I'm reluctant to say much about this for fear of being labeled a crusty old relic who is out of touch with the demands of the new global marketplace and the difficulties of landing a job or a position in some post graduate program. However, as we enter the final weeks of this academic year, I suppose now is as good of a time as any to push the issue, even if it doesn't have much to do with race and ethnicity.
I do want to say that it's a relief that some people are starting to seriously explore this issue of grades and entitlement. Here at Penn State I've watched the total number of "A" grades jump from 27 percent when I started teaching in 1990 to over 40 percent today. I'm reasonably certain that students have not gotten THAT much smarter, although I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong.
This issue doesn't stop here at Penn State but rather appears to be a nationwide phenomenon -- and one that is most visible at more expensive private schools. And from within my own anecdotal experience, grade inflation has occurred at the same time as we see a widespread decline in reading -- which is to say, my students seem to read less and less.
Just read the article. I'm sure you'll have much to say: "Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes"
I want to add that many schools have pursued policies of "grade deflation," in which they have tried to actually limit the overall number of A grades. Check this out from USA Today:
Since Princeton took the lead among Ivy League schools to formally adopt a grade-deflation policy three years ago — limiting A's to an average 35% across departments — students say the pressure to score the scarcer A has intensified. Students say they now eye competitive classmates warily and shy away from classes perceived as difficult.
"It used to be that you'd let someone copy your notes if they were sick," says Mickel, 21, of Monroe, La. "Now, if someone misses classes, you'd probably still let them, but you're also thinking: 'Gee, you might get the A while I don't.'"
There is no quota in individual courses, despite what students think, says Dean of the College Nancy Malkiel. Still, the policy has made an A slightly more elusive. In the first two years, A's, (A-plus, A, A-minus), accounted for 41% of undergrad grades, down from 47% the two previous years.
Though a typical Princeton overachiever might blanch at the mere mention of a B, the university is sticking by its policy, Malkiel says. Students' employment and graduate school placements actually have improved the past two years, she says.
Perhaps we'll start doing this at Penn State.
252 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 252 of 252I hate to have to admit this, but school has never seemed to be hard for me. I escaped high school with a 3.9 at a relatively prestigious school while hardly putting in the effort of my classmates who received grades well below mine. I never thought, however, that these grades were owed to me by my teachers. I simply took them and realized that they were the grades that I was going to get. Some courses were tougher than others, especially the ones that were supposed to “prepare me for college”. Even these courses were never really too hard, so I ever expected college to be this hard.
During this, my first year in college, I have put in more work and effort than I did combined in my four years of high school. Although, I am putting in far more effort and receiving lower grades, I realize that these are the grades I deserve. Maybe if I did everything I could possibly do and still received low grades, I would not think that I deserve high grades. I simply blame it on the fact that the material is hard, or that the teacher is a hard grader. It seems to me that I have come to lower my standards, and as much as I hate this, I realize that not everyone will always get A’s just because they put in the effort.
I do not believe that there should be such a thing as grade deflation. If a student get’s an A, then clearly they understand the material, and that is all that matters. Maybe the test should be a little harder, and if they still understand the material, then they will still get a good grade. I feel this way especially about schools such as Princeton and other prestigious schools such as the other Ivy League schools. Clearly, the students who attend these schools are the best and the brightest, whether they work hard for it, or it naturally comes to them. If they get the grade, good for them, they deserve it. Why let a student get an A, and then tell them that their final grad is going to be lowered just because too many students got the same grade as them. I just don’t get it.
It makes me mad when students say that they deserve at least a B for “just going to class” or for “doing all of the required reading”. That shouldn’t automatically give you an A, it should simply help you to better understand the material so that one can help himself or herself to put themselves in a better position to get that A. going to class and doing the readings isn’t what should “give” you an A, it should simply be a part of earning the A, or B, or C for that matter, because after all, who cares, “C’s earn degrees”.
I agree with what the article was saying, that people think been a smart person is getting an A. Personally grades don't mean anything to me because they only show that you can memorize an information. The question doesn't ask whether you had comprehend the or understood the message. I also think the grading system is very messed up because some of them don't even give you a feed back. For example I am a business major and I had to take junior core courses last year. Every time we had an exam we would make a schedule in a lab and take the exam. The result was sent to us through angel without telling you which once you got wrong or right. To me it seems like we were graded based on memorizing the information and it seemed like it didn't matter whether we actually had knowledge or understood the materials. I feel like maybe that's why students don't really care what they are learning as long as they getting good grades. I think a large reason for why universities are giving out more A’s is because of all the money student’s families are paying out for them to go to school. This is especially true for private schools. It is expected that these students receive high grades in their universities so that they may land the best jobs and positions in graduate schools. Even in high schools the private school where most of their students end up in Ivey colleges, the students are giving free as because it makes their school look good. I think part of the reason why students want to get A by just trying is because that's all they did in high school. At the college level I think it might be a little harder to differentiate. Considering that each university is different in course offerings and content covered in classes, it might be very difficult for classes and employers to really differentiate those students that took the most challenging curriculum they could and those who took the easy way out to ensure an A. It is interesting because those who challenged themselves are much more likely to be better thinkers and problem solvers, and maybe to have even picked up a thing or two in college, but may be less likely to be hired or accepted to a graduate program because they have a few more B’s on their transcript. This has forced students to cheat their work in order to try to please the teacher and get the A. However, what students don’t realize is that grades shouldn’t matter. What is the point of paying a lot of dollars at a University to come out with no knowledge but instead a bunch of straight A? I guess this student might they will be hired right away out of school for having a high GPA.
In high school I worked hard to be an A and B student by taking honors and AP classes, while being involved in clubs and sports in order to have an advantage when applying for schools. I feel the problem with students thinking they deserve an A or a better grade in classes in college is rooted from high schools. I think high schools are much less challenging in senior courses and it does not prepare us enough for the hardship in college. For example, there are teachers in every high school that teach a course where you can get an easy A. I definitely was one of those senior students that took some of those classes because I knew I didn’t want to be overwhelmingly stressed out my last year of high school, I wanted to have fun. I personally think I do not stand alone on this issue. Therefore, if students are receiving easy grades in easy classes’ right before school, they are going to expect easy A’s in college too. I feel if high schools had more required classes’ senior year besides gym and English, classes that were harder and more challenging to prepare them for college, they would have a different mentality. They would go into college knowing they are going to have to work so much hard and put in more effort is they want an A or B.
