospital visit. Now I am not sure if that was from the kindness of his heart or because the medication was expensive. But I do believe that finding an alternative to paying a hospital bill, such as giving blood, would be beneficial.
Also, illegal immigration has been a problem for the United States. However, the U.S. does not mind when they are working and paying their taxes. I am pretty sure the government is o.k. with that. I just don’t understand why there is a huge problem if they are generating income for the U.S., but can be turned away from the hospital. So basically they can live here but can’t get sick. We need to start thinking about our priorities as a country. And I think this is why we are having money issues now. Now I am not saying the U.S. citizens should get excited about paying for the illegal immigrants medical bills, but we do need to have a heart, when it comes down to helping people in need.
I was pretty shocked by this video because of many reasons. I guess first off I never really thought about what happens to illegal immigrants in terms of how they get health care. Second, before I even watched the video I thought it was going to be about some small hospital denying access to these undocumented immigrants. Then after watching the video I was kind of pissed because I know that health care is a big issue in America and that many Americans are in debt because of health care. Finally, after reading the comments made by Sam I tried to see the issue from both sides.
I think everything it relative to the society and economic system of a country. It’s definitely not fair that this happening in either the U.S. or in other foreign countries, and there is not really a way to measure what would be a greater total cost, the U.S. or somewhere else. I also think there is a big difference between visitors and immigrants, specifically illegal immigrants. Visitors are simply just visiting a country whereas these illegal immigrants usually have plans to stay and live there illegally. I understand there are many reasons for these illegal immigrants coming to America but they don’t have to do it illegally. Also, I think a good thing to think about is what would be the right thing to do? Are doctors and nurses just supposed to let these illegal immigrants who are sick and need help simply just die? I think most people would agree that some type of help should be made available, but these U.S. hospitals should not being helping to the extent that some do. Millions and billions of dollars may be exaggerated but regardless it is obviously that health care in America is expensive and to have people no having to pay for it is pretty absurd and unfair. I think some type of plan needs to be taken into effect where certain measures are taking to ensure that these hospitals will be reimbursed in some way. Also, I do think it is right that they are sent back to your home country because they are illegal, but that doesn’t mean that the U.S. needs to pay for their flight home.
On the other side of the spectrum is us. When we visit other countries, we expect to be able to go to a hospital and get the services needed if something were to happen to us. Now this is where I think there is a difference between visiting somewhere and actually having plans on living there for a long amount of time. Overall, I think it essential for the U.S. to form a type of agreement with other countries so that this controversial issue can be settled or at the least given some thought from the governments’ of both countries.
This article about illegal immigrants using health care in the United States is not too surprising but it is still a little unsettling. Obviously there are illegal immigrants throughout our country, usually doing jobs that most Americans would not want. I do not know much about immigration to the Unites States, so I am ignorant to the required fees and documents, and therefore do not fully understand why foreigners do not try to become citizens first. However, if immigration is cost issue then I can understand why there are illegal immigrants.
I strongly believe that hospitals need to serve all people whether they are legal citizens or not. Just like how hospitals should help people without insurance and without money to cover their medical costs. Yes it bothers me that because of these people my family’s health insurance costs may be higher than we would like but it would not be justifiable to just let someone die because they lacked certain requirements such as insurance or a green card. Also, sometimes people with medical insurance do not have enough coverage to pay for the costs associated with some health issues, such as cancer. But I think that people should not have to worry about costs when a traumatic health problem arises as long as our country continues to provide free medical care to illegal citizens. Listening to some of the families’ stories at thon this past weekend makes this medical scam seem terrible. There were families sharing how they didn’t know how they would have helped pay for their child to get better, people most likely with some form of healthcare insurance, and on the other hand there are people getting medical help at no charge. That is wrong.
The article mentions that when Americans are foreigners in another country they receive medical care at no cost sometimes. But I think until I witness that first hand it is a little bit difficult to believe. When I was away on vacation once in Mexico and my friend had an ear infection, she paid quite a bit for help and medicine. I agree that other countries are not going to set back and let people die. But I do wonder why they don’t just bill us or whoever. Why is no one charging for health services? If an illegal immigrant goes to the food store because they are starving, they are not going to get free food.
Overall, I think this article will upset me more when I am out of college and my parents are not longer paying for my health insurance. I’m sure that then when prices go up I will be bothered but I’ll try to keep in mind that other countries are doing the same. This issue reminds me of the taxes that everyone pays for public education. We all pay no matter if we have kids in school or if we ever went to public schools ourselves.
Health Care is a huge problem here in the United States. It is awful to see all these families who can not even afford to take their children to the doctors when they are sick. Health care prices have gone up drastically in the last few years and I think it is only going to get worse. After watching that video, it is kind of disturbing to hear how much money is going towards illegal immigrants in our country. It is upsetting to know that American citizens are getting slammed with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills yet illegal immigrants with no paper work or anything are getting off the hook. However, with that said, we do live in a country where they will not turn anyone away, which is awesome. I mean really, who could turn away a dying man. I know that especially now a days since we are in a recession people who would see this video would getting angry that they are paying for illegal immigrants but Sam brought up a great point that I honestly did not even think about. I never thought about the Americans in other countries who are being provided with health care. Americans in other countries and illegal immigrants in the United States, I think that is pretty much even. I think that hospital in Florida and other Americans are just trying to find someone to blame for our horrible economy and just blame the illegal immigrants, which is very selfish and cruel.
The lady that was talking in this video needs to realize both sides to this story. She should do some research on Americans in other countries, just like Sam mentioned. I always hear of people moving to Canada for health care or even ordering medicine online from Canada because it is so much cheaper.
When it comes down to it, I just think Americans are really irritated because health care is so expensive here and knowing that immigrants come here, get the help and leave without paying upsets them. I had surgery a few years ago to remove my gal bladder and even with my family having pretty good health insurance we still had to pay quite a few for the co pay.
In order to some what solve this problem, I think health care in the United States should be cheaper so everyone could afford it. I mean it you have millions of people in the United States who do not have health care; don’t you think something is wrong? I think the government and others should be more concerned about getting Americans health care rather than complaining about illegal immigrants. Over priced health care is the big problem here, not illegal immigrants.
I find the article on undocumented aliens racking up a high medical bills very interesting. First off, illegal aliens are changing the face of America. But lets look back 150 years. Everyone pouring into America, even from Europe, was an immigrant. And most of them were poor. They could not afford to pay doctors, but no one cared, they did it anyway. One of the problems of America now is that we have technology and machines that many countries do not. For example, it costs 1500 for an MRI, and many insurance companies don’t pay for it (I had to pay for my own, well my parents did anyhow). The point is, doctors don’t think about this stuff. If someone needs to get an MRI, they just put him or her in an MRI. Doctors don’t ask if you can cover the cost, because they know that legally they can make you pay for it eventually. That’s where the illegal aliens come in. According to our government, they don’t exist here. Well they exist, but they cannot be forced to pay for something like an average American citizen can. So going back to technology. We have the best technology in the world, which also means it is the most expensive. The fact that we have it, we use it. So we are so used to doing everything with these super expensive machines, that we always use the machines, because they give the patient the best chance at life. If someone in rural Mexico, which is probably where the brain dead man was from, got so hurt his brain died, he would be dead, end of story. They would not have the technology to keep him alive. But take him to any big city hospital in the Sates, and probably Mexico, and he would live for 20-40 years after being brain dead. We have the best doctors and technology, and we are paying for it now. Healthcare is expensive, and these illegal aliens are not helping. With that being said it is not there fault. I think we should have a national health care plan. Hospitals are designed to save people. Anyone who comes to a hospital will be saved, no matter if they can afford it or not. That is not the illegal aliens fault; that is our own fault. We need to fix our health system here, to help out everyone, citizen or non. Everyone deserves to live. What I don’t understand is how we are seen as the best country, and yet the countries around us, who we look down upon, like Canada, Mexico, and England, all have government health care. And that seems to work. I don’t understand why we don’t follow in their footsteps. Governments are obviously capable of running health care systems, and since everyone thinks ours is terrible, why don’t we switch it up. The other problem with America is that in Mexico if someone dies from a lung surgery, the family thanks the doctor for doing everything they could. In the United States the family sues the doctor up the ass for not doing enough. That is definitely not helping our health care problems.
I am actually NOT outraged that this could happen. However, I am also a health care major and I know better. I understand the economics and behind it. Sure, hospitals are losing a lot of money because of foreigners, but I assure you, they lose more from uninsured Americans and managed care contracts. Everyone is quick to forget the true thieves in health care: the insurance industry. They are the ones who are quick to deny someone for ANY reason possible. There have been situations such as one women who was denied her surgical care because the insurance company dropped her coverage as a result of her not informing them on preexisting conditions on her application. What was this condition? A yeast infection. Excuse me, but I am calling bullshit.
I agree with Sam on every level. Americans go over to foreign countries and expect to be taken care of as well. They pay for us when we are over there and lacking health care coverage! Why should it be any different over here? Not to mention, Americans who get help in foreign countries don’t complain. The tax-payers there do not complain NEARLY as much as we do. It never ceases to amuse me how Americans can be such hypocrites.
Do not get me wrong. I know I may sound anti-American right now. I am not. I love my country. I just think Americans are whiney. We need to just be quiet and realize that we have a life much better than others. The health care system is in trouble, but it is not because of foreigners. Why must it always be someone else? Why can we not take responsibility for our own actions? Our overuse of the system. It is not just the uninsured Americans. Those with insurance rush to the doctor or emergency room for the SMALLEST things. Maybe stop abusing the system and costs will go down.
Our corrupt political system does not help either. Politicians need to stop thinking they know what is best for health care. Health care is business, yes, but it is an entirely different monster than your typical business. Reimbursement, billing, customer satisfaction, and economics are different. You do not always get paid, and if you do, it is almost never at the set charge.
The fact that this video clip takes place at some kind of political meeting is what outrages me. As I stated before, politicians know nothing about health care and should stay out of it. Also, the majorities of administrators in hospitals are business majors and are clueless to the health care system. Their schooling and mentality is not in the right place. Ultimately, Americans will still feel as if foreigners are the reason behind all of our problems, including health care.
Initially when I watched the video I was absolutely outraged thinking of the citizens in the United States that are continually denied treatment and are dying because they cannot afford healthcare. I was extremely angered to learn that the government refused to acknowledge the problem. As I read Sam’s comments, I began to take a different perspective on the issue. I saw that you can never really judge someone until “you’ve walked in their shoes.” I still stand by opinion that illegal immigrants are becoming an economical problem in the United States, but I have considered how other countries are dealing with the immigration process as well. Do they have an influx amount of people coming into their countries? Do they have more or do they have less? I think that all these questions are worth considering. We constantly hear about the immigration problem in the United States. I have to be honest, that I do not watch the news all that often, but I have not heard of many complaints from many other countries pertaining to immigration rates. I found it very interesting that many poor countries are providing free services to foreigners, especially to Americans.
On the other hand, it is all well and good to hear of these inspiring stories from other countries. Ultimately, I think we need to make a progressive step in making it fair for all countries. This is a large undertaking and most likely wishful thinking, but programs such as healthcare are universal and should be provided for all. Granted, these programs come with very high costs and someone has to pay for it, but a plan needs to be devised in order to provide healthcare for all. When a person is brought into an emergency room, it should not be a question, are you a legal citizen of the United States? What if the answer was no? Would you deny that person medical services and simply let them die before you? I think it is a terrible situation currently that there seems to be no answers to. It seems that this idea goes along with the prejudices and stereotypes that have been ever so popular. We want to be number one and we look at all those who are not American as below us. Therefore when an illegal immigrant enters a hospital and receives treatment and returns to their native country without payment, as if they had health insurance, many Americans are outraged because people in their own country are not receiving the necessary treatments to help them. I think they have every right to believe this, yet I question whether they, as I did previously, considered how other countries are facing this exact same problem.
The issue of illegal immigrants taking advantage of our healthcare system is one of great concern. In all reality, the issue of just our healthcare system in general is of great concern as well, specifically with such inflated prices. But the focus here is on how we as Americans should feel when we are faced with paying for the services provided for free to those who are not citizens of the United States. Personally, this idea infuriates me. Especially in times of the failing economy, it angers me to think that we are shouldering the costs of those who do not deserve the rights that we are entitled to for expensive costs. It is unfair and indecent for them to be allowed to return home or wherever they are going to without having to worry about the fact that we just spent thousands of dollars for them when it costs some of us that much for our own doctor visits. I think these people SHOULD be sent home immediately after we help to care for them.
Unfortunately, however, I cannot argue with the fact that it is the right thing to do to accept anyone that comes to the hospital and not turn him or her away because they are illegal. If someone needs help, someone needs help. In a moment of need, I could only hope that someone would be there for me, no matter what the situation was at the time. I wish that there were some way, though, that these foreigners who do not belong to the United States could return the favor. Yet, what is the right solution for this problem? With illegal immigration becoming such an issue, we need to focus first on preventing that problem before we can prevent illegal aliens from using our services.
On the other hand, Dr. Richards’ comments about seeing the situation from the other side are something that I never thought about before. I’m actually glad that he brought these points up, but at the same time it only makes the situation that much more frustrating. More unanswered questions arise, such as “How can we make this situation fair in the eyes of Americans when we are having the same affects over in other countries?” It’s somewhat different because the number of illegal citizens living in the United States is much larger than those United States folks living uninsured in foreign countries. But at the same time, it’s the same scenario and we cannot deny it. I never realized or thought about the fact that this is taking place with our people as well.
No matter what though, I am still very angry about the whole situation. For the most part, I care about mine and my family’s costs more than anything and I still hope that there is a way we can eliminate illegal use of our system. This may sound selfish but I’m only being honest. I don’t like the idea of having to pay for those that don’t live here when I am struggling to pay for my own life – and I will have assuredly huge healthcare costs in the future when I live on my own. I don’t agree with it.
Obviously, healthcare is a very important issue in the United States. One that political campaigns are constantly discussing, fighting for or against. It is important for an American citizen to have health care because quite frankly, medical care of any kind can be very, very pricey especially with today’s economy. I could never imagine getting my wisdom teeth out for free or my dad’s recent knee injury fully recovered with free surgery, free braces, free rehab, free everything. For obvious reason an illegal immigrant getting away with something like this would anger any American struggling to keep up their medical bills. I do not pay my own bills quite yet, but if I did I am sure I would be bothered by this. Now I do not know a lot about the rules of who gets healthcare and who does not in the United States, so maybe our healthcare and medical prices are a lot higher than the other countries. After all we are fairly more advanced in some aspects. So I ask was that appendix removal fairly lower in costs in Mexico City than it would have been over here in the United States? Maybe that is the reason they seem to have no problem with a free surgery in Mexico City, but I could be wrong, maybe they are just less greedy over there then in the US.
Putting myself in their shoes I can also feel their pain. Immigrants come to the States for opportunity and a better lifestyle. If an immigrant is working at minimum wage, imagine the burden medical costs may take on that kind of salary. It is hard not to feel a little bit of sympathy in that aspect. It is heartless to turn away any human being in need of a doctor, especially if the care is needed immediately. If immigrants illegal or not are turned away by what the world sees as the most educated doctors in the world, imagine what kind of image the United States is going to get from that. This could easily be taken as a racist act! And for a country that worries so much about its world relations, this would not be good. If the world were a perfect place, we could figure out a way to make all medical care equal with equal prices for the equal quality of treatment. We would figure out a way for every human being in the world to have full access to whatever healthcare needed at anytime, anyplace regardless of one’s origin or race. Chances of this happening I can confidently say are slim to none, but I guess all a person can do is dream…
Healthcare is currently and always will be an enormous issue in the United States. It is very important, especially at a time when our economy is not at its best, that we create a healthcare system that can benefit the majority of the public. At this point in time, medical care is extremely expensive and is putting a huge hole in many American citizens’ wallets. After hearing this story, I could not help but jump on the side of the hospital and think that it isn’t right for us to pay for the medical bills of illegal aliens. Although I believe that the American hospitals should reject no one, American citizen or not, who is in need of treatment at any point in time, I also feel that we should not have to pay for another country’s expense. It is not fair that these people are getting away with “freebies” when it comes to their healthcare and we are stuck paying for these enormous medical bills of people that are illegally living in our country to begin with. When Dr. Richards made the reference to how other countries are good and willing to pay for American’s medical care when they are over in their country, he fails to recognize that they might not be in the same economic crisis as we are. As a whole, our country is struggling financially. Paying for the healthcare of illegal individuals should not be another expense that is added on to our list of burdens. I believe that we must find a way to still be able to treat these foreign patients while not having to take the money directly out of the pockets of millions of Americans who are actually paying for healthcare monthly.
However, to take on another point of Dr. Richards, the actual prices that hospitals are currently charging for their healthcare is already unbearable and beginning to seem insane. Dr. Richards told a story about how his wife was charged $20.00 for a bag of ice, which in reality should be free. It seems as though healthcare providers will find any way they can to try and charge you for everything and when they do, they do it at an outrageous price. Although, paying for the medical care of illegal foreigners might add on to the expenses of healthcare, it does not nearly top the amount of money we have to pay for the extremely costly expenses of the medical bills of our own. It now seems that surgeries and hospital visits are getting more and more expensive while insurance companies are covering less and less. This doesn’t seem to make sense. How are we supposed to afford the healthcare of illegal foreigners if we are currently struggling to pay for the medical expenses of our own family?
I think that it is extremely crazy, how much hospitals charge patients for the simplest things like ice. It’s pretty ironic that we (the US) are the richest country and many of us don’t even have health insurance. Especially when places like Canada everyone has health care. The hospitals are nothing more than a business, which means that they are out to make money, even if they have to bill patients for every ice cube they use. At the same time I do not think it is fair for Citizens to have to pay for illegal immigrants bills. People who are from America who are living in other countries, I think it is a total different culture as well as hospitals being able to support people without health insurance. Culturally, other countries may not be as into the cost of medicine because it is covered differently than here. Other countries might value more just helping a patient and participating in medical miracles rather than just being out to make a buck. Health care is huge in American because many people don’t have it, and that only makes the hospital bill them, and consequently they could get into major debt. So, I understand why many Americans choose to live in other countries, because we have some major issues. Sometimes I think I do not like America very much and I cannot see why so many people want to come to a country that has their priorities messed up. Don’t get me wrong but I sometimes wish that I was born in Kuwait or someplace like that. Maybe my views are this way because I am an American and I do not see what other countries lack in an effort to see which I would prefer, because no country is perfect. In this case I think it is perfectly fine to point the blame at the American government, because they have not figured out a way to allow citizens to have health insurance. Other countries have figured it out so why can’t we. Hospitals should not be left with these cost burdens, but in the same aspect they should not charge so much for a patients’ stay. I guess I have to take the P.O.V. of an illegal immigrant, many of whom work for minimum wage and have families to support. What if they were faced with a serious illness? If they do not have health insurance then the hospital has to take them on. I think it is really sad that the country the immigrant is from could care less about how much money in hospital bills they owe in America. I wonder if the citizens of other countries face the same problem with Americans who reside there. Are they complaining about money coming out of their pockets? Is the money coming out of their pockets? Would America pay for an illegal Americans’ hospital bill while they reside in another country? Or would they turn the other cheek like the women stated in the video.
Since I am a United States citizen, I was very taken back when I first began reading this article. Affording good health care has almost become impossible these days, and many people have gone in great debt because of it. I have not yet personally had to pay for my health insurance and bills, but I still do understand the amount that it has reached today. It’s scary and very unfortunate for those who aren’t able to afford it, especially when they are people of our own country.
Until I watched the video of the woman speaking, I never truly understood how high hospital bills could get. At this Florida hospital, to just care for one man, it was over a million dollars. It almost seems ridiculous that something could cost that much. It was very frustrating knowing that the United States citizens are the people paying for this man’s health, however towards the end of the article there was a good point made. We have many people living out of the country, and therefore may be relying on people of that country to pay their health bills. However, I do think immigrants from other countries rely more on the United States than any other country. Here, people think they come and “live the American Dream”, and therefore forget the responsibilities and hard work that is necessary to achieve it. I do think that people in the United States are healthier and more stable, therefore are more likely to be able to keep their responsibility to their medical bills.
We will never truly know who owes who more money. All that we really know, is that people will always rely on other people. But, when do we cross the line? How do we know when it’s just a favor, “helping a friend out”, or when it actually becomes a burden? It’s almost impossible to turn down someone in need. Who would want to have someone suffer because they refused to help them out? But, when you think of reality, money isn’t just floating around. True, everyone wants to help everyone else. But, do you truly want to help them out when they are putting you in debt? Then, you personally, are suffering because of someone not fulfilling their obligations. When someone gets something for free, or so easily, they begin to take it for granted. It’s hard for them to appreciate it so much, when they get is so often. Having a patient be in the hospital for two years makes it like a normal routine. This article points out how it’s extremely hard to place boundaries. No one wants to be the one to turn away people in need, but sometimes we need to.
Two thousand years ago, a man named Jesus was roaming the grassy plains of Earth. Through stories, we have it that he charged no money for healing people. Through opinions, he is also the greatest “man” ever to live. Take from that what you will.
When fire fighters save a cat from a tree, is it true that they do not charge the old lady accountable for losing poor Whiskers? Aint it true?
And aint it true that one day you were a baby and could not make food for yourself. Did somebody charge you for the food they cooked you to keep you alive: to save your life in a sense? Aint it true? I’ll let you do the thinking.
When the World Trade Towers were attacked, fire fighters risked their lives to save human beings. Keep thinking.
Drugs… They kill people. People BUY drugs, so people in a sense, pay for their death. Well, if you’re paying attention, you would catch on. Not yet? Well dig this.
When you watch a commercial for Master Card is says, “shoes… 5$... pants….. 10$..... Living in Texas, Priceless.” Or something parallel to that. You still do not see it? It is ok. Listen closely to this.
Otis Reddings sings a nice jingle called, Sitting on the Dock of the Bay. It says, “I left my home in Georgia, was a heading for the ‘Frisco bay. Dunanan…*words words* seems like nothing gonna come my way. *dunanana… words* (this is the important part), ‘So I’m just gone sit by the dock of the bay, watching the tides roll away, I’m just gone sit by the dock of the bay wasting time’”
Let’s take Pokémon season one. Ash Ketchum see’s a rough Charmander who has a cold hearted trainer abandon him in the rain storm. What does Ash do? He saves Charmander’s life. A Pokémon does not even carry currency, and if you watch closely at the Pokémon center, there is no transaction of cash involved. Nurse Joy saves Charmander because of a little thing called love.
In the movie Southpark, Kenny dies because his Doctors misplace his heart with a baked potato. Kenny’s healthcare was poor, because he was poor or because the doctor was horrible. None the less, Kenny paid for his death.
Cigarettes: five dollars a pack. Death in a pretty package.
Chocolate kisses in extreme excess: heart failure. Death. Game over. You paid for your death.
When Goku saves planet Namek from Freeza, he risks his own life and the life of his friends. He asks every single life form in the entire Universe for spirit for the Spirit Bomb. Fortunately, nobody was stingy, and they all gave a little bit of help. Goku used a massive spirit bomb (which was free) and hurt Freeza very bad. It did not kill him, but eventually a Disctructo Disk killed him.
In the first journal I quoted Eddwin Star’s song, War, saying, “War, what is it good for? Good God Yall,” because human beings are dying. Death is final. Death is not something to be taken lightly. When I think about dying it scares me because I am human. I would hope that somebody would save me if I was dying.
Healthcare seems to be a huge issue in the United States, mostly because of the lack thereof. And with the current economic slump that we are in, prices are escalating while employment rates are declining, causing more citizens to be at a loss with health insurance. Although I do see the point that Sam is trying to make, and I do respect it, I actually have to say that I disagree with parts of it. I will concur that the prices that healthcare facilities and hospitals charge are in fact very inflated, but we also live in a much richer and modern society with a lot more resources to offer. But to think that a bag of ice costs $20.00 is just simply over the top. I think that the number of illegal immigrants that make it into the United States is almost impossible to fathom, just as is the number of illegal immigrants that receive medical attention. I do not expect our health facilities to turn away patients in need of help in any way, but I do expect them to be rational about the amount of help and care that they supply the patients with, as well as the amount of naiveté that they have when it comes to being reimbursed by the foreign patient and/or country. In the United States, patients receive more reliable and successful medical procedures than in any other country. So to compare our healthcare facilities to that of one in Mexico is not on the most reasonable level. Our tax payers and the exorbitant amounts of money that they put out are being taken advantage of by this society and without them this country would not be able to flourish.
I do not agree with the YouTube video at all. First off, I feel as if the hospital put out more labor than needed for these patients. Granted I was not physically there in person to see the attention that was necessary, but to hospitalize a foreign patient for 760 days is absurd. Somewhere in the midst of the two and a half years, the country should have been contacted and arrangements for him to return home should have been made. That was the hospital’s first mistake.
I believe that it definitely isn’t always the patient’s fault though. One cannot argue that hospitals do not go on a diagnosis frenzy to simply make money. You could have something as simple as a headache, and all of a sudden you have a brain tumor and you need multiple cat-scans and MRI’s, and eventually surgery. My dad works at a hospital and I’m sure that he can argue in favor of my accusation. It is safe to say that our healthcare facilities indeed have a lot of modifications that still need to be made.
I think that this is a very large problem going on in the United States. Sam Richards did make a very good point but my point is more on the millions of people that are legal citizens that go into hospitals that cannot afford health care and all their medical needs are paid for by the hospital as well. What is being done about these individuals? My feeling is that nothing happens. Just like the Americans in Ireland that get their medical care paid for no matter what’s wrong because they aren’t just going to leave them there. Especially for us to take care of our own citizens, we are going to do it. So it is not much different than caring for an illegal immigrant, besides the fact that they are illegal immigrants. I understand that that fact might be more of the problem, but I am just saying that some of our own citizens are using up our tax money and health care and all that. And it doesn’t seem like they are being pointed out or anything like that.
Another point is that although this is very infuriating to me and probably everyone who reads this, as long as I get covered for the times and expenses I am charged for when I get injured or something like that I am not in too much of an angry state to really do anything about it. The main reason for this is because what are we really suppose to do. As in the hospitals, are they suppose to say no to a person with renal failure that walks in their door. Not everything should always lead to the moral side of things but I think in this case it might just have to. Would it be morally acceptable to turn down any person that cannot afford to be helped? Unfortunately for me I am being a hypocrite and saying no, it wouldn’t be morally acceptable but at the same time I am angry that they are using my tax dollars. So like I said before as long as I get taken care of I sort of turn a blind eye to the situation. I know that sounds bad because it is bad, these people are using my money for their health care. But what if you were put in their situation, like the example in Ireland, or even if you were a citizen here that cannot afford to have health care. Are you not supposed to get taken care of because of the amount of money you have or don’t have? I know these are illegal immigrants which makes the situation a little steeper but then take care of them and then ship them out, once again morally would you just say no to helping them?
Being 19 and still under the care of my parents it can sometimes be hard to relate to issues concerning healthcare because when I break a bone, I go to the hospital, am taken care of by the doctors and then my parents take care of me. Worries of paying bills and insurance costs have never been a burden I’ve had to face so far. But as the economy remains in a state of “recession” and year after year more and more illegal immigrants enter our country, I do believe that it is an important topic to discuss. Living in Pennsylvania I am not surrounded by the effects of illegal immigrants on an everyday basis. Mexico is located nowhere near me and Pittsburgh is not a town that immigrants come to settle in. Despite that, every American is directly affected by the costs that illegals run up on our tab. We do have highly inflated medical insurance and it costs thousands of dollars to have even the simplest procedures done. But a big reason that this probably is the case is because so much money goes into paying for people without insurance that honest American citizens get stuck with the bill. How is that fair? Sam brings up a good point that in other countries there are probably also thousands of Americans that receive care without also having insurance. While this may be the case, the difference in costs is what makes this issue so important. On top of healthcare, one thing that has always bothered me is America’s need to constantly be involved in the business of other countries. Yes we are the world super power and yes a lot of the times we do it out of national defense, but instead of reaching out to other countries to try and fix them we should look within our borders and start to work from the inside out. The democrats are always persisting that drilling in Alaska for oil will ruin natural habitats and we shouldn’t proceed with it. But if we as a country were able to generate our own fuel and oil then we would be able to deal less with the Middle East and the constant battling we go through with them and be able to keep the money in the pockets of U.S. citizens. Sometimes I don’t think it really is the illegal immigrants that are totally at fault. I think it would be wise for us as a country to start focusing on our own problems and get money back into the hands of rightful, legal citizens to start to strive for the change that has been promised to us so much in the past year of campaigning.
In my last Sociology Recitation we had a very heated discussion about illegal immigrants. Most of the group was for illegal immigration, while about four kids were completely against it. Now given that I am not very educated on the topic I still have opinions about it. Why would anyone want to pay for illegals when they are taking up space in hospitals and having us, legal citizens, pay for them? Does that seem fair? Ok, maybe they do not have any money, but then they can stay in a hospital wherever they are from.
Healthcare is a HUGE issue in our country. As young as I am, I have been hearing about it for years. It is definitely a deciding factor for some in what presidential candidate he or she chooses. If we cannot get the healthcare we need all the time, then why should people who do not even belong in our country? It is one thing if they are here on vacation and get terribly sick. I would not want to be turned away from a hospital when visiting a country and suddenly need an appendectomy, but I would be willing to pay for it. Why should we accept anyone who just wants to bum off of our system?
If they are willing to become citizens and are in the process then, sure, we can do our best to treat them, but if they are here because they have no where else to go and want the fair citizens of America to treat you… then think again. According to the video, an illegal immigrant is in an American hospital for two years with brain damage and his bills amount to over a million dollars that U.S. citizens are paying for. Give me a break. If he ever did anything to benefit this country maybe I would have the slightest bit of solace.
Healthcare, be it a big issue, probably will not get solved anytime in the near future. Our nation’s economy is the most important problem to solve at the moment. Illegal Immigrants are not helping us. If we got rid of all of them, it would create more jobs for our citizens. Even if pay is at low wages, it is better than no wages. It was brought up in our Sociology Recitation that if someone lost their job they would not just want to become a garbage man. I disagree. Garbage men earn anywhere from $35,000 to $80,000 a year depending on where you work and who you work for. Now it is not the most enticing job, but it is by far not the worst job possible.
Anyway, back on subject and summarizing my opinion, I find it 100% unfair that illegals are sucking up our money by spending years in our hospitals. The most we should ever do is patch them up enough for them to live and send them back.
This just flat out pisses me off. There is no reason and no excuse that can make me feel any small amount of sympathy for any of these people. Number one… nobody should be moving to any country (this includes Americans, Mexican… etc) without be properly insured. If that idiot in Ireland moves there with no insurance and gets pneumonia and dies, that's his own fault. Now it is very kind of the Irish hospital to save him and ask for nothing in return. But if Ireland has universal healthcare, the taxes that these people pay are not going to go up because of one sick American. However, he is taking a risk by living without healthcare in a foreign country and whatever happens while he is over there is a fact of life.
Number two, prices in America are inflated now and this is terrible. HOWEVER, prices are not going to go down when illegal immigrants keep on receiving excellent healthcare for free. I mean it is too bad that they got sick and are not insured, but I really do not care what happens to them. People say they want to come here and start a better life and that they are willing to work for free and do the “dirty jobs” that Americans do not want to do. Guess what, my family has a Russian cleaning lady who is living here legally and doing the same types of jobs that these illegal immigrants are doing. The only difference is that this woman has respect and dignity in what she is doing by following the laws of the country she is in.
So let’s review, if people want to come at me with the number of Americans living in foreign countries who are receiving healthcare for free at the cost of foreign tax payers, let them die. I really do not care if they are taken care of or not. As for these immigrants coming here illegally and then get deathly ill, you have two options. One is to not take the easy rode and hope the border because it is convenient, but take the time to get a visa and come here legally and pay your dues like my family had to do when they emigrated over here. Or get sick and die in your home and realize that it was probably a better idea to just stay in Mexico where there is access to government healthcare.
I am so tired of hearing these stories about millions of dollars being spent on people who do not deserve it. My family is from Italy and they moved here and started a new life just like these people want to do now. the only difference is my family did things legally and with respect, pride and dignity.
Sherrell Obaji
Sam Richards - Soc 119
Due: 2/20/09
Those Undocumented Thieves?
People cannot work or perform their daily task without their health being into place. Individuals go into bankrupt every day, because their trying to either pay off or finish paying for their hospital bills. Implementing health care in the United States can increase life expectancy and lower infant mortality. When the American insurance companies deny coverage to citizens; their creating more of an increase in the spread of diseases (more health issues). My class and I did a study on universal health care around the world, and it was very interested to find that the same problems that the United State is having is the same thing that other countries are going through as well. Below is some of my finding I fought while researching (very interesting)!
• In comparison to the United States, once a person has been fired or laid off in Switzerland their job health insurance is not offered to them anymore; but after LaMal was approved for health care, everyone was offered health insurance. The LaMal is a comprehensive package for all he citizens in Switzerland. With the LaMal in effect no one goes bankrupt over health care. The Switzerland government believes that everyone should have health care.
• The citizens of British pay for national health services through their higher taxes; the system covers everyone (all ages rage). No one has to pay a premium, because all expenses (fees) is covered through the NHS. But, the citizens of the United States may not like their system, because it’s a government run service it may seem too close to socializism.
• The Japanese government dictates everything that is being spent in health. The government sets the price for every cut, surgery, and burn, etc; this leaves the doctors and hospital without any profit to increase growth (50% hospitals are in money trouble).The government picks up the tab for poor people. The Japanese pay into what they call “social insurance Fund.” Each citizen is required to sign up for health insurance through their jobs or community base.
While, watching the clip my first impression was not too positive, but as started to think about the situation and how I would have dealt with a situation such as this one I probably would have behaved the same way; the difference is that I would not have done it one the tax payer money, I think that is very egotistic and selfish. In my opinion, I think getting turn down for a condition that a person had already is not fair; I think this is a situation that will keep repeating itself until health care is offered to everyone.
Sam, your experience in a Mexican hospital was extremely different from that of mine. In March of 2007 I was on spring break in Acapulco and broke my leg. I was transported, via taxi, to a hospital in Acapulco where the on call doctor was not called until I gave the hospital one hundred dollars in cash. My parents, who were in the United States, called American Express to have a represent from the credit card company to call the hospital stating that they would verify any cost of any charge made and that was no sufficient enough; it was cash or get out.
I think that what we need to think about prior to speaking about health care of illegal immigrants is the cost of health care in general. In this country we do not have health care we have sick care. There are not many preventative measures that are taken to keep us out of the emergency room, yet we still pay co-pays for immunizations and such, and once we get to the emergency room, we are slammed with bills. After breaking my leg I had to have my leg operated on twice, once to fix the problem and then one to undo the problem once it was fixed. Both times I was in the hospital I was charged $100 for crutches…crutches?! I can make a pair of crutches out of some branches, or go by them in a medical supply store for thirty bucks, but once you get to the hospital, everything is inflated. I was charged another $100 for a physical therapist to watch me crutch up and down the hallway once and tell me that I am okay to go home, I seriously considered changing my major at that point.
When it comes to illegal immigrants, I sure as hell do not want to be footing the bill for their hospital visits when my own hospital visits are absurd. I think that what we first need to focus on is lowering the price of health care in general, then figure out what to do with illegal immigrants in United States health care. In the United States health care is a huge issue, the people who need it the most do not have it and end up having to pay vast amounts to seek the care they need. People who can afford health care typically do not need it as much or as often as those in lower socioeconomic class, when one has money they have the means to be healthy. I do not think that these people of higher class should have to pay for those who cannot afford, but I do think that the scale need to be tipped to even out those who have less but need more.
As far as I'm concerned, American health care is a complete rip off. The last time I went to the hospital, there really was nothing wrong with me. I fainted and was transported to the hospital. When I awoke, I realized that I didn't even get a hospital room, I sat in the hallways on a wheely bed with a blanket. A nurse took my blood pressure and clipped my finger up to a machine that measured my pulse. The doctor came up to me and asked me to do a balance check. I left within 30 minutes with nothing to show for it. As I learned about a month later, had I not had health insurance, the entire 30 minute visit would have cost me $1,250 plus an addition $325 for a five minute ambulance ride. When I first got the bill, I was so upset that I had to pay a little more than $1,500 for such a pointless trip to the hospital. The only things I used were the blankets and the plastic cover they put on the clip that lead to the machine that checked my pulse. I pay three dollars to do laundry in my apartment, and the last time I checked, little plastic covers don't cost $1,572. Its not like I took more than five minutes of the nurse's or doctor's time. I mostly paid to sit in a hallway on a wheely bed waiting to go home.
I think that because the price of health care is so ridiculously high, it is unfair that we charge anyone so much to be helped in a time of need. The reason immigrants can't even fathom paying back the prices that we charge for medical care is because health care is so much pricier than it would be in a country that has socialized medicine. I wish that someone could have broken down to me what exactly during my trip to the hospital cost me so much money. I would be curious to know what exactly the expenses were that those immigrants used while in the hospital that cost them so much money. I'm sure that they had a room and more extensive and expensive procedures performed on them, but im sure they were also charger for frivolous things. The point made at the end of the blog is that hospitals charge whatever they can in order to make money in hope that eventually the immigrants would be able to pay their debts back. However, I'm wondering how much profit they are making on a $20 ice pack or $22,000 dollars in ice pack funds over two years. Overpriced health care is the injustice here, not paid health care for non United States citizens.
Health care is a sensitive issue in the United States. Its cost has been rising every year for different purpose which doesn’t even make sense. Like Sam said the costs are ridicules for what I don’t know. I have a perfect example I went to the hospital for extreme pain on my back over the summer. All I was told to do for it was to bye Motrin over the counter. The hospital did not provide me anything else but different doctors coming in asking me the same questions and concluded the medicine I needed was Motrin. My insurer was charged five hundred dollars. My point is that I understand if United States citizen are upset that somebody is getting a free care while we pain a lot of money. But let’s face it the people that has insurance are the once that can offered it, those illegal immigrants did not come to the United States to hurt people they came to the United States to better their lives. Regardless of the money issue of the health care system, I think it would be inhumane and immoral for a hospital to turn away a sick or dying person. Illegal immigrants came to the US primarily to find work and make money. I am not saying that is a right way to do it but if we were people that live in poor country we probably would do the same thing. If a person is hurt how can you have a hurt not to provide them a healthcare? I don’t think these people are just going to the hospital to just get check up they are going to those hospitals because they are in a very bad condition. The lady was complaining because they were out of thirty thousand dollars. Theses money are made with unnecessary charges any way. So I do not have any sympathy for them. I personally do not think that the hospitals provide good care of these illegal immigrants. Knowing their circumstances. With that been said, I understand why Americans would be upset that they paying thousands of dollars to get a health care but illegal immigrants are not paying anything. We also have to think about the Americans that live in different countries. I am pretty sure every single one of them do not have an insurance coverage so if something were to happen to them and ended up going to the local hospitals I know they would not turn them around. Because it is almost everybody value to help for the people that need our help. After all isn’t that what we are suppose to do anyway. I think people should look at their situation before judging them.
Healthcare is a huge and controversial issue in our society today. It is so big because there are so many Americans that cant afford to be insured so that are not getting the proper health care that they need when they get sick. There are countless people who skip doses of medicine, cut pills in half, or do not go to the hospital or doctor if they are sick unless they are about to die because they can't afford what the hospital will charge. Even when you are insured American it is crazy to look at the bill the Insurance or hospital bills you and look at how much the hospitals are charging you and your insurance company. A small trip to the Emergency Room can add up to hundreds of dollars even thousands quickly for something minor. I just think that our health care system needs to be taken care of, something needs to be done. Especially when tax payers are paying for treatment of illegal immigrants. Now do not get me wrong I do think if someone walks into a hospital and needs to be taken care they should be because it is the right thing for a hospital to do, it would be crazy and wrong not to no matter who the person is. I just find it insane how much we are allowing these people to stay in the hospital. Now when you get sick or have a baby the hospitals try to get you out of there as quickly as possible. You use to have more time to recover in the hospital now it is only a couple of days. I think this process is really wrong especially when we are holding these illegal people in our hospitals for long periods of dime and are not getting any money for them. This is just raising the cost for us. I feel it is insane to for the hospitals to be spending their own money to send these people back to their own countries. I just think that this health care system is a bad cycle or system. I know it is meant for good but it seems like it is corrupt or more importantly just needs to be fixed. On the one hand like Sam say's there are Americans in other countries that go into the hospitals and are treated because that is what a hospital should do so I am glad that they do that because if I got sick somewhere else I would want to be able to get treatment from a hospital. I do not believe that they don't always bill you I am sure that some people pay for the treatment they receive there. Also I feel that there are many more illegal people that come into our hospitals in the US than Americans that go into hospitals in other countries. Even think about how these Americans aren't just going into hospitals in one country they are going into different countries so it isn't as many people affecting one country however here in the United States when these illegal people go into the hospitals in all the different states it is only affecting one country us.
Healthcare… quite the issue. It’s always been a problem all over the world, each country having its own “solution.” Before I begin, I want to make it clear that I both understand and respect Sam’s position. I, however, do not agree.
I know that our health care costs are inflated to a ridiculous extent, but that could also be to pay the American workers who also have to pay bills of their own, after investing a good decade (not to mention the unbearable loans) into their educations. Leaving the actual money amount aside, the fact that any person here illegally is getting any sort of service (especially for free!) truly irks me. They should not be here, so they should not receive service (of any type). When I go to the doctor’s, I don’t receive a wave good-bye and an assurance that my government will pay for it, I receive a bill and I am expected to pay. I live here. Legally. Why should the anyone who is here illegally have an advantage over me?
I know, I know, flip it around and you get all the American citizens using other country’s health care for free. However, I am not from any other country. I am a United Statesian (or so Sam says). But how many of those Americans using the services are in those countries illegally? I don’t know, but I’m guessing less than the number of illegal immigrants that are here. If they aren’t there illegally, that means that the country let them in, knowing the risks to tax payer’s money.
Also, however the other countries want to deal with foreigners using healthcare services at the government’s expense is up to them. They can decide what to do and who to serve (or not to serve). I’m not here to say “well, we balance each other out.” I don’t care about that. It’s those other country’s responsibility to weed out who receives healthcare for free.
The issue in general of illegal aliens frustrates me just as much as anyone. Even though I am for deporting any illegal person, I do realize that many of them have tried to come legally and couldn’t get through all the red tape. I think that the US should alleviate some of this to make it more reasonable to come here legally, in hopes that more people would oblige.
Back to the issue at hand, hospitals in the US aren’t allowed to turn a person away if he or she is in need of health care. I don’t really know how I feel about that, so I’m not going to comment. I do think that if such a person is here illegally and uses our healthcare services with no intention or way of paying, we should be allowed to bill that person’s country, and have such a way to ensure payment.
This story brought a lot of mixed feelings for me. One was annoyance – not only over the fact that the illegal immigrants are costing so much money, but over the U.S. Health Care system in general. My grandmother has been in the hospital for three weeks now. She had to go in because of bad circulation in her legs and some sort of bone infection. After two weeks of laying around having random tests done to try to open the veins in her legs, they eventually just amputated her left leg. They are currently waiting to see what happens with the right leg. Now I know she needed to be in the hospital and the doctors told us that if they did not amputate, she would eventually die from the infection. But her insurance does not cover all of the medical bills. It does help a great deal but the total cost is not taken care of. And, not to completely compare my grandmother with an illegal immigrant, but she is elderly living in a senior citizen community and does not have a great deal of money. In addition, the health care system has ridiculously inflated prices – as mentioned with the twenty dollar bag of ice. How are we to be sure that what patients are being charged is the real cost of their treatment? Another feeling for me was confusion. I do not think we should deny illegal immigrants the right to treatment if they’re sick. If I was in a foreign country and got deathly ill, I would hope that the hospital would take care of me. However, I did not realize that it is expected that we would receive such treatment for free. I assumed before reading this article that I would simply have to pay the costs of my hospital care – but I guess since our insurance would not cover treatment in another country, the bills would be really expensive. I think it is unfair for illegal immigrants to get free medical treatment, when many Americans cannot afford their entire hospital bill, or even health care in general, but I think it is wrong to turn them away. I think health care should not be as expensive but in order to fix this we would need more government help. I was really angry to hear that the when the hospital attempts to report the illegal immigrants to the federal authorities, they respond by saying they are not concerned unless a crime has been committed. As the man questioning the Florida representative says, isn’t being illegal crime enough? I think it is up to our government to implement more measures to control illegal immigration and it is also up to our government to lower health care costs. After listening to the video, apparently the two go hand in hand. If we eliminate illegal immigrants who are racking up hospital bills and then are unable to pay them, we will lower the health care cost for American citizens who wish to have it.
Although when we are pointing a finger at someone else, there are three pointing back at us, I find this video article absolutely ludicrous. As I remember correctly, the video stated that one of the residents of the Florida hospital, the Guatemalan who was in this country illegally, spent the tax payers one point five million dollars in hospital fees! In addition, they even paid the thirty-thousand to transport the illegal back to the home country. Florida is paying a lot of money in legal fees in a battle with that person’s family that lives in the state. The woman in the video reported that in 2007 alone, Florida spent one hundred million dollars on hospitalizing illegal aliens. I find these statistics to be heinous. Thousands of Americans do not have health care and are denied from getting the treatment, medicine, etc. that they need. These are American citizens, who were actually born in this country, who work jobs and pay American taxes that essentially help out other fellow citizens, who are not being given the kind of care that they deserve. However, we are allowing illegal aliens, who were not born in this country, who snuck in, who are not paying American taxes to help out other American citizens, the treatment that we are not given our own citizens. Now, I am lucky. My parents have well-paying jobs with good benefits. They have health care for my sister and I so getting to see doctors, treatment, and medicine was never a problem for me or my family. However, if I was one of those thousands of Americans with no health care, I would be gritting my teeth with fury wanting to work the border control/security myself. Doctors, hospitals, etc. are helping out those who do not belong here before our own people who rightfully deserve the help.
Now, on the other side, if I was to be visiting a foreign country and was overcome with a certain sickness (as was Dr. Richards), I would like to be seen in a hospital and provided with the treatment to recover. However, while visiting that foreign country, the country and its government would know that I am spending time there because I would be providing my passport, entailing who I am, where I am from, etc. In addition, I would be legally allowed in that country for the time being. If I was to be denied treatment in the country I was legally supposed to be and something extreme happened, it would be utterly unfortunate. These are completely different circumstances. These illegal aliens do not provide any form of identification, for example: who they are, where they are from, etc. They have entered the country illegally and are not supposed to be here in the first place. It would be completely different if a citizen of another country, who was visiting the United States and showed a passport, needed medical treatment.
This video was very interesting to me. I am currently a senior and majoring in Health Policy and Administration, which make healthcare news important to me. I found it shocking that 100 million was spent on illegal immigrants in 2007. I knew that our health system in the United States take care of illegal immigrants and those who cannot pay when they come in to emergency rooms. I did not know that some of them stayed for up to 2 years, but I guess in the back of my mind I really did know. I am not outraged by this, but I do find it wrong. I completely agree with taking care of those who cannot pay when they come in the emergency room. Allowing care to continue for multiple years and receiving no reimbursement is something I do not agree with. I understand that United States citizens are also cared for in other countries, however it does not mention in the article if these United State citizens are illegal in these other countries.
Our healthcare system in the United States needs plenty of work. We have a ton of United State citizens who cannot afford healthcare and need help paying for it. I am currently without health insurance. Both of my parents have no healthcare. My father lost his job and my mother’s job does not offer health care. I applied was on the SCHIP program until I was 18, after that I did not have any coverage. I applied for Medicaid. It was a very long process. I was finally accepted. It was nice to be able to be able to afford my inhalers once again. Once I turned 21, which was in September, I lost my coverage. So I am now without any cover. I will be receiving health insurance when I start my job in June, but until then I am on my own. I had a incident a couple weeks ago where I have a fever over 102. I could not afford to go to the Emergency Room so I just had to wait it out. I had to go our health services on campus and some of the prescriptions the doctor wrote for me I could not afford. I know many people do abuse Medicaid but there are people who need it.
I think we should offer better help to those in our country who need health coverage then those who do are not citizens of the United States. I do not agree with paying taxes to go to these illegal immigrants for long term health care, when I cannot afford my own healthcare and cannot get help. I do think we should help those who are not citizens in emergency situations and in short term care situations. Something should be done though when these cases turn to long term care.
Let me start off first by saying my mom has a job working for a state government agency which has some of the best insurance policies out there, and I am covered as long as I am a full time student up until the age of 23. I have had surgery on my knee, and in the future will need a replacement because of the lack of cartlidge in my knee. In the past couple years, I have been to the hospital three times and just one of those times was 3,500 for two hours of treatment. Without insurance, my family would not have been able to pay that outright. Insurance is a big part of a person’s life, whether they have it or not, it is always looming.
Starting off with just the insurance part, it is not only illegal Americans who can walk into a hospital and receive healthcare without paying for it. One entire side of my family has no health insurance what so ever. Whenever they are sick, regardless of what it is, they go to the Emergency Room where they are helped and the hospital ends up eating the bill. I do not agree with that scenario when other people are doling out the money for insurance, but since the government is not helping them, they need help, and it is understandable.
Now taking in the fact that the people receiving help are illegal aliens is just preposterous. I am in no way shape or form, suggesting that these hospitals turn anyone away when they are in need of help, but they should NOT be here in the first place, hence the term illegal. Any American who receives care outside of the U.S. must have documentation on them such as a passport, visa, etc. The American can show that they are legally allowed to be in the country and in turn can be helped. They are most likely not illegal in a country. After the patient receives their care, I completely support them being sent back to their country of origin. I have seen the argument on here that an illegal immigrant should not have to go into a hospital and be afraid that they are going to be sent back to their country. I think they should be, because that is exactly where they belong if they came here illegally. I do understand that in some countries, such as Cuba, it is hard to come to the U.S. with your entire family, and continue to live here for generations, legally. On the other hand, the U.S. needs to come up with a plan that helps everyone living in the U.S. have healthcare, which many people have traveled up into Canada for.
After reading this blog and watching the video, I was shocked at what really goes on in hospitals concerning illegal immigrants and health care. Before reading this blog, I never really thought about the consequences or what happens when an illegal immigrant needs healthcare. I’m positive that the hospital in Florida is not the only hospital that deals with undocumented immigrants and the treatment of them without the hospital getting reimbursed. I am upset about the fact that U.S. tax paying citizens have to pay expensive healthcare just so that illegal immigrants can get treated for free or at little cost basically. I’m not saying that the hospitals should turn them away because I believe that no one should be turned away from healthcare just because that person does not have healthcare. What surprised me about the video, is that the hospital spent another 30,000 to send the patient back to his home country. I think that was a bad idea on the hospitals part, because not only did the hospital have to shell out the $30,000, but they were also out the money from the healthcare of the patient which came to a total of 1.5 million. I wish that I could get free healthcare and a free plane ticket to go back home, that would be like the American dream. I know that there are U.S. citizens that are living illegally in other countries, so this issue goes both ways. I’m sure that the people in other countries are no happier about paying for expensive healthcare. But there is a major difference between the United States and the other countries. The other countries have found other ways to accommodate non- citizens, so that they can healthcare too. It amazed me that hospitals in Mexico do not ask for money, but they politely ask for a pint of blood as a donation. However, I do not believe that it is right to turn away the Mexican citizens just to take care of a rich white American, not that he doesn’t deserve it , but the citizens of that country should come first. It makes me wonder what these countries are doing so as to keep healthcare coverage low and still be able to take care of the people that are visitors. The United States government must be doing something wrong, but whatever they are doing, they need to fix it. This issue is like a candle lit at both ends, the hospital will not be reimbursed because the immigrant does not have health insurance, and if the hospital turns him away; the immigrant will be in pain from whatever he is suffering and he will not be able to go home where he might have the chance of receiving help. Hopefully one day healthcare will change for the better.
Health care, especially in the current failing economy, has become an increasingly important issue to many families, especially to those families who do not currently have health care. This is obvious by watching the video and reading the blog “Those Undocumented Thieves?” I must admit, after watching the video about the multiple incidents that happened in that Florida hospital, I was somewhat shocked. I’ve heard a lot of the debates surrounding illegal immigration but had never thought about the role health care also played in this ongoing debate.
The American health care system is a travesty. It seems ridiculous that there are people in this country who are citizens yet cannot afford health care and are not given the same advantages as these illegal immigrants. I can’t help but think to the movie “John Q” when analyzing the health care system in America. This is just one of many movies that demonstrate the inequalities in place in our health care system and the extreme lengths people are willing to go to fight these inequalities. This shows that the system is unfair to legal American citizens so I can’t even imagine how immigrants, legal and illegal, are treated. It is common for anyone of Hispanic to be stereotyped as an immigrant, leading to unequal treatment by hospital workers and staff. If this were to happen to an American immigrant in another country, most people would be appalled yet these same people don’t find it awful that immigrants in America are treated with such disrespect.
After putting myself in the position of these immigrants, I see things in a very different light. I’ve never travelled outside of the United States, but have always wanted to. If I ever do make it outside the country, I would hope that a foreign hospital would be willing to show me the same kindness the American hospitals show these immigrants.
I think it’s important to remember that these immigrants, whether legal or illegal, are here to give themselves and their families a better life. That is impossible to do without proper health care. Maybe if these people were paid fair wages and treated fairly as laborers, they would be able to afford the medical bills they accumulate while in the United States.
This incident goes to show how self-centered of a country America is. Like Sam said in this blog, these things happen all the time in other countries. Foreign countries often offer medical care to visitors or those living in that country, however, these instances do not make the news. They are just seen as the right thing to do. I would hope that if I got ill in a foreign country, the doctors there would be kind enough to repay the favor American doctors do for other foreigners.
After watching the video on illegal immigrants receiving medical attention I was very angry. I pay taxes every year out of my hard earned money and for a person to accumulate millions of dollars worth of debt that they cannot pay back makes me furious. I realize that they are illegal immigrants and should not be treated by the hospital in the first place if the hospital expects to be paid back. I feel as if the hospital should learn their lesson after treating a certain amount of these people without receiving reimbursement. I also feel that the family that is suing the hospital for sending their family member back to his/her homeland should be forced to pay the bill that the illegal immigrant accumulated. If they are able to sue the hospital for millions of dollars then they should be faced with the consequences of the family member’s debt.
With a different perspective I can also see the other side of the dilemma that if other countries will provide healthcare for citizens other countries without expecting to be paid back. Their generosity should balance out in order to be considered fair but I have never heard of other countries complaining of over the top outstanding bills. I feel that this is in part caused by the United State’s over inflated medical system. If the bills were not over the top to begin with I feel that there would not be such a large issue circulating around the medical system. The hospital that is being damaged by these large bills and the illegal immigrant creating them should create better policies if they do not want to deal with these situations. If I were an illegal immigrant I would completely use the hospital services provided by the United States and never think twice about not paying the bill when I left the country. The added bonus is even added in that the hospital pays for a return trip home that I can enjoy and start my new healthy life without any fear of consequences.
I hope that when I travel around the world I will be confident in having medical care if I ever needed it. It should be the same in the United States but I can see the reasons why tax payer can be so angry. I do not want the United States to be using my hard earned money on over inflated hospital bills that should never be reaching over one million dollars in the first place. I feel as if the real problem in the United States is not the bills being created by illegal immigrants but the health care system itself. The whole system needs be revamped and new policies should be put in place to ensure quality care for every person that needs it.
I might be wrong, but I thought if you did not have health insurance in the U.S. that a hospital would not take you in and that if you had health insurance you could only go to the particular hospitals that accept your insurance; if there is a hospital that provides better service or is closer, especially in emergencies, it does not matter, you are just plain out of luck. In addition, it seems suspicious that a hospital, like the one in this story, would not check for identification and insurance information as soon as the patient was admitted, and especially after having a patient for two years? This seems strange to me. And not that I think that it is the right think to do, but hospitals do release or kick out patients if they know that they can no longer pay for their own care. It seems that these cases need to be investigated further, especially with the exorbitant amount of money that the hospital claimed to have spent on providing care for these illegal immigrants. I would not be shocked if some of the immigrants did not know that health care is paid individually here, when in other countries health care is universal and given to everyone from the money produced by taxes. No matter what the reason, I do not think that the immigrants intentionally tried to cheat the hospitals or America for that matter out of money. If the federal authorities will not deport these immigrants, like the representative for the hospital said, then again, if anyone is to blame it is not the immigrants. When looking at all the money that illegal immigrants are “stealing” from us, one has to consider all the facts. The truth is that these immigrants are taking jobs that other workers do not want. If anything, they are taking away low wage and skill jobs such as farming, cleaning, construction, and food preparation. And they earn less than legal immigrants, so technically employers and businesses should be happy with this. So though Americans think that illegal immigrants are a huge cost to society, the real balance of contributions and costs is difficult and yet to be fully known. The public forgets that these immigrants pay sale taxes and other forms of taxes just like everyone else, while probably creating no cost at a federal level. Instead of blaming illegal immigrants, if anything, the public should be more focused on holding the government accountable for not having better border control security and only apprehending about 1 to 2% of immigrants once they have taken up a residence. If potentially this is an issue for our society, than start by fixing the root of the problem, do not start by looking at the various branches.
In the article “Those Undocumented Thieves”, there was a video posted that dealt with the idea of illegal immigrants and health care facilities. The woman talked about how illegal immigrants are using health care facilities and are costing the facilities a large sum of money. Not only are the facilities handing the costs of the medical bills, but they are also paying for the flights returning the illegal immigrants back to their home country. After the woman addressed the crowd, someone asked the question of whether or not the facilities were reporting the illegal immigrants to the government. The response was that the government would not pursue the situation unless crime was involved. That is quite surprising since being an “illegal immigrant” is a crime all in itself. The woman in the video was reporting from a facility in Florida; however, these kinds of situations involving illegal immigrants and health care use is happening all over the United States. At first while I was reading this article and watching the video, I was outraged simply because there are ten of millions of Americans that cannot afford health care or are in a large debt. Being an American citizen, I would like to see more of the money that these facilities are spending go to American health care rather than going towards immigrants. But then the point that there are millions of Americans abroad living in other countries came about. A large number of these people are actually uninsured, putting them in the same situation as those discussed in the video. If I were an American living abroad, I would want and/or expect the same kind of treatment that a citizen of that particular country was receiving. I would be willing to pay for the treatment, but it seems as though the facilities do not charge the patients. The facilities obviously want to be reimbursed, but after reading this article, I inferred the fact that the facilities assume the patient can't or won't pay so they just send them on their way. It is easy to be outraged when you or your country is being treated unfairly; however, as Americans, we need to understand that some of our fellow citizens are on the reversed side of the situation in other countries. It does seem unfair that there are many Americans living without health care or are in debt, and illegal immigrants are occupying our own facilities. These kinds of situations should be a concern for the government, who should try to make efforts to reduce the number of immigrants using the American facilities and amount of money the facilities are spending on the illegal immigrants. I still think that immigrants should be seen simply because its a “what goes around comes around” type of situation to our other fellow Americans living abroad.
My reaction to this video and blog was harsh. Sitting here now I’m struggling to choose from all the thoughts that are going through my head to argue for why this is so undeniably wrong because it is just so blatantly obvious to me. I really can’t see how anyone would defend an opposition to this woman’s testimony. Of course I would never suggest that we are to leave these millions of uninsured, illegal immigrants to die when they are in need of care. That has never even been an issue. Every human being - whether a legal citizen, illegal citizen, or mass murderer on death row - has a right to be treated when they are sick or in need of immediate health care. That’s a given. I’m also all-for legal immigration. The more the merrier. My family immigrated here just two generations ago and if it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t exist. But to migrate illegally to another country and obtain health care from the government run hospitals (funded by those who are legal residents of that country – any country – not just the US) and then expect that government and the tax paying citizens to foot the bill? That, to me, is a selfish crime. The people who suffer here because of these crimes are American poor and minorities. Let’s remember that the few cases that this woman in the video is talking about are not rare occurrences. There are tens of millions of illegal immigrants living in this country, and over a billion dollars each year are spent on their medical bills. I don’t know why it isn’t viewed as theft. It is an indisputable fact that uninsured, illegal immigrants in the US are driving up the number of legal citizens without health care, and I think that something should be done about it.
As a future teacher, there’s something that keeps coming up in my mind as I think this over. What about the illegal immigrants’ children who attend publicly funded schools? American taxpayers’ hard earned money goes towards educating these children, maybe even more money than that which goes towards health care. I guess that because I have a soft spot for children, I’m not as passionate about my feelings of anger towards the injustices of illegal immigrants when it comes to their children’s education, although it’s just as big of a problem. Right now, public schools throughout the country are facing some of the most significant decreases in funding in decades, while illegal immigration and the need for education is at an all-time high. These immigrants aren’t just causing a huge problem for our health care system, the effects are also staggering in our country’s education system.
So something definitely needs to be done. We obviously can’t refuse to treat sick people or deny children of our communities an education in our public schools. My thought is that, unless we’re taking measures in preventing illegal immigration, it’s our own fault. If we step aside and allow these people to come here illegally and take advantage of the taxpayers here – in all aspects, not just health care – then we can’t complain about it. Of course it’s a huge burden to our society and we definitely don’t need any extra burdens in this current crisis, but as long as we allow these illegal practices to take place, there really is no plausible solution.
The prices of healthcare are going up quickly. Along with this increase, the number of people in the United States who cannot afford health care and are left uninsured is increasing as well. It is hard to say what is right about illegal immigrants receiving the benefits of health care without even paying.
One side of the argument is the fact that these people do not pay for healthcare and it is not fair to the majority of Americans who do pay, to cover the costs of these people. The unpaid hospital bills and medicine fees all add up and place our country’s healthcare system in huge debt. Someone has to pay it back, which is a main reason why healthcare is so costly. If the bills are left unpaid and people are receiving the benefits of healthcare without actually paying for this insurance, the quality of medical assistance in our country will definitely weaken. If there is not enough money coming in, our country’s ill patients will not be receiving five star care.
On the other hand, these immigrants, although illegal, are undoubtedly human. They need assistance when they are sick, just like the rest of us. It is immoral and heartbreaking to think that someone could be turned away from a hospital and left to die just because they do not have health insurance. Sam made an extremely interesting point about Americans using the health care benefits in other countries as well. So many American citizens are currently residing in foreign countries. If these Americans need immediate surgery, medication, or medical assistance- who do you think is paying for it? Most foreign countries cover the cost without even thinking twice of it being unfair. Sam’s experience with his appendix removed in Mexico just shows the kindness and concern of other countries about our health. All he was asked for in return for the surgery was a donation of a pint of blood. It seems to me that our country is being extremely hypocritical and needs to sit back and take a look from the other side of the argument.
It is ironic because American is one of the few countries who does not have free healthcare for every citizen. The only way to solve this problem would be to have a universal healthcare program where the medical assistance is publicly funded. Unfortunately, this would be a far goal for our country to reach and we would have to allow a lot of time and before we saw anything close to free healthcare in our country. Most developed and advanced countries have a universal healthcare system in which the people receive medical assistance along with their citizenship. So, why can’t the United States?
I’m going to have to side with Sam on this one. I think he brings up a lot of solid points when he talks about all the Americans who live in other foreign countries, many of which while living there are provided free Health Care. Sure some of us pay larger amounts of money because of it, but when it boils down to it, should we deny this person their right to live simply because they are an illegal immigrant and don’t have the money or the Health insurance to cover the necessary procedures to keep them alive? I’m willing to bet that almost all of the people who agree with this woman who made the points on the video would make another video in outrage if an American was denied help in another country because he or she did not have proper insurance or money. Like Sam said, half the costs are extremely inflated anyhow, I mean twenty dollars for a bag of ice?! That is just absurd. The main purpose of Hospitals should be to treat and help cure patients, not make a profit. I like the idea of having them donate a pint of blood in return for their treatment. We try to get millions of people across the country to donate blood every year in blood drives. If this issue is such a big problem and if there are so many of illegal aliens in our hospitals racking up insanely huge medical bills, then we should have no problem getting a lot of blood donations if we have them donate a pint of blood each. This could be one benefit we could swing out of this problem if we so choose. I also think that these are cases on the extremely expensive side of the spectrum, she leads us to believe that there are thousands of other foreigners racking up medical bills like these across our country. However, what I would like to see are some actually dollar figures. In these figures I want to see the actual increase in taxes that people pay because of these people “taking advantage” of our medical care. I’d like to see taxes if there were no outstanding foreign medical bills and next to it, I’d like to see the numbers from today, just to get an idea of how badly people are being affected. I’d also like to see the amount of foreigners with outstanding bills next to the amount of Americans with outstanding bills to see if foreigners are really the problem with this situation. I think there are a lot of other variables that other then the foreigners racking up outstanding medical bills that have lead to the inflation of our health care taxes.
As I watched the video I really was getting a little mad at immigrants taking advantage of free health care when so many American citizens have trouble paying for healthcare. As I continued reading the blog I did not realize how many Americans do not live in the United States and receive health care from foreign tax payers for no trouble at all. First off I do not know much about health care besides the fact that it is an ongoing, troubling issue in the United States and second I do not know anything about health care in foreign countries. I have not heard about countries where Americans live having problems with their health care which leads me to believe those countries do not have problems with it unlike the United States. I believe because it is such a big problem in the United States that our citizens should be taken care of first. The government has a responsibility to do so and it has tried by creating the system we have today even if it fails to take care of everyone. We should treat emergencies that illegal immigrants have but to keep them for over two years is not fair for an American who cannot be admitted just because their insurance cannot cover it. Each country should take care of their citizen’s health care before giving it out to illegal immigrants for free. If the illegal immigrants are paid for, for a long period of time it should not be American citizens paying for them but the government should. Hospitals should definitely be reimbursed some amount by our government or the government of the illegal immigrant’s home country. But I understand that second source of reimbursement would be very hard to receive. If the government of the illegal citizen will not reimburse a United States hospital they should at least take back their citizen and treat them as well. If the United States can admit one of their citizens for two year they should be able to take the citizen back into their country and finish the treatment.
However I guess American citizens may be doing the same thing illegal immigrants are doing here. That is living in a country where they believe they will be taken care of by the government or whomever easily and affordable. In this case it is hypocritical to say the United States cannot give out free healthcare to illegal immigrants while Americans are being taken care of elsewhere in the world. All I know is the United States needs to figure out a new health care system where these types of problems will not exist. But a new health care system will not happen overnight.
I did not actually realize that these immigrants were using our money to get help in hospitals. I thought that people still had to pay regardless of health care or living in our country. So personally after reading this, I think it is ridiculous that our government does not make any effort to stop these illegal immigrants or penalize them when they are reported as illegal. So they did not commit a crime, yet look at what we call them; illegal, meaning against the law! It’s bogus that these people who do not live in our country and are not supposed to be here are receiving medical help and not paying for it. I understand that the hospitals’ jobs are to take care of sick patients, and I’m not asking for the immigrants to be left dead. Yet, it’s crazy that they get help, basically for free, while the rest of us are paying so much money. I know I’m probably sounding like a self-centered American. I understand that in other countries, they are willing to help sick Americans for a low cost, but I’m not planning on being one of those Americans living in another country. Yeah, that’s an awful attitude to have, the whole “it doesn’t affect me so I don’t care” mentality. I come from a town that is very diverse and has a large population of illegal immigrants. In my high school alone, there were at least ten girls per year getting pregnant to have babies in order to stay in the country. IN order for them to give birth to their children, they have to use our hospitals, which most of them don’t have the money for. So they have their kids and we pay for them. I find it somewhat of a cop out. We have to pay for these women to have kids so they can stay in OUR country while WE pay for their bills. I find it unfair. However, I know that hospitals aren’t going to turn down a dying patient or a woman who is having a baby. It’s unrealistic and unjust.
However, thinking on the other side of the argument, I know that if I were in another country and needed to be helped, I would be mad as anything if I got turned down because I wasn’t a citizen. If I did get helped and treated, though, I would expect to someway be billed for it and to pay for getting helped. It’s a little absurd that our country is allowing this to go on. There has to be something we could do to at least charge them for services. As awful as it sounds, I’m going to be earning my money and I don’t want to have to pay for someone else’s medical bills when I’m going to have my own bills to pay.
After reading the entire blog response by Sam, I’m going to be honest, I had no idea that this was going on in our country. At first I was enraged and thought ‘of course illegal immigrants benefitting from yet another American luxury of good health care.’ I am not an ignorant person, or would hope that people don’t see me that way, but I am learning to be honest in this class and that is exactly what I thought. After reading further, which I wouldn’t have done if I was reading a news article on AOL news or something like that, my eyes were opened and I almost immediately related to the examples given by Sam. First off, my cousin Matt has been living in Italy for the past 8 years, after he graduated from NYU he decided to travel, and never returned. With his undergraduate from Penn and masters degree from NYU Matt is now a dog walker and gives tours occasionally. Thinking about Matt’s situation, besides the fact that he is way too smart to be doing what he is doing, I know that he definitely does not have health insurance, let alone a substantial income to live the life he leads. He’s very lucky to have my aunt and uncle…let’s just say that. So now, with my cousin in the back of my mind (I know it’s sad I need to use close to me examples to fully relate to a story) I began to think. If Matt gets sick, or if he perhaps falls and gets a nasty cut from walking dogs, what does he do? I have never asked him about this but now that it has been brought to my attention I would love to know. I do agree that if someone is in immediate need of help that they definitely should be helped, no matter what the cost. But at the same time, I must think, wow my mom and dad both work full time jobs so my family can have healthcare while these immigrants are receiving benefits that my parents have to work very hard for. It’s really hard for me to accept because my dad has worked hard for our family to get it to the place it is today. He paid for his own college and has been on his own since he was 18. He raised my sister and I to never depend on anyone but ourselves, so I must think, why do these people feel as if they can depend on my family to keep them healthy. I guess it will have to be an on-going fight with myself because I am so torn on this issue. If I am in Mexico, or my cousin Matt is in Italy and needs health care, yeah I want it. But if an immigrant keeps mooching off of our services, I don’t know how I feel about it. Call me selfish but I’ll have to get back to you on this one.
I’m no expert on hospital bills and health insurance and all the ins and outs of the health care business, however, I can still read this article and point out what seem to me to be some fairly obvious flaws in reasoning and a bit of faulty logic. First and foremost, the entire blog entry seems to focus on the fact that free healthcare should be provided to illegal aliens in America, if only for the simple reason that foreign countries are providing healthcare to American citizens living abroad. While I can (sort of) understand this position, I however do not agree with the statement that “we probably should assume” that half of the four million American citizens living abroad make up a “large number of people [who] are uninsured”. Where are the true statistics for this figure? How do we know for sure that roughly two million Americans living permanently in foreign countries have no health insurance? There is no guarantee that just because these Americans became fed up with life in the United States and decided to take up residency abroad that that means they are all “uninsured, freewheeling expats”. Sure, some of them probably are--but where is the hard evidence that the majority or even half of these Americans have no health insurance? Until I see the results of research studies and statistical facts, I won’t follow this line of logic any further.
Another bit of reasoning I don’t agree with follows the story Dr. Richards tells of the emergency appendectomy he had in Mexico that he paid for with a pint of blood. Okay, I agree, that seems pretty nice of those doctors in Mexico City--however, if you watch the video, it becomes apparent that the major complaint American hospitals have is the money spent on patients who are undergoing “ongoing care” --such as for brain damage or kidney dialysis, as the woman mentions in the video. These patients are obviously going to run up a higher hospital bill than someone who is admitted as an emergency situation and who will only stay in the hospital for a short period. In fact, in the video, it is mentioned that the hospitals wouldn’t think of turning away an emergency--it is patients who need ongoing care where the real problems begin. So maybe it isn’t so farfetched to assume that a pint of blood will pay for an emergency appendectomy and a three day hospital stay in Mexico City--especially if you take into account the possibility that perhaps blood supplies are low at the hospital and in high demand, or the difference in health care costs between Mexico and the United States, or any of the other myriad of possibilities that may make paying with a blood donation reasonable. I’m sure that other countries really are paying for many uninsured Americans living abroad--but maybe the majority of these cases where there are little complaints by the foreign hospitals only involve emergencies and short-term hospital stays as well.
Lastly, I must say that I agree with any hospital that chooses to send an illegal patient back to their own country--there is no reason that citizens of the United States (or citizens of any country, for that matter) should have to pay for the health care of someone who is not even a fellow countryman. So this goes for foreign countries as well--if they have American citizens living without health insurance in their countries and those people end up in their hospitals, I would totally agree with and even recommend that they send these Americans back to the United States immediately. There is no reason that people of a foreign country should have to pay the costs of health care for one of our citizens, and no reason we should be paying for one of theirs, either.
So I read all the way through this and thought about the arguments presented in favor of these people and I strongly agree that it is not fair that these people receive medical treatment here and then get a free ride home and get to skip the bill. Imagine if an American citizen did that? I sincerely doubt that you’d get away with it. You can’t pay the bill anymore they’re either going to kick you and I can bet that since you don’t live out of the country you’ll pay for that trip home. Maybe if you’re lucky you’ll get dumped in a clinic somewhere. But if you just kicked a foreigner out on the street you’d be called out for being hateful towards their native country. Americans get bounced out of hospitals all the time for not having insurance and not being able to care for healthcare costs.
On the topic of the price and inflation of our healthcare I agree it sucks. But I almost think it needs to be to a point. Within you’re friends and family how many hypochondriacs can you name? Probably at least one. These people visit the doctor constantly because they think they’re sick and probably terrified of germs and people around that are sick. I’m sure that these people contribute to the rising cost of healthcare. I’m sure some hospitals have to drive up the costs of some medicines so that they’re not as easily accessible to people that don’t really need them. Or drive up the costs to cause some drug dealers to drop out because they can’t afford them anymore. A few people always seem to ruin it for everyone else. I’m not at all saying that germ freaks are the reason that our healthcare costs are so high but I’m sure they’re not helping.
Lastly I want talk about these countries that have government subsidized are provided health care. Let’s look at Canada. Most people when they think of Canada’s health care system they think of what a complete mess is it. I just recently read an article about a Canadian women who was diagnosed with a brain tumor. The government told this woman that she would have to wait 6 months to see a neurologist about her tumor. The woman who was rapidly loosing her vision to the tumor went to a clinic in Arizona where the doctors ran tests and told her that she needed surgery right away. She went home thinking that this would persuade the healthcare committee that she needed urgent surgery. They remain with their original decision that she would have to wait. The woman eventually felt she had no choice and had to pay money out of pocket for the surgery that she had at the clinic in Arizona. Canada is supposed to provide healthcare for its 33 million people but apparently on their time not by the need of the patients. Does this sound like a developed first world country? No. So yea Americans may be using foreign health care but I doubt many people like paying for them to use it either. Maybe these countries should be worrying about the health care for their own citizens instead of ours.
In response to, “Those Undocumented Thieves,” I do find it amazing that the family of the illegal Guatemalan is actually pursuing a lawsuit against the state. The US has a heath care system in which we, the taxpayers (legal citizens), pay into the system through a tax and then have the option to have our health care insured by paying into a particular health care insurance company, allowing that company to cover a percentage of the costs. Millions of our own legal residents each year are unable to pay the costs of their health care, even with the support of certain federally and state funded programs (eg. Medicaid, Medicare). Because the US system is required to treat anyone and everyone regardless of the financial/residence/uninsured status, we the taxpayers as well as the limited hospital funds must cover the costs. This has led to several major hospitals closing, including a major general hospital in DC in 2000. This, of course, is a huge problem.
Dr. Richards would like to see someone add up the total health care costs of Americans who are living abroad that are paid by foreign taxpayers and compare the cost to that in the US. That cost would not touch what the US pays. The reason being: all of the country examples he gave (Ireland, Canada, and Mexico to some extent) have universal health care systems so it is often entirely funded by the state and the taxpayers pay close to nothing for their health care anyway. When an American is living on the Cliffs of Moher on the west coast of Ireland and is suddenly stricken with pneumonia, of course the locals don’t just let him die because it costs them nothing anyway. Even if a particular system is set up in such a way that taxpayers do pay the cost of free health care for all, the cost is built into the economy so that all people get an equal right to the health care. For the Guatemalan family to sue the state after spending 1.5 million dollars on a single person over a two-year plus time as well as the $30,000 cost to fly him back to his country is insane. They should grateful that he was ever given the opportunity to be treated in the first place. I have always a huge proponent for shutting down the divide between the “us” and “them” ideology so I want to make clear that my argument has nothing to do with the fact that this man was an illegal alien. The argument would hold for any normal taxpaying citizen. Obviously our health care system could be better but instead of suing the state and making us pay out even more money, why not just be grateful that the hospital spent enough money on a single person to feed an entire town Guatemala for twenty years.
This issue of health care and illegal immigrants is a difficult and sticky one. Listening to the video it did strike a nerve to hear that we as taxpayers are responsible for hospital fees of people that are not citizens of this country and are not responsible for paying taxes or their own hospital bills. It is easy to get wrapped up into one side of the story, as Sam said, when only one side is presented and defended. I would not have ever considered United States citizens living in other countries receiving medical care at not cost. The whole health care system seems terribly flawed, but how are we supposed to fix this problem? I do not have the answer to this problem and I am not sure that anyone will in the near future. These problems have been taking place for some time and this is not something that can be fixed over night. It is sad to think though that for a country that prides itself in being the best and most advanced that we have such an enormous problem and one that we so often lay blame on others when the opportunity presents itself.
The story Sam shared about only being asked to donate a pint of blood in exchange for surgery is an amazing one and one that shows great generosity of another person. I hate to say that I could never imagine that happening in a hospital in the US. What does that say about us? That we are more advanced and people value our care more? That we are greedy and would never give away care for next to nothing?
Thinking about the bag of ice that cost twenty dollars really says a lot. Realizing how little that shocked me also says a lot which is so sad. It is not a question that there is something terribly wrong going on, but who is going to fix it and how it is going to be done is still unknown, but something that needs to be figured out soon or else the future of our country could be in even more danger than it is now. People need and deserved health care. No one should be denied the right to receive help just because they are do not make enough to afford what it offered when they are doing all that they can to survive. But I also understand that we, tax payers, cannot and should not be responsible to pay for others when we may be doing all that we can to get by while affording health care. It’s a difficult debate going back and forth between wanting to help everyone but also being realistic in what we can expect from people. It will be interesting to see what happens with this issue.
After watching the youtube video of the women who was representing the Florida hospital about the care that they had delivered to illegal aliens, it really made me angry to hear about the money that this hospital was spending to treat these illegal aliens. Health care in this country is very expensive in that there are some individuals in this country that may be living in poverty or are unemployed that do not have health care and are unable to go to the doctors when they become serious ill. If an individual would go to the hospital if they were sick sometimes the doctor will try to treat them but will not give them the proper care that is needed, because the doctors know they would be losing money for the hospital. In American we are refusing to treat our fellow American citizens who are paying taxes and putting money in our nation’s economy, but why is it that we should feel obligated to treat illegal aliens without being reimbursed. With the way our current economic status is going individuals that are lucky enough to keep their job cannot afford to pay increased medical care that would help cover the cost of these illegal aliens. I think that what this Florida Hospital was doing by deported these individuals back to their home country was the right thing to do and I think that the other countries should agree to take them back without any argument. Also in this video clip I was angry that the hospitals represented said that the illegal alien’s family became upset that the hospital was sending their family member back to their original country. If this individual had family in this country together the family should have come up with some of the money to help pay for the medical expenses.
I think that Sam brought up a good point about the American citizens that are living in different countries around the world that are receiving health care without paying the doctors for their services. Even through they are fellow Americans I still do not think that this is the right thing. They are no better then the illegal aliens that are coming to the United States from poverty stricken countries. This actually upsets me that American citizens are doing this because the United States is know for being one of the best countries to live in for its freedom and every day more and more people want to become American citizens. I think that we need to set an example to the other countries that we need to be respectful guests in foreign country. I think that the United States should develop some kind or program or procedure that is used when an illegal alien needs to be treated and how much money they can spend on these individuals before it becomes a burden on the hospital and the nation’s economy. Then this program can be used in other countries to prevent this from happening.
While many people in other countries around the world, whether they be residents of that country or ex-patriots from America, have access to universal health care, the healthcare system in America does not function this way. If our government had a universal health care system where every person’s tax dollars went partially to fund health care and we didn’t have to buy private insurance or go uninsured, it would be much easier to allow non residents to receive services here without costing the provider a large amount of money out of pocket.
Since we don’t have the luxury of having health care included in our tax costs, we are forced to pay for our own health care, and since hospitals do not refuse patients who come into the emergency room, regardless of their legal status in this country, someone has to absorb those costs since the tax dollars are not covering it. The example given in the blog about an American living in Ireland who goes into the hospital and does not have to pay for the services, well since the Irish and many other European countries provide health care for residents and legal visitors the person who gets sick and receives care in an Irish hospital was in the right place at the right time. Since we have to pay our own way here in the United States, someone other than the federal government must cover the costs of that health care, and it usually ends up being the hospital who administered the care in the case of an illegal immigrant as we saw in this video.
I think our government is also to blame for doing nothing about this problem. As the woman in the video said, the hospital reported to immigration officials that they had illegal immigrants in the hospital, but immigration wouldn’t do anything about them unless they were committing a crime. So the government says they are cracking down on illegal immigration but when they have the opportunity to apprehend illegal immigrants they do nothing about it. This is simply stupidity on the part of immigration officials.
If hospitals were reimbursed by the government for care they provided to people who did not pay their bills, whether they be illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, or people without insurance who could not cover their care, this would alleviate some of the pressure on hospitals. However, since the government wants to ignore the illegal immigration problem and doesn’t care enough about illegal immigrants usurping services for free, they aren’t going to reimburse the hospitals either because this would be acknowledgement that there is a problem with illegal immigration and it can’t simply be ignored unless “a crime is committed” by these illegal’s.
At first when I watched the video I could not believe that the government was turning away the hospitals calls about emigration transporting and how much money we have to pay for these people. I thought that was ridiculous and began thinking that we shouldn’t accept them if they do not have any insurance at all! But then I kept reading and Sam is right, if on my trip to Spain and Italy a few trips back I fell and broke an ankle or something I would go to the local hospital expecting them to help me. So I was being hypocritical at first and had to stop and really think about this. In my econ class last semester we watched a Dateline video (I believe) about health care systems around the world. It showed how much better other countries health care and insurance are much, much better than the United States. Our costs are inflated our doctor’s want more and more for their services. I believe it was in Germany in the video where they said you do not become a doctor here if you want to be rich; I thought that was crazy because that’s exactly what you become in the United States if you want to be rich. But then again that bring me back to the idea that there is a way for United States citizens to not have to pay as much as we do for our healthcare and even other countries have figured out ways that their citizens do not have to go into debt with healthcare bills. So why can’t the United States figure this out? Why can’t we not have to pay for a simply checkup, or like in China I believe it was, they can get as many MRI’s and X-rays as they would like. It has become a custom for their citizens to get an MRI almost every year, yet we have to pay thousands to get one done! So then I get frustrated with the fact that I have to pay for others expenses, when I know there is a way that everyone can get help without the cost going to everyone else. This is just an idea but maybe since other countries healthcare is so much better and up to date, why don’t the other countries pay the bills that their citizens have in other countries. Of course we would have to do the same for our American citizens in other countries, but it would be as if everyone is accountable for their own citizens. It only seems fair? Healthcare is a huge issue around the world, and especially in the United States with its’ inflated costs and our country going through an economic crisis right now, so it would be natural that the hospital would be asking for huge amounts of money. Our healthcare system just seems a mess to me!