The one issue I had with this article was the teacher that said, ““I tell my classes that if they just do what they are supposed to do and meet the standard requirements, that they will earn a C”. I might be interpreting this wrong, but I feel if you do everything that is asked of you and meet all the requirements and study hard for the exams, you shouldn’t get a C for the class. I am not sure if he means standard requirements as minimal requirements or maximum, but I am reading it as maximum. Most classes you have to get a C in order for it to count as credit. So, if you work your ass off in the class and that equals a C, there is no leeway room for a bad test taker or a slip on a test. I think if you put in all your effort and do quality work, you should be at least able to get an A. I am not saying everyone that works hard deserves an A; I am saying that having a C the standard for maximum effort and work is unfair because that makes getting an A almost impossible. I do think a lot of people think they deserve an A when they really don’t. However, that doesn’t mean you should make getting it impossible; they should make it very challenging.
While reading this blog, I have to say that I have mixed feelings about this. I am not sure if I can say that I agree or disagree with the policy of getting an A harder to achieve. However, I must say that I have had experience with this policy in one of my classes here at Penn State. Coming from a high school where I was in the top percentage of my class, I was eager to see how I would do in college. In my first semester here I took CAS 100A. The instructor informed us from the very beginning that there was a problem with grade inflation in the department and that giving an A for the class was probably not going to happen. I thought right then and there that that was not fair or right. I worked very hard in that class, attended regularly, saw the instructor for extra help and only got a B+ because apparently it was advised against to get an A. There is also another side to this story. Today we live in a tech-savvy world. Getting access to information is just a click away. Years ago, to achieve good, honest grades you had to work yourself and actually look hard for information. College students today do not have the research skills of college students past. So, is an A today worth the same as an A given to a student before technology ruled the world? I do not think it is. Last semester, a professor informed the class that the ‘real world’ was having problems with Penn State graduates saying that graduates working in the fields they were said to have the right experience in were not ready and cold barely write a good research paper. Again, that is one of the problems. Are we being prepared for the real world? Has the world load and grading gotten easier? To me, yes it has. I think that this is damaging to us, the generation of the future. We are getting the short end of the stick. It is true that college students do half the work and expect a high grade. Reading the article, I agree with it. The professors and instructors are making their expectations higher to benefit us. Of course during our years here we may not look at it that way, it will help us in the real world after Penn State. Thinking of the feeling of accomplishment after graduation knowing that you worked hard and truly earned a grade that is hard to achieve is something that no one can take from any one. Students will push themselves to achieve what is expected of them and in the end see what their drive has given them.
I came to college with the notion that it would be a harder version of high school. Boy was I completely wrong. I was the person in high school who got straight A’s, was involved in several clubs, president of many social groups and played about 3 sports all while maintaining my 3.8 GPA. My parents were the ones who if I received a B would put me on punishment for a month. I mostly felt that college was going to be easy because I took many AP classes that were supposed to be a simulation of what a college class would be and aced them easily. Now I am not saying that just because I was a straight A student that A’s should just be given to me. Nor do I think I should get grades that I do not deserve but it hurts when I put in so much effort and only receive a B- or C+. How am I supposed to feel? If you put all the effort you possibly can into a class it should reflect in your grade. What about the students that go to every class, read every chapter of the text multiple times but still only receive a C? Do you know how annoying it is when someone says next time try harder, when you did try your hardest? Personally I feel like punching someone in the face when that happens. Effort should be a part of the grade, while test do measure what you retain, effort is what really means that you are doing your best. Why should a student that can read something once the night before the test and have it memorized get an A, while the student who has a horrible memory, studies for 2 weeks gets a C? This makes no sense to me. Grades have always been a subject that is debatable. Not every teacher teaches the same or gives out the same grades for a particular amount of work. If my friend and I take the same class but with different teachers and I get a B ,is it fair if she does the same amount of work in her class but gets an A.
At Princeton, limiting the amount of A’s that students can receive is just ridiculous and stupid. If you earned an A in a course you should receive that grade. This policy is also telling students that only so many students will get an A so how exactly is this fair. I thought that students were supposed to earn grades but obviously in Princeton even if you earn an A you might now receive one because too many students already have one.
Sam always talks about how grades shouldn’t matter and that “C’s equal degrees”. Unfortunately this is not the mindset of most students, including myself. C’s for me are upsetting and not satisfying. Obviously everyone wants to get A’s and if we are studying for a test it is not usually to learn the information, more just to do well on an exam. Although this sounds bad, it is the reality that grades determine your life. Sometimes even when we’re young in elementary school, we get tested to see if we’re “gifted”. When we’re in middle school grades give us special advantages like going on trips or being able to pick an option first because of the better grade. And in high school grades have a lot to do with what college you attend. In college, the next step is having a high GPA to eventually put on your resume and find a job. In a sense I do understand why Sam preaches about grades not being important and actually learning the information is more important, but then again, you can’t compete with the facts. Grades do determine a lot of what your life will be.
I remember in 5th grade I had gotten 100s on every single science test in my class. The last test came up and I was so nervous because I wanted another 100% so badly to keep my average. I ended up getting a 97% and when I found out I burst into tears. Okay, granted this is 5th grade we’re talking about, that would not be the case if I was in that situation now probably, but the point is at such a young age I was so pressured about keeping a silly 100% average when maybe after that test it was a 99% or 98% average. My parents have never been the type to be strict about my grades like some of my other friends. I remember sometimes if they got below a B on their report cards they would be grounded. I never had that problem with my parents, they were very supportive every step of the way, which makes me wonder where did this intense stress of getting a 100% average in my 5th grade science class come from? Although it isn’t quite the same now, I still am always stressed about my grades and instead of getting a 90% on exam I would have been much more happy with a 95%. I know that may sound crazy, but I can’t help myself with thinking that it is just the way life is for me at least and my peers.
Sure, going to school should really be about learning and valuing the information being taught. However, with grades being very important in the back of everyone’s mind, most will be much more preoccupied with receiving the good grade instead. Of course, it should all come together in a package – paying attention and going to class in general, doing your homework, and studying, that should all make it easy to get an A. It would be nice and definitely a release of stress if grades really didn’t mean that much, but unfortunately they do. Because of that reason alone, the mindset of students wanting to do well so they have a good GPA or report card, is not going to change.