Healthcare is a major problem in this country and the rising prices keep many well deserving Americans out of having medical coverage and care. Yet the thought of illegal immigrants using American hospitals for care and not paying a cent does not bother me at all. Sam showed an instance where he was in Mexico and had to have a procedure done on him, where his health was seriously in jeopardy. Instead of the Mexicans complaining about costs or getting reimbursed they said it was just their jobs and civil duty, and for Sam to only donate a pint of blood. My feeling is that if a hospital in an impoverished area can be at peace by letting an American man with money get surgery for free, then I think that an American hospital with plenty of resources and finances can deal with helping illegal immigrants who truly need help. I understand that many Americans are paying outrageous healthcare bills that are sometimes going towards these illegal immigrants who don’t deserve the care but honestly what other choice do you have? You cannot turn these people away when they need help. I would also like to think that if you were in another country and needed help the citizens of that country would take you in and help you too.
I feel like people here are quick to judge and don’t look at the big picture or put themselves in a different perspective. Like we always do in class, being put in a different mindset, we can see how different people think and learn to not judge or be ethnocentric. I feel like this case in Florida is the result of ethnocentrism and how ignorant people act when things don’t always go their way. If the woman testifying against the illegal immigrants was in a different position maybe she could realize that there are more important issues here than just money: what if she was living in Mexico and had to support her family, yet to do so she had to live illegally in America. She works long hours doing manual labor and has no other choice than to work all day. This woman, working for her family, then breaks her arm while working. What if this woman had to be hospitalized but was turned down at the door because she was an illegal immigrant? That wouldn’t just affect this woman; it would also affect the rest of her family back in Mexico. So what I’m saying is that if this woman who is trying to prosecute illegal immigrants suddenly had her role switched to becoming the poor immigrant who desperately needed help yet was turned down, would she still be up on the stand in court? I doubt it. I think if she were put in different shoes, she would see that in many of these cases, the illegal immigrants truly need help and that American hospitals should provide them this help and not expect to be reimbursed by those who don’t have the money to pay.
My first reaction to this blog was a little bit of anger because I didn’t realize that this was an issue, as most United States citizens would have been angry as well. I didn’t understand why any illegal immigrant should be given health care over actual United State citizens that can’t afford certain health care. Health care has been an ongoing issue in this country, making it one of the highest priorities during the presidential campaign and also a popular topic to discuss in general. As health care costs have been continually rising many citizens can’t even afford to get the necessary medicines or medical care that is necessary for themselves. So how can we say it is fair that these immigrants are costing the United States millions of dollars to get their medical bills paid for when many citizens of the U.S. can’t afford the same procedures? It’s a simple answer to me now. Hospitals cannot refuse to attend to these patients but they shouldn’t be allowed to refuse to attend to these patients. There isn’t many humane human beings that would just watch someone die without doing anything they could to help that person, no matter if they were a citizen or not. These immigrants came here for more opportunities and are probably creating a life off of very little here as it is, so getting there money would be out of the question anyways. Now do I think it is fair? No, something needs to be changed within this system, but as of now no one has the answer or it would have been done already. As Sam said, U.S. citizens are doing the same thing in the different countries that they are living in. It is unfair that most of us are not reaping the benefits but mostly suffering the consequences of the illegal immigrants using our medical centers. But something to consider when you or other people get angry about this is that our citizens are racking up quite the bills over in other countries as well. So until there is a system that can take care of this issue for both sides, I do not think anyone has the right to point fingers. Hopefully in the near future some law will be passed that will terminate this issue. After reading the whole blog I really just wasn’t angry anymore because everything makes sense. If anything we as citizens should be angry about how much money we pay for health care because many of our own citizens can’t even afford to get the care they need and deserve. To be honest I think even if this issue was resolved I don’t think we would notice a difference in how much we pay for taxes anyways, they would just take all of our money and use it for something else, so at least now some of it is used to save lives.
Regarding the blog “Those Undocumented Thieves?” I have mixed views. The first thing I think is that this should not be happening when there are so many legal U.S. citizens who cannot afford health care and are racking up thousands of dollars in debt that they may never be able to pay back in their lifetimes, but after reading Sam’s points, it is true that we must always look at the other side. I don’t have it in me as a person to not feel compassionate for the Guatemalan man who needed treatment who was then sent back to his country, which is very, very poor. However, the law is the law and if he isn’t a United States citizen he is reaping the benefits of something that so many people who obey the law don’t have the ability to benefit from. Also, it’s so sad that all the Mexico City hospital asked Sam for was a pint of blood. These poor people are living in such poverty that they would take that in exchange to an emergency appendectomy. Although it is not our fault that Mexico is in the state it is in, it’s not the fault of the majority of these citizens that they were born into that extreme poverty and don’t see the any way out. Although our health costs are inflated, it’s still a shame that these hospitals are having the burden of all of this money, which is having such an effect on so many American citizens. This is especially true right now with the state that our economy is in. Although we have a very prosperous country speaking broadly, we don’t have millions of dollars to share right now. Thousands of cancer patients, and those needing organs, and for every person suffering another health dilemmas have trouble paying for their bills, even if they have insurance. It truly is such a sticky situation because how can you turn away someone who is dying just because that person is not a legal citizen of the U.S? Maybe that’s the price that we pay for living a more comfortable lifestyle than most people in the world. I think many U.S. citizens take their lives for granted and don’t understand just how fortunate we are to even be born in this country. The fact of the matter is, these people are risking their lives just to run across the border and get into this country. These are people who dream of living in the United States and escaping their lives full of poverty and violence and for many, fear. So I agree that although instances like this are not right, we have to put ourselves in the shoes of these other people who don’t live like we do. And we have to remember that not all Americans are innocent either, and some reap the benefits of other countries, as well.
I am actually sick to my stomach right now to hear about these illegal immigrants and how they pay for no medical costs. It is terribly upsetting. They are ILLEGAL, and they are getting top of the line services (for the most part I believe we are very lucky for our resources in medicine) for free? Each and every person who is a U.S. citizen should be angry- and this is coming from a girl who is the best of friends and roommates with a girl who is living in the U.S. from Mexico on her Green Card. I like to think of myself as a very patriotic person, and the fact of the matter is, if it came down to helping an illegal immigrant or helping a U.S. citizen-your brother, my sister, your best friend, my father, your mother- free of charge, I am going to help out the U.S. citizen.
45 million Americans are uninsured right now, my sister being one of them. Because she is a college graduate working as a waitress and not a student, she is no longer insured by my father’s company. Do I sympathize for those who are in need of medical assistance? Of course I do. I see the pain it inflicts on her, and it saddens me. Do I want to help as many people out as possible to save a life? Sure I do. But, let’s be honest here. We all can’t be Joan of Arc. We can’t be a martyr all the time. People are going to suffer. It is inevitable. There is only so much we can do as human beings. What really angers me about this class is that I get it. I totally understand that there are impoverished people and there are slaves. It sucks, and I really do wish I could help them by giving them food, clothing, medical aid, or water. But, I know people, such as my family, that are struggling too. Maybe in some people’s eyes the conditions that I am going through aren’t comparable to what these illegal immigrants go through, but I like to think my parents aren’t each working two jobs in vein. Millions upon millions of Americans live in poverty. Just because they are labeled as an “American” we expect them to pay full on costs for medical needs when they can’t even pay for groceries or their mortgage? I know we all want to help, but shouldn’t we be concerned on our own American issues first?
I know so many people who refuse to have a regular check up with a physician or a dentist because they can’t afford it. Again, my sister is one of them. She just had an infected finger, and she didn’t go to the doctor until she absolutely had to because she couldn’t afford it. And when she did go, she ended up paying $50 just for five minutes in the room. This is not including the amount she had to spend on her prescriptions. It just really irritates me that people and other countries expect America to do all this stuff for them just because we are America. Yet, half of the time they bitch and moan that we get involved in their private affairs. They insult Americans and our leaders (although sometimes they need a good kick in the ass). And yet, we are still supposed to help them. Make up your damn mind people.
I love helping others. I’ve probably said this about ten times, and I think that we should help people- but not for free. At least not when so many of our own “people” don’t even get that kind of opportunity. I’m going to bet it is safe to say that Sam has some pretty nice health benefits by being a professor here at Penn State. It was a coincidence that he had to have the surgery while out of the country. Had that happened here in State College, you better believe his insurance would have covered most of it, and he would have had a co-pay. Nothing in life is for free. Even Sam had to give something for his surgery. Maybe it isn’t as valuable to us Americans as money, but there was still a price. These illegal immigrants are getting a full ride- and I mean that literally since they get sent back home for free. It is time that our government takes action and not only do something about this problem with healthcare but do something about illegal immigrants in general.
Healthcare is an issue that needs to be addressed eventually. I do not care who does it, but somebody better get off of their rear end and fix it before it becomes as big of an issue as the current economic situation. With that said, I am definitely surprised by how much money we are spending to take care of illegal immigrants who come to our country’s hospitals. I realize that it is cruel to deny them treatment, but where do you draw the line? We have millions of American citizens who avoid even going to the hospital or doctor’s office because they know they do not have the money to pay the mounting medical costs. On the other hand, we have these illegal immigrants who come to our country, use our medical resources, and then just leave with no questions asked?
Yes, you can say that this happens with American citizens who live in other countries, but I am pretty sure that most of them are there legally. They most likely are there with some sort of documentation, whether it be a visa or otherwise. In the case of the illegal immigrants, they simply come to our country, take advantage of the well-known, health care, and then jet on back to wherever they came from. There are some circumstances where I can understand someone going and getting medical attention in another country, such as a illness or injury during a vacation. However, these immigrants are not here on vacation. They are living in our country without properly filing for any documentation, so what gives them the right to receive free of charge health care, a service that needs to be given to American citizens before extended to people who do not even live in this country?
With the country in the tough economic situation that we are in, we need to realize where our money may simply be going down the drain. This is most certainly one of those cases. One and a half million dollars here and there adds up to a large amount of money, money that is not even being spent to better our own citizens. This is a significant sum of money that is pretty much be flushed down the toilet. We do not see any benefits from the spending, and it is financially hurting us as a country. We cannot be responsible for taking on the medical care of citizens of other countries, when there is such a healthcare issue in our own country. We need to be putting our own citizens who have no health insurance on the top of the priority list when it comes to this issue. We have already spent money that could have made a significant difference in the healthcare received by American citizens.
Ignorance and Greed.
Every blog I read for this class, I become more and more aware of this heinous world we live in. Honestly, really? This video made me furious and excuse me if I get a little heated here but why does this country have to continuously think we are so much better than everyone else? I feel having this stereotype upon us is doing nothing but making things worse. Not only do we need to keep our noses out of everyone else’s business but we need to stop and listen to ourselves before criticizing others. It comes down to having the same respect for other countries that we have with each other. For example, I don’t like it when people I don’t know supposedly “hate me” even though they never physically met me. Hmm sounds a bit like the role we play with Iraq. We “hate them” but do we know anything about them? Also do you or I like it when people we don’t know tell us what to do because it’s the “right” way? Of course not. It’s all very simplistic.
In regards to the video, it is absolutely absurd to sit here and pout about how we have illegal immigrants in hospitals and we are not getting reimbursed. Money! Money! Money! That is all that this country is concerned about. Going back to Sam’s example in Mexico where all they asked of him was a pint of blood! That is actually a relief to hear that people like this even seize to exist! I bet people in Mexico are a lot more content as well because not everything revolves around the $1 there.
Now I know the Healthcare system in the U.S. is a huge ongoing problem. But putting blame on sick illegal immigrants is not the solution. We can nick pick this and that and come up with 101 reasons why we are losing money. However, the U.S. chooses to target illegal immigrants, which does not surprise me. Of course we are going to blame anyone but ourselves. We may be the wealthiest country but I believe we are the most selfish as well which in turn makes us un-wealthy. And personally, I would rather give the last dollar I had to a homeless man than keep it for myself and buy a winning lottery ticket. That is the honest truth and I wish our country was made up of people less selfish. Take a look at the people that run our government. They are politicians. They are about money and they are about themselves. And it is they who are running our government. I cannot say this for all the Presidents for example Abraham Lincoln, however, congress are the ones who make most of our decisions thus my point stands.
I guess all I’m trying to convey is yes, it is disturbing how we treat others who come into our country compared to the way we are treated in theirs in regards to the Healthcare system; but I think the real issue lies in greed. Not saying it will eliminate the problems in the U.S. if we someday overcome this, but the realization may begin to reveal selfish acts that are seen as acts of kindness through the eyes of our government. After all, it is those small selfless groups of people who tend to change the world.
After watching this clip on healthcare in the US, I am shocked. This is brand new information to me, and my initial reaction was outrage. Nothing let me think that it was alright for illegal immigrants from other countries, to come into hospitals and get treated basically for free, while all of the U.S. citizens have to pay for health care. These are large amounts of money that hospitals are paying to save the lives and these illegal immigrants, and initially I thought this is completely wrong, something needs to change immediately. Isn't there a system or policy, or something to fix this? There has to be.
But then I looked at it from the point of view from an illegal immigrant in the United States. Here I am, an illegal immigrant, with, I'll say, a gun shot wound at a hospital in the United States of America. What can the hospital do? It has to treat me. I deserve to be treated, to have my life saved, or at least attempted to be saved. The country just wouldn't let me die? It couldn't.
And I totally agree with that. How could the United States just let someone die, or not treat a person. It can not happen. It will not happen. It should not happen. So what is to be done? Something has to be done, right? I thought about it, and came up with maybe a universal health care system, where everyone in America pays a certain amount of money for health care. No more private insurances or policies. I mean, that's kind of a stretch, and it doesn't seem like that is going to happen. But other that than, I'm completely stumped. I can not think of any other possible solutions or ways to fix this. This is a very tough situation.
And then, I read Sam's point of view, a third view of the matter. I had not thought about this perspective at all, and it was by far the most intriguing view of them all. There are many people that ARE U.S. citizens that are living in other countries all over the world, that get treated virtually without pay as well, the same way we are treating illegal immigrants in the U.S., these other countries are treating us. So it kinda comes back around, I guess? I mean individually, knowing that other Americans get treated in other countries the way we treat illegal immigrants here, does not really affect or benefit me personally at all. But unless we can think of a solution or some kind of way to solve this problem, it's what we have to remember that will prevent us from being so upset about the matter. We must know that there are America citizens that are getting treated in other countries as well. It might not be the best compensation, but essentially, it is all we have.
I believe there are actually two issues written about in this blog: illegal immigration and the United States health care system. I have my own opinions on both matters although my opinion on the health care system is more developed than on illegal immigration.
Illegal immigration is a huge problem in the United States. I understand that the conditions we live in within the United States is a lot better than other countries and that moving here legally is sometimes difficult, but there are laws for a reason. My biggest problem isn’t necessarily that they don’t pay their medical bills; it’s more that they don’t pay any sort of tax at all. Every country has some sort of taxes. You pay the government and they hopefully create programs that will help you in some way. However, illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes at all. While most of them have to get paid under the table (because they have no social security number or anything so that they can make money legally) and therefore don’t usually have great jobs, they are still living within the United States and are benefiting from the programs that the government makes. If they were willing to pay there share, me and the illegals would be cool. But the fact that I work my ass off for just $7.15 and then find that my paycheck for $224.36 would have been $251.56 before taxes, kind of makes me mad that they don’t have to do the same. Granted taxes took less then $30.00 from me in this paycheck, that is still $30 I could have spent wisely and instead it might be going to programs that help illegal immigrants who don’t have to worry about having taxes taken out of their own pay-checks.
Now health care is a completely different issue. I believe the entire health care system in the United States needs to be revamped. I have taken many classes on the health care system, so my desire is in no way uneducated. In the United States, medical costs are significantly higher than in any other country. Additionally, health care is considered a privilege, not a necessity. With such high costs, many people cannot afford healthcare. However, if an emergency occurs, even the uninsured will be taken care of in the emergency room. Somehow, someone has to pay for their medical bills. Who is that? All of the people that are insured. That is one of the many reasons why costs are so high. Not only do you pay for your own insurance, but you are paying for others as well. Some kind of Universal health care system should be put in place, like Germany’s health care system. While taxes would be higher, at least everyone would have access to health care.
At first, when I watched this video I was angered and thinking, “How can we pay for these bills for illegal immigrants and not get reimbursed?” “It is unfair.” But after reading the rest of what Dr. Richards wrote, I was much more at ease with my thinking. In one way I feel it is unfair to be paying millions of dollars to cover illegal immigrants while they take up room in our hospitals for over two years, but on the other hand, it is being a good American and citizen that we treat everyone equally. If I was in another country and suddenly fell deathly ill or had to have an emergency operation I would go straight to the hospital even though I was uninsured medically.
I think, though, that there is a certain limit that people can go before it becomes unreasonable and unfair. For instance, if many illegal immigrants are just coming over to the United States to have their babies born by one of the top medical countries in the world, and them leave to go back home, this is where I think the line is drawn. It is unfair to Americans to have to pay tax dollars for this because this act was a willing act. The mother, most times, chose to not have protected sex and the result was that she became pregnant. It is very unfair for Americans to have to pay for people’s bad judgments. If you did not want a baby, then use some form of contraception. Take responsibility for your actions, and if you understand the consequences that come with unprotected sex, then you should be able to get medical coverage for your child, and not put the financial burden on another country. Also, if someone has a medical condition that they have had for a long time, but has put it off until they came to the United States or another country, and placed the burden on the medical staff there to cure them, I think that is unfair. If someone knowingly understands that they have some type of disease, they should get it taken care of in their home country.
In other cases though, I am extremely understanding to the circumstances. Sudden diseases or injuries are very understandable because it could not have been predicted. If I am vacationing in Spain and I fall and break my wrist, I am not going to wait until I come back to the states to get it looked at. I will go to a hospital in Spain and get it treated there. Overall, I am very torn on this topic. In some cases I think it is understandable for illegal immigrants to be treated in foreign hospitals, but in other cases I do not. To me, it depends on previous knowledge and sudden occurrences. If you previously knew something, then it is unfair to that country to have to take care of you, but if it suddenly happened, then to me, it is understandable to use foreign medical staffs for treatment.
The American Dream, in a sense, was a marketing ploy to bring immigrants from all over the world to the United States in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. The promise of equal opportunity and streets paved in gold were among the many preconceived notions of foreigners. The Industrial Revolution bolstered these ideas of prosperity. As a large influx of foreigners came to the “promise land”, they saw American life as something that was completely different than what they had imagined. Many poor immigrants faced array of economic and social injustices. They were forced to work long, unreasonable hours for low wages in dangerous conditions. Immigrants that were Catholic faced tremendous scrutiny from Protestants. America failed to meet the expectations of many immigrants. Unfair treatment, discrimination, and cultural differences made life for incoming immigrants very difficult. The immigration process and transition still has not been rectified since the early days of the Industrial Revolution. The same patterns of injustices are still seen today in the current immigration progress. The blog, “Those Undocumented Thieves” illustrates how Latino and Hispanic immigrants, even though they are illegal, are still unfairly treated. They face similar discrimination that the immigrants hundred years ago did. The video in the blog portrays them as blood, thirsty leeches that drain the American healthcare system. I do agree that it is unfair that there are many American citizens that do not have adequate healthcare, and there are illegal immigrants across the United States that are being cared for by American doctors. To me, that does not make any sense at all. American taxes that pay for American services should rightfully go to American people. With saying that, I do not believe that illegal immigrants should be blamed for this problem. I feel an individual should not be turned down by a hospital because he is an illegal immigrant. No one has the authority or power to determine who’s life is worth saving, or not saving for that matter. It is still a human life regardless if they pay taxes or not. If I were to visit another country, I would expect fair medical treatment if I was in critical condition. With that in mind, I understand even my views are biased. I say this because I an American teenager who does not own a house or pay federal taxes. This issue regarding the hospital may be over my head. Regardless,I feel any immigration issue in the United States roots from enthrocentrism. The United States government and some it citizens express their views about immigration in a way that make it seem that “certain” foreigners are not worthy enough to become citizens here or deserve adequate medical treatment, and these notions are demonstrated by the woman who represents the hospital.
Health care is definitely a topic of heated debate in this country. In fact, the cost of health care is so expensive, that some choose not to have it. In every presidential debate, the topic of health care is one of the most important issues to Americans. The citizens of the United States know that if they can afford to pay health care bills, they are dishing out an awful lot of money, and if they can’t afford it, they are taking a huge risk. The topic of health care reminds me of a story one of my high school English teachers told me. She said that while she was in college, she was working a part time job to pay for her tuition and living expenses, and really had no money to cover her medical care expenses. She said that she didn’t think she would need to be covered while in college because that is when people are normally the healthiest. Well one day during college when she wasn’t covered by medical care she also needed an emergency appendectomy, and spent the next two years paying off her medical bills. After hearing this freak story, medical coverage is a must for me after my parents stop paying mine for me. I think the reason why medical coverage for illegal aliens is such a big deal in this country is because the price of medical insurance that citizens pay is so high compared to every where else in the world that citizens feel the illegal aliens are stealing money out of their pockets. Places such as Canada, or countries in Europe have free medical care included in taxes so the citizens don’t make as big of a deal about Americans being treated in hospitals. Instead of citizens pointing the finger at the government or the health care industry itself, citizens automatically blame the scapegoats who are responsible for all bad things in this country; the illegal aliens. The United States having access to government health care would stop the fingers being pointed at illegal aliens. To me, its one thing to tighten security at the borders and stop immigrants from entering the country illegally, but to be angry at a person for getting medical attention that they absolutely need is absurd. In the response, Sam said he had an emergency surgery in Mexico and all they asked was for him to donate a pint of blood. A pint of blood! If an illegal alien had an emergency surgery in America and asked how he could repay the hospital, would they reply by asking if they could donate a pint of blood? I don’t think so.
The topic of illegal immigrants is always something that gets people talking. When our taxes are so high here in the United States, why should some people get to live for free and not cough up the bucks like their legal neighbors down the street? According to Wikipedia, (not the most accurate of sources, but efficient nonetheless) it is estimated that there are anywhere between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants living in the United States. That means there are between 12 and 20 million people living off of the rest of the country. There are between 12 and 20 million people who are being paid under the table by companies using them for their cheap labor. There are between 12 and 20 million people living a lie.
While I agree with what Professor Richards is saying, I can’t help but think that there are two sides to every story. Everything that happens in our lives-- whether it’s a fight with a friend, a cheating boyfriend, or the accomplishments of a past president—there is always going to be another point of view. I try to put myself in the shoes of others as much as I can. When thinking about this situation, I know that the illegal immigrants that inhabit our country would love to be honest working men and women. I also know that the lives they left to come here are much worse than mine. With that in mind, I find it hard to see the other side. As cheesy as it sounds, I just can’t condone people doing things without permission. I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t feel comfortable with people getting a free ride in this day and age. We live in a country where most people are working hard to make a living to provide for their families. Although the illegal immigrants are doing the same and probably had nowhere else to go, they are stealing from the rest of the country.
With that being said, I do feel like something must be done to accommodate all of these people. America is supposed to be the land of dreams, but people are turned away at the door and choose not to return home instead, but to sneak in by any means necessary. I am not going to pretend I know much about this topic, but isn’t it time that this country loosened the rules? If illegal immigrants can’t have a decent life and need to leave their homes, there has to be a way to help them. Instead of forcing people to live a life of lies, how about giving them lives worth living. The foundations of the United States were built by immigrants. Surely there can be a way to help them now?
Healthcare costs are a huge problem in the United States as it is and reading this just makes me feel even worst about it. Everything now is so expensive, especially healthcare. Basically, if you don’t have a job that has really good healthcare you are screwed. The tiniest things are ridiculously over-priced and now our economy is in a recession, which just makes it even worst. It is completely unfair that illegal immigrants are getting all this care and treatment from us, but are not paying a cent for it. I understand if someone is sick you can’t turn them away. However, ongoing treatment for months and years should not be happening. First of all, they are here illegally! Second, why can’t we treat them for that day or week and then send them back where they belong? Why do we have to wait for someone to actually pick up their phones and tell us if and when we can send them back? Just put them on a plane and send them to a hospital near where they live. If they can’t find where the illegal immigrant lives or where any of their family is, then we should fly them to any hospital and have that hospital deal with their government. It is not only inconvenient for us to try and figure out where in the country this person lives, but it is costly. I personally do not feel bad that the guy in the video got shipped back to his country because he was here illegally. The family has some nerve suing the hospital after they spent millions of dollars on him and treated him for so long. It makes me feel like people are so unappreciative and are taking advantage of us. They should not have even been here so what gives them any right to sue the hospital? I know the other side was mentioned about how we are in other foreign countries and other countries have to pay for us. That really does not affect me at all. I still feel the same way about that situation. If there is an American that is in a foreign country and they get sick, send them home and we will take care of it. I am sure there are a lot more illegal immigrants here that we are paying for then there are Americans in foreign countries. It is not a factor that the prices are inflamed here. Yeah they are and it sucks, but we still have to pay it. It was mentioned that many Americans moved to Canada because they did not appreciate their lives here. So, send them home and make them pay for the bill where the prices our inflamed. I wish we rejected foreigners and they rejected us for long term stay at hospitals. I would not feel bad if someone in Canada was sent back here because they were unappreciative of America and should be stuck with paying the bill here with our inflation prices like everyone else. Now that the economy is going down the drain, we can’t even pay for ourselves why should we have to pay for other people?
To be completely honest, this does not upset me in the least bit. What did upset me however, was when the speaker was complaining about a man who was practically braindead, had no family and they did not have any information of the man. I am sorry but where is your compassion? What are we supposed to do? Unhook all of the machines that are keeping him alive and just toss him outside? This is completely absurd. Where do you expect this man to go. My sister is a surgeon at Temple Hospital in Philadelphia, PA and she too complains about how much they charge people for the stupidest things. When I had my tonsils out this year, the nurse made me eat five popsicles in the course of an hour before she would agree to release me because they wanted to make sure that I could get liquids down. The hospital charged me $4.37 per popsicle! These were no extraordinary popsicles.. they were the ice pops in the plastic wrappers. So I’m sorry, but when you complain about how much his medical bill is racking up to be, I have no sympathy for the hospitals losing out on that money because they try to rob people blindly with their charges. They don’t try, they succeed. Because a person is an illegal immigrant are we supposed to just turn them away when they are hurt or sick and in need of medical attention? Are we really that cold of a country? The sad part is that I believe we are. We are so concerned with getting money from people that we don’t care who is hurt during the process. Was there a need to send the other man back to his country? Sorry, but I don’t think there was. He was a laborer, sure he was illegal, but besides the fact that he was in the hospital getting treated and had no way to pay the monstrous bill the hospital came up we, we’re going to send him back? Do they really think that Immigration is going to run right over and take every person who is illegal away from the hospital? Are we supposed to be feel bad for this system because they shoved out 30,000 to pay for a man to be returned to his home country? Because I do no. You sent him back, you should pay for it. And then she says that they are willing to send the braindead man back to his country on their dime? Wow, that is just so heroic of you. The man is braindead for Christ’s sake. He has no family that you know of, but chances are that he has a family who is worried sick about him and has no idea where he is. They may have even assumed he already died. Couldn’t you take care of this man to show some compassion to the family that he does have? Just because you were unable to locate them, you probably didn’t even try that hard but that is beside the point, he has to have one. He has to have at least one living relative that is worried about him and loves him. I just wish everyone could take one step back and think about what would happen when they found out their family member was in this situation in another country. As Sam said, they only asked him for a pint of blood…
In my discussion group, Katie H. has expressed extreme dissatisfaction over the plight of one paying for the costs of others while barely having the capacity to pay for one’s own costs. To play a bit of devil’s advocate, this particular situation of sharing costs is what insurance is all about. At its core, health insurance was formed to protect people who may have the misfortune of a rare but significant medical cost by spreading the risk over a large group of people.
In an ideal world, those who use health insurance would only need to be “bailed out” once in a blue moon, while paying their fair share for the majority of the time. This is different from the situation we have in this article, where people outside of the system are reaping the benefits without chipping in their fair share. Even moreso, I feel that no matter what the situation in the United States, we will always have people who fail to pull their weight and take advantage of the system, whether they are illegal immigrants without health insurance or U.S. citizens without health insurance.
One may be surprised to learn that many illegal immigrants pay taxes that go into the U.S. government, yet because of their status will not receive the benefits of social security and the like further down the road. In this way, I can liken illegal immigrants to those citizens who work abroad and dutifully pay taxes to their country of residence. This doesn’t keep me, however, from refuting some of the claims about people who travel and need emergency medical assistance. I had a friend who studied a summer abroad in the Czech Republic, and during this trip, he became ill and was hospitalized for a couple of days. Once he was back in the states, he finished paying off the medical debts of hospital care and medicine that he incurred while out of the country (It might be helpful to mention that he purchased study abroad health insurance through Penn State but the total cost of care was conveniently just below the minimum amount where the insurance coverage would kick in).
The difference between that situation and this, of course, is not only the vast difference in money owed to the system, but also the ability of the patient to pay this debt. Yes, my friend may have had an amount much smaller than a million dollars that he owed, but he also put the work in to erase this debt through his own pocket. In the video and the consequent blog, there was no mention of whether the illegal immigrant made any effort to pay back even a small portion of their staggering debt. That type of information would help me make an even more educated opinion on this overall topic.
To conclude, the topic of health insurance and medical care is an extremely thick one (I would know since I am in the middle of writing a thesis on healthcare systems). While the expensive care of those who cannot repay their debt will always financially hurt any healthcare system, it is no one’s job to put a price on someone’s life and decide whether to cut off medical assistance when it becomes too costly.
When watching the video about illegal immigrants receiving health care in the United States, many emotions came to mind. First, I felt that we were being taken advantage of as a country. Secondly, I was offended that illegal immigrants come here and do this. However, at the same time, do they know what they are doing is entirely wrong? Maybe they did see an American citizen, or someone who they believed to be American, receive health care in their country. I think that as Americans, many people blow things way out of proportion, at least from a media prospective. Sources of media always show one extreme and not the other. I think it is great that Sam showed the other side of the story. I would have never thought about Americans getting free health care from other countries.
First, I think that when other countries think of America, they think of the best of the best of the best. Because of this, many flee here with hopes of becoming something or benefiting from something they cannot receive in their country. For instance, illegal immigrants come to the United States with hopes of getting health care. They might not know that it is free because they never see the bill. Because this is happening widely throughout the world, I think some ends need to be reached between countries. If this continues to go on, American taxpayers will be burdened by the bills of foreigners, thus forcing health care costs to skyrocket. A conclusion on matching bills with a country is not exactly that easy, however.
When an illegal citizen comes in for care, their heritage cannot always be examined solely on the way they look. Sure, a good guess could be made, but there is no sure way of determining where they are from. This is why it would be so difficult to match a patient’s health care bill to their mother country. However, Americans are not going to stop caring for patients just because they are illegal. It is the American way to make sure everyone is well and healthy. It would be cruel and appalling if a hospital declined someone because a person could not support himself or herself financially. In the case of Florida, maybe they have more illegal immigrants because they are closer to the border of the United States. Although the government attempts to block every way into the country, it is impossible to block every single one of them.
Americans strive for excellence in everything they do, and that is what brings many people to our country. Many negative things are present because of this. There will be an increase in immigrants – illegal and legal. Many people cannot support themselves, so the tax system is very screwed up. Wealthy Americans end up supporting those immigrants who cannot support themselves, and this is not the way things should be. A conclusion should be reached regarding health care; however, that conclusion is very difficult to achieve since it must be universal throughout the world.
It is pretty crazy to think that so many illegal immigrants are “spending” millions and millions of dollars of our healthcare. It kind of sucks. The United States taxpayers spend so much money on our mediocre health care. One of my friends was in a terrible car accident a few months ago. He crashed into a tree, went into a coma, and had shards of glass going into his brain. He needed brain surgery where they took out a chunk of his brain. The time he was in the hospital equals over a million dollars. A million dollars! What?! He’s going to be in debt for forever. He’s okay now thank God, but why does he have to pay so much money and some illegal citizen comes in and gets a nice 1.5 million dollar treatment and then gets a free flight home. That makes absolutely no sense to me. If I lived in Mexico and was a Mexican citizen, every time I needed to go to the hospital for something, I’d bite my lip and sneak across the border, run into the emergency room and stay there for a few weeks. It seems like a nice vacation to do that. I think it’s pretty funny that the Mexican doctors asked Sam to just donate a pint of blood. What?! That’s ludicrous. We donate pints of blood all the time. He had his freaking appendix taken out. I believe that costs a bit more than a pint of blood.
All in all, I think the United States really needs to figure out our healthcare system. There are so many loose ends and loopholes for people to get off with free surgery that taxpayers like us need to pay for. I do not really have an answer to the problem. I think if a bleeding man comes in, the emergency rooms need to take care of him or else he will die, but I think he needs to find a way to pay for it. Isn’t that what we have to do as well? I’m pretty sure that when I broke my arm a long time ago, I went into the emergency room, and my insurance covered it. That still means it was paid for, and I didn’t get off without paying my dues. I think Obama will tackle the issues of healthcare. Although, I’m not sure nationwide healthcare is the answer since European countries that have that still have a ton of problems, it might be better than what we have right now and it will surely keep some people healthier. I know for me, for example, that would be very nice to have since I won’t be making much money when I graduate and can use the extra few bucks to not pay for healthcare.
As a humanist, my first reaction to the outrage of any human being receiving medical care when in dire need, whether they are legally or illegally in this country, is to be angry and disappointed that people could first, be so selfish and careless to disregard the fact this is a suffering human being; and second, be so hateful as to further point fingers and ridicule them for “robbing” us of our money as tax payers. However, the issue here is not whether or not to treat a sick person, as the woman states in the video that a patient in the emergency unit is always treated. The problem is a much greater one, and that is illegal immigration. As for this issue, I tend to have less sympathy because it is not the individual lying sick in the hospital bed that we should be angry with, but the corrupt governments of the countries that these illegal immigrants flee from because they are being mistreated and not cared for.
I do think that it is an outrage that American tax payers are accounting for the millions of dollars of health care debt that these illegal immigrants are incurring; however, the problem needs to be solved by cracking down even more on illegal immigration. Of course we are going to treat these men and woman, but it is unfair and frustrating that we have to do so. Because certain governments are corrupt, careless, and incompetent we are forced to care for their citizens by footing their medical bills and providing jobs and shelter for them. It is not that Americans are cruel and opposed to the well being of all people; it is just that it should not be our responsibility to care for people who financially contribute nothing.
Furthermore, it is completely unfair to say that Americans are taking advantage of other health care systems when we travel and live abroad. Firstly, we do this legally when we acquire passports, visas, grants, permission to stay in another countries. Often, we are working and studying, spending our money there, and contributing to economies that greatly depend on tourism. And if an American needs health care while abroad, they are certainly not racking up millions of dollars in health care bills. The health care that we would receive in the United States would most likely be better health care anyway because of the advanced technology and health care practice paid for by our taxpaying citizens. So I think it is unfair to compare our legal residency in other countries and use of their health care to illegal immigrants in the United States taking advantage of the most expensive health care system in the world.
Initially, I was outraged by the video. I was pretty shocked to hear that this was happening in our country; I’d never thought about it before. And the fact this is one of the reasons many citizens in our nation cannot afford health care and are indebt due to health care bills angered me. Ultimately, this video made me form the opinion that many legal citizens in this country cannot get healthcare because illegal immigrants are receiving all the benefits for free, and it made me think about how unfair that is.
After reading the rest of Sam’s post, the strong opinion I had formed from the video definitely weakened, but at the same time I still think that debt owed by the illegal immigrants is not okay or fair in any way. The video states that in 2007 the cost estimate for illegal patient care was over one hundred million dollars. Hearing that statement blew my mind. It is clear to see how this cost affects the lives of United States tax paying citizens.
Yes, I’m sure they are many Americans out there who have been granted with generous health care benefits from other countries (just as there has been conversely in America), but I do not find it to be as likely that these Americans are illegal immigrants of those countries as much as tourists or legal residents. It’s always a good thing to help one another out, but when this leads to harming or hindering others that deserve that help just as much if not more, then I do not support it. The poor people of our nation are still legal citizens, and the fact that illegal immigrants take away from the legal citizens’ chance at receiving health care is not at all fair. Furthermore, I do not see why we should automatically assume that a large number of the Americans in other countries are uninsured. That could be true, and I may sound ignorant, but I do not see how it is likely.
In every country there will be cases of people helping other people from foreign land for little to no cost, and equally there will always be cases of people helping other people from foreign land only for great, substantial costs in return. Yes, I most definitely agree that the cost of medical bills in the United States are far and above overpriced. The cost of certain surgeries, procedures, operations and medicines is nothing but ridiculous. At the same time, I do not see a problem with the hospitals asking for the money that was spent on the illegal patients. I’m sure there are desired demands from other countries concerning similar issues.
I definitely think that it is a good thing that we have been able to help so many people, but the fact that these expenses lower the opportunity for those in this country to receive health care does not seem right to me.
Though the cost of health care in the United States may seem inflated in comparison to other countries, this can be linked, for the most part, to the remaining independence from the federal government that health providers in this country exist under. Since the United States is a capitalist, market-driven nation in which regulated business is, for the most part, frowned upon, it has been difficult to integrate health care within the already-small social security system. The issue being presented in this blog, then, is derived from the essential and outstanding differences the United States displays in comparison to other countries. However, there are a few glaring assumptions being made that could discredit its impact when placed under analysis.
In regards to the over 4 million US citizens living abroad permanently, it must be decided what was meant by the word “permanently.” If they are to be referred to as expats, it is left in the air whether or not they still retain their United States citizenship. However, assuming they have permanently expatriated, it would not be dangerous to assume they have indeed given up their United States citizenry in exchange for citizenship in a different country. To take the example, then, of an expatriate in Ireland with pneumonia, and with no information other than the socialization of health care in Ireland, the individual would certainly deserve, legally, any treatment within the boundaries outlined by the state health care system. If the individual is not a permanent resident, then their treatment would still be under the scrutiny of those boundaries, specifically in relation to treatment of visitors. The first, if not both, of these examples shows in the error in assuming the individual is without any type of insurance.
Two large differences exist between the situations of an illegal immigrant receiving treatment and a registered visitor receiving treatment. As already mentioned, if they are officially citizens none of this applies. If, for instance, a legal traveler to America, documented and with identification, were to require any health care, those at the hospital would have the advantage of knowing who that person is, where they are from, and who to contact in case the debt cannot be paid. Assuming they are not going to sneak out of the country after their treatment, another assumption could be made that the United States government would intervene in their departure, or possibly communicate with the individual’s country of origin in regards to communication with relatives or the possible seizure of property until the debt is repaid.
The second difference lies in the nature of the illness being treated. While intensive, an appendectomy operation certainly does not require the same continuous care and commitment as a patient requiring dialysis. Both, however, are matters of life and death, and so must be treated. Though the appendectomy would inconvenience a hospital, if they are in a country where the government pays for such procedures they have done nothing to hurt the taxpayers, who are already paying more than an American citizen because of the expanded reach of the government. Dialysis, as said, is lengthy and costly, and it would take more research to determine what a different country would do in this situation. Further, there is no evidence provided that, while you were getting your appendectomy surgery, Mexican citizens were being turned away. Until evidence is provided, it is just as likely to assume they receive the same care.
This actually hits fairly close to home for me. My dad recently had a heart attack (he’s doing much better and is recovering well) and my parents were constantly being bombarded with insurance questions from the hospital staff because our health insurance provider changed within a month or so of the heart attack. Because of this, not everything was finalized and hospital wasn’t sure my dad would be covered. As it turned out, there were no problems so the hospital is happy and my parents no longer need to worry about it.
The part that shocks me though, is that the hospital was so very worried about who would pay for the care of my dad who’s citizenship is unquestionably of the United States while other hospitals (and I’d bet even the same hospital my dad was at) serve illegal immigrants daily. I’m not saying the hospital shouldn’t be concerned with the finances, but as much as they were bothering my parents, you’d wonder how they could bring themselves to serve people who clearly have no coverage.
More broadly, the impact of serving people without health care does include exuberant costs. Despite this—and despite the onslaught of questions my parents faced—I think that hospitals should treat anybody who needs it. If nothing else, there should be some system of repayment or even a special fund set aside for people who cannot afford their own health care.
Next year, I will be studying abroad in London and Sweden. One of my initial concerns with this was what I would do if I was injured or became ill. Without any hesitation I was assured that I could go to a hospital (or a “surgery”) to get the care I needed and it would be covered, though at least partly because of the insurance Penn State requires its students to purchase when travelling abroad.
As Sam points out, if we can visit so many countries and receive care, why then should these other people not get the same treatment. Personally, I feel the bigger issue is the exportation back to their home country. I would imagine it’d be much cheaper to fly a person back to their land of origin as soon as possible than to care for them for upwards of a year or more.
I’m more shocked that the people working for government organizations and consulates do not put forth more effort in helping the hospitals free up their facilities. This brings up another point, if we are providing (basically) housing for some of these people, what about the people who need to be admitted later? I don’t believe should be turned away from care nor should they be told they’ve overstayed their welcome to care. However, when we can send people to a place they legally belong and still receive care, we should do it. A big part of this though, is improving not only procedures for health care at home, but also making sure health care is up to par abroad.
At what point does this issue stop being about health coverage and taxes and start being about life? Ok, so if an illegal immigrant walks into your hospital, bleeding allover and clearly on the verge of death, are you not going to do anything about it just because he cannot pay for it or is not covered in the country he is currently in? Money or no money, I don’t think I would have it in me to sit there and just let a human life slip away in front of my eyes when I have the ability to do something about it.
This blog opened my eyes to the reality of health care in other countries. Before reading this I, and many other Americans I’m sure, had never stopped to think about the medical attention Americans might receive while they are in different countries. So quick are we to believe that our country is one of benevolence and kind-heartedness, and yet we sit here and charge not only illegal aliens but our fellow countrymen ridiculous prices for necessary, life-sustaining medical procedures that are government covered in many other places. What does this say about us? That we only believe you deserve to live if you can manage to pay? What a grim thought!
However, while I do not agree with the inflated costs present in our country’s medical system, I also understand why Americans would be angry that they are helping to pay for the medical care received by men and women who are not even legal citizens. As I am only 20 years old and not quite in tune with the whole health care “fuss” at this time in my life, I can better equate it to grocery shopping. Say I work hard all week then go to the grocery store to get my food for the next month or so. Yes, it’s annoying that these groceries, which I need to live and stay healthy, will take away a significant portion of my paycheck from me, but I buy them because I have too. Now imagine, after you have paid for your groceries, someone comes up and just takes a bunch of your bags right out of your cart. Now this person will get to eat and stay healthy and live, but at no cost. Instead, you just got to pay for the health care of this person, this illegal alien. Probably would feel pretty crappy, right?
I guess what I’m trying to say is that, while I understand the anger and frustration felt by American citizens over the care and treatment of illegal aliens, I agree with Sam in saying that we need to exercise some caution in doling out the blame. Because you never know when you too could need an appendectomy in Mexico.
Yes, I am aware that treating foreign individuals who are not legal citizens of the United States is not in the best interest of American tax payers or the cost of health care. However, we must not lose sight of the bottom line, and that is that a person is just that—a person, a human being, regardless of his/her native or legal nation of residence. I am fully cognizant of the negative economic repercussions this circumstance entails; yet at the same time, an individual—whether an American citizen or not—is a human being and should be treated if he/she is injured or ill. It is the duty and responsibility of medical and health care professionals to treat such individuals, and when one is hanging in the balance between life and death, the nation in which one legally resides should not be a factor determining whether or not the necessary care is provided.
How can we, as Americans, feel justified and satisfied in turning away individuals in need of medical treatment because they are not legal United States citizens? I understand the concept of working for, and earning what you have—the notion of contributing so as to receive. But if individuals—even though they are illegally living here—are employed in an active job here in the States, are they not contributing somehow? Are they not fueling the economy in some way?
And for one brief moment, can we just put our own financial consequences of this issue on the back-burner, and step into the shoes of those whom we are trying to deny and turn away? Imagine that you are born in a pre-industrial, pre-modernized, perhaps even third world country where your family is faced with an incessant struggle to attain even the most basic necessities for survival: food, clean water, shelter, medical care. Imagine that the working and living conditions here are poor, and you make the courageous effort to better yourself and the status of your living for both you and your family, doing so by transporting everything you have to America. You’ve set your sights on the American border because you have heard that it’s the land of the free, the land of opportunity, the land where you can plant the seeds of your dreams and watch them grow into reality. But yet, when you arrive here, all these wonderful things which you have heard appear to be untrue—well, at least for you. Because you have come from another nation, that nation most likely being poverty-stricken, you are most likely a minority, and clash with the ideals of white supremacy. Due to this, as well as the fact that you probably have received little, or very basic education, you find yourself placed in a job of low wages, low respect and prestige, and no health insurance or benefits. The aspirations and expectations you had upon reaching the United States seem out of reach, unattainable. Just imagine the plight these individuals endure. Now what happens when you or a family member are involved in an accident, or become ill? You go to the hospital assuming that you or your loved one will receive the care and attention that is needed to recover. But instead, you are turned away, refused treatment, and essentially told that merely because you do not legally live here, you’re life is not worth the time, efforts, and expenses that would be expended to heal you.
This is the message America is broadcasting. By outwardly refusing these people medical attention, health care professionals are treating them as subhuman, and claiming that they are undeserving of a healthy life. This medical policy is degrading the significance of these individuals’ health and well-being, though they are human beings, just as legal American citizens.
Without this other knowledge of American foreigners in other countries and their ability to use governmental healthcare with no charge to them, this video would most likely make many Americans very upset that our costs are increasing because of these illegal immigrants. But with this new knowledge presented by Sam Richards and the story of his health care need in Mexico it is just another example of how every story has two sides. The fact that we use healthcare in other countries probably has a hundred times more of an effect on their economy and the countries people than what occurs here in America. Like Sam mentioned the healthcare costs are ridiculously inflated and so 1.5 million dollars can mean very little to a hospital that is doing procedures that cost that much every day. This number does sound outrageous to everyday people because we don’t see that amount of money on a regular basis. And so as Sam said that pint of blood that he donated might be just as important in their lives at 1.5 million dollars is in ours (not necessarily but possibly). I recently had an experience with the healthcare service that has really shown me that I am now an adult and have responsibilities for large sums of money if I do not have adequate healthcare. I had recently lost my healthcare coverage because I had turned 18 and so I wasn’t able to be on the service that I had been previously and we were in a kind of limbo between that and getting me on my parents service. I had to go to the hospital one night because I was just really sick and we weren’t sure what the problem was and they basically did nothing for me just told me to go home and get some over the counter medicine and take it easy. Apparently the healthcare service didn’t that I had been on had ‘run out’ or been terminated and I was sent a bill following week for $641.58. I didn’t think this could possibly be correct for such minor need at the hospital but it was and so we were forced to pay out of pocket. Because of this recent incident it is easy to see that video and think “wow, if I would have been an illegal immigrant that would have been taken care of and then they would just send me back to my hometown for free.” But subsequent to hearing the part about us in other countries it seems almost more than fair that we take care of the people in our country that need assistance and send them on their way considering that would have been done for us if we were in their country.
I found the video featured on the blog to be quiet interesting. I think that America’s health care system is severely lacking and more citizen’s needs should be met. I happen to know a few people my age who cannot afford health insurance. One friend of mine worked with me at a northeast food chain restaurant. Her job was to prepare the food and bring it into the front of the store for the servers to give to customers. She pretty much worked in the back and was always around stoves and heating pans and other cooking things of that nature. We went to lunch one day and I noticed a pretty bad burn on her hand. She had said that she had gotten that working and I told her she should get it looked at. She told me that she didn’t have health insurance and that is why she just put some ointment on it and that was it. I would suspect that she will have a bad scar there for a very long time. I found it really unfortunate that she couldn’t go to the doctor’s purely because she could not afford it. Now there could have been other options like getting the company to help her with that but she said since she was not a full time worker that wouldn’t help her out either. Whether or not she had any other options is irrelevant, the point was that she needed specific care that was not afforded to her. Meanwhile, in the video we hear stories of illegal immigrants getting millions of dollars practically for free. I have heard stories of people committing suicides because they cannot afford to cover their medical bills. Why are illegal immigrants getting away with this? I have watched Michael Moore’s movie Sicko about universal health care in other countries and as much as I think it’s a good thought, I still am not sure if it would work. My father told me that he doesn’t want universal health care because he feels that the quality will then go down. I guess I should just be fortunate to get health insurance from my parents employers. It doesn’t really cover much but it's something, something many others don't have. All of the money that is being spent on illegal immigrants just seems so unfair. As much as I feel bad for other poorer nations in the world, the United States should not be responsible to help everyone. We can’t solve all of the problems. Other nations need to take care of their own people because if we continue to do it we are only going to end up neglecting our own. Health costs are so sky high nowadays. Most people are just hoping to not ever need an expensive surgery or other procedure. I think many are just crossing their fingers because if something does end up happening to them or another family member, they will face extreme hardships and who knows how else that will affect them. I hope something effective can be done about this problem because we need to be able to take care of our citizens and not have them worry about if something medically dangerous happens to them. We want to be able to give people the attention they deserve in a crisis.
It is unfortunate that American tax payers have to pay for these unhealthy illegal immigrants but it is better than letting them die. It does however make me angry that these illegal immigrants who are not Americans get treatment, when so many sick Americans are denied treatment because they would be unable to pay for their hospital bills. But it is also different than Americans receiving treatment in other countries. In a lot of other countries health care is paid for by the government. Not completely, and it obviously varies by country, but citizens don’t always pay for their hospital bills like in the united states. So even if the United States’ hospitals inflate the bills, the money still comes out of the pockets of taxpayers when it does not always in other countries. Health care is a very tricky puzzle to solve, because someone is always going to come out to be the loser. Whether it is insurance companies, governments, hospitals, tax payers, or patients, someone is going to be paying more. America’s system seems like it could not be any worse. Why are illegal immigrants getting treatment when some American citizens are being refused? Also, it seems like everyone is losing. Many Americans without health insurance are being denied treatment. The government spends a shit load of money every year on health care, but America still has lower life expectancy and higher birth mortality rates than a lot of other countries. My dad is a doctor in the emergency room and he often complains about having to work for free. They rarely if ever deny people emergency treatment if a patient doesn’t have insurance. In those cases, my dad treats people and expects not to be paid. It seems like the only absolute winners in our country are the insurance companies. In other countries, governments watch insurance companies and dictate their rates in order to prevent them from making profit. That way, their citizens can get coverage much easier and much cheaper. In the United States it seems like insurance companies are the epitome of all that is evil. They deny people coverage even after they have paid their dues. It seems like they do anything to not have to pay for people’s medical bills. So the point is that health care is an extremely annoying thing to talk about because its so hard to find a way that everybody wins. Getting sick in the first place stinks, and not being able to get cured makes it that much worse. Its surprising to me that healthcare is so expensive. That is what complicates the whole ordeal. But either way it is hard to think of a good thing to do with the illegal immigrants because we shouldn’t just let them die.
Those Undocumented Thieves?
I personally feel that as United sates citizen that I should not be held responsible for any one who is not a legal American citizen. I am sorry but American health care is expensive enough as it is the last thing we should b doing is further inflating them by giving it to illegal immigrants who can not even pay for it. I mean Americans have to have health care just to get service at a hospital so why on earth would we give it aw3ay for free to someone that is not a citizen of this country. I mean as far as im concerned if you sneak in to this country illegal then you should not receive any of the benefits of someone who is a illegal documented citizen. I think everyone is missing the point here these people are illegal citizen meaning they chose to sneak in to this country illegally. They freely made that decisions so they should understand the risk of what happens when you do illegal things. I mean if your illegally selling drugs u cant call the police if someone robs you and takes your drugs. I mean it’s the risk u take when you do an illegal act u are no longer under the protection of the law that is setup by our society. So I feel that sense these people came here illegally they should not be allowed to receive the benefit of having equal health care. I mean it’s not even equal health care because they are not paying it back they are just sent back to their home country while I an actual tax paying citizen I am left with their debt. I’m sorry but that’s not fair to people who pay their taxes and are legal citizen and did all the things necessary to get into this great country legally. By letting them get are health care it completely discredits all the things they did to become a citizen. In fact it may open new doors to people coming n illegally I mean y go thru all those test to become a citzen when you can by pass al that by coming here illegally and still getting all the benefits of a United states citizen. I mean as far as the counter argument of we receive free health care in other countries all I have to say to that is we aren’t their ILLEGALY we have a pass port. If we were their illegally then I would not want them to give me health care either. I mean to me it just boils down to the principle of what is legally and what is illegal if they’re not legally then they should not receive the same rights as a legal person do.
In some countries housing is a right to all its citizens. In the US housing is not a basic governmental right, and many obviously are left homeless. This is kind of ironic since no one will be turned away from free healthcare. We will let people sit on the side of the street to starve or freeze to death, but we’ll give them their $20 bag of ice. So why does America do this? In hopes of getting money in return. If we offer housing to all of our American people, the government or housing businesses aren’t going to get anything back. But, maybe, just maybe, if we provide everyone with healthcare, well get paid back two-fold for ridiculous prices and make a buck. It is really sad that this is what healthcare in American is coming too, money. Who cares if people die, they’re illegal immigrants. Is that the attitude we have on this issue? My mother works in the inner city as a manager of a dialysis clinic. And as mentioned in the video, her clinic serves illegal immigrants everyday. Why does she serve them? Well because they will surely die if she doesn’t. There comes a point where people need to put money behind and think about a person’s life. Now do I agree that illegal aliens should be provided millions of dollars of care for every broken finger or minor cut or bruise, no. But when it comes to life and death these people need help. So now I think people need to stop complaining about the current system and make a change. You can sit around and complain all you want but until you take action nothing different is going to happen. A main topic of every presidential debate is healthcare, but with every administration comes a new set of complaints about the way they chose to run things. As mentioned in lecture today, nothing is ever fair. As we have all heard since we were little children, life just isn’t fair. No matter what changes or made, even if we revamp our entire healthcare system, someone, somewhere, will still be complaining. I do not believe that the total of money required to provide care to Americans abroad equals up to the amount that is spent in the US on those who do not have healthcare. But, if you are overseas and you need a serious procedure you will be accepted, you will be treated, and the procedure will be paid for you. Wouldn’t it suck to go into labor in a foreign country and not receive any healthcare? What if your sister was traveling abroad and needed her appendix out and the doctors turned her away. Well she would die, and that is what would happen to many of the people receiving free healthcare in the US. Treat others the way you want to be treated. If you would want healthcare in a country in which you aren’t a citizen, then you better be ready to help provide healthcare to those who aren’t citizens in the US. I am not trying to say the healthcare system in America is perfect, illegal aliens can get healthcare, but veterans of war can’t get their medication. Changes most certainly need to be made, but what are those changes? Who is going to decide on the changes and then implement them? These are the questions that now need to be asked. Everyone realizes the current system has flaws so lets stop talking about that. Instead people should be talking about what changes can be made in order to improve the current way of doing things.
Last semester in my Health Policy and Administration class, we danced to the sound of sirens. I have good memories of the class. There were lectures twice a week and a discussion group once a week talking about the various parts and issues of our healthcare system and often comparing it to the healthcare systems of other countries. However, this week’s newest blog article caused me to have an epiphany, the realization that maybe I hadn’t been getting a true global perspective. While we were being educated about medical malpractice, we were pointing the finger.
Students in the class were required to read two articles a week prior to their discussion section, where they would be discussed. One week, we talked about medical malpractice, and the story of 17-year old Jessica Santillàn surfaced. She and her family illegally crossed the Mexican border in 1999 when Jessica was in desperate need of a heart transplant, and a match had been found. They made their way to Duke University Medical Center for the operation. The discussion was about how not one mistake, but how the entire organ donor system failed her. Basically, everyone the entire step of the way failed to check her blood type, and her body rejected the heart. The hospital decided to give her another heart after anti-rejection medication failed, and her brain started hemorrhaging. Although the other students in my class were appalled at the mistakes made, especially since Duke is very highly regarded, there was a considerable amount of outcry over the fact that Jessica, an illegal immigrant, had stolen these organs from true American citizens.
Maybe if you were on the Cliffs of Moher on the west coast of Ireland and are suddenly stricken with pneumonia, Irish doctors would take care of you, but Americans might think twice if the situation was reversed. Even my best friend thought the doctors should have just let Jessica’s body reject the organs and give the second organ to another person. Apparently I’m not on the same page, because if I were a doctor, I wouldn’t care who my patient was, I would give them the best care I could possibly give them, citizen or not. I couldn’t imagine standing there letting another person die just because they were born in another country. Her family looked to the United States for options, to save their daughter’s life, and we very much let them down in a big way. Should we not care because she was an illegal immigrant? Why would American citizens be more deserving of a heart or a second chance at life? It’s absolutely disgusting how people separate other people even in life or death situations. Then again, maybe I’m just contributing to the exponential amount of problems in our ever fucked healthcare system…
While I can see why people may be upset that our tax money are going towards illegal aliens living within our countries borders, I would have to imagine that majority of US citizens would still be upset even if this wasn’t the case because our healthcare is so expensive to begin with. I personally do not like the concept of any of my money going to anyone but myself but that is how the government works and I am willing to live with that because I live a very privileged life to begin with thanks to my country. If anything this video makes me feel better about our country knowing that we wouldn’t let someone in pain stay that way. Instead we take care of them as best we can and attempt to set them on the right with a healthier lifestyle. It is unfortunate that the hospital in the video was sued because of the charitable work they did but that may be an extreme example. I only know of the example I was shown and I think the right thing was done.
I also cannot be upset with the actions the hospital took knowing how much money our government spends in all of its other projects. I would rather spend majority of our tax money on people who need proper health treatment rather than support and expensive war that never seems to end and always seems to need more funds. If we did not engage in war with Iraq we would have saved vast sums of wealth that could have been dispersed to plenty of other programs such as healthcare or education. In my mind I am still going to have to pay taxes regardless of who is in office and regardless of what their policies are so I would rather my taxes be helping other people then financing the murders of people I’ll never meet. I understand that developed countries need taxes to operate and since all of my taxes don’t come back to me the last thing I’m worried about is someone who isn’t a citizen of the US getting my money to help save their life. It doesn’t make a different to me whether the person is a citizen or not because I would hope that our country would help anyone in need. I would certainly hope that our country helps those who put in such long grueling hours with little pay just so they can raise a family and give them more opportunities then they would have received in their own country. People need to get off their pedestal and realize how privileged they are and how unprivileged so many others are. Hopefully people can take a step back and think about all of the unnecessary things their money goes towards and realize that saving someone’s life isn’t so bad after all.
The video regarding the testimony of illegal alien care highlights a moral issue. However, the larger issue at hand is the ethical dilemma, which gives me a different view than many of my peers. I want to first say that I support stricter immigration laws. In the last decade, the number of immigrants desperate to reach the land of opportunity dramatically increased leaving the majority of Americans to pick up the slack. Now, I agree that the illegal immigrants are more willing to take jobs I would never consider holding, yet I have a strong opinion about healthcare in this country. With the exception of children, if a person does not hold legal documentation (ie a social security card) then this person should not be entitled to our healthcare.
Why is it fair for illegal immigrants to be given adequate healthcare when so many children and adults are denied such care in this country? American citizens without health insurance who, at some point require medical care, run the risk of extreme debt (and seized assets) seeing as they are registered American citizens. These illegal immigrants have little money or assets meaning the tax payers must compensate for the costs incurred by the healthcare facilities. In no way, shape or form is it fair for this to happen nor is it fair for US citizens to get a “freebee” in terms of healthcare in other countries. Whether we like it or not, it will take several years to see adequate healthcare reform in this country. Until then, we have to accept the fact that healthcare is still a profitable business in the country. Thus, we cannot let illegal immigrants (unless they are children, I have sympathy for children) utilize urgent care that is required by own our citizens right here in the United States! I think it is about time we assume responsibility and take care of our own citizens who clearly need the same amount of medical care these illegal immigrants do!
Take the Four Diamonds Fund for example. Without it, many families would struggle and be in debt for the rest of their lives in attempt to pay the outrageous hospital bills they incur from their children’s treatment. Or even worse, they would be denied treatment because the hospital knows that the family cannot foot the bills. This is simply not acceptable here in American for our citizens! Maybe I am harsher with this subject I have close family members who lack adequate healthcare. They fear getting sick knowing they simply cannot afford the treatment. Why should my family members pay taxes to fund the medical treatment of illegal immigrants when they lack healthcare themselves?! Somebody give me a legitimate rebuttal for that. Until these illegal immigrants become legalized citizens (as my ancestors and many of yours did too I presume), they should be denied medical treatment. Go ahead and call me inhumane, but it is unethical to allow illegal immigrants to utilize healthcare here in the United States when so many of our citizens are forced to go without. My hope for the future is that healthcare is available and AFFORDABLE for all citizens. Until then, we must be sensible about immediate issues regarding healthcare and illegal immigrants.
As I watched this video I was shocked and outraged, as most United State citizens would be. However, when I read and considered the rest of the blog about our care in other countries, I did not know what to think. Does this mean that we owe illegal aliens what they are already illegally receiving? With the many different health plans of other countries, there is simply no clear cut answer for this.
My first thought was not the cost, but the fact that the illegal aliens might be taking away the time that professionals could be spending with tax paying citizens. I spent most of my Christmas break in the ICU with my grandfather. While I was there I was constantly standing in the doorway of his room, watching the nurses, and making sure they stay on their toes with every single need that he had. I would find myself thinking that he deserved to have the doctors and nurses around him at all times doing all that they could. But who would not think this when dealing with the fact that they could lose a loved one at any moment? While he did receive efficient care and pull through, I know I would have been upset to find out that he lost a second of care to someone not paying for what they were receiving. However, here is where I get confused, my heart goes out to anyone who needs the care and I would do anything to help them. So what is the right thing to do? Do we let someone die because they did not pay or do we save their life at our expense?
Maybe this would not be such a major problem if we had the same health care system as those countries that help the United States citizens living there. Why? Because they might not, and probably do not, have the outrageously inflated health care prices that America does. The clear fact is that we as citizens pay far too much for what we receive. Sam’s example of the ice for his wife’s shoulder costing twenty dollars highlights this in a major way. There is no reason that ice should ever cost that much. America’s health care system needs changed, and fast. This is a known fact and one that is brought up the media on a daily basis. I had heard about our nation’s problems but did not fully understand them until my ECON 002 class last semester. We learned about the health care systems of multiple countries throughout the world, and the more I learned, the more I wanted to change our system. We need the change, and fast. But even faster, we need to figure out what we need to do with the cost of caring for these illegal aliens and for the cost of our citizens’ care in other countries.
This is a touchy subject. Healthcare is major issue in the United States, always has been always will be. It is hard to be an American citizen and to hear about something like this after seeing the constant struggle my family goes through to pay all of our bills especially with the recession. This definitely makes me upset reading about the illegal immigrants and how they are taking advantage of our healthcare program. I understand that the same thing is going on with Americans in other countries but although this may sound selfish, I cannot concern myself with other countries. I am concerned with the United States and how illegal immigrants are not only taking advantage of our healthcare system but they are taking advantage of our country in general.
It may be a selfish thing to only be concerned about my country and where I live but the truth is you cannot go on living worrying about every other problem plus your own. It is like trying to make everyone happy; it is impossible to do it without hurting someone in the process and you end up just learning it is best to worry about yourself and to look out for yourself only. It may be selfish to some but once again I have learned as I have grown up it is most important to look out for yourself because usually no one else is. Obviously to be mad about this is not “fair” in a sense, considering what is going on in other countries with Americans but I look at it as I am mad at those specific illegal immigrants, not the entire countries themselves. Therefore, the Americans over in other countries taking advantage of other countries I cannot take responsibility for. Regardless of whom it is or what country they are in, it is not right to do what these people have been doing. It affects the entire country and has clearly created more and more issues for the United States.
I am not trying to argue that it is okay if Americans do it and it is not if illegal immigrants do it here. I am just expressing that my biggest concern is not in other countries and how Americans are taking advantage of them, it is here in the United States where I live and where my dad has to struggle to pay numerous bills every month. Obviously this is not solely because of the health care issue, but it has been shown that these illegal immigrants have caused a lot more issues economically for the U.S., besides health care. This is the problem I have with illegal immigrants and what they are doing to our country. If it wasn’t personally affecting me and my family then I would probably care less about them being here, but the truth is they are not only hurting my family but many others and it is part of the economic problem we have in this country. This shouldn’t have to be the issues that we are dealing with right now considering the other more important problems going on in our economy.
I find two major problems with this information. The first is that undocumented or “illegal” aliens have no problem coming to this country by any means necessary to get the best healthcare available; some knowing full well that the worst that will happen to them if they do not pay is a free ride back to their home country. I have a real problem with this, because like them I have no health insurance. However, no matter how bad the bill was, I would do my best to pay it off as quickly as I could. I feel that it is a lack of responsibility and moral ethics for people to take advantage of the system like this. I understand that most “illegal aliens” do not make much money at all, and that most of the money they do make goes straight to their families in their home country. This is no excuse to take advantage of our flawed system. If you cannot afford to pay the hospital back, maybe you could offer your services in return. Labor hours are in constant demand at hospitals with jobs tasks such as laundry, janitorial, and room-related clean-ups. At least then an effort would be made to repaying your debt to society. The second problem I have is with our health-care system itself. If a hospital can see fit to charge someone who just went through surgery twenty dollars for a bag of ice, then our system is just as corrupt as those who skip out on the bill. I have a major problem with the big money business that is the health-care field. Insurance companies feel it is acceptable to take money from people in good faith that if something tragic were to happen to them; the insurance company will pay their “fair share” of the bill. My father recently spent a week in the hospital. He has been paying into his insurance for nearly twenty years. The insurance company offered to pay a total of sixty percent of his bill. How kind of them! He’s paid enough money into his insurance that he should have been able to stay in the hospital for close to three months without having to shell out a penny towards the bill. Instead, it seems all his insurance money went to paying off the debts that people who do not have insurance have incurred. It is my opinion that many insurance companies and hospitals work together to make as much of a profit as they can. If this truly is the case, then our system needs a complete overhaul. I suggest we start by updating the system to make it more user-friendly, and then we can all afford some form of insurance to help reduce the unnecessary costs hospitals are incurring.
So as I’m reading the blog on the hospital bill (among others) I’m starting to think that it’s not only Sam’s lecture on how the Iraqis view us that makes him one of the 100 most dangerous professors in America. I mean if you listen to the stuff that’s being said, I mean really listen, and take this sort of thing into effect… I’m really starting to not like America.
I mean sure it’s better than some other countries, but when you really get a chance to see what’s out there it’s not nearly as benign as I’d been led to believe my entire life. So we pay for the health care of some foreigners who can’t afford it. What ever happened to “Give us your poor, your weary, your hungry”? Okay, so I know that’s not exactly how it goes, but this is America! Land of the free!? Ha, land of the fat greedy rich people’s more like it. I’m not saying all Americans are, but really… *sigh* I can’t believe how ignorant some people really are.
It feels like we as Americans have been brought up from day one to live a lie. Early on, we’re taught how this country was brought up from nothing, how we won our freedom and came to symbolize freedom to the entire world. Everyone looks up to us; America is where everyone wants to be. Sure, there were a few snags… Native American genocide, enslavement of African Americans, but that’s all over, we’re good guys now. But who determines that? By the time we’re in high school we learn the power of capital. That’s what it’s all about.
Of course to keep our money ours, we have to keep everyone else away. So we rules and laws to keep everyone else out of our country. No! My money! Stay back! Oh, you’re dying of a brain tumor? Show me the money. Since when did capitol become more important than human life? Worst part is most of us don’t even realize we’re doing it.
Most of our big American corporations are now moving overseas. Why? Because it’s cheaper. No American would complain when we benefit from foreign aid, but how often do we return that when we know we can get away with less? Under the cover of being this great big friendly free country, America’s still as imperialistic as any. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying America’s rotten through and through, but is seems like throughout the course of history America has had a habit of doing whatever it wants. And why not? We’re arguably the most powerful country in the world. Economically, militarily, no one’s going to accost us without due cause. It seems like America’s getting more and more bold in it’s accusations of the rest of the world. What gives us the right?
~Luke
I, too, am outraged at the amount of illegal immigrants receiving free health care in the United States. My father grew up in extreme poverty, worked three jobs to put himself through community college, has worked 60+ hours a week all his life to start his own business and become financially stable enough to have health insurance for himself and his family. He came down with a horrible flu last year and had to be hospitalized overnight (after waiting in the hospital lobby for hours for an open bed), and the bills he had to pay were ridiculous. Yet at the same hospital, he shared a room with a Cambodian man who spoke only Khmer, had no records or identification of any sort, and was given the same treatment as my father, even though he only seemed to have a bad cold. Our insurance did not end up covering a lot of the cost of my father’s stay, and the fact that my father had to pay so much in inflated bills and this man may not have had to pay anything infuriates me.
I can’t understand why the family of the Guatemalan man thinks they have a right to a lawsuit. Health care is provided to legal, tax-paying citizens (which I’m sure this man could have become, if he put forth the effort). The government makes it possible (if not necessarily quick and easy) for immigrants to come into the country and legally become law-abiding citizens. It’s a process that shows that the immigrants care about being part of society and a contributing member of the community instead of just living off the hard work of others.
I understand that illegal immigrants are often in dire situations when they come to this country, and I’m not trying to be unsympathetic. It’s just unfair to everyone who works very hard and obeys the laws and still has to pay high costs for health care. I also understand that there will always be illegal immigrants in the United States, no matter how tough the laws are. It’s very important that everyone remains healthy, because without proper health care for all, disease can spread, especially in urban neighborhoods. However, the government needs to take notice of this and offer more free clinics where basic health care needs can be met without requiring lengthy and expensive hospital stays. Most of the time, people can be treated with a simple antibiotic or other drug, and this can easily be supplied outside of private hospitals. Instead of just cracking down on illegal immigrants, the government should think about ways to help so that they can be strict while still providing basic health care, such as vaccinations, flu shots, and prescription drugs.
As the video progressed, I was getting a little perturbed by the stories the Carol Plato was describing. I was not surprised by the fact that the hospital would take in and treat anyone brought to the emergency room; this is just the humane thing to do. However, I was taken aback that the hospital was not receiving any aid, be it financial or getting in contact with the countries where the patients are from. Plus, these people were getting medical attention (spanning to some pretty outrageous costs) and they were not being charged for it. When I was growing up, I was privileged enough to not have any serious medical conditions, and when I did need to go to the doctor or hospital, I knew it would not be a financial burden. My father has worked for the same company for a good portion of his life, and we were set up pretty well with the health care he received. However, a friend of mine was not as fortunate. He lives with his aunt and uncle, and has a job doing construction. He does not get health care from the company, and not until he needed to have dental work done did I know the cost of medical bills. To fix a chipped tooth, it set him back about $1000. I know that this type of surgery is not very serious, so I cannot even imagine the cost of more intense medical procedures. Pair this with people who do not have health care, and it just seems like we get the shaft while illegal immigrants can get work done for free.
But like so many other things that I am uneducated about, this problem has many factors and influences that I would not even think to consider. It is very similar to the concept of affirmative action that we covered in class. I had heard of affirmative action, but since I had never taken the time to fully learn about it, I had skewed views about it. As Carol Plato made her plea in the video, she was basing all of her complaints from her very limited view of the world. She works at this hospital, sees these events, and is under the impression that only her hospital is getting screwed over. As pointed out in the blog, this type of thing happens all over the world and people accept it until they are negatively affected by it. I now understand this more complex issue, but I am still bothered by the fact that the other countries were not helpful in dealing with the patient. The hospital did the decent thing by taking in the ailing person and treating them. But since they are here illegally and undocumented, it seems only fitting that the person’s home country should claim them, transport them home, and continue to treat them.
As someone who is lucky enough to have had a health care provider under my parents since I was little, I will admit that I don’t know much about how health care works if you don’t. I have never had to go the county hospital and wait in line for hours to be seen, or been turned away. I have watched ER a lot while I was growing up, but perhaps that’s not exactly the best place to get my information. But I did notice that she was from Florida where there are a lot of Hispanics, both illegal and legal. Due to Florida’s close proximity to the border, the strain on the health care system there is probably greater than it is in the North, or the East or West Coast. So any knowledge I did have from personal experience wouldn’t equate.
One of the major differences I have found between what the woman is describing in the video clip, and the examples Sam brought up, is that what Sam is talking about seem to be emergency situations. I don’t think anyone would say that someone in the US, illegal or not, should not be assisted if they suddenly come down with appendicitis and need to have surgery, or if they come down with pneumonia and need to go to the ER. But the cases the woman in the video talked about included a man who had been at that hospital for over 2 years. His chances of getting better are slim to none, and he has no one to come take him home. So the hospital is required to care for him indefinitely since they are not about to just take him off life support. The other man is getting renal dialysis every three days. These costs among others are borderline absurd, in my opinion. While it may not be the millions that the woman says it is, due to the United States’ extremely inflated health care costs, it is definitely not going to be that much lower. I’m not proposing that we require people to be citizens in order to get the care they need, but something does need to take place to prevent things like this from happening. US citizens and legal immigrants seem to have enough trouble getting the care they need, when they are paying for it, so it seems fair that government funds go to them foremost. As for the “expats” that leave the US and then do the same in other countries? No, that’s also probably not fair, but I also don’t think, although I may be wrong, that the problem of illegal aliens is as big a problem in those countries as it is here in the US.
Personally, I don’t know much about what we pay for health care. I assume it is a substantial amount and I do know that many don’t have any. I certainly feel bad for those people. I have a friend who recently got into a car accident and had to be life-flighted. She was in critical condition. She had to be in the hospital for months. I can’t remember exactly how long or how long she was induced into a coma. In the end, she lost all feelings and control of half of her face. Unfortunately, she is one of the citizens in our country who do not have health insurance. However, hospitals still gave her medical condition and she made it out okay. I would hate for any hospitals to turn down a patient in need of help. I especially wouldn’t want them turning down a patient like my friend who could have died. Immigrant or not, these are human beings. I would expect to get the same attention when I travel out of the country.
After watching the video, I defiantly see their side of the story and why they are upset. I certainly don’t think citizens of the United States should have to pay for immigrants’ bills. After all, we have to take care of our own medical problems. Immigrants should not be in our country so why should we give them health care for free?
Maybe the United States should come up with a better financial plan so we don’t have to pay for these people who are immigrants. Wherever the person came from, their own country should be in charge of the bills. The same goes for our citizens who live or travel outside the United States. We should take care of our citizen’s bills. This may end arguments on immigrant health care, but it may not end the arguments on the high bills. I don’t see an easy solution.
Truly, I think this problem of health care only came up because of the economy at this time. People are freaking out about money and being careless. We’re talking about people’s lives at stake. I don’t see how anyone can look at a dieing man and say, “no, I can’t give you any medical attention because you don’t belong in my country. Go back to yours that may even be across the ocean and get help.” By then the person would be dead. Are we being this selfish to people? I think so. We need to take a deep breath and think about these situations in other people’s perspectives. We need to stop jumping into conclusions and forcing opinions. As a United States citizen, I would expect my country to be a good role model and that is certainly not what we are doing.
Health Care in the United States is quite the controversy. So many Americans are not able to afford or obtain medical coverage. So, they are forced to take drastic measures. For example, I was sick not too long ago and was put on a five day antibiotic plan, a Z-pack. These packs are not the strongest in this particular experience, so the doctor gave me a prescription for better antibiotics. He said if I did not feel better soon, I should take them. Surprisingly, I felt better and did not need them even though I had already purchased them. But with my insurance paying for them, they only cost me five dollars. My brother has graduated from college and is no longer under my parent’s insurance. Thus, he does not have health care. His trips to the doctor can cost around eighty dollars and prescriptions can be even more than that. When he got sick, he swiped my antibiotics! I was so concerned that he did not get advice from a medical professional! (Just because of the costs)
I have mixed feeling on the subject of illegal immigrants. I believe that anyone who comes to the emergency room should get the proper care. But also they should be able to face the consequences of the bills. However, the hospital bills in this country are ridiculous! My last trip to the emergency room lasted about thirty minutes and cost my insurance company about six hundred dollars, and this was just for a simple procedure. There are thousands of American citizens who cannot afford Health Care. So it is very unfair for an illegal immigrant to acquire what these American Citizens are being denied. And in this case, the illegal immigrant received medical care for free and received a free trip home. But Sam is right. There are thousands of American Citizens living in foreign countries receiving medical care for close to nothing. It is being paid for both the citizens of those countries. The example used by Sam demonstrates the irony in this situation. We are scrambling to money out of these poor illegal immigrants while in Mexico white rich Americans can occupy hospital beds need by people who actually live there. (And might not able to afford going)
So how can we deny these illegal immigrants the kind of treatment we receive in their country as well as other countries? Many illegal immigrants come to our country for a better life. But they are also forced to do the jobs we do not want to do and are given such little pay. So how could they possibly afford to go to the hospital? Although I do not approve of them being forced into such work for little pay, in a way they are doing the United States a favor. And we should do one for them. Maybe the country should turn a blind eye to this situation and allow them to receive affordable hospital care? I have no clue. There are consequences for every decision, and this one would be a major issue. I just do not know how this could all be fixed.
I can understand why uninsured Americans would be angry seeing an illegal immigrant receiving healthcare paid by their tax dollars, especially after watching this video illustrating the extreme case of one illegal patient spending over 1 million U.S. health care dollars. A common view is that these immigrants are illegally here, do not pay taxes, and should not benefit from our tax dollars. Despite this, I am unsure what the people who make this argument are really arguing. What solution are they suggesting to this problem, if any? From the caption on the video, it would appear that they think we should not address the healthcare needs of an individual that is not a U.S. citizen. What this really is saying then is that we should let a person die if they are not from this country. Clearly, refusing medical treatment would be completely unethical.
The caption on the video further states that illegal immigrants using our health care dollars are THE reason why Americans cannot afford health care. The main factor contributing to this is the inflated cost of our health care. We do not have universal healthcare and poor Americans simply cannot afford it, even after working perhaps several jobs. This video and especially the caption point the blame on illegal immigrants while ignoring the more pressing issues at hand. In addition, if we take into account the number of U.S. citizens taking advantage of universal healthcare coverage in other countries, the burden of immigrants is even lower.
Furthermore, illegal immigrants I would imagine bring in a substantial amount of revenue to our economy. They work for virtually nothing, and they work hard. Living in upstate New York, a relatively highly populated area of migrant illegal Mexican workers, it is easy to see the benefits these individuals bring to communities. Every now and again you hear of these immigrants being found working under the table and they are deported back to Mexico, only to be replaced by many more. These individuals are willing to do work that Americans are much less likely to do, such as pick apples all day; and they will do it for a much cheaper price as well. I am not sure how one would measure this revenue brought in to businesses, but I would imagine if we did, the money we spend on health care for these individuals would perhaps more than cancel out.
If we are going to argue that we should not provide illegal immigrants with basic health care needs, then we should understand the implications for our society if they are not arduously providing us with their cheap labor. If one stops to look at the benefits these workers bring to our society, perhaps they will be less quick to judge.
Heath care in this country has generally been a hot button issue, especially in election years. This election cycle it was overshadowed by the economy, so not too much light was shed on the topic. But traditionally there is the debate as to whether or not to switch to a universal health care program.
The argument for this would be that all Americans would at least have the right to have health coverage.
The arguments against this plan include the fact that in countries where they have universal health care coverage, people have to wait possibly six months to see the specialist that they need to go see. I know when I needed to see a specialist, I was able to see the primer specialist in this field in New England the next day and I was covered by my insurance. I enjoy this luxury, and I would be upset if I lost it if we went to a universal health insurance. I would not like to be punished just because my parents can afford good health coverage in the first place.
Now I do think that something should be done about people that can not afford heath care, maybe subsidize it or the government could help pay for our current system. But to universalize it, and have people refused treatment or put at the end of the line because other people have more life to live seems unethical. Is there a perfect solution? No. But I think that there are better ways to go about this. One thing would be to stop the inflation of the costs. We all know that bag of ice did not cost $20.00.
Hold hospitals accountable for charging fair amounts for services. That seems like a simple case of price gouging to me. People need a product or service, and the hospital is charging ridiculous price to get it. If you charge too much for gas after a hurricane you can get arrested or fined, why shouldn’t hospitals be held to the same standards?
Being healthy is a right that all people should have. Some of the greatest minds have debated how to pay for this as healthcare is really expensive in this country. I do not have the answer. One would assume it would include tax increases and maybe a decrease in services offered by doctors, or like I said earlier the wait time to see the doctors could increase to extreme amounts. But if costs were lowered to normal levels then more people could afford proper healthcare in this country and we would not be in the current situation that this country is in. Should there be a change? Yes. What should it be? I can’t tell you.
I actually really enjoyed reading this blog; it was very thought provoking and made me think. Obviously, the video is presented in the email in such a way as to get American taxpayers fired up that the foreigners are taking our wallets for a ride and getting away with free medical costs. And it does a pretty good job of portraying the issue in exactly that light. We are informed of all the exact numbers of how much the hospital is spending on each issue (flights, dialysis treatments, legal fees, airlines tickets, etc).
However, as Sam pointed out, there are many numbers lacking (or most likely overlooked, or maybe even omitted). For example, how many Americans living in other countries are also privileged to these sort of benefits. We, as a country, would want other countries to take care of our citizens and administer whatever aid they would need and not coldly let them flounder or die. And yet, because we are (hmmm, conceited, self-righteous, ignorant, I’m not exactly even sure what the correct term is), we can’t see others in that same light.
I do agree that this is certainly an issue, and that freeloaders or people exploiting the system are clearly doing so wrongly and I’m not condoning their behavior in any way. But it is very interesting to consider the situation when the shoe’s on the other foot: we’re doing the exact same thing to other countries as well. It’s unfair for people to sit up on their pedestals and preach down on people for this issue when we’re just of guilty of it as other countries no doubtedly are as well.
I think more research should be done on the issue to find out exactly how many citizens have some kind of residency set up outside the boundaries of the United States. I think numbers should be crunched and we should explore the issue more before attacking others for exploiting our system. Even if we are losing more than we’re gaining, it may be due to inflation, or even if it isn’t, it still doesn’t make us any less guilty!
I mean, I know the economy is in the proverbial toilet right now, people are pinching pennies, and many people are living a little tighter and becoming more money conscious in order to survive. But when we’re dealing with this issue, and accusing people of this kind of problem when we’re clearly guilty of it as well, is just ignorant and wrong. Media isn’t really geared (especially a youtube video?) to show both sides of the issue, but people need to be more cognizant to this issue in its entirety before passing judgments on other people.
First off the information found in this blog is very eye opening. I know I recently had an occurrence of some bronchitis probably thanks to the cold winds of our Happy Valley. However the one part of the experience that frustrated me was the need to deal with insurance representatives to have to determine prices for different medications that I needed to be filled for prescriptions. I did not mind that I had to do this because I was grateful for my insurance. The aspect that made me very annoyed and uncomfortable was the fact that I could be asked to pay four different prices depending on where I had the medicine filled and if I could get buy on a generic. The difference in prices were astronomical for instance I could get a medication one place for two hundred and fifty dollars, but if I was able to have the doctor rewrite the prescription for a generic and go outside the university health services pharmacy and to a CVS I would only need to pay a mere twenty-five dollars. I think that the system needs to be made fair so that there is an even playing field for all.