I think the idea of institutions limiting the number of A’s given out per class is ludicrous. I am a believer in the saying “C’s get degrees”, but if I get an A in a class that is what I want to go on my transcript, despite some quota set by the school. I some classes it is almost impossible to get an A, so if I get an A, I deserved it. I think the increase in students getting A’s in classes has to do with the resources that we have available and how most students now, network and work together to get good grades in classes. Institutions should not dampen these achievements, because if I work hard in a class to get an A and I am not giving the A because of some limitation, all of my work would have been in vain and that would cause me to lose my motivation to get good grades in all of my other classes.
The most discouraging thing that I have encountered in my college career was to hearing a professor say in the lecture heading up to a final, “You should shoot for a 25% on the final, if you get a 25 you are looking good.” In my mind I am thinking this is ridiculous, why do you have to make it so hard to get a descent grade? In turn I was very discouraged, didn’t study for that final, because why study when I know I am going to fail anyway? I know most of the other students felt the same as I did. I ended up having to take the class over again. Limitations on grades is detrimental to students progress, this will give students the feeling that all of their work will be in vain.
I feel that most institutions will cause the students to compete and in turn make even better grades. Some how this will increase competition within the classrooms and weed out the weak. But what about those in the middle who can’t make those marks? Some people just don’t do well with grades; they pass and get average grades, which do not reflect their knowledge of the material. Some students that have the best understanding of the materials may not always do well on exams. This may be discouraging to them as well. In very rare cases will this cause school to be more competitive, but in most cases it will just be useless. I mean school is already competitive enough, we have to compete to get into college, then we have to compete to get into a good grad school, why make it even harder. Now we have to compete for A’s, it is already hard enough to get A’s in some classes competing for the pluses and minuses is crazy…
The overall focus on grades and A’s in college courses is unfortunate, but at the same time is absolutely necessary. Post-graduate programs have gotten so competitive that students must earn top-notch grades to even be considered. As a student competing for entrance into dental school, I feel immense pressure to receive A’s in all of my courses. The acceptance rate into dental school is around 5-10% and the average applicant has a GPA around 3.7. I find myself only concerned with the grades I get as opposed to actually enjoying my courses and the material I am reading. I feel like grades really are overshadowing the pleasure that college courses could bring to students. However, I am not sure that anything can be done about this; it is just a natural development in response to increased competition. Obviously, it is not a bad thing for young Americans to have a competitive drive, it just sucks that college students cannot truly relax and enjoy taking in knowledge.
I absolutely disagree with students “grade grubbing” in order to get A’s. I think if a student works hard and does his best in a course, he should take the grade he gets and know that he could not have done any better. Just because you try hard does not necessarily mean you deserve an A. I have taken many upper level physics and chemistry courses that I tried my absolute hardest in, but I ended up with B’s. I wish I could have earned an A, but I understand that quantum chemistry is not my strong point. The fact is, some people are simply smarter than others and despite copious amounts of studying, there will be a point when less intelligent students will not (and should not) be able to earn the same caliber of grades as more intelligent students. I do think that A’s should be reserved for top of the line work and a person does not deserve an A just because he wants one really badly. It probably is a good idea for universities to lower the overall amount of A’s they give out, but this should be a nationwide effort and not occur at only some universities. If only some schools cut down on A’s, students from those colleges would have a disadvantage in the work field post graduation. I do not necessarily think that schools should have a quota for the amount of A’s given out, but if the article is correct and 47% of students are earning A’s in courses, that is way too many. It takes away from the value of an A. However, I think that a grade of 90% or higher should always be considered an A. In all, the focus on A’s is an inevitable result of increased competition in school and in the work place. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but schools probably should keep an eye on the number of A’s being given out so that they hold their value.
In the world we live in today, there is constant pressure especially when it comes to education. There are children who are burnt out at the age of six because their parents have thrust them into intensive early childhood education where they must be bilingual, memorize capitals, understand the American political system while at the same time juggle playing four different sports. This overachieving mentality is continued with us from early childhood education up through high school and eventually into our undergraduate studies. We all certainly want the high GPA to set ourselves apart from our peers. The issue at hand is whether students are worthy of the A grade. During my first year here, I’ve witnessed a lot of students who feel entitled to an A when they expect doing little studying or putting in little effort in a group project will merit an A. Clearly, if you don’t put forth a genuine effort, an A in unattainable. I will be the first to admit that I am an overachiever. I’m the girl studying in the library most nights and will spend many weekends party free because I know the grade I need for my major. In this instance, I feel I deserve the A when my study habits, continual class attendance and reading are more than the average or C I would expect.
This semester I have a new Econ professor who felt the need to make tests not representative of the material covered in class (ie questions regarding current events articles we didn’t have access to and only mentioned them twice). Now, I put four solid days in of studying and reviewing material related to her practice exam and clicker questions and saw one question on the exam similar to any review material. The complexity of the exam was completely uncalled for as she said she was trying to reward students for coming to class, yet I never skipped a class and barely did better than the class average. In the beginning, this teacher never had students in her best interest until she saw the average was far below the normal C average. I definitely feel frustrated when professors don’t genuinely care about students until it’s too late. In this case, maybe they are not cut out for teaching and should return to industry work. For the most part, all of my classes have averages around the B minus or C range so they are extremely fair. Another major issue is Corporate America pushes us to strive for a certain level of achievement. I intend to be a Finance major where I need to maintain a minimum 3.4 GPA for the next year. IIt’s definitely a scary thought to know if I mess up even one class I could risk not being able to be accepted as a Finance major. I can’t afford to not get A’s or A minuses when my future is on the line. Maybe Corporate America and the Smeal College of Business should get away with GPA requirements and begin looking at our personalities and driven personalities. Maybe then we can have successful, ambitious and competent people leading our country rather than the corrupt business professional of Wall Street who probably graduated with extremely high GPA’s.