As for Americans living in other countries and being without insurance, I am unaware of what is required in this situation is there a third party supplier of insurance such as an international plan, or is it just that when a person travels outside the region of the United States they become uninsured? However I was aware due to discussing outsourcing in a global purchasing and sourcing class the concept of medical tourism, in which Americans travel to other countries to have medical procedures done for a fraction of the cost. During discussing this in our class, it was also mentioned that certain companies were even considering paying a percentage of these costs because in the long run it saved them money as well.
I also agree with that idea that most cost allocations in hospitals are grossly inflated. However how did the system get to this point? Is the reason the costs are inflated is because they want to make money of the unsuspecting patient or the insurance company that is going to end up paying for these costs. If they are unrealistic why has the American people and government allowed them to stay in place?
I think that the situation needs to be rectified. If we are required to treat people without insurance, there needs to be a way to rectify their costs, without inflating the costs of all other individuals involved. Maybe we need to think more in a Good Samaritan perspective, if we see someone that is hurt and in need isn’t it the right thing to do to help them. Also from the perspective of the Golden Rule treat others how you would want to be treated. I am not saying that this isn’t a problem it definitely is a huge deal. I think there needs a way to solve this problem so that both parties can leave successfully. If people needed to be treated who do not have insurance, it shouldn’t cause all those who do have the ability to have insurance more.
We’ve heard it before; in news stories, during the political campaign, in newspapers and magazines. Health care has been an issue for many United States citizens for quite a while, and the costs of health care is where the problem lies. Of course, there are also these illegal immigrants who do not have health care just because they are not U.S. citizens. Before reading Sam’s blog and watching the video about the Florida hospital, I never really thought about the idea of giving free health care to illegal immigrants. Instead, most of my attention was on my own health care benefits and costs, along with my family. I agree that it is absurd how hospitals must pay out of pocket for those illegal immigrants to receive “free” services. But why is it just them?
If illegal immigrants across the U.S. are able to receive free services without the proper health care, then why should it be any different for U.S. citizens without health care? It seems to be a corrupt system where hospitals pay to help a sick immigrant and pay for the visit and costs as well. At the same time, a U.S. citizen without health care is given a hard time and a nice little hospital bill to go with it. On the other hand, I agree with the fact that if someone comes to a hospital looking for assistance, they shouldn’t be turned down, whether they be from that country or not. Like some people have already mentioned, this is the humanistic view of the situation. Imagine, though, if all U.S. citizens were doing what these immigrants without health care are doing. What if the people in our country were walking into hospitals looking for help, getting treated, and then walking out and back to their own lives, leaving the hospital to just dig deep in their pocket and pay the costs for health care? If that be the case, then why do we even bother having health care in the first place?
Health care can be expensive, there are no doubts on the subject, but think about what technology or items need to be used in order to provide you with the best help you can receive. This is why are costs are so high. I am not usually one to scrutinize our health care system and how it works, but this video and blog has kind of opened my eyes to a situation that I have not really paid much attention to. Going back to how health care can be expensive; we can look at this circumstance from an economic or financial perspective. Surely, if hospitals continue to pay the costs of health care for these immigrants and if they pay for those U.S. citizens without health care too, this will take its toll financially on the hospitals themselves. Eventually, it may be possible that funds for the hospital will run out or get low, making it very difficult for these hospitals to provide health care by means of professional help, medicine, or treatments. It could lead to the shutting down of many hospitals across the nation, which could make it difficult to find help locally for some citizens. Overall, the financial issues of the hospitals may force our government to put more money into these hospitals in order to keep them functional. This, in turn, would hurt our economy, and cause an already ailing financial system to possibly become worse.
Personally, I agree with what Sam said, that it is unreasonable that hospitals should have to pay for a foreigner’s health care costs out of pocket, but at the same time, they can’t really turn away someone in need. So what do we need to do? Honestly, I’m not sure. I know where I stand on the situation and how I feel about it, but I do not know what we can do to fix it. It’s going to take some planning, and hopefully the issue can be solved in the future. I guess all we can do right now is waiting and see what happens.
This post got me thinking about illegal immigration in general. I have always been unsure of my view on the subject. On one hand, we are the United States of America a country that has amazing liberties and opportunities that other countries do not provide. At one point we were open to anyone trying to make a better or at least different life for themself. My ancestors were those people and I’m assuming a majority of this class’s ancestors were in the same boat. When they came it wasn’t a problem to enter the country. If you survived the journey you were welcome, so why now do we have such strict laws? If we made it easier for these people to immigrate legally then it wouldn’t just be the US taxpayers putting into the pot, it would also be the immigrants who are reaping the benefits from our tax money. For most citizens from Latin America it’s extremely difficult to enter the US legally. My host family in Ecuador always talked about how hard it would be for them to just visit the country. I can guarantee that a lot of illegal immigrants would rather be legal. They just didn’t have the connections (nepotism you might say) to get the correct papers to get here. And once they do get into the country if they are legal, chances of getting a card to be able to work legally are pretty slim which then means they have no income and in turn can’t pay taxes. Maybe if we were a more welcoming country then there wouldn’t need to be resentment from taxpayers because everyone who was living here long-term would pay something. So basically, if the US was more on top of its shit when it comes to back-logs of application requests and laws for immigration, then maybe this wouldn’t even be an issue. Our country has an extremely high person: land ratio meaning space for the time being is not an issue. People may say that immigrants take away jobs from the US citizens. A lot of these jobs are 100% manual labor that most US citizens do not want to do like picking fruit all day and getting paid practically nothing, partly because of there illegal status. I guess I really am not on the fence about this issue. I think that the US needs to be friendlier and open their doors to others, just like they were once open to someone in our family. I’m guessing that the reason citizens of the US are not allowed to immigrate to most other countries easily is because of the restrictions we place on the other countries citizen who wants to enter the US.
This entry really leaves you with a lot to think about. The first thing that strikes me is that it is unfair for ANYONE, anywhere, whether it’s a citizen or not in the US or in Ireland or Mexico, or wherever, to get treated for healthcare without charge. How can it even be considered to be fair to have one person go into the hospital for free, and others go into debt for years because of it. Whether or not a person is a citizen should have no effect on whether or not they are billed for services. As a person whose family is in serious debt because of medical bills, this completely and totally outrages and infuriates me. It’s almost like if my family and I were illegal we wouldn’t have to pay the thousands of dollars we do for healthcare. What makes it fair for them to be treated for free?
What I don’t understand is, why, in the case of the Florida hospital, couldn’t they have just done what they do with any other patient and send a bill for the services? Why spend even more money on a return flight when you can just send the healthy patient on their way with a bill the same way they would with any other patient. The job of the hospital isn’t to send illegal aliens back to their country; it’s to treat them. I am NOT by any means saying that illegal aliens should be refused services and treatment, that would be completely unfair and unjust as well, I am just saying they should be treated the same way that a citizen would, and not get off for free.
It is also ridiculous that the hospital, out of all the other options, paid for the return flight home. Why? I just don’t understand it. Why use tax money to send this man home? He got here on his own, why pay for him to be returned. The man also must not have even wanted to go home, since his family is suing. They have money for lawyer fees, cant they afford to pay hospital bills? The whole situation just makes absolutely no sense to me and there is probably a lot more to it than what is shown on the clip.
Maybe the reason that the police are uninterested in the fact that there is an illegal alien in the hospital is because they have more important things to worry about. Why spend money on the illegal alien in the hospital when there is one selling drugs or doing some other horrible thing that warrants more attention. Being sick isn’t a crime, the hospital should just go about it in the right way. They should report the illegal alien, sure, but they shouldn’t expect anyone else to pay for it, and especially not to send him or her home.
Healthcare in this country is ridiculous. What could cost so much money? It’s like 20 dollars for aspirin, when in all actually, the 5 dollars you pay at the store is still too much; you know someone’s profiting off it. I’m not sure why these prices keep escalating. I am proud to be an American, but I admit we’re all pretty self righteous, so, let’s have a reality check. If indeed we’re so great, and life here truly is better than any other country in the world; like we’ve been trained to think, then why are there so many people in our country who cannot afford health care? And for that matter, why should the people who can afford it have to pay for it? It seems silly, when you really try to put aside your already formed opinions about healthcare and just ask yourself- is it right that everyone, just because they’re human, should be given the right to healthcare? And I think the answer to that is yes. It’s not like a bunch of immigrants are coming over here because they feel a life threatening disease coming on and want to waste American money- if that were the case I’m sure they’d go somewhere that provided it’s people with healthcare; not one that makes their people pay ridiculous amounts of money to survive. Living isn’t free. In my opinion health care is a right and money shouldn’t determine what kind of care you get or if you get any care at all. As for hospitals- take the hit. If you’re running a healthcare facility; I’m sorry but people who are dying will come there (that’s what it’s for,) and if a poor person from another country happens to be dying and your hospital is where they end up; sorry about your luck. This woman makes it seem as if these cases are bankrupting the hospital. Yeah it sucks, but if you’re running a hospital to make money (which I recognize almost everyone running hospitals is doing) then you should pick a different industry. I’d like to feel confident that the hospitals in this country actually care about the people in them. I want to believe that people in this country value all life, not just the life of Americans or people with money. I feel bad that hospital lost all that money, but maybe they should direct this argument more towards the people responsible for the constantly increasing and already intensely high cost of medical treatment, drugs, and equipment. If they weren’t trying to rip everyone off, they wouldn’t be losing so much money. I don’t have any sympathy for people who complain about money when they’re saving someone’s life, but I’m also not losing millions of dollars, so who am I to judge.
When I think about health care in this country, I think about my family in particular. I am very grateful for the life my parents have given me. They work extremely hard to pay for my college tuition, and my car insurance, and also health care. It is very easy for someone in my position to take for granite having a steady health care plan. However, I don’t need to look too far to find someone I know who doesn’t have health care. Three of my cousins do not have health care, one of them is twenty eight with two children who also don’t have health care. I look at the situation they are in and get scared. In these uncertain times of banks closing and people losing their jobs, I wander if the time will ever come when my father would lose his job and along with it, our health care plan. It is unbelievable the price of health care in this country. Playing sports in high school I was in doctors’ offices many times for broken ankles, concussions and a dislocated rib. The price of x-rays was enormous. When I hear of stories about health care I think of people being in my situation and not being able to do anything. Now in blog, it did talk about 4 million Americans who live over seas. For 3 years of my life, in 4th through 6th grade I lived in Europe in Budapest, Hungary. In those 3 years I did end up having to go to the hospital once for a broken wrist and although I believe my dad’s company paid for the bill it was a very different experience being in a foreign hospital. In these times of economic struggle, who knows what will happen to health care. Thousands of people are losing their jobs everyday and with that they are often losing their health care plans. My response to the problem of health care is one of unease because honestly I don’t know what is going to happen. I don’t know when and if we will ever dig ourselves out of these economic struggles and the amount of debt. I don’t know if the day will come when emergency rooms will have to start turning away numerous people because they themselves don’t have the money to help patients. We are living in a very scary time and problems like health care only add to the horror that this recession has caused. Unfortunately in years to come, health care might take a back seat to other issues as our government tries to repair this country. With banks closing everyday, people losing jobs everyday, citizens will not have the money to pay for basic needs let alone enough money to shell out for massive hospital bills. It is a scary time we are living in.
I am pretty torn on the whole illegal immigration issue. I know that a large percent of America’s work force is made up of illegal immigrants and thus, these individuals help greatly booster the economy. Simply kicking all illegal residents out of the country is not only cruel, but it would also negatively impact the productivity of the United States. Furthermore, I think that people who want to live in America should be allowed, to some extent. The US is a melting pot of individuals who all immigrated here at some point in their lives, usually fleeing religious or governmental persecution. So why should we deny this right to people now? On the other hand, I am really bothered by knowing that a large portion of the salary that I will earn in the future will go towards educating and providing health care to individuals who do not pay any taxes at all. This is an extremely unfair situation. However, I do understand both sides of the issue and I recognize that there is no easy solution to the problem
As a future health care worker, I cannot imagine refusing to treat someone because they are not a legal citizen. If a family rushes in an individual who needs surgery or treatment immediately, a doctor will not stop to make sure the person has proper documentation. The doctor will begin treatment immediately because his/her first concern is saving the patient’s life. If everyone had to prove that he is a citizen before treatment would be provided, many lives would be lost due to wasted time. Thus, I cannot blame the doctors or even the hospitals for this issue. But of course, a hospital will want to receive payment for the procedures performed. Without monetary return, a hospital cannot afford the equipment and services required to give adequate care to patients. I absolutely understand why this hospital is seeking reimbursement for the millions of dollars that it has lost. Healthcare costs are already grossly inflated in the United States, and millions of individuals are uninsured. This is where the extreme unfairness of this situation comes into play. How can hospitals treat illegal immigrants over legal citizens who have lived in the country for much longer? Clearly, this is a pressing issue that hopefully the Obama administration will address immediately.
I think the issue of providing health care treatment to illegal aliens stems from the larger issue of illegal immigration in general. They go hand in hand and one cannot be solved without the other. Health care is not the only area in which American citizens are affected by this; tax payers also pay inflated education taxes so that the children of illegal immigrants can go to school. This is another double-edge sword issue because would we want to refuse education to these innocent children and give them no opportunity for success in America? Maybe the government should make gaining US citizenship an easier task. However, until the government adequately addresses the issue of illegal immigration, we cannot expect a solution to the health care problem. Everyone needs to go to the doctor sometimes, even illegal aliens, and until we either crack down and drastically reduce the number of aliens, or relax and give them citizenship, we can expect to foot their medical bills.
I think the blog about the healthcare is very interesting. It creates a controversial conversation. Everything that Sam said in the blog was absolutely true. There wasn’t one thing I didn’t agree with. I think that it was wrong for those illegal immigrants to receive as much healthcare as they did. It seemed like they just drained us of our medical supplies for as long as they could until they were caught. The thing that got me was when the man discussed in the video got deported back to Guatemala and didn’t even have to pay any of it back. This was shocking and seemed a little unfair. I do understand how this situation can be upsetting to most U.S. citizens because some if it is coming out of our pockets. But, Sam gave a story of how he had to get medical care and all they asked him for was some blood and that was only if he didn’t mind giving him the choice. When Sam got his procedure it came out of the Mexicans pockets. It is a two way street. Sam also mentioned that U.S. citizens traveling, live, and work in other countries with the same situation occurring. I have never even thought about that until he mentioned it. Americans are so quick to point the finger at the other person when we in fact are guilty of the same thing in some way. So what do you do in situations like this? It is hard to tell. How can we get mad or ship immigrants back to wherever they are from when we are doing the same in their countries? It creates this dog eat dog or every man for himself ideal. We become selfish and only worry about us and how we benefit. We tend to forget or hide the truth. When we are pointing the finger we try to hide the other three pointing back at us. It seemed so easy for the woman in the video to testify against the situation at hand. I’m sure if she read this blog, she would have something to think about. When I say it is unfair, I think it is unfair for both people in the situation. It is unfair for the U.S. citizens in this case and the Mexican or any other immigrants when U.S. citizens do the same to them. Even though it is unfair for both people, the U.S. is a very manipulative country. The U.S. will never admit that it is unfair as you can see. It will continue to hide behind the mask. That’s the reality of the situation. Like we discussed in class, people are definitely unequal in this world. It has always been this way and sad to say probably will never change.
We all know that the cost of health care in the United States is ridiculously high. We also know that many other countries have a much better health care system than we have here in the United States. In economics we have been discussing health care and its rising cost in great depth for a few weeks now. It has been instilled in my mind that so many Americas cannot afford the proper health care and health insurance necessary in order to be treated if they become ill. Although I do not have a job yet, I will soon and it is extremely important this job offers me benefits that include health care coverage. Unfortunately, however, there are so many people that are not offered these benefits, which is why so many people are left without the proper health care coverage. This is a major problem we as Americans face and in this week’s blog we see an even bigger problem concerning this issue. The video displayed on the blog explains that there are illegal immigrants staying in hospitals for years and years and the reason they are able to stay is the result of our tax dollars. Initially after watching the video clip I was outraged because I know how high the cost of health care is and the fact that so much of our money is providing health care to these illegal immigrants imposes a huge problem. Also, the idea that they are receiving free health care, a free hospital stay, and then a free flight home is just downright unfair. However, as I continued to read Sam’s blog I began to see the other side of the situation. Like Sam says, we have to consider the millions of American people working and living in foreign countries, and most likely without health insurance. If they happen to become sick, these people will still be treated with the proper care and probably with little to no fees to pay at the end of the day. A perfect example of this is Sam’s appendix story. The doctors did not put up any fight about removing his appendix, which can become very serious if left untreated. In face, they only asked for one pint of blood in exchange for his services. So you see, it really is so important to look at both sides of a situation before we judge. And this goes for all situations, not just in the case of our health care system. Yes, I would be lying if I said I thought it was okay for these illegal immigrants to be staying in hospitals for years at a time and living off of our tax dollars. However, it would also be extremely wrong to just turn them away and deny them the treatment they need in order to survive. I can’t help but think that there has to be a better solution to this problem. I definitely would argue that immigrations should get involved, especially in the Florida cases that the video mentions. It is unfair for them to just shy away from the situation considering dealing with illegal immigrants is part of there job. Hopefully in time we will be able to come up with a solution to our ongoing health care problem. I definitely think that many changes need to be made regarding this issue because it is essentially affecting every single one of us.
In response to “Those undocumented Thieves,” I have to say that I had mixed feelings about this post/video. Medical care will always be an issue in this country and it’s a hard topic to discuss because there are so many varying opinions about what is right and what is wrong. For starters, I guess I don’t totally agree with sending the Guatemalan back to his home country simply because he was here illegally. You can make the argument that those who are here legally should be getting the health care and services that this country provides. However it also comes down to the fact that obviously the reason why this man came to the U.S. in the first place was, like most other immigrants, for a better life, for “the” life. He had family here who are obviously here legally. It also comes down to the fact that whether this man was legal or illegal, he was sick and needed treatment. We are talking about a human life here, and when I say this I see no color, race, gender, ect. And I don’t think any medical professional could not help treat this man just because he was an illegal alien. I find it rather outrageous that $30,000 was spent flying this man back home. The sad part is that this man is probably being flown back home to a hospital that will not give him the same quality treatment that the U.S. has given him. Now you might say that’s rude of me to comment about, for all I know perhaps it’s a great facility.
However, it also comes down to the fact that I also do not think its fair that illegal immigrants should be benefiting from our healthcare system especially since U.S. citizens are taking the brunt by having to pay for these healthcare costs. I know many people without healthcare in the United States, and it’s a sad fact. Its true that Americans who live overseas, and who use the healthcare of countries abroad probably aren’t paying as much as these illegal immigrants here. However, the United States (for the most part) has a great healthcare system with the latest in medical devices, services ect. (Of course this also depends what part of the country you are in). Our prices are inflated because we can provide these services at high quality.
Again, its not fair to be providing services to people who aren’t even residents of this country. However, I guess what gets me the most is that we are talking about human lives here and to me every one counts. I don’t think its right for this Guatemalan gentleman to not pay for any of his services here. He came to the United States and when someone chooses to live in the country of their choice you must adjust to changes- that includes the overall increase in the price of services.
Healthcare is very important and right now with these hard economic times many people simply do not have it. It is a necessity and people should be everyone’s right. Now, being provided services when you are on the brink of death is the human thing to do and should always be done. However, when that person becomes stable enough I believe that if they can’t pay for it, it must be discontinued. This brings me to illegal immigrants. They have no documentation of residing here thus they cannot have any type of healthcare. Like I said though, if they are on the brink of death and come to a hospital they should be treated immediately. It is unfortunate that as citizens, we have to “pick up the slack” and cover for them. Sam puts up a good point though; how many people living abroad are getting treated for illnesses funded by foreign tax payers. I’m sure that the total would probably equal or surpass the 100 million dollars owed to the healthcare services from illegal immigrants. I don’t really see a solution to this problem, as long as there are illegal immigrants there will be debt to healthcare for the treatment of them. As the woman in the video stated, she called the government to deport the illegal immigrants and they merely said they couldn’t do anything if there was no crime committed. Instead, healthcare had to use 30,000 dollars of their own money to deport the immigrants. I don’t believe they should have done this and then complained about how much money they are loosing. They didn’t need to deport the immigrants after they were treated. I do agree that the government should be more involved in dealing with these people. They should have come in to investigate what was going on instead of dismissing the problem until they committed a crime. We definitely need more governmental control over healthcare and the treatment of illegal immigrants. They need to justify what we should do in these situations as well as work out a plan on helping pay for the immigrants that are treated and escape governmental investigation. In other countries, the government pays for all healthcare for everyone. I know this is a democracy but we should really look into the benefits of having universal healthcare provided by the government. In places like England, this system works extremely well and everyone is covered. It almost eliminates problems like this. The main problem here is that we don’t know where to put the immigrants. Some of them have no family or friends that can deal with them so we have to deport them making the process much more costly and labor consuming.
It amazes me every week when I read one of Sam’s blogs that how in the very begging I see things very clearly one way and when I’m finished reading that I feel less sure about the issue. For example, the entry about illegal immigrants and healthcare: after watching the video I felt just as outraged as the Email above it told me I should. People mooching off OUR healthcare resources? I know only what I hear in the news about our healthcare and that it is not only expensive but also that many people don’t even have it. Then to hear that ILLEGAL immigrants are taking advantage of our system is infuriating. And what got me the most upset was when the illegal Guatemalan’s family filed a lawsuit against the hospital. WHATTT?!! Someone is getting sued for not breaking the law? This hospital followed our United States law and paid with their own money to deport someone that was illegal and undocumented living in our country. Now granted I know there are thousands of illegal immigrants in our country which I can feel compassionate for; everyone is searching for a better life. But in this case it affects ME, they’re using my tax money when they have no right to.
As I reached the bottom of Sam’s blog entry my feelings changed slightly towards my outlook on illegal immigrants taking advantage of our healthcare. I could put myself in the shoes of a tourist in another country and being seriously injured and having to stay in a hospital for a while. I would be grateful towards the country for taking care of me. But the fact that I’ve come to realize is that we would have been in the country legally and with a visa and/or a passport. We didn’t jump the border and mooch off of foreign country’s hospitals when we got hurt then sue that hospital for deporting us when they found out we weren’t a legal citizen. I think that instead of deporting the immigrant and getting sued, an option would be to have the country that the immigrant is from pay for the health services of it’s citizen. So without wasting thirty thousand dollars deporting each illegal immigrant you could just put it on the other country’s tab. And just send the country’s bills via postal mail with the amount they owe. It would be as simple as writing a letter. Also, our health care system sucks and I hope OBama reforms that because that would be really cool. Also to illegal immigrants, I feel where you’re coming from but seriously, just come into our country the correct way and we’ll be cool. I know it might take a while and be kind of frustrating but then you won’t run into these problems in the first place.
Concerning the video on health care for illegal immigrants, I am torn between both sides of the situation. Health care has become extremely expensive during these hard economic times and the idea of illegal immigrants receiving treatment for free may be a disturbing thought, but we must think of the circumstances. On one side of the equation, we have human beings who come to receive treatment because they are in dire need of these services. Morally, how can we turn these people away? How would we feel if the situation was reversed in another foreign country? A doctor’s job is to help those in need. Not only is it inhumane to refuse a sickly person treatment, but to also want to banish them from our country as well is absurd. These people are human beings. Although many people may not take the time to consider this fact, but these people are taking the “dirt” jobs that most if not all of us refuse to do. If not for them, the productivity of our economy would be greatly affected. In addition, if we were to live abroad in another foreign country as Sam had discussed and became ill would we not want to be treated? I know if I was in dire need of surgery or treatment, I would want to believe I had the right to do so. However, there is a difference between necessity and taking advantage of the system.
It is unnerving to think that a large part of our hard earned money is going towards paying for some of these illegal immigrants to receive free treatment. Many of us believe it is unfair that we should have to pay for their treatment. How can we decipher between those who actually need the services and those who are taking advantage of the “free treatment?” I believe everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt that the services are a necessity at the time, but if they are overstepping their boundaries and not leaving once they are on the route to becoming healthy, then that is not right. I would have to agree to some extent that it is unfair, but maybe all we need is a better solution. We need to have some type of system that would take into consideration both of these factors. We cannot turn down those in need, but we cannot also suffer for those taking advantage of the opportunity they are given. The situation presented in the video was outrageous because they did not even take into consideration the other side of the story. They made it seem like these immigrants were purposely cheating them out of their money and burdening them with their presence. Obviously many factors need to be taken into consideration to solve the healthcare problems our nation faces today, but this requires looking at it from both perspectives.
The video was interesting. I would expect many people to be upset by such an issue. Americans are all about “their” money, how they can make things better for “themselves”, what “they” are going to do next – it is a very egocentric life we live. Not to say that we are terrible, because there are a lot of good things that people do in this country for others. It a relative sense, our country has a reputation for building ourselves up, as a whole and individually. Americans have a lot of different things to deal with everyday – paying bills, doctor appointments, and whatever else. It is seen that money inevitably has control over our lives. The funny part is that we are choosing to live here in this country and we are making things the way they are.
And when it comes to health costs, Americans tend to have a lot of them. Even for the people that are “healthy”. We still have insurance costs, prescriptions, doctor visits, dentists, orthodontists, orthopedics, chiropractors – you name it. We need to have the best in everything. Though I don’t want to make it sound like there aren’t people out there who suffer from real health problems and are in a jam for money. Along with the money issue, (I read this somewhere – I can’t remember the exact numbers) a bunch of Americans tend to think of themselves as middle class when according to digits, they are actually a part of the upper class. I feel as though there is a trend appearing where people tend to not think much of the money they have when really they aren’t as bad off. Another issue is where people are spending their money. A lot of people take vacations every year or will buy a really nice car or put more money towards a bigger house. We never think to save money in case there are health problems down the road. On the other hand, the inflation rates in our country are higher and health care costs can easier get into five or six digits. We also have health insurance for select people only. Not everyone has health insurance like other countries. Now I don’t know much about how one thing affects everything else going on in the economy and what leads to what, but I think it would be a great idea to have health care for everyone without cost or with very little cost.
Anyways, I can’t really blame the Americans that go and live in another country. I myself have thought about it. I don’t want to send pessimistic, because Americans have done a lot of great things. For me, it’s not about being great (the best, the fastest, the smartest, the whatever); it’s about keeping it simple. I like having a simplistic lifestyle and by doing so, being able to actually do more for others – let’s make the world go round. Overall, it seems silly for people to be getting this upset. Maybe the problem isn’t the immigrants – maybe it’s us.
First off, I completely agree with Sam that the majority of those hospital bills are inflated with outrageous expenses. It is no surprise to most in this country that health care is too expensive. And I seriously doubt that illegal immigrants are the cause for the high cost of health care. If our immigration system wasn’t so congested then maybe some these patients would have been able to seek proper working papers. Better yet, if our border control actually worked, some wouldn’t even be here. When widening the picture even more I can say that if Mexico’s economy improved many Mexicans would stay there. In my opinion, they have every right to be here as I do. But it would be more beneficial to them if they went through the immigration process. Unfortunately, the system is backed up and there is little support for those wanting to start a life here. I have a friend who came here from Cyprus on a student visa while we were in high school. It has been five years and he still as no green card. And his parents are sister all have citizenship. If he does not receive it before college graduation, then he will have to be deported. I would hope our government would be efficient enough to keep an individual with a degree in this country. But as stated before, the system is backed up so many productive people like my friend are forced to wait and hope for their paper work. As the world’s infamous “melting pot” you would think America would be a little more welcoming of diversity and immigration. Historically speaking this has always been the case. The Italians, Irish, and Germans all received hostility from those who were already settled. I’m sure the Native Americans weren’t fans of the Europeans but they had every right to dislike them. And now it is the Mexican’s turn. Who knows, maybe in fifty years well be complaining about Canadians crossing from the North. Our health care system has been crying for change for years now. I recently read and article that said we spend a great deal of money on treatment versus prevention. Something about this doesn’t settle well with me. Instead of draining our money and creating a business out of it, we should treat it as public duty and put more resources towards prevention. Since obesity in youth is on the rise, I am sure health care will rise with the aging of that generation. The way it is being run right now it is barely working, and something needs to be done so it can work efficiently. Immigrants are not the reason for high health care costs, our policies are.
After reading the blog for today and watching the video pertaining to health care and the treatment of illegal immigrants at our American hospitals, I had several mixed emotions. Prior to watching the video and reading for today I had very negative views regarding illegal immigrants and providing health care to them when they are sick or in need of treatment. I was always one to agree with the facts that only tax paying Americans should be allowed to receive any type of health care because we should be entitled to reap the benefits of the huge amount of money we put back into this country. Meanwhile people who illegally sneak into this country and find ways to make money get to keep everything they make for whatever they choose to do with it.
After watching this video and reading the blog I began to think about how shallow and lifeless our country has become. The meaning of life put into perspective is so much more important than any amount of dollars. I realized that I to, am guilty of this mindset and really tried to put everything into perspective. I think Sam touched on this perfectly when he shared his story of the Mexican hospital that simply asked him to donate blood in return for a major surgery they provided to him. I feel that we as Americans are so caught up in our own worlds that we only care about ourselves in the end. We have lost touch with the meaning of life and how important everyone on this planet really is. Is it really worth letting someone die or live with permanent bodily damage just because we have to shell out a few dollars, and just because that particular individual happened to illegally enter our country in an attempt to provide a better life for themselves and their family? Have we as Americans really become that self absorbed in our own worlds that innocent lives are at risk while we use money as our only excuse?
I can’t say that I agree with having to use my money to help save the lives of illegal immigrants but after putting everything into perspective and seeing what other countries do I couldn’t help but feel bad for my ways of thinking and my views on this subject. I tried to put myself into the shoes of one of these unfortunate immigrants and I found that it is extremely difficult. Just seeing how quick the Mexican hospital was to help Sam with his surgery and what little they asked for in return really made me disgusted with our country. As I mentioned above I feel that our country has totally lost the meaning of life while being so self absorbed with ourselves. After looking at this whole situation it is very sad. There are people in our own country who can’t receive health care let alone these illegal immigrants. It is a sad situation and one that we must find a way to correct. Everyone is deserving of health care and the abilities to be treated by hospitals when they are needed. I hope that some day we can find a way to mend the selfish thoughts of our country and provide health care to everyone, because everyone deserves it, while at the same time protecting the hard earned money we have made to support ourselves and our family.
I’m going to start off this article by saying that I have no hard feelings for illegal immigrants in the world. I do not feel like they are taking our jobs, and I feel like that as long as they’re being productive in society then they should be able to stay. However, when it comes to healthcare I feel like it is unfair that they don’t pay for it. In general, I feel like they should be taxed in some way because we are paying a lot of money in taxes. It was interesting to read the article after watching the video on the illegal immigrants in hospitals. I definitely feel like anyone who comes in the hospitals in America should be treated for whatever they need, however I feel like there should be a way for them to pay for their services. The article was especially interesting because it made me think in a new way about the healthcare system. It explained about how some Americans who are currently in different countries are being treated by doctors and are able to walk away with a simple thank you or a donation of a pint of blood. As opposed to being in America, with the inflated health care prices people are expected to pay millions of dollars for visits to the hospital if insurance isn’t covering a person. As far as what the video talked about, I feel like the doctors are doing the right thing with the illegal immigrants. There gets to a point where a certain amount of debt is owed and I think it’s kind of insane that essentially, it is coming out of the taxpayer’s pockets. I think that once a patient is deemed healthy again they should be sent back to where they’re from, debt free. In places such as Canada who have universal healthcare, I doubt they are faced as much with situations like these because everyone is covered. We really need a system like that in America, but I’m pretty sure it’s too late to implement a completely new system. The costs alone of switching the system would probably be outstanding and not worth it. Another way we can fix the problem of illegal immigrants using the healthcare system is to provide jobs to the people once they’re healthy. As I came up with that idea the disposable people book crossed my mind. IF the illegal immigrants got a job, it would have to be legitimate and not result in bondage slavery. Also, if they owe money it should not be a ridiculous inflated price. I just feel like the American healthcare system in general is faulty, and we should be trying harder to assist people with less cost on us.
I love reading the blog each week because it usually opens my eyes to a viewpoint that I would otherwise not notice or acknowledge. I was oblivious to the fact that the number of American citizens living outside of the country was totaling over four million people. I also did not realize that when these American citizens seek health care abroad, they usually are granted by the host country with their best interest in mind first, payment for services second. The appendectomy for a pint of blood (at the patient’s discretion) completely blew my mind when I read it. In the United States it seems as if this policy is backwards, or at the very least simultaneous. That is why most people get themselves in an uproar when hearing of incidents that the video embedded into this blog refers to. I agree that many medical expenses are extremely inflated when reported and that $1.5 million in medical bills may in reality total maybe a quarter of that amount. But the question is where to draw the line? It is my opinion that if someone is in desperate need of immediate healthcare (especially if it is a life or death situation), they should be granted what they need, no questions asked. A human life is not expendable. But it is also my opinion that after the necessary treatments or procedures have been administered, that they should be released to the care of a family member, friend, or their home government. We have a healthcare crisis of our own in the United States and we need to take care of our own before we start granting multiple-year stays to illegal immigrants, even if American citizens would be granted that privilege abroad. In tough economic times, I can actually see this problem begin to solve itself naturally. It is a fact that the current recession is putting a lot of people out of work, and a chunk of these people are illegal immigrants who were working to send remittances home to their families. When these people begin to lose their jobs and are not able to find another one relatively quickly, many have no other choice but to return to their home country out of necessity for survival. Granted this is a temporary fix because the economy will eventually stabilize and these people will return, probably in greater numbers than when they left. I think the solution to this problem involves a combination of compromise and education. Like I mentioned earlier, healthcare needs to be granted to save a life or prevent a serious situation from becoming fatal, but there is a point where if nothing more can be done, we need to care for our own first. Secondly, I think that if citizens were made aware of how their countrymen are treated abroad compared to how we look at illegal immigrants in the U.S., our general harshness may lessen.
After watching the You Tube clip discussing the problem of illegal aliens running up huge hospital bills without having the means to pay, I have mixed emotions. This is certainly not one of those clear-cut problems with one obvious answer. I believe that it is the responsibility of any hospital, and any doctor to treat whomever asks for help regardless of their ability to pay. That is what these people are trained to do and when they take the Hippocratic oath they are swearing to do no harm. Turning away patients because they are too poor or illegal would constitute doing harm. The argument is that illegal immigrants also don’t pay taxes so they are truly not contributing in any way to the services they are receiving. In contrast poor people who are legal citizens may not be able to pay their hospital bills but the fact that they pay taxes means that they are contributing a little. Unfortunately, there is just not enough money to go around and what many people want to see happen is for illegals to be denied medical attention so that poor people can be treated without draining the hospital of all of their money. This then places the burden not on the hospital administration that has no day-to-day interaction with the patients, but on the doctors and nurses to look sick people in the eye and tell them that you can’t help them. It is easy for those on the outside of the situation to say that this is the right thing to do. But put yourself in the shoes of the hospital staff or the patient for that matter and suddenly you perspective will change. However this does not mean that nothing needs to be done. The draining of hospitals resources is a problem that needs to be addressed immediately. I disagree that because Americans sometimes receive free healthcare elsewhere we should then bestow that unlimited kindness on others. Who is to say that every time an American gets treated for free in another country that doesn’t hurt place a burden on the citizens there. If other countries don’t want to deal with the problem than that’s fine for them but it is clearly not working for America anymore. Perhaps resources need to be reallocated so that a greater amount of money goes into the healthcare system. Or maybe more attention needs to be paid to those who have long advocated the benefits of a universal healthcare system. These are just a few of the many ideas that have been tossed around when discussing how to help America’s hospitals from becoming overburdened. However, the ultimate goal should always be to find a way to aid all of America’s inhabitants, not just its citizens, in receiving the best healthcare available.
I think it is pretty amazing that other countries pay for your surgery or medicine when their resident is sick. It should be that way. A country has an obligation to take care of their own citizens, unlike the United States of America. No wonder people Americans are living somewhere else! Since they cannot afford to get healthy, they go somewhere else. However, I think it is wrong, for example if an American is in Mexico and does not have to pay for their treatment. They are not a resident of that country and they are taking away the people of Mexico's chance of getting better where they are mostly poor. Americans have the money and should pay their own treatments. I am the worst person to argue with at a debate because I always say 'it depends' or that you cannot solely agree to a 'yes I agree' or 'no I do not agree'. So on one hand, a country's citizens, especially of that of a poor one should not have to pay for their medical expenses, however as human beings and taking care of each other, medical treatments should be at a low cost. It is really sad if a, let us say, that a Mexican citizen is refused to have a minor (or major) treatment because and American was there instead. Those who know ,e really well, I am completely against the idea of 'white power'. Most of the time I am not fond of Americans and their culture. Although some of my most closest friends are white, they are not the typical white friends but are more international in some sense. Anyway, I am against any American receiving free treatment or living abroad for medical benefits. I do not want to live in the United States when I have a career, I plan to live abroad but not for medical benefits (more like the cultural and societal benefits). Anyway, unless you are part of the low middle class or poor class in America, I think it is ok if you receive free or a low treatment cost. Yes, I am NOT making any sense. My arguments are all over the place and have no logics, well have logics but no organization. So in another sense, it i about money. I hate the fact that rich people are receiving numerous benefits and poverty and poor classes are starting to rise. Therefore, anyone who does have money should pay for these 'abroad' medical payments. I know what I said does not make any sense but I guess that is ok for this soc journal. But overall, it is heartbreaking to hear that citizens of third-world countires are denied of medical treatments. How can a country turn their back on a humn being's health?
I think it is ridiculous that legal citizens of the United States who have been burdened with the inflation of the economy and increased taxes are paying so much money for health care to be spent on illegal immigrants. They are in America riding off the benefits of this country without having to pay any costs for it. Most people work very hard and earn their money so that they can spend it on things they need and things like health care to protect themselves or their families, but what gives illegal immigrants the right to “steal” that well earned money and use it for themselves when additionally they do not even get taxed for anything because everything goes undocumented. The bills that citizens of the United States pay keep getting more and more expensive and I think it is wrong for thousands or millions of dollars to be put towards illegal immigrants. On the other hand, yes, there are about four million people living in other countries that get taken care of in the same manor, but, that is something for that country to decide how they want to deal with those issues or if it is even an issue at all. I don’t know much about the global economy or how ours in America differs from those of other countries, but I do know that health care is extremely expensive in the United States and therefore the money put into our healthcare system should be dealt with very cautiously. Also, I think it is absolutely wrong that authorities turn their backs towards the fact that illegal immigrants are in Florida, or wherever they may be. When the hospital called authority figures to report these illegal immigrants, simply being illegal immigrants was not illegal enough for them to do anything about it. How can you regulate the borders and manage our population and the population of illegal immigrants in the United States by only doing something about the illegal immigrants who commit a crime? That is treating them as if they are a citizen, which is wrong. If they are in America illegally, that is an issue and should be enough of a crime in and of itself. Despite the negative connotations this issue of health care and illegal immigrants has brought up, I do want to applaud the hospital in Florida for using their own money to take care of these patients, despite the illegalities of their being there. It is morally and ethically the right thing to do to help a patient in need, and I think that despite the high cost of taking care of these patients, when it comes down to it, we are all human.
When the issues of illegal aliens comes up, some people are so set on not having them in our country and returning them back to their country of origin. Some people even go as far as to say they do not want legal immigrants in the USA. Sometimes what they fail to do is put themselves in the position of the immigrant. The illegal immigrants are not trying to steal anyone’s jobs, they are simply trying to live a better life for themselves and support and family that they cannot even have the privilege to be around most of the time. Often times, these illegal and legal immigrants are the ones that are helping our economy. Some people get too caught up in ethnocentrism that they fail to see the world from another person’s or country’s perspective. Other countries are not as fortunate as ours and we should be trying to help others, not kick them out of what is “ours”. Many people pride themselves on the great freedom and opportunity in America, but fail to share that with others. Therefore freedom and opportunity are diminished and some people fail to accept that.
The blog brings up some interesting points that I never really thought about. There are always different views to every situation and the most obvious ones are the ones that everyone focuses on, but there is usually a lot of underlying aspects that go into a situation. It was interesting to note that Americans living abroad can receive health care and most Americans are fine with that. It is okay for Americans to take other people’s health care but when some one from another country ties to use ours, it suddenly becomes a problem. The main issue that I thought was interesting was the issue of health care itself. Yes there is a need for money and a need to pay for things, but if prices were more moderate and reasonable, maybe health care would not even be the big problem that it is. Although it was generous of the hospital to treat the person and send him back to his home country, they still raised his bill as much as they could and seek to gain the money, out of a person who they know does not have those kinds of funds. If the cost of health care was not so ridiculous, maybe this would not even be an issue because some people would not care sense they are not paying so much taxes for it. I understand that it is upsetting that a person pays for taxes for health care and an illegal alien uses a lot of the money, but the fact is that some of the people who are upset would not be as upset if it were an American using the money. Illegally in the country or not, the person is still a human being and people should be more willing to help. Just because he is not American does not reduce his worth as a person.
In my opinion, I think that the health care facilities in the United States should not treat “illegal immigrants” and those who have no money to pay for the treatment. However, there is a simple solution to this problem which includes the home countries of the illegal immigrants paying for the health care. Since these immigrants are flown back to their home countries anyways, the governments must be getting notified of what is happening. Some health care organization can put a world system in place that basically forces the home country of a person to pay for the health care services that are done in another country. Because this type of thing is happening in many countries around the world, it shows that one country helping people from other countries is essentially a mutual agreement, and that this system should not be too hard to establish.
If the system I proposed is not put into place around the world, I feel that countries should not be obligated to provide health care to those who are unable to pay the fees. It is not fair for citizens of any country, not just myself in the United States, to be paying other people’s health care bills, especially those who are in a country illegally. The argument that there are approximately two million uninsured Americans living in other countries who are provided health care is irrelevant to this issue. Although these Americans are uninsured, I can be almost certain that nearly all of them could afford to pay for the health care that they are provided in their respected foreign countries. More importantly, with more certainty I can say that none of these Americans are in a foreign country illegally. The issue of someone being “illegal” in a foreign country is the big difference here. Someone could use the argument that Americans are provided health care in foreign countries, just as foreigners are provided health care in the United States, if either both groups of people were illegally in the countries or both groups were legally in the countries. Due to the majority of immigrants who are receiving health care in this country being illegal, the argument that Americans are provided heath care in foreign countries cannot be considered because these Americans are not illegally in the foreign countries. It makes no sense to me how one can justify an illegal person receiving something free.
Of course, there are situations where I think an illegal immigrant should receive health care in the United Sates, but there must be methods in place for our country to receive some type of reimbursement. Whether it is the home country of the foreigner paying the bill, or the foreigner doing work to equal out the payment, I do not want to be paying the health care bill of anymore foreigners who are here in the United States.
I think that the response of health care is pretty dead on. It goes along with the theme that we have been speaking of all semester, which is essentially just knowing the whole story. Not being one sided. I thought Sam’s response was pretty indicative of both sides. Healthcare is a hot topic in the U.S., however I think that there is no solution that is going to please every single person. If we provide universal health care in the U.S., then people believe the quality of health care will go down among millions of other controversies occurring. However if we keep the system as it is, it is too expensive, not everyone has access to it, and many people die daily because of lack of or poor insurance. I am not going to lie, when I watched the youtube video I was a bit distraught for a second. What made me mad was the fact that the woman claimed that she had reported the fact that these individuals in these hospitals were illegal immigrants, and that unless these illegal immigrants committed a crime, that they really did not care. This tends to bother me, not so much because of having to pay for the health care, but more just the issue of what is being done about illegal immigration.
Immigration is an extremely complex problem that will probably never truly be fixed. However I believe that if we have too many illegal immigrants with no legal discourse if they are reported, then it demeans the efforts of the immigrants who went through the great lengths to become a citizen of this country. The process to become a citizen is grueling, and there may be problems with it, however the fact that some are going through the process and not others is the part that seems truly unfair to me. I know that if I were trying to get into another country, and waiting years, not months or days, but years in order to get there, and then there was someone who snuck, that I would be mad at that person. And then for the government to find out about the person that cheated their way in, is a slap in my face, and rewarding the cheater. I do not think that illegal immigrants are bad people or evil, however I do believe that if they are discovered there should be some sort of discourse. And again, maybe there is a problem with the system in which to become a citizen, but there needs to be a change somewhere.
So I’m in a class now about the health care system and it’s interesting, I’m learning a lot and it’s nice to be informed about it since it’s such a hot topic in politics at the moment. While I’m mad that my money, my tax money, will pay for some immigrant to get an emergency surgery, it’s the right thing to do. And I greatly appreciate that Dr. Richards pointed out that the same would happen had I needed emergency surgery in Canada. Since we Americans are so against the government running anything, we can’t have socialized health care and people wait til the brink of death before they go to the ER and incur thousands of dollars in debt to hear nothing can be done. Many countries have health care for everyone, not the lucky who can afford it or have a company that can. The only people that started out here were Native Americans so they are the only people that can get mad about immigrants using their tax dollars. I think that lady in the video was making up that $30,000 price tag that went along with sending that man back to Guatemala, that just seems like a gross overestimate. I also think it was completely unnecessary to send him back. He did incur a lot of debt but I’m pretty sure he didn’t choose to be sick or need all of that. People say that everyone should be treated the same, unless you’re an immigrant who clearly just steals money from Americans and does nothing to earn it. While we do have excellent resources for health care, it’s incredibly expensive and many people in this country aren’t insured, yet we still pay for these people to get the help they need if they can’t afford it or simply aren’t covered under a plan from their employer. If an illegal Mexican child and an American child both need emergency surgery to get their appendix out or they die, what would people say then? The American child deserves it more because he was born in the right place? There are many problems with our health care system, the main problem being many just aren’t insured and can’t hope for coverage anytime soon. Instead of worrying about those illegal immigrants who needed to see a doctor and did incur debt, we should worry about the millions of Americans who wait until they can’t anymore. I think this is just another reason people have to hate immigrants, people who come to this country hoping for a better life and work twice as hard as we do and pray they don’t get caught. People need to stop blaming other people for the problems our government created and can’t seem to fix.
When I watched the video in which the woman spoke about illegal immigrants receiving health care without paying, I was angry at first. I immediately thought that it was lazy and greedy of these undocumented aliens coming to this country and expecting everything to be handed to them at the expense of American taxpayers. Once I continued reading the blog, however, I began to see the situation from a new perspective. Living here in the U.S., we can easily point fingers at people who come into our country to live illegally. Over and over we hear about the illegal immigrant who doesn’t pay taxes, yet wants to stay here in this country with his family and receive employment and healthcare. Obviously, these stories are frustrating to hear. However, now I see that these stories are only ONE side of a much broader picture. These stories are all we hear, and these people are all we see, because we are unaware of the many Americans living abroad. Before I read Sam’s story about his visit to a Mexican hospital and the many examples of Americans receiving treatment around the world, I can honestly say that I never gave any thought to what kind of health care I would receive in another country. I guess that I have always assumed that I would be able to pay for it and wouldn’t have to rely on the citizens of whatever nation to cover my bills with their tax dollars. This is the wrong way to think about it. What if I needed an emergency surgery, like Sam did? And honestly, I don’t know how I would expect to pay for something like that – I know that health care costs are astronomical.
If I worked in a hospital, I would be unable to turn anyone away without first receiving the care they needed. While the hospital representative claimed that they did not turn patients away, they now refuse to rest until they are reimbursed for the bills that the immigrants accumulated. They helped these people only to put them and their families through hell simply because they are unable to pay. Is this the kind of country that the United States really wants to become? When I read about how other nations help Americans without question, I was really touched. It makes the U.S. look like a country full of selfish, greedy brutes. It is the most outright disregard of the Golden Rule that I have ever seen. The hospitals should consider themselves lucky to live in a country that allows them so many freedoms, while there are many people who struggle in their countries of origin and long to come to the U.S. to gain some its advantages. I’ve found that it’s nearly impossible for Americans to put themselves in the shoes of others. This is a large part of our problem. Opening ourselves up to another point of view is really the first step. The United States should really begin to consider compassion and human life to be of a much greater value than any dollar amount.
The problem with this train of thoughts of illegal immigrants coming into America and getting free health care being a big problem, is that you are framing the problem totally wrong. To begin with I am of the idealistic sort that believes that every human being is entitled to have health care. I know there are millions of people in this country that don’t have medical insurance struggle economically because of it. The thing is, America has more than enough money and resources to pay for everything including health care. Its not Americas job to go implement health care around the world but at the same time it is not Americas job to go and take over countries and kill hundreds of thousands of people in the process. America also is spending billions upon billions of dollars trying to revitalize a foreign country in ineffective ways. America should rip out all of military industrial complex and the war on drugs and put those funds into education and health care. America would also be able to revitalize social security and the welfare system. America would also be able to start the process of getting out of the debt George bush got this country into. That is not being outlandish either. Few people realize the magnitude of the money that America spends on developing weapons, methods and people into killing machines.
Another thing that the government could do to greatly reduce medical costs in this system is figure out ways to run effective campaigns to teach people preventative health care. This societies focus is strictly on what to do after a problem has arisen but if you learn how to live a healthy lifestyle it is much less likely that you would need the expensive health care latter. There is a lot of obesity in America today, especially child hood obesity, that if stopped could prevent a lot of heavy costs on the health care system. We could also have a much heavier reliance on riding bikes. You would get a good cardio workout on way to work every day and the air would be cleaner.
I have some real doubts about the credibility of this woman’s account of the Guatemalan who they spent 1.5 million dollars. I just don’t know enough, maybe she is right but I would need much more evidence. I do know that the first thing that hospitals ask people when they enter the er is if they have health insurance or not. I have heard about cases of homeless people being taken out of a hospital in a ambulance and put back on the street. I do not trust that women because she represents a corporation that has no real interest in serving humanity but has a strong interest in serving her investors bottom line. It is frustrating to me that so many of the problems in the world today could have such simple solutions. It also suck that simple solutions have to be so hard. People are lazy assholes and would make up a million excuses for not riding a bike to work every day. So many jobs are dependent on the military industrial complex that changing that system would be damn near impossible. I get a 75% discount on college because the military gives grants to penn state that fund my dads research. Most of all though no one cares about a poor brown Guatemalan ( a Guatemalan who probably got put of work growing coffee by an immense multi national industrial farm in brazil that could lower the price while destroying the environment.)
Obviously I was shocked immediately after reading this article and watching the YOUTUBE clip, as I am sure many in Soc. 119 were. I definitely agree with where sam richards is coming from when he expresses that there are always other factors to be considered especially when considering a situation such as this. The very first thing that came to mind after reading the article was that this situation does not, even more so should not, be directly related to the fact that these people receiving care are illegal immigrants. The first thing I contemplated was the prices and outrageous amount of money this one guy seemed to accumulate in just two years. Over a million dollars just to take care of one guy? Why are these prices so high? Personally I have had experience and am aware of how tremendous hospital bills can accumulate to be and you cannot help but ask yourself, “what the hell could have really cost that much? Why is it so much?” Unfortunately I do not know the exact reasoning behind this question but I feel that this is and should be the main focus upon finishing the article, not the fact that some illegal alien got away without paying a big time hospital bill after receiving the care. In a perfect world, I would recommend that hospital care be more geared toward a sense of global care, instead of having the complications of dealing with health care from border to border. This would, in theory, totally eliminate this entire problem of who owes what, who wants to be reimbursed, and being totally denied care all together just because you do not have the right papers to prove citizenship. I would like to know what happened to the man upon returning to his home country? Did he go back to the hospital? I would also like to know just how this lady wants to go about getting reimbursed? Who should have to pay? In my eyes, no one should be responsible for receiving health care due to the fact that it may come down to life and death and what determines that now? A bill and a paycheck? Personally I find that to be unreasonable and it should be every human beings right to receive care if in need. I am sure that I am being biased in this situation but I cannot help but to be outraged by health care costs and how making a simple trip to the hospital could put you in debt for the remainder of your life. Is it really reasonable that a sick person should have the burden of a bill that can potentially be over a million dollars?
Healthcare is such a confusing and frustrating topic to discuss. On one hand, we have a horrible health care system where millions of Americans are in large amounts of debt, and illegal immigrants are walking away debt free. On the other hand, we have Americans being treated in hospitals in other countries and not being asked to pay anything…or at least not as much as they would pay in America.
Well to both I say, it’s just their policy. That is, it is our policy to make people pay out the wazoo for good health care, while in other countries it’s their policy to help people even if they don’t have the means to support the care they receive. If it is America’s policy that people pay for every aspect of the care they receive, then anyone who receives that care should have to have to pay. I absolutely do not think that it’s fair that these illegal immigrants got to walk away debt free. My brother currently does not have healthcare insurance. So not only does he have to pay for his medical debt, but now he is going to have to pay for the illegal immigrants who were sent home for free. They wanted to live in our country, they should abide by our rules and laws and policies…including paying for good healthcare. The same goes for the policies in other countries. If Americans want to live in or visit other countries, and require healthcare, we should abide by their rules and laws and policies. I also find it incredible that in America, you have to pay for even a bag of ice when you stay in the hospital. But in Mexico, all they asked of Sam was to donate a pint of blood. So this situation of healthcare and immigrants seems to be a sticky one with no right answer.
In the past few years healthcare has been a big issue in America. Healthcare was one of the most highly discussed issues in the 2008 election. It was reported that 47 million Americans are currently without healthcare according to the Obama Campaign. I am concerned that while these Americans are unable to receive healthcare, there are illegal Immigrants who are receiving the treatment without a fee to pay. These Americans that don’t have healthcare are paying their taxes for illegal immigrants to receive treatment and to be sent back to there country for free. The American People are paying for all of this!!!That is something that I can’t believe. I am currently insured under my parent’s insurance so I don’t really have to worry about paying for healthcare but one day I will and I don’t think it’s right to pay for someone else’s medical bills. It’s not fair to the American people. If we are going to allow illegal immigrants not to pay for their medical treatment then the American people shouldn’t have to pay for their medical attention also. We should get healthcare for free. Healthcare should be universal. The most unbelievable part was the stories that was reported from the Florida Hospital Representative for the man that was from Guatemala who receive 1.5 million in medical attention and then another 30,000 to be sent back to his country. Now what makes me really upset is now the family is suing the hospital because they felt that their family member was disrespected. Why are they suing the hospital who paid for his medical bills and give him a free ride back to his country? Now if the family had to come out of there pocket then they would have been mad. The fact that their family member got free medical care when most Americans have to pay their health insurance is not right. Another part of the story is shocking is when children are born to in the United Stated and their parents are illegal immigrants. I’m sure the hospital has to cover the delivery and birth of these children. The children are United States citizens but not the parents. Do the parents think giving birth here in American is there ticket to becoming a citizen? I don’t know but we need to come up with a solution with this problem. I do agree that no one should be turned away when it comes to medical treatment. But when you have Americans that are working so hard to pay for healthcare and then you have Americans that don’t have healthcare at all and illegal immigrants come and have the Americans pay for their bills is not right. In my opinion we should not be paying for someone else medical bills. This is too much for the American people. The American people have suffered enough economically and we need a change.
The phrase "when we point one finger at someone there are three pointing back at us" is so true. Basically I think what Sam is trying to say is that even though "illegal immigrants" get hurt, injured, or sick in America and essentially need help... in return when we as Americans are overseas, even though we are not illegal, if we do get hurt we are also helped with no significant pay. Like Sam said, his pay was a pint of blood which is more like a donation not a set payment.
It is a shame that "illegal immigrants" get a free ride to the hospital with no worries because the goventment and federal authorities don't even mind if the immigrant is at the hospital as long as no legitimate crime is taking place. However, being illegal in the first place is a crime. That makes me upset and when I think of this situation I think of the many Americanized situations like in the movie "John Q". In this movie the son of the Denzel Washington had an oversized heart and needed a transplant; however the family didnt have the funds for it even when they raised money, sold personal belongings, and received donations. In the end, because it is a movie, the boy ends up getting help because of his courageous father and his methods to get his way by any means necessary without the money. But in cases like illegal immigrants and foreigners not having to worry about these issues because the hospital serves everyone and can't turn them away, why wouldn't we AS CITIZENS be upset? I mean 1.5 million dollars in hospital bills and help to get back to your original country is OUT OF CONTROL.
Why is that allowed? And why help someone who is not a citizen even more so than a citizen. All of these health plans and rules are contradicted when I look at my health plan and insurance which in the first place I am lucky and blessed to have. Maybe there should be some type of limit to debt in hospital bills or the federal government should care more about it. Like this is our taxes, our money, our support, which is replenished through the help of someone who hasn't even earned the right to our country's pleasures. I mean when we study abroad, etc. it is all under a program and we pay for our needs, but what happened to Sam just shows that other countries and their ideas of payback and help are different.
It feels like they are taking advantage but if you have brain damage and you are at the hospital long enough to have a bill as high as reaching the millions... than quite frankly you probably don't know what you are doing to hurt the American people in the first place and it is for the best. The guy had no family, friends, NOTHING... it's crazy how someone who have nothing and are aliens and are equivalent to someone on the streets of New York City (poor person) and still they get better care than a citizen. CRAZY!
I don't know how these free cases are going to cease, but if there are ways to limit them so it is reasonable then that would be marvelous so Americans and vice versa won't feel used...
Healthcare has become a big issue in the United States and a touchy one for a lot of people. Personally, I do feel that there was some in wrong in what I heard in the video. I do not think it is wrong that these illegal immigrants were given healthcare and were taken care of. I would expect that if I was in a different country and I do believe that it is the correct thing to do. However, I do not think you can compare the cases in the video to an appendectomy (which Sam did in this blog). Sam’s appendectomy, as he stated, required a three-day stay in the hospital. The woman in the video is talking about several cases in which people stayed for around two years, specifically 760 days in one case. That is over TWO HUNDRED FIFTY time as long. These situations are incomparable. She also talks about how they were (at the time of the video) treating six different illegal patients for dialysis, each once every three days. I understand what Sam was trying to do, by saying that other countries give care to non-citizens as well, but the scenarios are completely different. I am not against giving non-citizens emergency healthcare, but how far does it go? How much money do the hospitals have to pay out of pocket? Also, I do not think it is right what the immigration office is doing about this. The woman claims that when she has treated an illegal immigrant, she has notified authorities and that they don’t want anything to do with it. After the illegal patient is treated, I think that they should be brought back to their country or some other action should be taken to uphold our laws. This woman says that the federal government doesn’t want to bother unless they have committed a crime, but being an undocumented citizen is a crime and should have its consequences.
Also, Sam talked about American citizens living in other countries, saying that there are around 4 million of them and that half are insured by their businesses and the other half are uninsured. I don’t think we can make this bold claim; I think some of the remaining 2 million people have insurance or if not, at least the money to pay for their medical bills. I would even say that half of that 2 million people probably have duel citizenship and pay taxes to the country that they are in. Just because someone is a US citizen and living in a different country, it does not mean that they are illegal immigrants in that country. As the woman in the video said, there are hundreds of millions of dollars each year given to illegal immigrants in hospital bills and that money is coming from taxpayers. If I am going to pay someone else’s medical bills, I think that at least the right actions should be taken with that person.
Health care has become a major worry for each individual living in the United States. It is nearly demeaning to see immigrants get “free” healthcare and even a free trip back to their own country. But If you were a doctor, could you turn away a person in dire need? The answer for most should be no, it is morbid to think that way. While growing up, we were taught the Golden Rule: “Do for others as you would want others to do for you.” Sure, many Americans are outraged by this controversial situation, but what happens when the story is flipped and you need medical healthcare in another country, but do not have the proper insurance. Sam made an incredible point, and not many people can see this side of the picture. The thing that is not right about this situation is: if an American were truly sick and they needed medical attention, hospitals would provide the most minimal treatment possible. THON portrays this perfectly. Families were on the verge of losing their child to cancer, because they did not have the money to pay for the BEST healthcare. If not for the Four Diamonds Fund, these families would have never gotten this money. This is barbaric. How can hospitals just let an immigrant off for free, but they will not put forth the money to help a dying child? I personally believe that the countries, where these immigrants are coming from, should be accountable for the bill. This seems unrealistic, but some countries are probably responsible for sending immigrants to our country. I have no evidence to back that up, but it is probably the case somewhere.
The thing that people do not understand about our healthcare system is that people take sole advantage of it. My mom has an insurance agency and writes many healthcare policies. It is very hard to get insurance once you have had a serious disease, you are overweight or smoke. There rates are over the roof. But the thing is, parents take their children to the doctors or hospital for every minor thing. This is one of the biggest reasons as to why health care rates are extremely high in the United States. If people quit going to get “treatment” for every little thing, we our healthcare would not be AS bad. I’m not saying it will be great, but every little thing helps.
If we were to give healthcare to every individual in the United States, we would face so much discrimination. People already go to the doctor for everything, imagine what it would be like if everyone had the opportunity. We would be put on wait lists for standard procedures. I know someone who lives in Canada and was put on a wait list for three months to fix his knee after he tore his ACL. I know this isn’t the case for each individual, but it is most certainly a possibility.
Undocumented Thieves?
I’m not a big believer in religion- but that’s to say I’m not an atheist either- or at least I don’t think. I’ve been a “catholic” my whole life and I’ve attended a catholic grade school for 8 years and an all girl-private-catholic high school for 4 years, so it’s safe to say I understand the religion and have studied it all my life-I’ve had to because I’ve been forced to. What I’ve come to find is the more I looked at and studied the religion and the more topics and discussions we’ve had in classes with die-hard religious teachers the more I’ve seen the hypocrisy of it all.
As “Catholics” we’re supposed to treat others as we would like to be treated, to help others when we can-but what I’ve seen is a country that ignores the beaten robbed man on the side of the road which doesn’t seem to be fulfilling the “treat others as you would like to be treated” belief. Granted no everyone in united states is catholic-but a huge majority are Christian and catholic and it just baffles me that we would be complaining about helping a person in need; and while these people are in our country illegally-aren’t they still human beings? Maybe they fled their country because they needed to to survive, to make money, to be free. Whatever the situation, I don’t know and I don’t begin to try and know why they are here but the fact is they are HERE and if they are hurt or sick, we as a country and we as fellow human beings not only need to help them but should help them.
It just amazes me that when it comes down to it, our country is plain and simple: SELFISH. We are the biggest consumers and wasters and at the same time we can’t find the maturity to help these illegal immigrants without complaining. The point Sam brought up about US citizens in other countries and the countries helping them out when they need without worrying about cost just shows how immature and self-centered we are.
I don’t necessarily know if religion fits into this topic but since I was in soc 001 earlier with Sam, it’s been on my mind and I feel that our country, based on freedom, religion, diversity, etc. needs a wake up on their hypocrisy. I know that by sitting back and observing, kind of like a sociologist I guess, I’m realizing and seeing how hypocritical everyone is and how things really need to change-and by things I mean our values, beliefs, and our social system in general. We need to adjust the invisible strings and take notice of what is really going on with the rest of the world-not everything is about us or (U.S.A).
In response to the blog “Those Undocumented Thieves”, I can agree with both sides of the argument. I think that is unfair for illegal immigrants to receive good health care without pay. However, what action should be taken when an illegal alien needs emergency health assistance? It is inhumane and wrong for American hospitals to deny health care to a person, who is in dire need, help because they are not from America. An issue like this is when morals, politics, and economics interfere with each other.
From the moral standpoint, it seems unethical to refuse help to people who need it, but in actuality there are people in the United States who get denied health care all of the time. Many Americans without health insurance find it difficult to receive any type of health assistance because they can not afford the fees. When an illegal immigrant can receive the same type of health care that someone who resides here can not, that is a problem. This is where things become tricky.
Just about everything in America comes with a price, which can be very unfortunate when it is something as beneficial and important as health care.
With the current state of the economy, the health care industry is suffering.
The cost of health care is very expensive, and unaffordable for many citizens. High health care costs also impact the doctors and nurses who work on the patients. Medical technology costs are expensive and are being impacted by this financial draught as well. When there are outstanding health fees like the one mentioned about the Guatemalan in the “Testimony of Illegal Alien Care from One Florida Hospital”, it only continues to hurt the health care industry and the economy.
America needs to be more thorough with their laws on immigration. If the illegal immigrants were better controlled, issues where morality and politics would not have to be crossed as much. It was not acceptable for the department that works with immigrants to just blow off the woman from the Florida hospital, when she called concerned about the huge medical fees of the illegal alien. This shows the un-preparedness of America to handle situations of this nature.
When comparing the situations in which Americans need health care in foreign places to that of the illegal immigrants who need it in the United States, it is not exactly the same. When Americans are overseas, they are not illegal immigrants; illegal being the operative word. Therefore, when they receive help, it is not like it was against the law for them to be in that country. Also, many places in Europe receive universal health care, in contrast, to the costly health care in the United States. While it does cut into the taxes of the people who live there, it is not as significant as increasing the economic struggle in the United States.
Health care is a huge problem in the United States. Last semester I learned about our health care and other countries health cares. In the United States 40 to 50 million people don’t have health insurance. Yes they can go to the hospital if they are seriously ill but there is only so much that can be done without insurance. Even people with insurance can only have certain procedures done that the insurance will pay for. So I think it’s kind of ridiculous how people here have a hard time and people from other places can come in for free. Now in other countries people pay for health care through taxes so when someone need health attention the best procedure is done without hesitation like in the United States. I know of someone who when in Ireland broke her foot. She was taken to the hospital and all the necessary steps were taken so when she was home and had to have surgery she was completely set up for it. I’m not sure if she had to pay anything in Ireland because I don’t know the full details but I’m pretty sure she didn’t have to pay a lot if she did. People pay for the health care differently in other places so it seems they receive it when needed and cost isn’t an issue.
I also think it’s interesting that when the Florida hospital tried to make contact with the country the illegal patient was from, they don’t respond or don’t really care. Then the Florida hospital will sent them back paying for them. The country does nothing to help. I was reading someone’s blog and they were saying how the country the illegal alien is from should actually pay for there medical bills or pay for some. Then our country isn’t paying for a patient that just leaves.
As I was talking to my roommate about this I was saying how if the four diamonds didn’t exist or thon didn’t happen then those kids who are free of cancer right now could not have survived. This is because their insurance in the United States won’t cover the best treatment possible for those kids. With the four diamonds fund the families have extra money to actually receive the best care. This means the child has the best chance of surviving unlike someone who doesn’t have the four diamonds fund helping them. I understand that some of the procedures are truly expensive but it’s a child trying to surviving while some person who isn’t even a citizen get healthcare for free? Granted they get the minimal health care but it is still free. That is not right. People who live in the United States deserve better health care if people who don’t live here and vote get our health care for free.
When watching the video it did make me somewhat angry that there are so many people in our country without healthcare, but the hospitals are paying for people who are not even citizens. In my mind, the illegal immigration problem in the United States has gotten very out of hand, and I wish there was a way we could get it under control. I would be fine with all of these immigrants living in the United States; it just bothers me that they will not contact the government to become naturalized. I actually know a couple people who moved here from Korea. They have lived here for a while, and are in the process of becoming United States citizens. They live here; they want to become citizens here. They are not trying to take advantage of our country, but are trying to become a part of our country.
As for United States citizens living and traveling abroad, I do not doubt that they use the medical care of other countries. Sometimes there are emergencies, and health care is needed, and it is generous of the countries to provide them with whatever is necessary. However, I would still be angry if I was in those countries too. I would not want my taxpaying money to go to someone who does not even belong to my country. The fact the United States citizens are expected to pay for the medical well being of an illegal alien is absurd. Why should we have to pay the government for them to lie in a hospital bed and be cared for, when they have absolutely no intent to help the rest of the country out? They do not pay taxes themselves, and they take some of the jobs that Americans would love to have in a time of need. To some degree, it is ok for the hospitals to take the patients. Everyone needs helped out sometimes. However, when the patient has been in the hospital for over two years, it becomes a problem. The hospital knows they money will never be paid back; illegal aliens cannot afford that care. What should the hospital do at this point? Should they keep them or send them away to their home country? The hospital cannot just tell them to get out at that point, that causes a huge lawsuit. Nevertheless, should the person’s home country have to take the burden? Is it not Guatemala’s duty to take back their citizen? The US should be able to care for the people who belong to their country who need the bed the alien is using. I know that may seem heartless and rude, but it is what it is. I do not think the illegal immigrants should be immediately turned away, but there comes a point where the home country is responsible.
It seems as though in America, it is always about the almighty buck and frankly, it’s getting old. The simple fact that Americans are offered medical care in other countries on a daily basis for pennies, while Americans in the states sit back and demand reimbursement for every single stitch given to an illegal immigrant is sort of a sad reality. One would think that people would be a little more humane and willing to help a fellow human being, rather than thinking “how am I going to get this illegal immigrant deported back where he belongs, while also getting him to pay his bills.” I mean, the determination it takes for an immigrant to make his way into America is astonishing, in turn, these immigrants must have seen the opportunities in America as worth the effort to get here so why not give them a chance? If they had the opportunity, I feel as though most of them would gladly contribute in any way possible to our society. I understand that it would anger people to have to pay for the medical bills of illegal immigrants, but rather than simply deporting them back to their homeland, why not improve the system? If we gave illegal immigrants the opportunity to become part of society legally, to have a chance, I feel as though they would take advantage of that and contribute to our tax system. In addition, a simple change in our methodology concerning health care would greatly benefit the situation. For instance, rather than having health care set up so it’s every man for himself if we had universal health care, all poor people, not just immigrants would no longer be forced to go to the emergency room for minor reasons, knowing they cannot afford regular health care, and they cannot be turned away from an emergency room. It is because people feel they have not other options that they end up in these situations and taxpayers get the short end of the stick. Although if people felt they had alternatives to this system, they would likely take advantage of them. Furthermore, research suggests that Universal Health care would make for a healthier country in general. Take Britain for instance. Because there is universal health care in Britain people are not afraid to go to the doctor for the small things because their health insurance might not cover it. Instead, the money is not a concern and so people are more inclined to be checked more often and in turn are healthier individuals. When it comes down to it I hope that Americans can take a step back and appreciate the hospitality other countries show us in regards to health care and perhaps learn a little lesson from them in how to help people not for money, but because it’s the right thing to do.
The video from the blog about the illegal aliens receiving free medical care was surprising to me, but certainly not shocking. While it is true that they are not U.S. citizens and it does seem unfair to pay their medical bills, I completely agree with Sam’s take on the issue. I don’t believe that it is fair to turn anyone away who needs medical care to survive. How can anyone suggest not caring for a dying person, whether they are an illegal immigrant or not? As a matter of fact, the last part of the Hippocratic Oath says, “To keep the good of the patient as the highest priority.” To me, this means that doctors and hospitals should look beyond the economics of patient care and concentrate on helping their patients. I know, however, that hospitals sometimes must concentrate on the economic aspect of things to keep themselves in business. Eventually, the government and the healthcare industry must accept that we have many illegal immigrants in this country. Out of all of them, probably all will require some sort of healthcare at some point. A program to provide reduced cost healthcare for illegal immigrants should be provided. This would solve the problem of hospitals being forced to provide free healthcare for the illegal aliens, and it would help the aliens themselves to eventually pay their medical bills.
I think the story that Sam told about getting his appendix out in Mexico City really showed how healthcare has no borders and no nationality. He had a major operation done and when he was asked how much he owed, he was told a pint of blood. While there are certainly more illegal immigrants in the United States than there are Americans living abroad, I think the story still shows how we as a people (our doctors and hospitals, specifically) have a responsibility to help to heal other human beings, whether they are U.S. citizens or illegal immigrants. It is entirely correct that healthcare costs are absurdly inflated in this country, which makes it impossible for illegal immigrants to even hope to ever pay off a hospital bill.
I can certainly understand how some people would feel outrage from hearing this story. Some would be outraged by the apathy of the agencies that are supposed to be dealing with illegal immigration who don’t really seem to care. On the other side, some would be outraged by the fact that the Guatemalan referenced by the woman in the video was sent back to his home country against his will by a hospital which wanted to dabble in enforcement of immigration laws. Either way, the issue is extremely complex. The overall problem of illegal immigration must be solved somehow, but debating whether we should offer sick illegal aliens medical care (regardless of whether or not they can afford it) is not the way to fix this problem.
Healthcare is an extremely sticky situation. In the United States it is completely out of hand and something must be done. Michael Moore’s documentary “Sicko” was pretty startling on many regards but also relatively believable. Being a portion of the insured, I found it remarkable that so many Americans are screwed over by ridiculous and outrageous bills for their procedures and expected to pay upwards of thousands of dollars. In comparison to other countries, we looked like shit. Why not, if you are uninsured, go to another country either to live or vacation to for a long time if they are going to take care of you if anything happens? I found it surprising that struggling countries were able to care for all of their citizens, and some not even their own, whereas the United States which is one of the wealthiest countries in the world refuses to provide healthcare for anyone without insurance. At the same time however, it can be argued that why should we pay for the bills of citizens that have moved here illegally? It really is just a huge mess if you think about it. Why not adopt similar policies of France or Britain where their healthcare system seems to be flourishing? Although I believe everyone should have equal access to medical procedures, I don’t feel it is fair for illegal citizens to take advantage of the system. It’s tricky and most likely never going to happen but there should be worldwide healthcare for everyone.
Illegal immigration is a clearly a problem in the United State of America and probably will be for a long time! It is fairly easy for immigrants to sneak into our nation and stay in our nation. These people are not US citizens and are exploiting our country in so many ways. This video isn’t even the beginning of all the problems that illegal immigration causes, but is a great example of how expensive illegal immigration really is. Illegal immigrants are not being turned away in hospitals even after the hospital calls the police and proper authorities telling them the situation. Not only is this irresponsible on the governments fault, but incredibly expensive on the citizens of this country. The women in the video said that she has 6 patients that are illegal immigrants that are getting dialysis 3 times a week! These patients are being allowed this privilege and are not being punished or turned away. Obviously one of the main reasons that illegal immigration is so terrible is the effects on the economy. These people do not pay taxes in any way shape or form, yet they enjoy maybe benefits everyday that tax dollars are spent on. Health care is just one small example, and it is clearly very expensive due to the evidence in this case and I’m sure there are plenty more documented cases that are similar. These people do not pay taxes on their land if they own any, jobs are mostly under the counter, education (their children go to public schools and go for free because their parents don’t pay taxes), and the list doesn’t end. These people come to the United States of America and cripple our economy in a time where our economy is already the worst it has been in years. There are many issues involved with why these illegal immigrants stay illegal and why they are not citizens but something has to be done! Either the United States government has to be a lot stricter in punishing illegal citizens, or the United States has to make all of these people citizens so they can start paying taxes. Taxes continue to go up all the time because of how poor our government manages and spends their money, and along with not dealing with many small situations like allowing illegal immigrants healthcare. All of these financial irresponsibility’s and mistakes are costing United State’s citizens lots of money and creating hard times for the nation as a whole. Rules are made to be followed not broke; these illegal citizens need to stop being allowed to exploit our nation. These people need to be turned down for healthcare, along with everything else that they free roll on. Illegal immigration is a very serious and expensive problem here in the United States and things need to be done to stop it!
I think it would be fascinating to "add up the costs" as Sam proposes, and see how foreign taxpayer spending on our expats compares to our "spending" on illegals here. Such would be a very intriguing study.
All in all, Americans must realize how unique their healthcare system truly is in the scheme of the Western, modernized, developed world. The American system is entirely privatized and consumer-based. As such, it operates like any other sect of the economy in the sense that it responds to supply and demand, spending and inflation. Consider the text that came with the email:
This is one small hospital in Florida...Unbelievable! PLEASE WATCH THIS SHORT VIDEO. EVERYONE NEEDS TO HEAR THIS. IT AFFECTS EVERY ONE OF US!!! This is why you can't afford good health care. This should offend every US tax paying citizen. This is not only happening in Florida, but every state in the U.S.
The most interesting sentence reads, "This should offend every US tax paying citizen." Should it? In this country, we do not pay for our own healthcare via taxes! I repeat, we do not pay for our own healthcare via taxation. We pay for care/treatment and health insurance premiums (to help us with paying) out of pocket. OUT OF POCKET (with the exceptions of medicare and medicaid)! So it's not the taxpayer, necessarily, that ought to be pissed off, it's anyone who pays for or can't afford healthcare or insurance either individually or through employment benefit (and especially anyone who just plain hates dirty immigrants and non-'mericans!). What happens here is that extraneous spending like this inflates the cost of care, which insurance companies must respond to by increasing premiums. I'm no economist, but yes, in the long run this does affect all Americans, and all of us need care at some point.
The foreign healthcare systems thousands of American expats are 'leeching off of' in countries like Canada, are fundamentally different in organization and principle.
The Canadian system, for example, is not privately-based. Rather, a standard federal system is funded through taxation that provides insurance to all. By all I mean yes, universal coverage is achieved. All residents and citizens in Canada, by definition, have access to care. Everybody. However, this does not mean Canada boasts "free healthcare," in the misinterpreted sense I hear many Americans espouse. All working taxpayers in the great white north, flannel-clad loggers, Newfie fishermen and expats alike, pay for this system with tax dollars. The idea is that it's free when it counts. For instance, you won't have to pay an ambulance and a visit to the ER or doctor. There are no "co-pays" on these services. I hope that makes sense. So, on something resembling an academic salary, one pays 35% income tax, and half of that 35% going towards healthcare. So in this case it is indeed the taxpayer, not some "consumer," who is suffering from moochers. The same goes for expats in Europe.
But here's the real hitch. Canadians, by and large, aren't complaining about these moochers. Believe me, I'm a Canadian citizen. The Canadian system is founded on the principle that healthcare is a basic right for anyone and everyone in the country, not a privilege for the rich only. We're willing to afford you healthcare because that's part of the whole idea, the whole philosophy, which means to serve a "greater good" of universal healthcare. If you work in our country as a resident, you're paying these healthcare taxes too, so by all means, you deserve it.
The American system, by contrast, is based on the notion that healthcare is a privilege special to those who can afford it, i.e. those with cash. If you can't afford it you don't get it. As such, these aliens really are violating the system. But the system is failing, or rather, it has failed. 46 million Americans now lack health insurance and access to affordable care. That's about 15% of the population, I believe. If this is isn't evidence of the utter failure of the American healthcare system, I don't know what is. These sorts of figures are absolutely unheard of in the rest of the Western world! You might say the US system has come to be defined by its failures and its being 'unfair.' Illegal aliens mooching while 46 million (a growing number) are struggling? Hmm. Sounds about right to me.
Let me be absolutely honest here. These sorts of issues play a big role in defining foreign opinion of the United States. Sam's right, we can't point a finger without finding more fingers pointed back at us. In this case, the Western world points one big ass finger at the US. Your system is part of why the rest of the world looks down on you, even though you're "No.1" on top. This is part of why millions of expats left in the first place. Despite your mission statement, you can't seem to extend the inalienable rights to Life and the Pursuit of Happiness - which in large part depend on health - to 46 million of your own citizens! I leave out Liberty here, because most liberty lovers I think would claim that one can certainly be both sick and Free, perhaps even dead and Free. In any case, these countries would not exclude out Americans simply because they would not sink down to your level. They don't think lives, even American ones, are worth nothing more than a sum of money, say a $2000 insurance premium.
This is a really difficult subject to talk about mostly because we are talking about individuals who are helpless and in a state where they need immediate medical attention. Alternately, I cannot even begin to count how many times I have heard this exact same argument and concern voiced at my own dinner table (my brother's wife is the head nurse at Lancaster General Hospital). It is very difficult for me to take a stance on this, because in most of these cases what are you really supposed to do? Just turn the foreigner away to die? Bill the country that they're from and hope to God that you get a response? What do you do if not? Part of my indecision here lies in the bias I hold against hospitals to begin with: they are business organizations and many times are conducted in exactly that fashion. Let me give you an example of how this also affects our wallets and my opinion: My father had diverticulitis (small pockets formed in his intestines that became inflamed and caused him extreme pain) and was admitted to the hospital as a result to have surgery to take out 4 feet of his large intestine (the affected area). While he was admitted, he was approached by a doctor and told about a clinical trial of a drug that may have been able to stop the damage and reduce the pain. While its not always legal to push clinical trials on patients, mentioning them is not. For those patients who take interest in alternative treatment (maybe not even a clinical trial, but some other course of action than the one traditionally prescribed), the cost appreciates for the hospital, and in the end is only hurting taxpayers.
While that may have been a digression because my personal grudge against hospitals as businesses, the point is that there are thousands of ways that health care is taking money out of everyones wallet that you don't necessarily know about unless you look into it. In turn, knowing that makes it very difficult for me to take a side here, no matter how upset about losing my hard-earned cash I am (Which by the way pisses me the hell off).
Alternately, how can you consider yourself a human being if you knowingly deny treatment to someone who will otherwise die without it?
To me, the largest problem here is the unresponsive nature of the other organizations that are being contacted: the government basically showing no interest in illegals, and the countries that said illegals come from not responding to the hospitals calls to take them away. THIS is the injustice here, not that the hospitals are taking care of sick/dying individuals. Instead of begrudging taxpayers with these burdens, and then looking cockeyed at the hospitals for taking care of illegals, some legal course of action should be taken against the other countries that are not responding to these calls. Admittedly, it's not that simple, but nothing ever is. Ultimately, there is no reason to point fingers at hospitals, or illegals in this case (tough some of them may be siphoning off the health care intentionally) but instead to address the unresponsiveness of those institutions contacted about the problem.
The subject of healthcare is a very complex topic, especially when it comes down to American healthcare. Many countries have free healthcare and people do not need to worry about finding the money to get a procedure done or live without a finger for the rest of their lives, for example. However, having lived abroad in London for my high school career, I can personally say that this is not necessarily the best method. I’m sure that to many people living within the United States that cannot afford healthcare, this system would be more than ideal. But after seeing it first hand, it is hard to say which may be better. Both have very distinct pros and cons. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, in London will complain about their healthcare system. One reason is that the quality of care there is just not the same as you would get in someplace like the states where it is privately funded and on top of this the administration is horrible. It takes a lot of effort to get anything done medically, but on the other hand, you don’t have to worry about cost. In the states, the quality is fantastic compared to pretty much the rest of the world. Why is this? Simply because of capitalism; hospitals, believe it or not, are in fact businesses. They try to make profit and so do the people who work in them. One example of this is the twenty dollar bags of ice that were probably free to make. This is not to say everyone in the medical game is only in it for money, but looking at the circumstances it definitely seems like hospital administrators act more as business men/women than doctors who care about their patients. I hate relating real life to television shows because most of the time what you see is in fact inaccurate but one example does come to mind. In the show “scrubs” about a hospital there is a character named Dr. Kelso who is the hospital administrator. What I am trying to illustrate with this character is his demeanor in regard to the hospital. He puts on a nice face around all the patients but in the back of his mind there is always the business side which comes out when he is not around them. He only cares about the monetary value of the hospital and not at all about the patients and will not hesitate to get rid of someone who could stay extra but doesn’t NEED to. Obviously this is a show and on top of this it is a satire about a hospital so this is probably an exaggeration of real life, but I am not at all reluctant to believe that there can definitely be people in such positions of power that do mirror Dr. Kelso.