Every time papers get handed back from teachers, there are at least three people that come up to me and say, “What did you get?” What’s funny is that they don’t really care about what you got. To be honest, they don’t give a damn. What they want to know is if they did better than you. Then I always hear my peers chattering or complaining about their grades. You usually hear things like “Are you kidding me, I was up all night doing this paper” or “ The teacher hates me”. It’s like when we get a bad grade; we tend to blame the teacher rather than ourselves. I did a project for an online class last semester and I worked on it for the weekend. I handed it in and got a 0 out of 10. For a moment, I was angry at the teacher. But when I read the teacher’s comments, I knew that he was absolutely right. Even though I put a lot of effort in the project, I didn’t really follow instructions. Therefore, I got a 0. Now many people would probably go straight to the teacher and say that the grade is totally unfair and that they should’ve gotten at least a 6/10 or something because of the amount of effort. The problem here is that we tend to think that because we put in effort, we should get a good grade. That’s not always the case. So we’re basically saying that if a very talented English student writes an exquisite paper and a not so talent student writes an okay paper but put more effort than the talent student, the other student should get a higher grade than the talented student or a grade that’s almost similar. That’s a little unfair for the talented student, don’t you think? Another example is art. For my art class, it’s not about how talented you are, it’s about how much effort you put in your pieces. So basically the grade you get in the class means nothing. I don’t think any art studio is going to look at how good you did in the class. They’re going to look at your portfolio. If it’s good for them, they’ll take you. If not, too bad.
This all shows how vulnerable we are as students. It’s as if we have a right to get good grades as long as we work hard. But from what I’ve heard, the real world is nothing like that. They’re going to be times where you work your butt off on something and it fails. The question is what are you going to do about? Complain and rant that you don’t deserve failure, or do something about it. When I get a bad grade, I look at what I did wrong and make sure I don’t do the same mistakes. But we as students would rather be perfect than to learn from our mistakes. What people don’t see is that school is more about experience rather than grades.
I’ve been aware of this grade “deflation” before this article. I think it’s a terrible idea. I also think that grading based on “effort” is shit, too. If you have a stupid person who just tries so hard, but can’t get any better than a “C,” too bad so sad. We don’t all have the same intelligence level, and the people worse off are going to do worse, and they should (in school). These people who work hard but are not smart will still be able to support themselves because the working force rewards hard workers.
Back to the grade deflation. I understand that grades can be bought and negotiated. That’s stupid, but the answer is not deflating grades, to make “A’s” scarcer. If the teachers and professors would just make the material more difficult, natural selection will do the rest. I went through high school, taking every honors and AP class offered. I got straight A’s with the scale that a 93% was an A- and a 92% was a B+. I thought that was stupid. 90% should be an A. The classes were ridiculously easy, and I was challenged only in my art classes, because I chose to push myself. Art grades are based somewhat on “effort,” but I feel even that is pushing the limit. In high school, you don’t have to take art. There are plenty of other offered courses, so if you sign up for it, you should have some talent. I liked how physics was graded. During labs, you’d have to guess where something was going to land, or how far something would go, ect. There was no effort grade. There was no point value for doing the work. There was only a grade for accuracy. You are given a target to place where you’d like, and the target has a small circle for an “A” and a larger circle outside for a “B” and so on. That is fair grading, it’s nonobjective and if everybody succeeds, then everybody can get the “A.”
Some teacher was quoted as saying something along the lines of “Students think that an A is the default grade, but really a C is.” That’s shit too, for someone who probably hands out a syllabus, outlining point values and setting up hoops for students to jump through in order to get the “A.” If a requirement is listed as X number of points, and a student completes the requirement sufficiently, then the student deserves X number of points.
Being in college, A’s are still prevalent, but classes are somewhat challenging. I’m having to study and what-not, as I see other students doing. The fact that many of us are still getting A’s is more a correlation of us working harder for the grade we want. I feel some of the class work could be a little more involved than it is, but overall I have a good impression of Penn State’s difficulty and integrity level.
I think that a lot of what this article has to say is very true. Most of us do automatically feel that if we fulfill the basic requirements, then we should receive an A. In my cas 100a class, (aka speech), she informed us of just that; if you stand up there and give a speech you are going to get a C. You have to be “excellent” to receive an A. But I think that most people, (myself included), forget that the average is supposed to be a C. Very rarely do we see a 75% average for a test, and if it is that low, teachers are usually finding ways of either curving the test to an 80% or offering extra credit opportunities. Everyone gets A’s these days. It is getting to become too common. And because we are so used to getting A’s, it is very difficult to cope with anything other than the status quo. We will often times complain to teachers and say that it is unfair, or that we have never gotten such a low grade on an exam. I am no exception; I have definitely sent the email asking for a grade change (it didn’t work, but I can’t say I didn’t try). But where did all these A’s come from? Is it that we are becoming inherently smarter through generations of evolution? Has technology allowed us access to greater resources whereby we have increased our overall intelligence and ability to perform? Well, to a certain extent yes, but not necessarily in a good way. I think that we have become smarter, smarter at cheating the system. If you look at websites like “rate my professor,” for example, you will see a database that allows students to preview what others have had to say about their professor before they take a class with him or her. You are ability to see this particular professor’s clarity, easiness, helpfulness, and even hotness. This way, you never have to take a professor that doesn’t have an easiness rate that is to your liking. I know a lot of people who have opted not to take a class because their professor got a bad rating. So, what happens to the kid who doesn’t go on these websites and sticks with the class only to earn a B+ after a semester of hard work. They might even have learned a thing or two. While we decided to take the teacher who throws bonus at us, and end up just squeaking by with a 93 or 94 and no long term knowledge to show for it. Our grade point average thanks us, however, and you know we are going to get the interview first. Yes, something is flawed. People shouldn’t put as much of an emphasis on grades, but then again, neither should the companies who are hiring.
I also got through high school very easily, but I happened to take the harder classes as a choice. I felt like I had to always strive for the top. I defiantly know it was because of m parents in grade school, but I think I made those choices in high school. I took two Advances Placement classes, along with four classes at a local college in which I was called a Junior Achiever. With all of that on my schedule, I still strived for A’s and would be extremely upset with myself if I received a B. However, I have never received a C, until I got my first C+ last semester. That one was hard for me to handle. I don’t like to be considered average. Average people don’t get the career they want. I want to have a fulfilling career of my choice.