Okay so pretty much the lady in the video to me is totally correct. Although doctor Richards might be right about Americans in other countries getting the same type of health care these are only the documented illegal immigrants. What about all the other men and women who come from Mexico or Honduras or Cuba or anywhere else for that matter? There are definitely more than 4 million illegal citizens in this country. According to the Urban Institute there were over 9.3 million in 2004, and that was five years ago. Most likely since most are labor employees than more than half of them are going to the hospital for something minor or major, and what about births and other hospital visit.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were close to 20 million today, are borders are so unprotected, a story of a police officer two years ago was a shocking one. An officer of the border control was put in jail for shooting a person crossing the border along Mexico and New Mexico, even though he was shot at first. So someone is trying to get into the country, shoots at and officer who then returns fire and the officer get put in jail. How the hell does that happen?
I believe that we are too loose with the lockdown of our borders, honestly if they want to become citizens then why can’t they wait? Okay, maybe it’s true that our ancestors came early in the nineteenth century and emigrated from where they came from, but I’d like to believe that if there were strict laws about it then they would have abided them until they became citizens.
Back to the hospital topic, look I understand that if a person is dying then they shouldn’t be turned away to die from a hospital. But why should they go back to their home country when they get better and free medical services her at the price of taxpaying citizens. The thing that’s in the grey area is what happens when they the illegal immigrants have children in America, and then those children are automatically American, because they were born here. Now I believe that our country should be full of diversity but them getting things many Americans can’t even afford. The argument can also be said that many illegal immigrants pay taxes, but not enough. I know that there is a big problem with are health care system but with things like this happening and the hospitals giving away medicine to someone who can’t pay all is just hurting the advancement of something that needs a lot of help. I don’t believe that people that come into this country and don’t want to assimilate to our culture shouldn’t get free health care.
I have never thought about health care quite like this before. I understand that this is a large issue for hospitals, especially in areas like Florida where there are large amounts of illegal immigrants. I guess I should’ve thought about his more, considering I live next to Kennett Square, PA, which is the mushroom capital of the world. Kennett Square is a hot bed for illegal immigrants. Many mushroom farmers hire illegal immigrants to work on their farms. This equates to the fact that the hospitals close to my house are probably littered with illegal patients who can’t afford the medical bills they acquire. This all adds to the fact that my parents are probably paying massive amounts of money to help these illegal immigrants. I really don’t know where I stand on the illegal immigrant issue, but thinking about the millions of Americans who live overseas helps. It is a good point that millions of Americans are overseas using other country’s healthcare systems. The only reason why illegal immigrants using our healthcare system is such a big deal is because, as Sam explained, our healthcare system is severely inflated. I mean come on, twenty dollars for an ice bag? Are we nuts? I don’t care if there was the best ice made with the best quality of water in the world, one bag of ice should never, ever, cost twenty dollars. I think in order for people to be legitimately outraged over this issue, we need to fix our health care problems first. Also we need to take into account why we have hospitals. Aren’t hospitals put in place in order to help anyone who is injured? I don’t think it should matter as to what country you are from or whether or not you are covered to have the correct type of procedure. Hospitals are put in place to help those in need, not to deny someone the proper treatment. I think we as Americans should stop complaining so much about supporting others, because let’s say something changes and all the hospitals worldwide aren’t allowed to help people from other countries if they aren’t covered properly. Nobody wants that and I think it is our duty as human beings to help those in need, whether it be to hold open a door for an elderly lady or to help an illegal immigrant in need of medical care. As I’m writing this I am starting to get clear where I stand. I think our hospitals should help everyone in need, no matter what. I also remember that I have a very close family friend who is very passionate about this topic. His name is Patch Adams, and there was a movie about him a while ago starring Robin Williams. Patch wholeheartedly believed that it shouldn’t matter what type of insurance you have or where you are from, if you are injured you deserve to be helped. Patch started to build an insurance free hospital and the hospital is currently still being worked on. I hope one day that we can have all of our hospitals have the open door policy that Patch hopes for.
This is a very controversial issue and can be fought about either way in terms of against it or for it with very substantial reasons behind both. Personally, I feel like it is pretty messed up that we need to treats these illegal immigrants in the first place. If they are not paying taxes, they should go to a free clinic or pay for it out of their own pockets. Healthcare is a very expensive thing both for the providers and receivers. When an illegal immigrant just walks in and uses free health care, everyone else is getting hurt besides that person. The health care institution is using their personal resources and finances to help the individual out. They do not even know though how or if they are going to get the money back in the end. The place probably hopes that the government of the person themselves will end up paying. However, in reality no one is probably going to pay since that is how our country really works. Furthermore, other citizens of this country who are just bystanders are also being hurt. Everyone else has to start paying more for their premiums and health care costs so that health care companies and institutions can make back the money they lost on the individual.
Subsequently, I do not think it is a responsibility for the hospitals to help illegal immigrants even though the rest of the world helps others and us when people come to their hospitals though. We are not other countries we are the United States. Nevertheless, when any person walks into a hospital dying, it is definitely necessary that the person be treated. For extreme situations, exceptions need to be made and the person definitely needs to be treated. After a certain time, or till the individual becomes even a little stable, the hospital should not have to be responsible for the patient. A hospital is a business basically, and they cannot offer goods and services to people for free; seriously, it just not possible or feasible for anyone.
Also, regarding how hospitals inflate everything they give to their patients, I do not think there is a problem with that. Again, a hospital is a business and needs to make an income at the end of the day so they can expand their organization and capabilities. Without overcharging people, that would not be possible. Plus it is not like there is only one hospital that people can go to, rather there are thousands, so people can go somewhere else if they think they are being overcharged. Overall, the lady in the video brought up a great perspective that I never heard of before, and I think she is totally right and something should definitely be done about it.
Tiffany Hawkins
Journal 6 Soc
Those Undocumented Thieves
I know that people are always talking about how illegal immigrants are a problem and how they are affecting our economy and where our tax money goes. I do not think it is fair that people who do not pay for health care or pay taxes in our country can go to the hospital and be helped for absolutely no cost at all. However at the same time it is not fair for people from our country to go over to other countries and do the same exact thing. I agree with the fact that every time you point a finger at someone else there are three pointed back at you. No one can go around in their life and just blame other people for doing so many things wrong and doing things that are not right in places they are not even from. But I mean at the same time there are always people from our country doing the same exact thing. There will always be people from our country going to other countries to take from the benefits from their tax money or the benefits that they should not be receiving as a foreigner. I also think that there is no way for anyone to be able to control or monitor every single person or group of people that comes into their country whether they are illegal immigrants or not. There is no way for a country to be able to keep track of every entrance into their country. There is no way for any country to be able to make sure everyone that comes to a hospital or comes to receive benefits of our tax payments is actually paying taxes themselves. There are too many people in each country and too many other problems the country should be paying more attention to than illegal immigrants or people “robbing” their country of their tax paying benefits. I mean it is not all illegal immigrants or foreigners go to another country for. They do not just plan to go to a country and get hurt or just make a plan so they have to go to the hospital to take away from other people’s tax money. Illegal immigrants and foreigners may come to another country or leave their own country because of the benefits their country lacks. They could want to experience new freedoms they never had or never even knew were possible. They could even just want to experience a culture that is completely different from their own to learn about another group or culture of people it is not all about how they are or are not “robbing” us of our tax dollars. It is more about the fact that every country has to deal with it and every country has people who do it.
Cayla Rasi
At first when seeing this video I thought to myself “wow I’m so lucky that my parents pay my insurance and health bills.” And then I thought to myself “over break I have a dermatologist appointment, regular family medicine doctor visit, a facial and massage (massages help the mental health you know….), and a visit with my psychologist (I have to talk about stress here at school to someone!)” and in the end, all I really need is to go and visit with my family doctor—that’s the most important to my health. I really don’t NEED to see a dermatologist (my skin is clear 99% of the time, but because I get a pimple here and there and my parents are big on the “take care of your skin”… I’m going to see a dermatologist). Who cares about a dermatologist and having a “mental health” day and getting a massage and facial at a spa—these things are not essential to survive!
People are asking for our help—whether they are legal or illegal in the country—and we need to reach out to these people and gracefully offer our services to them and help them get healthy. I’m sure there are many cases where American’s are turned away in certain countries for health care. But I’m sure those cases are more rare than people being helped. It’s embarrassing to think that we are being picky of who gets medical help in this country. We are having Dance Marathons yearly here at Penn State to help children and I understand that they are American’s and their parents are paying American taxes—but way not have dance marathons to help non-American’s that need medical care while here in the US?
I also never really understood the process for who decides if people can live/and work in the United States. If someone could explain this to me that would be fabulous. But to me right now it seems as though someone is sitting behind a big desk at a capital accepting or rejecting people who are wanting to come to live and work in this country. Okay, so someone gets to decide who stays and who goes, but doctors shouldn’t even be asking for identification to see if you are American or not and depending on who/what you are according to your nationality—that will be the determining factor of if you get medical help or not. I fully understand that it is important and helpful to know patients’ medical history, their blood type, allergies, etc. but their nationality … really? Is that really necessary?
Also, the money that people are donating to hospitals, the money that is paid in taxes, the money that is paid when it comes to medical fees that are paid by insurance companies and that are paid by the individual seeking medical help—where is all this money going? Not everyone needs medical help to the extreme and we are paying to have these services in case we do need help (I understand the bills go up if we do need help, but we are still paying a fee/tax/bill [whatever you want to call it] and that money has to be going some where). May be it’s going to the doctors; several doctors have such large salaries here in the United States, whatever happened to being a doctor to help people? Who really goes to medical school saying “if I was paid as much as a social worker, I’d still go through all of this expensive school and I would still work the long hours I am about to endure”? who really actually says that? That’s sad if people are going through training to be doctors because they know that they will be well off for the rest of their lives.
Let’s help people, actually help people and not question whether or not we should reach out and lend a hand.
I feel like you can’t even really compare the two aspects of this. United States citizens living in other countries (the majority legally I’m assuming) and receiving health care and people coming over to the United states illegally, some solely to use our medical services. I am not a person that feels strongly against illegal immigration but I think it is ridiculous to say that everyone does this not just illegal immigrants. In Sam’s example of his appendectomy, he was given a fee of no actual cost. He didn’t avoid paying his bill he didn’t go missing when given a price he simply wasn’t asked to pay. So saying he took free health care isn’t the same as someone having a fee to pay and then disappearing. Also Sam said he was in the gritty hospital which you cannot really compare to many of the United State’s facilities. It is definitely a plus getting cheap medical care but coming from the U.S. and going into a gritty hospital I wouldn’t expect to pay anywhere near as much as I do hear. It’s nice that there are people in the world willing to perform medical procedures for next to nothing out of the good of their heart but coming to America you shouldn’t expect that. Many U.S. doctors are ridiculously over paid which isn’t right but it should be expected. We have a standard of being “the best” and while that may or may not be true our high American costs come with that. As greedy as America is there are some good people who like many people from other countries are willing to do things because they’re good people, but that shouldn’t be expected from the U.S.. Immigrants using American health services becomes a huge cost to citizen because the greedy Americans that we are we just want the money, we don’t really care who it comes from. I have no clue how much other countries are affected by this. Personally I would think that it’s a lot smaller of an issue elsewhere but I honestly do not know. But I highly doubt that it is people working for multinational corporations causing the issue. Americans working for worldwide corporations probably are doing pretty well in terms of money. While there may be people trying to avoid there medical payment many of them are probably people planning on being honest and paying their bills. It would be nice if more doctors were willing to perform services for little to no money for people from other countries where services are inferior. But this would only anger Americans, especially people with lower income struggling to afford their medical bill or even avoiding necessary health care due to cost.
Healthcare is a huge issue in the United States. I can understand both sides on this issue. All people in this country should be given healthcare in my opinion. It is frustrating when people think their money is being stolen from them when its used to help immigrants receive healthcare they need. I think that many people who travel from the United States to other countries and end up needing extreme medical procedures would most likely come back to the U.S unless it was an emergency. I think there should be ways to help assist immigrants to pay for healthcare if they traveled here to start a family and are trying to get a job. As long as they are legal immigrants I believe they too, are entitled to proper healthcare. I sometimes think thats immigrants do try to take advantage of the healthcare in the United States. These immigrants probably do not intentionally want to take money from the U.S citizens but have no other choice at times. Put yourself in their shoes, they probably have a family and an emergency came up and they had no other choice but to go to the hospital. Many of the immigrants probably believe that they should be given healthcare because they work in the country. They put hours in for employers, and when most people do that they receive healthcare in return. The people that employ the immigrants are also wrong because they are doing so illegally. No one ever thinks that the employers are wrong however. It is hard not to sympathize when with them. They come here to work and ontop of making minimum wage, they are expected to pay for medical bills. Plus, our economy is not the best at this time, the unemployment rate is extremely high. Illegal immigrants take these jobs. Illegal immigrants sometimes receive the best healthcare in the nation when they do not deserve it whatsoever. Other people are being cheated out of this who contstantly work hard and pay the full amount of taxes required by the law. This is a constant debate in politcs, but it is so much hard when you meet the person that this is actually happening too. It is so exasperating when we are paying the full taxes when they are going to people who do not evne pay anything at all. Plus, I bet many of the people living overseas from America are not covered in the countries they moved to. If something were to happen to them, I doubt a hospital in that country would say no they can not come in. I also bet these Americans do not see themselves as doing something wrong or cheating others out of what they rightfully earned.
The video regarding illegal immigrants using our health care facilities in the United States really strikes a cord with me personally. My family is unable to afford health insurance, and therefore if anything comes about that my family may have to go to the hospital for, we may not go. Very often my parents complain of back pain, or any pain really, but know that they cannot go to the doctor or hospital because there is no way that they would be able to afford the bill; and so they continue to live with chronic pain day in and day out. It’s a cycle that is never ending, and it breaks my heart to see it. It is also a cause of constant worry for me being away from them at school.
So to see this video, and hear this lady testify about these cases is a hard pill for me to swallow. Actually, it is almost unbelievable. For health care to be such an impossibility for some people, while some people who are here illegally get treated and then their flights home are PAYED for, is shocking and quite frankly really irritating.
I understand all of the points that Professor Richards has made regarding Americans using other countries’ health care systems overseas to their advantage, but that doesn’t mean that it’s right.
It is clear that our health care system in the United States needs an overhaul. With the way things are going, clearly some things are not working out. I know that I am not alone in my worry for my parents; I’m sure there are millions of Americans that also worry about the ones they love due to their lack of health insurance or improper medical coverage. I do know that President Obama is attempting to work on this, and I am excited to see where this goes.
I must agree with Professor Richards that our medical care is grossly overpriced, but the blame for that goes to many different places, and again, doesn’t make it right for people here illegally to get medical care and then not pay for it. The money has to come from somewhere, and unfortunately it comes right from my parent’s pocket, the same people whom cannot afford their own medical care and yearly check-ups.
The message that is being circulated with the video may also be a little bit overdone and intense. I’m sure this isn’t the main problem affecting taxpayers, and most likely isn’t the only reason that our health care system is the way it is. It is certainly now visible to me though, and something I will likely keep in the back of my mind for some time to come.
So our tax dollars are being spent on operations and health care for illegal immigrants. Of course I am upset to find out that my health care costs have gone up because of this. People that don’t live in our country are coming into our health care facilities, using the services, and then being sent home with a pat on the back. This video hit home considering I work on campus. Finding out that the money my job takes out for taxes goes to paying for health care for illegal immigrants is disappointing. If I knew that my taxes were being misused, then I would have preferred that my job withheld money. That’s like an illegal immigrant walking up to me, reaching into my pocket, and walking off with my wallet. But of course, if I were a doctor, I would do the cutting and sewing first, and ask for the bill later. I don’t think anyone could be heartless enough to turn away someone who really needed attention.
Hearing that we, as Americans, could leave the country and possibly take advantage of free health care elsewhere, makes me want to pack my bags. Now studying abroad sounds a lot better considering there’s the chance that I would not need a health plan. Unfortunately, I am not one of the lucky few who have been on both sides of the fence. My money is paying illegal immigrants, my health care rates are going up, and there’s nothing I can do about it. So right now I do not mind pointing a finger because I’ve never been off the east coast. The only thing that would level the playing field is holding illegal immigrants accountable for the health care they receive. Otherwise, the United States citizens suffer a deficit that hits out pockets. And the same laws and ideals should be upheld in other countries. Americans should be accountable for the health care they receive outside of this country as well. Ultimately, somebody is going to have to pay in the end. We all just need to take responsibility for the services we use and stop pointing fingers at other people.
As Americans, we also need to learn how to use our health care wisely. You don’t always need to take your daughter Jill to the doctor when she scrapes her knee or when she has a flu. People wonder why health care costs so much, yet the go to the doctor to get diagnosed for things they already knew beforehand. If you break your arm, there is no need to go to the doctor and have him look at it. The doctor is going to tell you your arm is broken and send you back home. And on your way out you have to pay a co-payment. Use that money you wasted on that consultation and get the cast instead of having them approve a cast.
I do believe that this deeply affects every one of us. Plenty of hard-working Americans cannot afford good health care. And even what some may consider, “good” health care doesn’t come cheap. I know plenty of people who deserve nothing short of the best health care and at least sufficient care for a reasonable price. Instead athletes who are among the best in our country are put into debt paying off the shoulder surgery that they need in order to represent USA in the Olympics. I know another person who had to take off from work to have knee surgery. During the surgery the patient acquired a staff infection and needed two subsequent surgeries to flush out the infection and was then stuck with the bill for all three surgeries even though it was the doctor’s fault that the second two were even necessary. Also, for me and many of the other graduating seniors who don’t have full-time employment complete with benefits waiting for them in May we’re stuck to find some sort of health insurance. Thankfully most of us are in fine health and are likely to have continued good health, but how can we take a gamble on our health and potentially our health? That’s the case for me as a New Yorker at least. I’m not certain about the policy across the country. So you know what…I do think this is outrageous and I do wish that it did not happen. Regardless of how many Americans are living anywhere else in the world this is an issue for us Americans currently living in the United States.
On the rhetorical question about whether or not we think that Americans or left to dies from pneumonia by the local in Ireland, well no, which Sam informed me and that’s nice to hear. But we also are not letting their people die, and we easily could just deny them care, but that would just be heartless and inhumane really. I think it is human nature to want to help someone in need and it would be horrendous to turn down a person that you could help. I guess the root of the issue is illegal immigration. If illegal immigration could be controlled then we would not have to deal with this obstacle. Our country isn’t doing so hot these days, and maybe we’d be a little better off without having to take on the costs of those who are in our country illegally.
Ah heath-care. Another fun topic. What are you going to do? You want to be the one to pay for everyone to get it free? Or do you want have the guilt and shame on your back of turning away an immigrant, or anyone else, in need of emergency care? As Sam talked about with affirmative action there is no easy solution. Nothing is really completely fair. Its sad to think that we even consider money before the life of a human being, but that is exactly what we do. If you can tell me that you would be completely understanding if your mother got sick in another country and instead of paying for medical treatments the foreign country let her die then I allow you to accept the policy of turning away illegal immigrants within moments of death. Just because they are “illegal” it doesn’t mean they aren’t human beings. If your going to eat the grapes they pick or buy the cheap products that they make so affordable then you’re the reason they are here. I am not saying I don’t, but I also don’t believe we should be letting them suffer when we have the treatments they need behind hospital doors. They probably make up for there medical cost many times over. The way we consume they save us millions of dollars every year. Maybe since we pay them far less than the legal rate for wages we should provide all of them with free heath-care. You can not expect to benefit from these people without giving something in return. The woman in the video claims in one year illegal patients cost them over $100 million dollars. First off I would like to see the paper work, but second is it really all about the money. Can she not be proud or happy that her hospital has saved so many lives and helped so many families? If President Obama ends up creating universal health-care don’t think this problem will be solved. It will help poor families in the United States, but not these same illegal immigrants. So what is the solution? Maybe farm and factory owners who employ illegal immigrants should have to set aside a portion of the money they save by employing these workers and create a fund for when they are injured or need medical care. That way the ones benefiting the most would be the ones covering the cost. Whatever the solution, it is not turning these people away. We need to get our minds out of pockets and start treating and thinking of each other as human beings. For now we need to continue to treat and help these people until a better solution comes around, but please don’t believe that turning away the workers who make your life as affordable and luxurious as it is, is an option at all.
I think Dr. Richards may be getting into my head a bit now. While I was watching the video I began to think of this situation from the perspective of those illegal patients, and the reversal of the situation in other countries caring for Americans. And just as I thought of the words in my head, there I read it on the blog. I guess I am beginning to think like a sociologist, but I doubt this is the thinking process of millions of other Americans. Like the people in the video, they are outraged at the thought of having to spend their own tax dollars on illegal immigrants, which they may rightfully be. However, it’s the fact that Americans in other nations in need of medical attention receive all the help they need, often at little to no cost, which they must consider to properly judge this social issue.
This blog entry brings up another important social issue, our health care system. I don’t know if many people have seen the movie Sicko, but Michael Moore caused me to begin to doubt the morality of our health care system. It shouldn’t all be taken as the honest truth, as Moore’s films are only a biased view of the issues he investigates. Granted, in Sicko, I saw many examples of normal Americans unable to afford health insurance, turned down by hospitals for life-changing (and sometimes saving) procedures. Also shown were the dream-like health care benefits that are offered in France, such as personal servants subsidized by the government to take care of your home and save you from having to do your dishes, and doctors driving through all hours making house calls (not to inconvenience their French citizens). While many of the scenes and stories were shocking, Sicko also uncovered an important point which I think is the true problem behind most of our health care issues. The problem is money. The medical industry has grown entirely too rich by monopolizing our health. Prices have become inflated to the point where nearly no medical bill looks fair. Your own health shouldn’t depend on how much money you can spend, it should be a basic human right. Everyone is dealt a different hand of illnesses and injuries throughout their lives. Some may be dealt a royal flush, leading a healthy life with no need for major health care expenditures, while others may be less lucky, dealt a genetic condition or a near fatal accident. It shouldn’t be a matter of money, but of what care you need to stay healthy. The people in that courtroom are missing the point. I would just like to be assured that whenever and wherever I am in need of medical attention, my doctor will be thinking about helping me, and not about how much cash he can squeeze out of my insurance company to buy new plasma TVs for the waiting rooms. And I hope that everyone thinks the same, because there is something wrong.
Watching the film clip and reading the statistics on the amount of money that goes to illegal alien’s medical bills does offend me. While I do understand that it is completely acceptable in certain situations (such as the incident with the appendix) for them to be covered, I think that there should be a limit.
While I was watching the clip, I thought that it was ridiculous that the woman was talking about covering a man’s medical bills for two years. I understand that he was in need of medical care and attention, but carrying it on for two years was a bit much. They could’ve tried to contact the family or the authorities sooner. Two years of debt to a hospital totaling 1.5 million dollars is excessive and more than what was needed.
I’m not totally sure how this could be reformed. Maybe by enforcing a limit to the amount of money given to illegal patients, hospitals wouldn’t have to pay over a million dollars. I think that every life is worth saving. I also think that it is also important to make sure that even after lives are saved, they are stable.
I’d like to think of it as a philanthropy - donating money to people who need it. If I was ever in a foreign country visiting, or even living there without being a full citizen yet, I would want to be taken care of.
Even if they aren’t paying taxes, a lot of illegal people are working labor jobs. Let’s be serious - how many Mexicans does everyone see doing construction or landscape work? And how much do we think they’re getting paid? I know for a fact that they do not ask for or expect as much money as other citizens of America. My friend owns a supermarket and her dad will go to a McDonald’s in a not so nice part of town and pick up Mexicans who stand on the corner waiting for work. He will pick them up, give them a few days of work, and pay them under the table for cheap. He receives better, harder work for less bitching and less money. If you take into account how many immigrants are working for close to nothing, it actually helps the economy. Less money earned is less money gone.
Alright, I have to admit that I was a little irritated that mine and my family’s tax money is going towards illegal immigrants who use the health care system. Not only had that irritated me, but the fact that they grow that much debt and then they do not even have to pay it also irritated me as well. I think it is a little ridiculous that the health care system has to use their own money, thirty thousand dollars of it, to send illegal immigrants back to their country. For the family of the illegal immigrant who was sent back is sewing the hospital for sending him back, I think that is a little ridiculous. What did they think was going to happen when their illegal immigrant went to the health care facility and stayed there that long and racked up that much money? Is it not enough that our health care system took care of him for two years and dropped his 1.5 million dollar debt, and then they took money out of their own account to send hi back? Is that not enough? They should be grateful that the American Health care did that for him instead of being angry. It is a loose loose situation. If the health care system would have turned him away, the family would have been infuriated, likewise, for taking him in, taking care of him, and then sending him back. If it were not for them, he may not even be living right now. Plus, they are spending all that money suing the health care system in Florida when that money can be going towards his debt that us Americans are eventually going to have to pay. It is not the fact that they are illegal immigrants that irritate me; it is the fact that they have money to at least put a little forward and they do not. They would rather spend it trying to get more money. That just does not seem right to me.
On the other side of the fence, I agree that Americans living in other countries without health care should have to put a little money fourth instead of being handed health care for free. We do not like when illegal immigrants use all our facilities and do not have to pay a thing; therefore, we should not do that in their countries either. Also, I think it is a little ridiculous that our health care is sooo expensive. Twenty dollars for a bag of ice, honestly? Now that is freaking ridiculous. I remember my mom getting a bill for my dad’s ambulance ride to the hospital after he died. We live like 10-20 minutes form the hospital and the bll was nearly 600 dollars!!!! For what? It is not like they pulled some miracle cure to save his life, they did not. If I would have know it would have costs that much, I would have drove him there myself. He probably would have got there faster and there is a good chance he may be living. All I am saying on this fact is that there is absolutely no reason for out Health Care to be so expensive.
All in all, I do not think Americans should get so mad at the fact of illegal immigrants because there are some of us over in other countries doing the same thing to them.
Alright, I have to admit that I was a little irritated that mine and my family’s tax money is going towards illegal immigrants who use the health care system. Not only had that irritated me, but the fact that they grow that much debt and then they do not even have to pay it also irritated me as well. I think it is a little ridiculous that the health care system has to use their own money, thirty thousand dollars of it, to send illegal immigrants back to their country. For the family of the illegal immigrant who was sent back is sewing the hospital for sending him back, I think that is a little ridiculous. What did they think was going to happen when their illegal immigrant went to the health care facility and stayed there that long and racked up that much money? Is it not enough that our health care system took care of him for two years and dropped his 1.5 million dollar debt, and then they took money out of their own account to send hi back? Is that not enough? They should be grateful that the American Health care did that for him instead of being angry. It is a loose loose situation. If the health care system would have turned him away, the family would have been infuriated, likewise, for taking him in, taking care of him, and then sending him back. If it were not for them, he may not even be living right now. Plus, they are spending all that money suing the health care system in Florida when that money can be going towards his debt that us Americans are eventually going to have to pay. It is not the fact that they are illegal immigrants that irritate me; it is the fact that they have money to at least put a little forward and they do not. They would rather spend it trying to get more money. That just does not seem right to me.
On the other side of the fence, I agree that Americans living in other countries without health care should have to put a little money fourth instead of being handed health care for free. We do not like when illegal immigrants use all our facilities and do not have to pay a thing; therefore, we should not do that in their countries either. Also, I think it is a little ridiculous that our health care is sooo expensive. Twenty dollars for a bag of ice, honestly? Now that is freaking ridiculous. I remember my mom getting a bill for my dad’s ambulance ride to the hospital after he died. We live like 10-20 minutes form the hospital and the bll was nearly 600 dollars!!!! For what? It is not like they pulled some miracle cure to save his life, they did not. If I would have know it would have costs that much, I would have drove him there myself. He probably would have got there faster and there is a good chance he may be living. All I am saying on this fact is that there is absolutely no reason for out Health Care to be so expensive.
All in all, I do not think Americans should get so mad at the fact of illegal immigrants because there are some of us over in other countries doing the same thing to them.
So, I’m actually really pissed at that woman and her facility that sends the illegal immigrants home. I, personally, think that that is being very un-American to actually turn somebody away. Sure that person is not paying taxes, but it is still possible to bill the illegal patient. I was really mad and I fully back the family that is suing because their relative was shipped back to his native country. It’s actually very disgraceful that the hospital would even consider sending the man back. Other countries would never turn away a person who was in need of medical care, no matter what the status. That seriously makes my blood boil.
Unlike the medical system, the education system actually cannot turn anybody away. I was reading in an article that if a school finds out that one of its students is illegal, the school cannot do anything. The school is legally obligated to continue teaching the student. If the commitment was not legal, it should at least be a moral commitment. Every student has the right to learn an education, no matter what the status. Also, the school is not allowed to give out any information to the public (or the government as a matter of fact) about the status of a student. The school is legally bound not to give out any information that would cause any harm to the students. Knowing the status of a student could put the student in a lot of danger. I know that this applies for the public school system, but I am not quite sure about the private school system. Because the private school system is not regulated by the state, they have entirely different rules.
One way, I think, on how to solve this problem is to create a committee that would find illegal immigrants. It would not be the Heroes round up, because these people are not dangerous. Many illegal immigrants are here because conditions in their native countries are not what they expected. This could deal with every possible aspect, from the government to the fact that they are unable to find a job. Once this government funded committee finds the illegal immigrants, the committee would offer several options to these people so the illegal immigrants can be the country legally. I was picturing that that this committee would be able to offer green cards, to student visas, to actual applications for citizenship. I believe that this would reduce many of the border and illegal immigrant issues and problems. That way, the need to hide under wraps about your status would be eliminated. This committee would also create many jobs, and somewhat elevate the economic crisis.
The Statue of Liberty is holding a plaque that states, “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" When we send people away based on status, we are going against what the Lady Liberty has stood for, for so many years. I feel like we do not deserve this statue when we turn people away. I’m disgraced and ashamed.
Healthcare has always caused many problems within our nation. Watching that movie was eye opening, but at the same time it only raises more questions for me. I believe that it is hard to even consider not letting people receive care from a hospital because they do not have healthcare. Illegal immigrants can at times take advantage of our health care system, such as receiving dialysis, but if they need emergency care I do not see the harm in helping a fellow human being. I understand the outrage some people feel towards this system, but they do have to consider if they were in their shoes. Hospitals should not allow people who cannot pay to receive long term care, but someone who is an accident, should be taken care of. I could only imagine the frustration the woman in the video felt about having to pay for that man’s flight home to his country of origin. I think that is an absolutely ridiculous expense to have to pay for someone who has already racked up thousands of dollars of care up until this point. The cases discussed by this woman are some of the most extreme cases, but at the same time, they do occur more often than anyone would ever think. Most of the times, people go in for simple care and are in and out in a reasonable space of time.
I do see why many people in our society get angry by basically providing free healthcare to some of these illegal immigrants in our country. I know my dad becomes really worked up when talking about this issue. He works really hard to provide for our family and some of his hard earned money goes to these people who sometime take our system for granted. However, when Sam brought up the fact that Americans go to other countries and use their healthcare systems over there, it did make me think about our double standards. If Americans are receiving all health services in other countries without paying the full expense, then how can we require that of everyone in our country? It is difficult to compare our healthcare with the healthcare in other countries because ours is on such a higher scale, but it is the same idea. People in the country they are visiting need to get the necessary treatment, and hospitals in all countries do not turn them away in emergencies. As our fellow human beings need care, the only right thing to do is to provide them with it. However, at times it is difficult to see both sides of the argument, and it needs to be understood that it is hard for some to approve of this system when they seem to be the ones getting the short end of the stick.
The subject of healthcare coverage is a topic that has been debated for many years. It played a big role in the recent Presidential race between Barack Obama and John McCain. Almost everyone has his or her own views on how it should be in the United States. There are several million people living here who cannot afford healthcare. Also, the people who do have healthcare insurance are bombarded with bills that can be accumulated to over $100,000 when they receive treatment. The price of healthcare in this country is at an all time high and there are many of us who simply cannot afford the right healthcare. That is why I agree with what the hospital and government in Florida is trying to do to the illegal immigrants who are going to hospitals in the United States. The fact of the matter is that the people who are actually citizens of the United States should receive health care coverage first. The people at the hospitals in Florida that are racking up millions of dollars in bills should be deported immediately. They are not supposed to be here. They have no intention of paying back the millions of dollars they owe to the hospitals and even for their flight to return home to their country. Therefore, hospitals in the United States are out money that could have been used to treat those who are officially citizens of the United States. I’m not agreeing with how health care is set up here but it is what it is. Those that are citizens of the United States should have first priority to receive the treatment.
I do feel that the way healthcare is set up in the United States needs to be reformed. The price that one has to pay when they go to the doctors or check into the hospital is outrageous. Even doctors are forced to pay several of thousand dollars to pay for malpractice insurance. Their salaries reflect this, but many doctors are forced to give up their practice because they too cannot afford the high level of money they are forced to pay if they mess up on a procedure. There are many civilized countries that have universal healthcare paid for by taxpayers’ dollars. Hopefully sometime in the near future, with a new President who is all about change, the citizens of the United States will not have to worry about paying such a high price for healthcare insurance and coverage. Then stories like those of the Mexicans and illegal immigrants will be stories of the past, and we can help those in need of care. Also, much relief will be granted to those less fortunate than most of us who do have insurance. They will be able to afford the care that they need. But, that would be too perfect, and only something we can hope for in the near future.
Medical care is an issue that is directly connect to a number of other modern social issues including, the War on Terror, our nation’s economic situation, and of course illegal immigration. While the stories of Americans receiving generous health care in foreign nations are likely true, the choice to do so is up to that nation. In the United States we have specific laws concerning illegal immigrants. Everyone is responsible for paying for their medical expenses, whether it is money out of their pocket, or through an insurance provider. And for those who can afford neither there are government programs in place to assist them. But these options are available for U.S. citizens, establish and paid for with taxpayer’s money.
When someone “lives” in this country without establishing or declaring permanent residence legally they take advantage of privileges given to true U.S. citizens, including healthcare. But our nation was built upon certain values and the right to life is one of them. So American hospitals would not turn away an immigrant in dire need of care, nor should they, but the fact that he or she is treated at our expense is not appropriate. The individuals country of origin or the individual themselves needs to take responsibility.
The argument against this claim is that other countries would treat an American as well as one of their own, and not ask for anything in return. However, no diplomatic agreements have been written up to solidify a nation’s responsibilities when in such a situation, so each country is free to decide how it handles said situation. Regardless of how hospitals in Mexico, Ireland, or Canada would treat Americans, we are not subject to their laws concerning these types of situations.
Perhaps I am pointing a figure at other nations, who may criticize our nation’s actions against immigrants, but despite the fact that three fingers are pointing back at me we have a right to hold fast to our beliefs. We believe that the rights of Americans are to be defended by our government, and that those rights are reserved for us. This is fundamental as well as fair. So with this outlook, illegal immigrants should not be provided with the care we are blessed with. But another mission of the United States is to spread our values around the world and hope that we may spread our manner of existence through those values. We all want to see the rest of the world enjoy the same standards of living that we do, but that isn’t a goal to be accomplished over night. Our actions against illegal immigrants are in an effort to maintain our own stability, not to isolate ourselves from the rest of the world, but instead to be sure of our own security enough so that we may begin to help the rest of the world grow to stand besides us.
I have always been accepting towards illegal immigration. While I agree that it is not right that these aliens get away with not paying their taxes, there is nothing that we will ever be able to do to stop it. People always find a way around things and with developing technology, it is only going to become easier. Furthermore, illegal immigration is usually a hot topic in political debates and especially in presidential debates. Republican candidates often vow to eradicate all aliens or at least try and promise to tighten the border control. What we all have to realize is that since the beginning of time, countries and people have all changed. Whether we tighten our border control or not, people from other countries will eventually become the majority and the entire process will restart. So why bother?
When it comes to medical treatment, I do not care if you belong in this country or not, you deserve to be treated. What makes a person from the United States more worthy of living than someone from Mexico? I understand that our tax dollars are going towards someone who does not return the favor, but that does not mean that he deserves to die. Medicare has become so expensive that the illegal immigrants are looking like the smart ones. Who wants to pay one hundred thousand dollars for surgery? I know that if I could find a way around the system then I would definitely take advantage of it. It is not right for people to pay so much money just to become healthy again.
I love how people in the United States act like other countries would not be this generous towards us if there were illegal Americans living in their country. When Sam told us the story about about his swollen ankle and the treatment that he received, I don’t remember him mentioning how unfairly he was treated for not belonging to that country or how the doctor complained that Sam does not pay taxes in his country. When it comes to medical treatment, we Americans care more about our own money than what is the right thing to do. But that is what privatized health care does to you. Hospitals spike up medical bills and we choose to look after our own asses or get stuck living in the streets.
It is time for us to drop all the illegal immigration talk. While I do not think that we should simply let anyone live in this country, we should not make the others who are already living here face repercussions. It is our fault from the beginning to not keep a better watch of people sneaking in, so leave them alone.
One thing that I do agree with in the video is that it is ridiculous for the hospital to have to pay for the return expenses to send the patient back to his or her country. It seems crazy that after treating a patient who is not a United States citizen that the hospital then needs to reach into their own pocket to send him out of the country. But this also brings up a different point: is an illegal alien showing up at a hospital a good enough reason to ship him or her back to his or her home country? The Guatemalan man she speaks of in the video clearly has a family and ties in the United States, and he would probably be a citizen if he could be. Honestly, I am a proponent for immigration and even some illegal immigration. I am not suggesting that we should open the gates and let everyone flood in, but immigration is keeping our economy going and pushing prices down. I live next to a town that is known as “The Mushroom Capital of the World,” because of the large amount of mushroom farms there. The workers on these farms are largely Hispanic men, legal and illegal. They are doing grungy work that pretty much no American worker would do and at a low wage. I do not believe that these workers should be receiving such a low wage for the hard and smelly work that they do, but that is the way things are right now. Without these immigrants, the mushroom farming in our area would cease to exist. Mushroom farming is not the only industry that survives on immigrant workers.
So in a country where so many industries are relying on immigrant workers, how can people like the woman in the video think that these people do not deserve healthcare. I totally agree with Sam’s point about citizens of the United States who are abroad. Imagine being abroad and being treated like shit when you walked into a hospital in need of dialysis just because the hospital administrators are tired of treating foreigners. These hospitals should not have to pay millions of dollars to support people, but it is also their responsibility to help people in need. I do not think that I am necessarily an advocate for national healthcare because operations and such that are not deemed entirely necessary have a ridiculous waiting period (and just because something is not thought of as absolutely necessary does not mean that it is not strongly recommended). Still, everyone in the world should feel like they can travel to another country and be taken care of at the local hospitals if a health situation arises. Let’s all listen to our moral self-conscious and remember the value of human life; think of these illegal immigrants as our family members—what would you do?
Healthcare is an issue that is completely out of control in this nation. As Dr. Richards stated, some of the costs are astronomically high in comparison to the treatments. Thus, having insured is something that most people strive to obtain in order to protect themselves and their family, and for good reason. So why should we allow people to come into our nation illegally, and utilize our hospitals and clinics for free when plenty of people from America have minimal to no coverage at all? The answer is simple, it should not happen. The only way to completely stop it is to refuse any and all patients looking for treatment that are undocumented citizens. However, doing that is not fair in all circumstances either. If a child is being born, why should they suffer because they did not have proper medical care as a newborn, when they have done nothing wrong? Of course there would have to be lines drawn, and of course these lines would be confusing and sometimes based on the judgment of the doctor, but it would still cut back on plenty of undocumented patients looking for a quick fix at no cost to them. And why waste money returning them to their country of origin? If they want to return they will, and if they just wanted to be here for the medical treatment, we handed their hopes and dreams right to them. As far as Americans retrieving medical attention in other nations, I do not think that is right either. Even in countries where the government provides healthcare to everyone, like Germany and Belgium, it is not right. The citizens of the country should not have to pay for the healthcare of residing Americans just because they are in the country. It is the responsibility of individuals in the United States to obtain healthcare, and it can only be done as a documented individual. So in order to be given the medical attention and treatment of a United States citizen, one should have to legally be in the United States. Although it may seem unfair at first, if it is the same worldwide, then it will not be as big of a problem. There should be no medical treatment to undocumented individuals in any nation unless it falls under a given category, like childbirth or an extreme medical emergency. It just does not make sense why a nation that cannot even have affordable healthcare for all of its citizens would treat patients that they know will not pay the charges for their care, and to top it all off pay for the return trip home. We may be the “world power”, but maybe we should think about fixing our own problems before worrying about everyone else’s. After all, we can’t be expected to help everyone.
Healthcare is a topic that most people greatly dislike talking about. Healthcare is an issue that plagues thousands of Americans. With the incredible costs, many people are incapable of affording adequate healthcare or any healthcare at all. Therefore it is understandable that so many people are upset when they find out that people in the United States illegally are not only getting healthcare but then they are also getting away with not having to pay for it. For instance in the video, the woman stated that one patient cost the hospital over a million dollars and on top of that, the Hospital then sent the man back to Guatemala….and they paid for the return trip. While it didn’t work out totally for the man as he was sent back, he did in fact receive free medical treatment. No this does not seem fair and yes it is normal for people who can not afford healthcare we also have to consider what other option does the hospital. Well, there is the obvious answer. They can turn the hurt patient away. An option yes, a moral option…no. some people probably would disagree, as they believe that it is unjust, and that they should get health care from their country origin. But it seems to me, heartless, cruel and wrong to turn a person away, whether they are illegal aliens or not. A hospital could NOT turn away a hurt patient. It is a good point to think about it from a different perspective. If an American was in a foreign country and needed medical attention, we would hope that they would get the care needed. While I believe that the right thing to do is to help the immigrants, I also feel that it is wrong for the Hospital in which the patient was treated to have to pay for the treatment. There has to be a better way to help people, get them the treatment they need, and have a much more fair system of payment that does not end up sending either the patient or the hospital to jail. I do not think that this would be an easy feat, but I agree with the idea that there is something else that could be done. I agree with the person that said that it maybe a beneficial option to have the country where the immigrant came from, informed of the patients needs and then have that government pay for the care. This issue puts strain on the fragile economic situation in the United States. The decision on how to handle the situation is one that needs to be considered with a lot of care. It is not just an economic issue, but also a humanitarian issue .