These days, the only way to be looked at by an employer is through grades. I think it’s quite ridiculous really. How can someone look at a piece of paper to judge you and your on-hands work? One person can know the detailed reading and writing part, when the other person can suck at learning from a book but be awesome at doing it in actual life. People are better at different things and people learn material better in very different ways.
Personally, I consider myself one of those people who likes to go to class and listen. I’d rather sit in an auditorium than reading a book. I think it’s because I like the entertainment part. Therefore I have trouble studying on my own, and I can’t concentrate. I sometimes fall asleep or frequently have to take breaks. But I love going to class and can sit there every minute of it. I have only missed one class this semester, and it’s only because I did it by mistake.
As far as GPA goes, there is many problems. GPA doesn’t stand for your on-hands skills. But classes are starting to get more innovated, I noticed. I have a radio broadcasting class that I can say is pretty on-hands. So when I say that GPA doesn’t show your on-hands skills, it depends on the major. Business majors don’t get to start a business as a class, do they? So maybe there can be a better way to separate people into their careers than just a GPA. For right now, that’s the best choice. There are too many people out there these days that are competing for the same thing. No employer has the time to look at every respective applicant. GPA will stand as the major reason some don’t get jobs. Others may have an okay GPA but have an awesome personality at their interview. Then there are those few left who have a high GPA that just get the job. It sucks, but there’s no other way to do it right now.
I do not really know how I feel about this particular subject. I mean- I want to say that people put in the effort deserve the “A” but at the same time I feel like those who do not really learn anything should not receive an “A” and basically fake the fact that they are enlightened in that certain area. All through high school, I had straight A’s and had a gpa over a 4.0 because of the honors classes I took. Looking back, I did put in a lot of work but at the same time, the work was fairly easy to me and I knew how to essentially “work the system” and do work when I knew I needed to and study what I knew I should, etc. I did try really hard and definitely put in a great deal of effort, but at the same time I was memorizing facts the night before a test just so I could spill it out onto the test and then forget about it. I don’t think this is really the proper strategy that an “A” student should have.
I got to college and it was along the same lines of what happened in high school- only harder and with more distractions. But, I have learned how to work the system again and I have figured out (mostly) what I need to do to get the “A”. This time around, however, it really has taken me a lot more studying and effort to get the “A”. I feel like if students are putting the right kind of effort into something and really know the subject, or perform well enough to prove that they know what they’re talking about then they do deserve the “A”. There are some students who don’t go to classes and show up for the tests and ace them because they are naturally smart. The know what to study, and they can learn things fast. This has always frustrated me because I am not like that and have to work hard for my good grades. But, I know that at the same time others may think that of me. This is why I really don’t know which side to go far. I want to say that people should be out there thinking and actually learning stuff because I know that that is the only way that is really going to get your somewhere. But, how are you going to be able to tell the difference between those who are just naturally smart and those that are really putting in the extra effort?
As far as Princeton limiting the amount of A’s given out, I am kind of confused by it. I feel like two students could have essentially the same grade and if the cut off is at a certain number then who actually does get the “A”? Plus, I feel like these students are going to do everything they possibly can to get the “A” and what does that really do- they are just learning to work a new system, right?
Honestly there is too much pressure on students to get that “A.” Students think if they do not have that perfect GPA then they will not get their dream job. Although other factors do exist students have it stuck in their minds that if they don’t have the perfect 4.0 they it is bye-bye dream job. The problem is students are studying for the perfect score on the exam. As soon as the test is over students have already forgotten the material. If the material is forgotten then it really isn’t that useful especially when it comes time to go into your career field. Maybe you will remember the highlights but for the most part it’s all forgotten. I am just as guilty of this as the next person sitting next to me in Soc. If grades were more about passing and failing grades rather than an “A” meaning a 4.0 and everything below means you are screwed isn’t fair. Last time I checked a “C+” was still a passing grade. If you received an “A” in a class it meant you were going above and beyond. Now so many students feel the stress to go above and beyond that everything else is meaningless.
Over the past few years I have heard more and more horror stories of students bad study habits. A few years ago Robitussin was being abused among students. An increasing number of students are taking caffeine pills or Addreal to help them stay awake longer in order to study or to pull an all nighter. It has come to the point where students are abusing or overdosing on these drugs for a good grade. Is it worth it to hurt your body for the “A”? In my opinion it’s really worth it but hey that’s just me. I think if you study hard and prepare far enough in advance you shouldn’t need to cram the last minute and use stimulants so you can pull an all nighter. And since when did pulling an all nighter become the best study habit? Sometimes it works but I think it’s safe to say all nighters aren’t the best idea.
Getting your dream job is obviously every college students ultimate goal otherwise why would they be in college. While working hard is worth it, do you think in 10 years from now you will remember what you learned in a classroom? The most valuable experience and knowledge you can learn is on the job, working with people in the industry, getting your feet wet and hands dirty. After you have that first job employers aren’t really going to care if you had a 4.0 GPA and if you graduated first in your class. Employers want to know about your experience and what you can bring to the table and their company. So yes of course you should study hard while you are in college but also find those great internships, co-ops, or any opportunity available in your industry. Get the good grades but don’t kill yourself for it.
I floated all through high school with a 3.714 GPA. It was stoic. I couldn’t budge it if I tried. It would neither go up nor down no matter the efforts that I put into things. I did well enough. A B was always unacceptable in my house, unless for an AP class. Even then, my parents were not happy when I earned an A in every AP class but got a 2 out of 5 on the placement tests at the end of the year. I hated exams so I never studied. I just did all my homework and as long as I got B’s on exams I could get A’s in most classes. I wasn’t motivated to do well. I was motivated to get good grades. To be honest, I wasn’t really even that motivated. I did what I had to do to keep my parents at bay. I came to Penn State on an athletic scholarship—no, I’m not just a dumb jock. When my first exams rolled around I tried something new—I studied. Wow. People must be really unintelligent because this school thing is easy. I started acing exams. Not 90’s or 95’s. I got 100’s. I was that kid in the class who screwed up the curve for everyone else. I loved it. This whole doing all of my work and taking a little bit of time to study thing was working quite nicely. Now I must say. I have NEVER pulled an all nighter. I have never talked my way into a better grade. I have never cheated to get ahead in my classes. In group work, I always take the lead. In my work, I’m often done early enough so I can cross things off my list. So if professors want to make it harder for the average student to get an A, I am all for it. If I am putting in the work to get an A and my lowly lab partner saunters into class high, drunk, and sexually frustrated from the night before, it’s his or her own fault. I don’t want to hold your hand and let you copy my notes. Do it yourself. This entry makes me seem like I have a giant stick up my ass and I am a no-nonsense, stay in on Friday to do homework type. It’s not true. But I work hard for what I get, so I would appreciate it if everyone did. Go on ahead Prof, let me see what you can get. Oh and by the way, I am graduating in May, so as far as I care, instigate this new philosophy in June. Thanks.
Every since I was a child having good grades was always the priority that all the kids in the house had except for me. My step dad was always on my step sisters and step brothers case if they were not amongst the first to third when the students in the class were ranked. I pretty much did not care so much about my grades and would probably have more B’s and C’s than A’s on my report card. The teachers in my high school always put emphasis on how getting good grades would enable one to become the best they can be and to be put in high ranking positions if they wanted to. You would always have students spending endless amounts of time sitting in the library or studying late into the night (which was not allowed) in my Catholic all girl boarding school.
So then I enter college for my first semester, I am not too sure what fuss is with G.P.A.’s and the like in American schools but I do try to get good enough grades and ended up with a 3.2. At that point I compared my grades to that of my peers and got to know about the dean’s list and all the honors associated with having a 3.5 G.P.A. and above and from that following semester, I have been on the dean’s list till now that I am a junior and if I see anything less than an A- on my grade report I cringe. I place a lot of emphasis on academic excellence because it makes me feel good that I am able to achieve this when I didn’t know I had this high academic potential. I feel having good grades does push one forward because for example, a friend of mine who is a junior and has a 3.94 cumulative was able to secure a very good internship not by having any prior internship position but just because of her G.P.A. I feel that this tells recruiters how hard a person can work if placed in a working environment which urges them take such bright students into consideration.
However, I do not agree with the grade ranking in Penn State, like why can’t we just have grades be solid A’s, B’s, C’s and so on. I was not really accustomed to that before I came over here and would really like to understand what the minuses and pluses really signify. Also in terms of the students who say that if they are working hard and the professor obviously recognizes that, that should be taken into consideration when giving the final grade, I definitely agree with that. If a professor is just going to base the grades he gives on the scores on tests, I think that it is unfair to many students since we do not all have the same academic potential. Some may be working very hard but unfortunately cannot get the grades the so- called A students are achieving so it is at this point the professor’s discretion must come into to aid students.
In today’s extremely competitive job market the pressure to outperform one’s peer in the area of academics is extremely high. The expectations on an individual to achieve high grades to insure a job in this extremely scary job market are almost daunting. So with this intense amount of pressure it only seems reasonable for students to expect professors to be some what sympatric to this problem. Where I personally differ with many of the students quoted in the New York Times article is that the mere effect to do the requirements warrants an A. But on the other hand I agree with the statement its almost futile to give complete and total effort in a class to only receive an “C”, if I knew there was class that no matter how much effort and work you put in to succeeding in, the most likely finial grade would be a “C’, I would without a doubt avoid this class at all cost. I think that a middle ground on this issue needs to be achieved, where professors realize the grave impact student’s exam scores have on their future but where hard work and maximum effort are not compromised. I without a doubt disagree with the policy in place at Princeton. It seems to me that they are capping off the amount of A’s which are able to be earned which is completely unfair, as students are in constant pursuit of an every moving A. Like one student said this type of atmosphere creates a massively competitive environment where teamwork and respect for your fellow student suffer, to qualities which are valued highly in the work force. I would avoid attending a university which pitted me against my peers in such a hostile way. I am competitive in my life to begin with, I despise taking classes with friends because I find myself constantly competing with them for grades and if I attended a university that openly emphasized this type of behavior I know I would go crazy. Pressures on students to achieve this high grades comes from many different place including the work force and in many cases at home. The demands of many people’s expectations are high in that they see sending their children to college as an investment and want the highest return on this investment. The anxiety for a student to fulfill these parental expectations is unbelievably high and is the reason these students stress the importance of getting A’s. I agree with the general idea that students do feel entitled to high grades for only doing a moderate amount of work but at the same time I believe that professor do need to be a bit sensitive in the way they grade, knowing that a single grade they give could impact the recipients future.
I kind of wish this article had specified what area of study these averages are coming from. It just seems like when we are discussing grades that it would be good to clarify what classes we are referring to. For example, an A in a Math class and an A in an English class are two totally different things. Overall, I agree with the article that most students today are probably living in an inflated world of entitlement. I feel like college culture encourages us to be 18 to 22 year old boys and girls instead of men and women. People generally distinguish college from “the real world,” it’s like some kind of theme park or something. It’s very interesting. From my perspective as a student, it feels like I am constrained and restricted to taking required classes and doing work that I don’t want to do. On the other side of it, however, I get to study whatever I want. If I don’t like a professor I can, for the most part, drop the class or change majors or whatever. These options are readily available to me. It’s not like if I fail a class, my family starves the next day. I’m being really broad here, but I just want to illustrate how privileged we already are as students. It’s only natural that after a while we would take this completely for granted and fall into a mentality of entitlement. And does it really stop with grades? Anyway, back to the beginning. As far as subjects like Math go, I don’t think a deflation system makes sense. If people get the material and do everything you ask them to, they should get an A (unless we’re talking about developing new mathematical theory or something). When we get into subjects like English, things become more subjective and difficult to evaluate. Who can call something original? Who has the authority to define something as “brilliant?” I’m not bashing the system entirely, but I do feel that it can get kind of ridiculous at times. I think that we need to revamp the grading system as it pertains to more subjective criteria. More than one qualified professor should read it; chances should be given to improve, etc. It shouldn’t be a handout, but the bulls-eye needs to be identified. Statements like “go further” and “say more” are really ineffective on their own. So really this whole grading thing is a twofold issue. Yes, students are feeling more entitled, but ultimately it is the teacher who gives the final grade. Who do we blame for the increase of A’s? Why is it that the teachers have gone under the radar? If they feel so strongly about their standards why can’t they uphold them?