We all know that healthcare in the United States sucks. It’s either too expensive or they don’t do a well enough job. It just sucks. The numbers don’t lie. We all know that healthcare is expensive and that’s why a lot of Americans don’t have it. I don’t even know if I have it or not. I’ve been blessed enough to have never been a serious accident or situation that would really be a burden to my family except when I was just a young lad and I was born bowlegged and piggot-toed and I had to wear cast on my legs but other than that the good Lord has kept me as a healthy, black man. I personally believe that for the majority of my life, Medicare and Medicaid has been catered toward the rich and wealthy. Time and time again we’ve heard about people with no money being unable to pay for some sort of operation because of the way or countries rules are set up. Some time ago I watched the documentary “Bowling for Columbine” and in it director and documentarian Michael Moore speaks on health care. He went to Canada, the big country not that far from the US. You know, you can see it from Detroit. Now check this out, while in Canada Moore discovered a few things. One, he found out that little no people lock their doors. It doesn’t cross their mind to do it. I’m not saying the whole country does it but he proved this by randomly walking up to homes and right through the front door. Secondly, their guns deaths along with a lot of major countries compared to the US are ridiculously low. One guy said that Canada is just not as violent as the US. Lastly, he asked another man about health care in Canada. The man said that his daughter was involved in a car accident and he paid nothing, absolutely nothing. An interesting not is that Canada’s poverty rate is higher than that of the US. That’s just astounding. Canada has more poor people than us and yet they can pay for their citizens when they get sick. Now is it me, but what in the hell are we doing wrong. Do we just not care about our people? In a country where we have new immigrants looking to build a better life for themselves, what are they going to do when they see that hey, we get sick, we may die, ‘cause we broke. There are a ton of illegal immigrants in this country right now looking for a better life. There have been times when us foreigners have gone to other countries and have gotten sick and the locals have said go see Raul or Zhi and the next thing you know, you’re better and you’ve paid little to no money. All I’m saying is what other countries are doing that we aren’t.
This video from Florida is misleading. I understand the plight of the hospital administrator, but she seems to only show part of the picture. She also implies, probably unintentionally, that all illegal immigrants skip out on their bills. That is how I took her speech, and it is a bogus claim. Not having a social security number does not give someone a free ride.
Millions of Americans are walking around with debt as well (as evidenced by our economic crisis), and the cost of healthcare does not help. If Americans were not able to secure loans, they would not be able to pay healthcare costs. As Americans are not able to pay back their loans now, they are, in effect, not paying back their healthcare bills. Running out on bills is not an activity invented by illegal immigrants.
The hospital administrator said that she had reported the illegal immigrants and the government said that there was nothing that they could do because the individuals had not broken any crimes. Um. Yes, they had? She could not have been referring to individuals who had left the hospital without paying because that is a crime. As for patients in comas who are unable to pay bills, why would she possibly report them? That is cruel.
Also, why does it cost $30,000 to deport a patient to Guatemala? I understand that he was not flying coach, and most likely returned in a bed, but seriously - $30,000? And why does it cost well over $1 million a year per patient? That is the problem. Illegal immigrants running out on their bills are not raising insurance prices - insurance companies, drug companies, and hospitals are raising prices. I have spent weeks of my life in hospitals, and they do not deserve the thousands that they receive. I spent 13 days in August 2006, and walked away with an $80,000 bill (after what my insurance covered). I barely even saw the doctors!
I have worked with illegal immigrants before (not that I thought of them in that context). I know individuals who refused to go to the hospital in dire situations for fear of deportation. Others have paid doctors in cash or with legal relatives’ credit cards to avoid troubles or scrutiny. Never has anyone I've known walked in and out of a hospital without paying a bill. They are contributing members of this society. If our government were willing to recognize them, offer them a legal place here, which comes with the obligation to pay taxes, they would all take it.
There are homeless people on the streets near where I live in New York. As most are mentally disabled, I cannot say (or even guess) if they have ever paid taxes, and yet the City picks them up regularly in the winter. We take care of the tired, the poor, the huddled masses, or at least I thought we did. Many people come to the United States because we have a better quality of life. Our country grants amnesty to those whose lives will be threatened if they return home. If we return individuals who are deathly ill home, knowing that we are sending them to their deaths, is this not against everything our country stands?
I never know what to say to these blogs because I don’t know how people can act this way. It really deeply appalls me. Even before hearing Professor Richards say it I used the same argument, our ancestor’s came the same way immigrants are coming. Having his class has just helped me see that not everyone is completely ignorant, but it is still wide spread. He is one of the few professors I have had who wasn’t afraid to address uncomfortable issues. I feel that everyone at Penn State should be required to take his course, because maybe if these issues have to be faced and discussed that people would start to be accepting.
Discrimination bothers me in all ways, shapes, and forms. But the recent up-rise in anti-immigrant issues adding to all the other issues at times put me into a real depressive funk. I think I say it repeatedly, but how do people get to be that way? Last semester I student taught in North Philadelphia in an area that was 94% Puerto Rican. Puerto Ricans are American citizens and they are still discriminated against. But when I was working with these kids I couldn’t help but think that they potentially face that discrimination every day. Kids don’t see color, and they probably don’t get why they are not always treated equal. And then we wonder why they become bitter.
On the idea of health care Professor Richards made a good point. The unawareness of the things he mentioned clearly shows the ethnocentrism going on in America. But it isn’t at all surprising that here in America we have more problems with who is getting paid than who is getting saved. Other countries are very accepting of Americans. It is quite a sickening reality that the hopes of America are accompanied by degrading remarks, belittling treatment, and incredible amounts of disrespect.
I am glad that we at least have classes now that talk about these issues. And with every new person who is willing to say something small steps are being taken. But I am very impatient when it comes to small steps that involve inequality. The basic human right of respect is constantly violated. And it begs me to question again where it all comes from. Are the strings of determinism what make racists racists? Is there some evil mind set that some of us are just lucky to be without? I know that starting with our children can help, but what about those being discriminated against now? How can we force people to just stop and think?
What bugs me even more is when religious people who preach that everyone is equal in the eyes of their “god” discriminate. How can someone claim to be holy on Sunday, but refuse to be accepting every other day of the week? Quite the hypocrisy.
Most of us know a little about the horrible situation going on in United States when it comes to health care. I can guess that many of us know a United States citizen who can only go to the doctor when they are in critical need of services. Before I go any farther I have to admit I have not paid much attention to the ongoing health care problem because I have not had to pay for it myself, so my views might me a tad bit naive. After seeing the video on the blog my first initial emotion was anger. I was mad that our tax dollars are going to an illegal immigrant’s 1.5 million dollar bill. Then the video mentioned that the immigrant just got deported and do not have to worry about any bill or any other consequence. There are people in the United States who get turned away everyday because they can’t afford medical treatment so why should these illegal immigrants be any different? But then I have to take Sam’s points into consideration, he mentioned that Americans do not get turned away from hospitals in other countries when they are in need. We talk a lot in class about how white privilege goes unseen but now I am starting to see that there is this “American privilege” that many of us do not notice. We as the United States feel like we need to be giving some kind of award for the things we do. When in reality if I go to London and get sick they are going to take care of me just like the United States is doing for their illegal immigrants. America in my point of view is really greedy, why should we be arguing about illegal immigrants when Americans do the same thing in other places around the world. This issue can be looked at from many angles which is why it is so hard to solve. American health care is so expensive I do not understand how any one pays for it. I can understand why people are irritated with these situations arise but that doesn’t help cause. I am not going to sit here and write about a solution the health care problem because in all honest like I said earlier I really know nothing about it. I just feel like we need to get off our high horse and realize that America is not the only country dealing with this issue. We have to put ourselves in the immigrant’s shoes. How would you feel if you were sick and in the hospital for over two years and all the doctors were only worried about sending you back to America? It all comes down to this question, when do we stop doing the right thing and start worrying about society’s economic needs.
For the purpose of this blog, I have chosen to discuss the issue of immigrants For years, illegal immigration has always been a controversial topic among many Americans. Many people believe that illegal immigrants should not have the same rights that American citizens have, but in a world and a country that was based on immigration is this really what our country has come to? While I agree with the saying “nothing comes easy,” and everyone should have to live up to the standards that every other American has to live up to, I still feel remorse for illegal immigrants. My parents work really hard for me to live in this country and I feel that everyone should have to work equally as hard. I do not believe that just because someone does not have a good life in their own country, that they should have the right to come to ours and be entitled to a free ride. I think everyone should have to work for the rights that they are granted in our country and that if people are offered a free ride it will make people not work as hard for what they want in their lives. But as I stated earlier, we are a country built upon the lives of immigrants, and my grandparents were immigrants and if they were not allowed to come to this country I would probably not be where I am today. We are a country of dreams, and we allow people to be able to live those dreams and if we do not let immigrants in to the United States, are we taking the dreams away from these people that could be the future of our country? As much as I disagree with people getting a free ride I have to believe in my heart that these people come here for a reason because they are in need of something better then the life they are living already. I understand why this is such a controversial topic because money and living standards are so crucial to society. But hospitals in general take an oath to care for anyone no matter of who they are or if they are even a citizen. I understand that illegal immigrants are a matter of security and possibly should not be here but we are a country that takes care of people and makes lives better for people. I question that if we can’t give care to immigrants then should we really be a country of dreams. I love this country and I am happy that I am given the opportunity to live here, but I want immigrants to have the same opportunities that my grandparents have, that enabled me to have a great life.
The health care system in the United States is crazy, it always seems like something is going wrong. So many people do not have health insurance but you can not turn people away from things like that. You have to take care of everyone; you can not turn anyone away because they can not pay.
I have an aunt who is from India and she thought she would cheat the system and get all of her health care for free but she couldn’t, but when her father came to visit but got sick, he did not pay for anything. He got sick while here about 4 months before his visa was up and was sick until he had to go back. They allowed him to stay until he got better but then once he was better they sent him back. I do not know if they made him pay for the flight back or if they paid for him to go back but I know that he did not pay for any of his health care costs. Now I am not a big fan of my aunt but when she went around ranting and raving about how it was great that he got taken care of for free, it really rubbed me the wrong way. My parents were especially mad because they knew that they were paying for his care in the long run. I just think that it is wrong that things like this happen and no one does anything about it. I know that my aunt has still to this day not paid for any of her father’s care; I know that we have to care for everyone because it would be wrong to turn someone away but we should at least get a name so we can come to them for the money in the end. I would hope that paying for the flight would not happen but I guess illegal immigrants have to get taken out of the United States some how. Then again I would hope that if I was in the same situation, meaning I am living somewhere else that they would not deny me care of any sort.
But we also have to remember the massive amount of Americans who are uninsured and working the healthcare system for all it’s got. I mean it still does get me mad like the story of my aunt’s father does but it always seems different when we are talking about Americans, it just seems different, but we are all people so it should not matter. Like was said at the end of the blog you point one finger only to have three more pointing back at you, it is one of those touchy subjects that everyone is heated about, but they would never want to be the one not getting cared for because they can not afford it.
healthcare is a big issue in today's american society. it is a platform that politicians use constantly everyone has their own idea on how to get everyone covered and to lower the cost. even though there are so many people with ideas and suggestion nothing really gets done. Another popular platform is illegal immigration. what is really the humane way of dealing with this problem? Do we just kick them all out? Is that even realistically possible? this video addresses both of these. A good point that was brought up was that americans living in other countries get taken care of at the expense of the country. Good faith is shown to americans all over the world. getting a procedure done like an appendix removed which would cost a good chunk of change in america just for some blood. Because they need good clean blood more than your money. I think it was noble of the hospital to care for the illegal aliens that it encounters. i would be more enraged if they turned them away at the door. WHo cares if i have to spend a few more dollars, a person is still a person no matter what country they come from and should be treated as such. Now don't get me wrong i do think that they way some of these people are taking advantage of these hospitals and of this country is wrong. but what can we really do? i mean truly most of them come here out of desperation not to take advantage. I see no easy way out. I think that any solution will cause pain and suffering for some one. We have it good here in the us and sometimes i think we forget that. we are so absorbed in our own problem and situations that we forget that there is a world out there that has much bigger problems than we do. they are desperately in need of help and we are whining about the cost of healthcare ( which is ridiculus but not the point). How frequent are these illegal aliens in our hospitals? i don't think we should be getting overly upset and angry. Yes it is a problem and yes it needs to stop but what will getting angry and having hatred toward these desperate people accomplish? Is there already enough anger and hostility in this country isn't that what feeds racism?
First of all, this is not news to me. Being immigrant myself, I have heard this not from news but from personal friends and family. I am very split on this issue. First of all, I know this men that is an illegal immigrant, and while he is working he accidentally cut his tendon in his hand open. Therefore, he needed immediate medial treatment. So he went to the emergency room, and had surgery. But he put down a name, address, and personal information so the hospital is unable to contact him. One way, he did need medical attention, if he did not, his hand would be gone. And he would be unable to work and support his family. But on the other hand, like the video, we the taxpayers, pay for all of this, and we are the one that has to bear the responsibility of their actions. For this medical case, I do agree with the fact that people that need immediate medical attention should be treated regardless of what they are. If someone is having a heart attack, you are not going to say, they are an illegal immigrant so we are just going to let them die. But when someone comes here for a long term treatment, the hospital should not have the responsibility to treat them. We saw in the video, that the hospital try to send them back to their home country, and they refuse to take them. The first thing we really need to do is let their home country take them back and offer adequate treatment.
The second of part of this problem is illegal and legal immigration. Of course, it is an ongoing debate between in this country. Some say that illegal beneficial, but I know one thing, illegal immigration is hurting not only the normal United States citizen, but also legal immigrants. First of all, legal immigrants’ are not even heard. We hear on TV that the problems of illegal immigrants and their problem. But we never hear the problem of legal immigrates, like how the fact that it takes longer for legal immigrants to get their citizenship than illegal immigrants. How legal immigrants pay for taxes and they are categorized the same and treated the same as illegal immigrants. It is like what we talked about in class, that African immigrants are one of the smartest and richest people around. Because they are immigrants and they are one of the best in their country. So they are different and it is really unfair to put them together. So in the end, I think that it is a very difficult decision because it involves both moral, ethical and economical part of our future policy.
Hongyun Wang
I feel that it does not matter if American citizens get free or discounted medical treatment in foreign countries if they are suddenly stricken ill, because it still doesn’t excuse those from other countries, i.e. illegal aliens, who come here and take advantage of our health care system by being treated by our hospitals and evade making payments for the care they received. Keep in mind that our health system is taken advantage enough by women who rush across our borders to have babies so their child will be covered under our benefit programs like Medicaid, and because of that, I don’t feel like American citizens should feel obligated to return any favors that other countries may do for us if we just so happen to need medical treatment while on vacation. No one is forcing those other countries to provide free care to our citizens. In my opinion, illegal immigrants get away with enough shit while they are here in the United States as it is; we shouldn’t be turning a blind eye to them taking advantage of our hospitals and leaving the country the first chance they get so they can evade paying the bills. Dr. Richards uses the example of having to donate a pint of blood in Mexico in exchange for an appendectomy procedure he had performed there; however, the woman in the YouTube video is describing cases where illegal immigrants had hospital stays amounting to over 100 days. Let’s compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. These illegal aliens are costing our citizens, our insurers, and our hospitals hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars, by not paying for their treatment. If I were in a foreign country and needed medical treatment, I wouldn’t care whether or not I had to pay for it if I really needed it. I would know that I would never want people from other countries coming to the United States taking advantage of my health system and forcing me to cover their bills, so I would happily pay my own bills if I just so happened to need care while I was abroad. In the United States, we also have state of the art medical equipment and technology, and I highly doubt that medical expenses in countries abroad are even comparable to those in the United States. Which leads me to my next point: We should turn a blind eye to illegal aliens seeking free care in the U.S., while so many of our own citizens have absolutely no insurance, and when they do need care, they are stuck with astronomical amounts of medical expenses? I don’t think so. Just because other countries may provide free or discounted care to our citizens abroad, doesn’t mean that the United States has to do the same.
I don’t really even worry about health care and all I just personally worry about what affects me and what affects my family and friends. I want all people to be alright and treated fair and all, but when I see that there are illegal immigrant it makes me think about my grandmother not have enough money to pay her bill. This is a free ride that these illegal immigrants are getting, so I feel like it isn’t fair. With that being said I don’t agree with a lot of things going on with politics and although they are getting a free rides I still feel like there has been a time where we have had a chance to get some money where weall could have insurance but at the same time the money never eeeever got to the lower class. The money is always in the hands of the upper class. You don’t see them complaining. We actually still see them complaining, but I think in these cases some people in the lower class has given up hope or just don’t care or are even not surprised. I think I can say we should have universal health care like other countries, but I have a feeling it’s not going to happen in my lifetime, so I just think it is best to put my family first and care for them more than I care for others. I’m not trying to say that I don’t care for others but for me to put the priorities of other before I put them before my family would be damn near crazy. I think what I also take into consideration is the fact that for me to be mad about this situation I would have to be mad about a lot more situations that they possibly don’t talk about. They talk about losing out on a million dollars, but if they did have the millions of dollars I feel as though the money wouldn’t go anywhere productive anyway. I mean they are honestly talking about how they helped someone for free. How can you really complain about helping someone for free? I feel like they are just complaining just because they are tired of helping people for free. I find that there is a lot of complaining from these hospitals, but what about those hospitals in poor areas whose rooms are filled, and make you wait for hours to fix the major problems. What do you do when the people that work at this hospital don’t take their jobs seriously and the medical equipment is out of date. While this lady is sitting here talking about their problems I just couldn’t get over the fact that even if the problems are fixed they could potentially BE the problem.
I think above all things; the key word of this entire discussion/argument is the term “illegal”. An illegal immigrant, regardless of the reason they came, is still illegal. For example, I am not cold or numb to the fact that the reason they came here was better opportunity. I respect and embrace people who do anything for the betterment of themselves or their families. However, the fact stands that these people are leaching off taxpayers hard earned money and using it for healthcare, which eventually becomes free. This however, is not such a cut and dry case. For example, the story which Sam told about how he was in Mexico and suddenly became in need of medical care. If I was in a foreign country and God forbid I came down with an illness, I would be livid and feel betrayed if they refused me care because I am not a citizen of the country. This type of argument can make people seem very cold, because while I would never want someone to be in pain, and not receive help, but at the same time health care costs are through the roof. We can’t possibly expect reform or lower costs if there are people bleeding out our system with no plans or intentions to pay into it. Now, the one argument was that U.S citizens do the same things everyday in foreign countries. However, foreign healthcare costs are nowhere in the ballpark of that which is in the United States. So, to think that the premiums and costs are due because of immigration seems almost silly. So the question stands : what exactly is the cause for these huge costs? I wish I had the answer, because it seems that these over-inflated costs are symptoms are a bigger problem than something like immigration. Now, don’t get me wrong, any time a business gives away “free” services, they are going to lose money and it will be detrimental to the business. But I feel that something like immigration may be a scapegoat for a bigger issue, just because it is always easier to blame immigrants because they are easily identifiable. I think in the future, especially with Obama’s campaign to reform healthcare, we will hopefully uncover some of these issues which have been hidden from major corporations, and figure out ways to deal with them accordingly. The video provided, while it could possibly be an isolated issue, still makes me angry because I, while I am democratic, I don’t believe in giving our free rides to anyone. I feel you should earn the right to healthcare, because it is not a right, but a privilege. So hopefully, with Obama’s change campaign he can find the issues most important and work on making healthcare more accessible, not just trying to give out something, because it almost seems unrealistic to provide universal healthcare, in our system currently.
This isn’t an issue of illegal immigration; it’s an issue of a terribly flawed healthcare system. America’s healthcare is overpriced to say the least. We pay taxes for healthcare, and then we pay a huge bill when we actually receive it. Way back to last semester when I was taking microeconomics we watched a video about healthcare systems in several different countries. Every country had “provided” healthcare by the government except for the United States. By provided I mean they paid taxes, but didn’t receive bills. Here in America we are heavily taxing every citizen and heavily charging every citizen, and then we have ethic issues where illegal immigrants can afford more healthcare than legal citizens. In the cases stated in the YouTube video, if those illegal patients would have been citizens, I’m sure the plugs would be pulled. I know illegal immigrants fuel our economy in some way, but are they doing more harm than good if they are avoiding taxes and receiving taxpayer benefits? When a new baby is being born a family pays a huge fee to have the procedure done. I wasn’t paid off until I was 14 years old. On this bill is a list of the entire healthcare received. In this list is a fee to help the hospital afford the costs of illegal immigrant births. It isn’t one of those things where you can choose to donate a dollar to a charity; it’s a charge for healthcare someone else is receiving. It’s almost like robbery in broad daylight. Is it wrong to turn down a patient in need? No one wants to answer that question. Either you are robbing American citizens and hospitals and unfairly benefitting illegal immigrants or you are leaving human beings on the street to die.
No hospital wants to have someone die in front of their building and watch it get publicized in the news and then get sued lose all of their money and be hated by their entire country. Instead they hand out healthcare for free and absorb the costs. It hurts their profits as well it is unfair to every legal citizen. Probably the best way to solve the problem is for countries to take responsibility for their own citizens. But another issue is that America isn’t responsible for theirs and doesn’t need to be. In other countries they don’t care if an American reaps their health benefits. Hospitals aren’t concerned with profits because they are government funded and need to provide good healthcare or else they will be shut down. Doctors in other countries need to be good at what they do to keep their job because of government checkups. There is a shortage of doctors in America and all of them are paid very well. Unfortunately their job isn’t usually is jeopardy so they just go ahead make millions regardless. Here we have doctors making millions in income and illegal immigrants receiving free healthcare. Now that’s American.
To start I would like to say that last semester I took a course call HPA 101 which focuses on health care issues in the United States and other countries. Health care in the United States is a major issue that mainly focuses on high costs, low access, and low quality care when someone has bad insurance or even no insurance. Dr. Richards basically says that people should not be turned away from hospitals and these hospitals should suck it up and help people out (cure them and move on to the next). While this happens every day everywhere throughout the United States is not a reason it should continue. If this continues and the attitude towards this improves and people like Dr. Richards support these instances, health care will only become more and more unobtainable. While he makes a great point that hospitals over charge for resources he seems to forget that these costs are elevated partly because of illegal immigrants and uninsured United States citizens. While a bag of ice costs $20 in a hospital, this cost is not because ice is an expensive resource, it costs this much because of the time a nurse must spend attending to the patient when he/she could be doing something more productive like dressing a wound or saving a life. This high cost of the ice is also because of many previous people taking advantage of the hospital, and in order to recover these losses the hospital must take advantage of the paying customers. (One thing I would like to know, not to go on a tangent, but did Dr. Richards pay for his emergency appendectomy or did he just donate the blood?) So to return to my primary argument, how can you blame hospitals for wanting to profit from their efforts. If these were nonprofit organizations I would agree that they should not be trying to get these lucrative bills paid, but they are not this, they are looking to make a profit, peoples salaries must be paid and these people deserves these salaries. And to touch on the subject about United States citizens that are currently living in foreign countries without health care, they are just as bad as anyone else looking for a free hand out, they deserve to be turned away. You know when I think about it Dr. Richards has stated on numerous occasions that he is not one to give free handouts and listen to peoples ‘sad’ stories. So why are we not hearing him tell us that these illegal immigrants and noninsured United States citizens need to get off their behinds and make a difference in their life, because isn’t that what we need in order to make a difference in the health care system.
While I think that when it comes to American’s taxes this situation could be frustrating. And that is completely understandable. But truthfully, I think Americans are always so quick to point fingers at other people but aren’t even able to acknowledge the situations in which they have done similar things. The story of Sam in Mexico City is just one example of an American being able to get medical attention without having to pay. The Mexican doctors, whose main job remember is to help people medically, did the right thing in recognizing that Sam was from a different country and kindly asking for a pint of blood. It almost sounds ridiculous to Americans that this was the only thing asked, but its because of the significance that has been placed on things in American society. I think that society today, particularly in America, has become so consumed with profit and money that people often forget the real reasons for why we should be doing things. When I was abroad in Rome, Italy I remember a girl that attended the University I went to had to go to the hospital because of too much. She was very sick and needed her stomach pumped, stayed overnight and just really a dangerous situation for her. Even in Rome, she didn’t’ have any problems with having to pay. It really surprised me because of the basic fact that she is a young American girl coming into a country which really finds getting drunk to be very disrespectful. She comes into their hospital from drinking an obscene amount and she is still given the proper medical attention without any pressure to pay for their help. And here in America we have immigrants, who not all but many pay respect to the country and work hard supporting many businesses in this country and are pressured to pay or even sent back to their country because of medical issues. I understand that it really depends on the person and their situation but there has to be particular cases out there where illegal immigrants that show a lot more respect and have a lot more serious medical issues than my friend in Rome are denied the proper medical attention or are released for not being able to pay. I think some people might not disagree with me or feel that I am just being way to lenient towards illegal immigrants here, but I also think a lot of Americans don’t’ know many illegal immigrants here and immediately have narrow perceptions of them. My dad has a few illegal immigrants from Ecuador that work for him. And to be honest, I have gained respect for them and I think because of this I can understand how they live here. I know how their lives are here and because of that I think I tend to be on their side when it comes to issues such as this one. Unfortunately I think many Americans do not and immediately put that wall up, because it is dealing with people that they cannot relate to or understand.
First of all, I would just like to say that if what this woman is saying is true, it is absolutely outrageous to allow this to happen. I mean, I agree with what Sam is saying when he says that Americans get free healthcare in other countries, but 1.5 million dollars is ludicrous. You would think that someone would have tried to do something a little sooner, before he racked up over a mil in hospital bills. How could someone at this hospital allow this to go on for so long? This woman says she tried to contact the authorities, but how could someone ignore the obscene amount of free healthcare this man was receiving. I know if I was someone who was contacted about this incident, I would have had him on the first flight back to Guatemala. Allowing someone to get much needed surgery while they are here is one thing, but to continually allow an illegal immigrant to leach on to our healthcare system for free is completely different. And the fact that this guy is trying to sue the hospital for flying him back to Guatemala is unheard of. He knows he is an illegal immigrant, and he knows he shouldn’t be in this country, so what argument could he possibly have? Wasn’t the 1.5 million dollars in healthcare enough to satisfy this guy?
Anyway, I guess the point I’m getting at is that this sort of situation shouldn’t be allowed to happen. The problem with healthcare is bad enough, the last thing we need is illegal immigrants getting it for free and driving up the costs for taxpaying citizens. America also needs to fix the problem with immigration. Too many illegal immigrants are coming into this country, not paying taxes, and sending the money they make back home to their families. I’m glad that their families are being fed from their hard work, but many families in America who are legal taxpaying citizens are starving at the same time. The problem for the future is that we have a democratic president in office right now, and he will most likely be more compelled to loosen up our borders than Bush was in the last 8 years. With the economy being so poor right now, the last thing we need is to let the immigration problem grow larger.
Although I do understand where Sam is coming from when he said that we should keep this in context, and that Americans who spend time in other countries are medically treated for free, there is no way that this situation occurs to this magnitude from Americans in other countries. Maybe I’m wrong in assuming that, but it just seems a little unreasonable to believe.
Healthcare is one of our biggest issues today, one of the issues we have no control over. The only ways we can stop this issue is by not seeing undocumented citizens and see those that are U.S citizens who are in a real bad condition and need the healthcare. Either way you put it its not a fair procedure, someone is going to feel as if this country is not as “free” as some say it to be. I believe it right to help immigrants because most of them don’t have health care and are in need of health care from the United States but I don’t feel as if it is right that we are paying our tax dollars and these immigrants are coming into the States and then they cant afford the treatment that they are given. I do want everyone to be treated fairly and taking very good care of whether they are illegal immigrants or United State Citizens, we are all human beings and we didn’t chose to be born a certain place. We have to live with what we have and some people don’t have a lot. So we should want to help them. Yes it is a crime for them to come to the hospitals here and not pay but there is people in the United States that do the same thing. Hopefully Barack Obama will change this problem and fix this healthcare issue. Having this man in the hospital from Mexico with brain damage and now his bill is 1.5 million dollars, which is ridiculous. I think that someone should have noticed this way before, noticed he didn’t have any friends or family to help him pay the bill, that is when they should have contacted Mexico and asked for some help. Not when the money becomes a ridiculous number and now no one is trying to help pay for it. Nowadays people are getting things for free all the time, and it’s not a big deal, but since its illegal immigrants it’s a big deal. If people from here is going to the other countries and getting medically treatment for free why can’t we do the same and give their citizens treatment for free, especially to the ones that really need it. People are just selfish and stingy and do not want to help the needy people. This whole thing to me is bogus and I can’t believe it’s this bad. But either way you put it its going to be wrong but it’s helping people and if you have the money why not spend it instead of letting it go to waste on something we don’t need. But it is unfair and we need to try and fix the problem but being racist and discriminating against people will not help the problem.
First and foremost, let me start by saying that I love this country. Now, my follow-up statement, this country is made up of about 75% hypocrites. What I mean by this is, we expect everyone to bend over backwards for us, but we rarely go that extra mile unless there is something immediate in it that we need/want.
Our healthcare system is not in good shape, the last I checked we were rated in the 30’s in comparison to every country in the world. That’s ridiculous that a country like our own can be that far down, how do we expect to excel as a country if we can’t take care of our own sick? I was without insurance for three years now, and I’m 22. When I dropped out of college originally, my parents’ insurance stopped covering me since I was over 18 and no longer in school, then when I decided to go back, they originally told us that there was a clause that said something about after a break during college, that’s it, they won’t take you back. Anyway, long story short, it’s tough to afford insurance, luckily I never got very sick or injured, or my parents would have been paying a good bit. Luckily I have parents that would pay for it, but many people without insurance do not have that luxury to fall back on.
Sam’s experience is how more of the world needs to treat others, with some compassion. Sometimes we just need to act in the favor of our fellow man. Yes, we will all be paying a bit more in terms of taxes, but it’s not going to add up to what everyone thinks it will. Plus, with the plan as it’s going now, if you’ve got health insurance that you like, and want to keep; you are free to.
I just do not see how any American, or human for that matter, could say no to someone deathly ill or dying, just because that cannot afford to be treated. That seems to contradict everything that I thought we stood for, what we fought for. I guess what it all comes down to with me, is that I basically think that we all need to have a bit more compassion for our brothers and sisters regardless, and I think this world would run a whole lot smoother. I know I’m naïve, but I’m alright with that. I’d rather think that there is still a hope for the world as a whole, you have to, and otherwise, you’ve already given up on a better place. I’ve gotten far off track, I just think that we need to make changes in order to help people better.
Although Sam has made a good point about the Americans using the hospitals in other countries but I am not worried about other countries. I am worried about the healthcare system in the USA. Yes, this may sound a little bit selfish but if they want to run their healthcare system in the way than they can. It is unfair that I have to pay for insurance and hospital bills while someone who is not even an United States citizen can get these health services for free. This video makes me extremely upset that the hospital has to pay millions of dollars in services because an illegal alien needed medical attention. I understand that if someone walks into the hospital and is dying that they must be taking care of but 2-3 years later and that person is still there. Many people have responded that 1.5 million is really not a lot f money when divided between the tax payers of that state but I doubt that this is the only case in which this has happened. At some point you have to draw the line and say that is enough because of this hospital’s and many other hospitals’ inability to say no has been one of the reasons our healthcare system is so horrible. I do not want to have inflated hospital bills because others have millions in unpaid bills.
Even though, I am upset about the situation the healthcare system is in, I have learned to see both sides of the situation. After sitting back and looking at it from the other side my original opinion has changed and I began to think about some questions that were raised in my mind. What if the illegal immigrants were turned away at hospitals regardless of their condition? How would the United States be seen by other countries? Many people that I know from other countries already see the United States as a bully. Would their opinions of the United States be confirmed? I cannot imagine being an illegal immigrant and having to go to the hospital but being turned away. What would happen if other countries did the same to the Americans living there? This issue does not seem to have a solution that both sides would be comfortable with. It is hard for me to completely be on one side. No one should be refused healthcare after all we are humans and doctors do have an oath they have to abide by. Can we really that inhumane to just allow someone to die knowing we could have saved their life? I know I could not sleep at night knowing that someone died and I could have saved them.
I’ll admit that when I heard that woman talking about the hospital she works at, and all of the charges the hospital has been left with when it comes to illegal immigrants, I became a bit perturbed. When I think of all of the debt our country is in, the individuals who live pay check to pay check, or even have lost all that they own, I cannot help but look at the instances like this where it seems our money is being used in ways we do not know. I do pay taxes, but not a very significant amount of money, not compared to my parents or other working people. But did I know that my hard earned money was potentially being used in hospitals for costs that were never paid back? No. But at the same time, if I could give a portion of my check to help out those who are bed written in a hospital, I would do it in a second, and would want foreigners to do the same.
The thought of being on vacation in a tropical island, or in a place where hospitals are numbered, and care is hard to find, god forbid one of my family members were hurt and needed hospital care. I would be so angry if the country or place we were, would not or unable to care for us. Indeed, I would think that there are more illegal or foreign people in America than there are Americans in other countries. Maybe we are selfish for not wanting to spend our money on keeping others, not from our country, alive in our hospitals. But we really are much better off than most other people in this world.
On the other hand, most of the illegal immigrants living and working in our country, work for under the table wages, not paying any taxes. This would not make things seem so bad if these people were at least contributing to the costs they ring up. At the end of the day, these people are here in our country, but are they taking advantage of our countries’ facilities and ability to care for those who fall ill or get hurt every day? Those who are not well off in our country, I feel like I sympathize with their situation, paying indirectly to help these people, who end up being sent home with no bill. Those more well off, it doesn’t seem so bad for them. But when it comes down to it, I would want for others to care for me if my life depended on it, and am expected to care for others when they need it. In this world, we are all different, we all make different amounts of money a year, we differ in the kinds of medical care we need, and it all comes into play when such a debatable topic and dilemma such as this arises.
I think the title of the video alone is discrimination enough. I think it is outrageous for the United States to kick a sick person out of a hospital because they do not have legal United States citizenship. I think in a way that is a form of attempted murder, especially in the Guatemalan’s case. He could have died and that Florida hospital would have solely been the reason for it because I remember that story and he was totally treatable. And even though he did get treated, he only got treated enough so they could discharge him, not so that they could heal him. And I thoughg healing was one of the main goals of a hospital. We must also consider other things about illegal immigrants before we even talk about the fact that they are sick and using our hospitals for free. We have to consider why they come to America in the first place, they want to be in a “democratic” and “equal” society, aside from the patriarchal and oppressive ideals that so many other countries have. They come here, to the United States because they think we do not have them problems, obviously someone lied to them. And if it was not so hard to obtain a green card than our illegal immigrant rate would be very low because I am pretty sure these “people” don’t want to be illegal, they just want to be able to live with the “freedoms” that god gave us, is that a problem. And also let’s consider that these immigrants are being used as maids and nannies. They are also used in most of the hands on work that this country need, and they are not making enough money for what the work that they do. So you would think that the “American” way to treat these illegal immigrants would be at least to allow to receive health care whether it was free or not, because the only time that there illegal status is a problem is when they are not helping some rich white man cut his grass or babysitting some bad ass rich and ungrateful child. We only fault there citizenship when they use the freedoms we take advantage of in this country. Because as a citizen of the United States I can go to any E.R. and receive medical treatment and whether I have insurance or not I will still be able to receive adequate treatment. And before ending let me talk about insurance. Insurance is so damn expensive that the average “American Citizen” can not even receive it. What makes the United States think that someone who comes to the U.S. illegally, who is automatically racially profiled, who is paid next to nothing for very adequate work, and who is constantly on the run from the “law” will receive or have the money to obtain insurance? These are very large claims to uphold and very irrational.
Health care is a big discrepancy in America. Especially with a new president this year, we have had many presidential debates solely on the topic of health care insurance. Our country has gone back and forth on the topic of universal health care to all. This is what I believe: I don’t believe in giving health insurance to illegal immigrants. I don’t even understand why people would justify this belief. Thousands of people are without healthcare insurance or in debt for thousand because of insurance bills. I don’t think that we should give health care to people who shouldn’t even be in our country in the first place. The point about how other Americans in other countries getting health care is very nice, but you can’t compare this with our country. Our 4 million other people in other countries are LEGAL immigrants who pay taxes and so forth. They are not illegal, benefiting on others around them without paying for the benefits that they are receiving. I was reading over one of the responses in the blog and one person said that it would be wrong to just let someone die in our country because they do not have health care. My opinion on this is...Okay. I understand also that it is not right to let someone die because they are an illegal immigrant. My solution to this- we need to work with Mexico or the country that the illegal came from and send them back. I found out by the video that this does not work and it is hard to do. I think our president needs to make an effort to work on this then. When a hospital find out that they have an illegal immigrant, wanting medical attention they should contact the other country and send them back. If the injury or the necessity of the person does not have enough time to go back to the county, I feel then that we should treat the human. After the treatment, they should send a debt to that country of the amount of money the illegal immigrant racked up.
I was surprised to read that the police did not do anything about these situations. I find it wrong that when I watched this video what that lady had to say about the police lack of participation in sending illegal immigrants out of the country. The very people that are supposed to be taking care of this major problem in America are turning a blind eye to the situation. 1000,000 dollars a year are spent treating illegal immigrants just in Florida! Are the police just being lazy? I know many people in this country who are jobless would want to take over their jobs. Their answer when the hospital tells them that they have an illegal immigrant is “did they do a crime?” and if not they do nothing about it.
The first step I feel to stop all this nonsense is to start taking stricter control on illegal immigrants. If they are not here in America in the first place, then there will not be any issue later if they need medical attention.
The situation of illegal immigrants getting free health care is indeed a sticky one, and my personal views on the matter are varied a bit. First let me say that I do not have extensive knowledge on this topic, though I do have opinions on that was said in this blog and the video in it. Mostly, I do not think it is right. Obviously if someone is near death and in direct and urgent need of medical assistance, they should not be turned away from any hospital or health center for any reason, especially monetary ones. The life of a human being should never be put into danger because the money to help them is not there. However, I do not think that someone who is living in the United States illegally deserves to have Americans pay all of their medical bills for them. I also do not necessarily agree with Sam’s argument about his “free” appendectomy in Mexico City. I highly doubt that Sam was there illegally to begin with. Furthermore, if he had been asked to pay for the surgery I would find it hard to believe that he would refuse or be unable to do so. If he had been asked but did not have the money, as an American citizen I think it would be the U.S. Health care’s responsibility to pay them. So if Mexico is willing to pay for surgeries for their guests, that is their deal. The United States on the other hand seems to have little choice. We have people who leave their countries and get to the U.S. without permission, and most likely with little money, and when they get sick, who is to pay for their bills? We can’t count on their country to do it. Why would a country want to pay for the medical expenses of one of their citizens who has left to become a part of the Unites States? In my opinion, the medical bills should still have to be paid by the illegal immigrant’s home country. As for their fare back home, I believe this should be paid by the individual. If they are unable to pay for it, their country should give them a loan that has to be paid back when they return. If someone wants to come to the U.S., I think they should get the permission they need to do so legally rather than showing up illegally and expecting their health care to be paid for by the American people’s taxes. If someone from another country wants to come here and be a part of the U.S. and benefit from our health care system that is fine, but they need to do it by coming here legally and becoming an American Citizen.
I’m not sure why health care for illegal immigrants is even an argument today. Sam has stated in class that he is not a typical ‘bleeding-heart liberal,’ but this blog seems to contradict that concept. These people are coming to our country illegally, taking our citizens’ jobs, and committing crimes when they come here…and we’re supposed to reward them with free health care on top of that?
According to the Center for Immigration Studies, about 17 percent of Federal prison populations are comprised of illegal aliens. That works out to about 270,000 illegals. 270,000. With 11-12 million illegal aliens in our country today, can we afford to house 270,000 in Federal prisons, and then pay for the health care of the ‘law-abiding’ illegals (an interesting oxymoron in and of itself)? With 46.6 million uninsured American citizens, shouldn’t we be a little more worried about them before we worry about ‘undocumented citizens?’ Citizens who disregard our laws and our constitution from the minute they cross that border illegally? Citizens who disrespect the foundations of our country for their own selfish gain? I’m sorry if I sound insensitive, but I don’t give a damn about those people. They come to our country and create a plethora of problems for American citizens, and then the people who try to stand up against it and fight are subjected to harsh criticism and investigations from our government. Is this the message that we want to send to the rest of the world? That you can come to our country and do anything and get away with it, because even if people try to stop you, they’ll be the ones who end up getting punished? Because that’s exactly the message we’re sending.
Now, to address Sam’s assertion about Americans living abroad, that’s exactly it. They are living abroad! They didn’t sneak across the border in the dead of night to get to wherever they were going! They went for jobs or love or family. I realize it’s easy to criminalize everything that us big, bad Americans do, but in this case we are not in the wrong. If I were to leave this country and sneak into another country, I’d be so grateful that I hadn’t been caught and so fearful that I COULD get caught, I would never have the gall to just walk into their hospital and assume that they have to take care of me.
This all goes back to our country being a nation of cowards. Other countries are dealing with their illegal immigration issues. India is building a fence against Bangladesh. China is building a barrier against North Korea. Congolese illegals have almost all been expelled from Angola. And yet, here we sit, arguing over the ‘rights’ of illegal immigrants and health care. THEY DON’T HAVE RIGHTS HERE! They forfeited those rights that they would’ve been entitled to when they decided to bypass our justice system and come here on their own terms.
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