I must agree that I do believe that people have not gotten smarter since the 1990’s and the amount of A’s in anything has gone up. I know when I came into college I was under the impression that I was going to have to fight really hard with my other classmates for my grades. It has been that way so far but not in the way that I was thinking. While I have had to fight I do find it easier to get an A than I thought it would be. I was expecting the Princeton like environment where only the top five percent of the class get and A and the next ten percent get a B and so on. That is how you see it in movies and tv and that is what we learn to expect. I also Have noticed that I have associated working hard with getting the higher grade, I do expect that when I put a couple days into a project that I am going to get the A and that when I only put a little time into the assignment that I am going to get the lower grade.
I think grade entitlement is embedded into our heads a children. We believe that we are told that the more time we put into something the better grade we will get. But in truth it should be the higher quality work we do the better grade we get. I know in high school I never spent any time on homework and anything of that sort but I know that if I showed I was trying to do something when the teacher came around to check I was going to get the better grade. I say all this being a straight a honor society student. So I will say that my mind set changed drastically since coming to Penn State and taking college courses. It was a culture shock when I came here and expected that if I put time into something I was going to get good grades and that was the total opposite. Here a Penn State I feel that it is all about quality expect for the few professors that do not care. I will say that I had a professor grade forty finals exams in two hours and all the exams were comprised of three essays that had to be at least two paragraphs. I think that is crazy and it is not an over exaggeration. I think there needs to be a change for the few professors that do this type of grading because it is wrong, I believe that maybe some people in that did not deserve the grade they got and that might even include me. But if Penn State were to change over to a type of grading scale where only a certain amount of people got an A I would not be too happy because What if I deserved that A and worked hard and had the high quality work but I was just unable to attain the A because the professor already gave out to many of them. I think we should get the grades we worked for and deserve.
Some students are obsessed with getting A’s and it doesn’t mean that they are actually learning material. Students can memorize essay questions, facts, and so on but they can study and remember these details for an exam and then let it flow right out of their brain after they know they aren’t going to be tested on it. There are some majors that allow people to get away with this and there are other majors that never let this happen. For example, I’m a journalism major and there’s no way for me to memorize articles—every article is different and the more I write the more I learn how to write—so practice makes perfect I guess.
Some students can get a little upset if they receive a grade that they do not necessarily think they deserve. I’ve taken exam where I have read all of the readings, gone to all the lectures, studied and I receive a “C” on the exam. The truth is, I’m a horrible exam taker and that’s probably why I am so good when it comes to writing papers or even taking an essay exam. When it comes to a multiple choice exam I double guess myself and screw up—but just because I got a “C” on that exam doesn’t mean I don’t’ know the material. What upsets me is not that I got a “C” but I hate the fact that my professor may be thinking that I didn’t study. I think that earning good grades for professors I like makes me feel great and I show them that I appreciate their teach style and that I respect them as an individual. Do I sound crazy? I have had professors in the past that are horrible at their job, not taught the class well and made me want to not study and avoid doing the course work. Now I’m sure I sound horrible.
So, after explaining how I take tests and how I operate with some grades, I just want to say that some students may not be upset about the letter on their exam, it may be what it may possible mean to the professor.
As for the response about letting someone who missed class copy my notes, I think that not letting someone copy notes because they were sick is just not nice. If I was sick (and I have mono so I understand what it’s like to miss class) then I would hope someone would help me out. But when someone I know skips class and they weren’t sick and they wanted go to the philly’s parade so they missed class—I’m not going to jump to passing them my notes. But can you blame my thought process?
As I start a lot of my articles that I read for Sam’s class, I would just like to say wow. I honestly think that this is just another example of how out of touch administrators and professors are out of touch with their students. I would gladly contest that society is simply changing and the attitude that many students take towards college is vastly changing. Students are bringing a whole new attitude to college that was not seen in past years. Being in the fraternity community, I have seen this first hand when it comes to recruitment. It used to be that you could recruit a new member and ask them to drink Monday through Friday no problem (It is important to note that my fraternity does not use alcohol in its pledging process. This information is just from other people that pledged the same semester that I did.). More and more though, freshmen are electing to not even come out to the house on the weekends claiming they have too much work to do. In addition, colleges and universities are becoming far more selective in their recruiting process, meaning that a much higher caliber of student is coming to study. The most ludicrous thing I have ever heard though is in the article where Princeton has implemented that grade deflation system. All that does is cause more unwanted stress and turbulence through college. A simple solution to this (since you cannot score higher than a 100 on an exam, bonus points withstanding) is to make the class harder. Every student should have an equal opportunity to access an A. It should not, however, be turned into a competition. I feel as though Princeton has really taken a lazy approach here. Instead of reevaluating the caliber and difficulty of the classes the school offers, they simply limit the number given out. I would be furious if I put in the amount of effort normally given to earn an A in a class only to be told that I was not going to receive one because some of my peers worked harder than me. While I realize my argument is having trouble manifesting itself, I still feel that colleges need to take the extra step and make their classes more challenging and difficult. This way a C would still be able to reflect an average student. A B good represent a good job and an A would be for only those excellent. But without showing a student what they must achieve prior to the course I feel that the entire system of grades is undermined. I think it could also discourage some students from even trying, giving them the mindset that they’ll never be able to beat out some of their peers because they do not have the time to spend on their studies.
I have to admit that I’m highly offended by the “grades” article and that it disappoints me to know that this is what is becoming of our grading systems amongst colleges. As we already obviously know, Harvard is already a prestigious school and to put a grade deflation policy on top of that is just ridiculous. In my family, school has always played a big role and has always come first. Throughout high school, I was very involved; I played 3 sports, was captain of two, and still managed to take Honor and Advanced Placement courses while still earning As. I do not believe that anyone “deserves” a grade, or that any student should be able to talk their way in or out of a grade. But when a student, including myself, works their absolute hardest and receives no other compensation than a B- or C, then I believe that there is something wrong there. However, I do believe that students need to make the efforts in situations such as the one mentioned about and actually go to the teacher to discuss this. I also feel as if teachers/professors should take this kind of commitment into consideration. Not many students approach teachers with problems concerning their grades or extra help, but rather complain and bitch about how “life is unfair” instead—when a student approaches a teacher seeking help, I believe that that should be taken into consideration. I believe that a student should not be penalized if they are trying their hardest, yet still cannot grasp a certain assignment. Who knows, that certain subject may just be a weak point for the student. To say that “too many” students are receiving As is an irrational remark. A deflation system is absurd as well. That is basically saying that regardless of whether or not you deserve an A, or presented above average and sensation work, you cannot receive an A because this semester is already about the 35 percentile mark. STUPID! Written exams also do not reflect grades as well as it is assumed—and too much weight is put on exams. I personally am not a good test taker being that I get very flustered and nervous knowing that my entire grade depends merely on that specific test, and possibly one to two others. Too much reliability, profiling, etc. is placed on standardized testing, which is a horrible theory. In the real world, I will not be taking tests to reflect my acquired knowledge, but will be taking my experiences and things learned and putting them to use in my personal life. Isn’t that what college is supposed to prepare us for—the real world? Someone please explain to me how tests accomplish that. Students in this society/century really are looking for a magical theory to help guide us through this thing called college, that is doing nothing but coming up short of preparing us for the real world.
First of all I would like to start off by saying that I have always believed grades to be something that a student has to earn by putting in both time and effort to get an A. I had one teacher back in high school that always used to say “I don’t give you your grade, but you earn it”. At times I rolled my eyes at it, but mainly because I was probably just being lazy, because I usually always knew that what she was saying was completely fair. When I did bad on an exam and others did better, I knew that they only scored better because they had studied extra hard while I may have been watching tv. Of course there have always been those students to be envious of that are just naturally smart and seem to do perfectly on almost every assignment or exam, but other than these rare few, I feel that both time and effort is something that needs to be put into your schoolwork in order to obtain a good grade. When I read the story about Princeton University grading policy I did not agree with it at all. This is not the first time that I have heard of such a situation, as I have heard of things such as bell curves and other similar grading policies. But these ways have always seemed completely unfair to me. I mean, in a way I can see how it may provide incentive for each student to work extra hard to try and earn one of the A’s, but if all the students in the class put in the same amount of time and effort, and all perform equally satisfactory on an exam, then they should all be awarded the same grade, without a cut off. It still confuses me, if all students get the same grade, where do you draw the line on who gets an A and who gets a B? Also, the way I look at this policy and bell curves is that it kind of seems as though the teachers or professors want students to do worse. I think that part of it is teachers being stubborn, and don’t want their class to look easy. We all know how important grades are, especially as college students. I am the kind of person to always blame myself for not doing well on a test and never put it on the teacher. If I did not do well, I know that I did not study enough or did not comprehend the information that was taught to me. It is a shame that final grades seem to be such a reflection on a students abilities because they are sometimes not true, but life is not always easy and things are not always handed to you the way that you may like, so instead of beating myself up over grades I try to look at it like that.
I don’t think that grades have gone up over the years because students are getting smarter, nor do I think it is a negative thing. I think there is greater pressure on students to compete for jobs after college or perhaps to fulfill their personal goals. I think it is a shame that schools limit the number of A’s that are awarded to students, not given to them. I learned from my roommate that in our soc 119 discussion sections only one perfect score is given for participation each day we meet. I don’t agree with this system. When I go to that class, every person is engaged in the conversation and participating, not because they are fighting to get the best grade (if that is still how we are graded) but because we are all interested in what is being discussed, and yes, I think most days we all deserve A’s. I know many years ago for most people grades were not as big of a pressure as they are today. When my parents were in college at Wake Forest and the University of Kentucky they admit their grades were not the best. It was good enough to simply be in college and make it through. Today college is expected of most people, and just scraping by doesn’t cut it. For me, it’s more of an obligation that drives me to do well. Sure, I want to do well for myself, but I also appreciate that my parents are working hard to put me through college so I don’t have to stress about money and try to work my way through school. I want to do well and make them proud as a form of that appreciation. I have a friend who is under higher pressure from his parents to get good grades. His dad told him that he would pay for every class he gets an A in, but if he gets a B or lower it is my friend who has to pay for it. There is also the pressure of being accepted into a good grad school—something I have to worry about with my major. I have had to work hard for every A I have gotten in college so far. Some of my friends however have had classes where so much extra credit is given that they end up with crazy grades like 116%! Maybe this it the problem with the grade increase. Though I haven’t come across any of these classes, I have heard of a number of them. It tends to be classes that are taught by young, new professors. Perhaps these issues should be considered before As are limited to hard working students. Then again, perhaps I am just discriminating against new professors.
I completely agree with some of the stuff this article brings up. For example, there really is a formula to get good grades. Go to class, do all of the assignments on time, and cram for exams. That is all it takes, doing this will most likely get you an A or B+. To make it even easier you can get nittany notes so you do not even have to go to class. It is really up to the student to determine how much they want to get out of their college carrier. Having a 3.0 grad point average does not mean that they are doing well in college. It simply means that they are doing what they are told.
Sometimes effort is just not enough. Sure it is great that you may put all of your effort into your school work; but there should be other factors that influence your grade. For example, I think that the quality of work should be the factor that separates students, not the amount of effort put into it.
As one student says in the article, "If someone goes to every class and reads every chapter in the book and does everything the teacher asks of them and more, then they should be getting an A like their effort deserves." I really cannot blame him or having this mentality because I think the majority of students think like this. And this may be how many classes operate. How I see it, it should be the students understanding and manipulation of the material instead of the effort put in. Like I said earlier, there has to be something that separates students, and in the university environment I think it should be intellectual grading, not effort. I realize that there are thousands of students at universities and sometimes it is hard to do this.
Anyway, concerning grades, they are pretty subjectable. Some teachers hand out As and Bs like crazy; on the other hand, there are the teacher that only give Cs to make it look like their class is challenging, but in reality they are terrible teachers. I guess it all depends on the teacher you get.
I also think that parental pressure and competition amoung peers adds to the anxiety of the university environment. What I learned is, that you should do everything for no one else but yourself. If your are going to school just because your parents want you to, you are not doing it for the right reason. Your not getting everything out of the experience, in some way, you are cheating yourself. I am sure that many people in school are doing just this, but whatever. Peer competition is expected. When it comes down to it, students will compete for better grades for a sense of scholastic entitlement. But when getting a job, GPA means very little. For most of the jobs I am looking at, there is just a minimum GPA which should be easy for most people to acheive.
Well first of all, I disagree with the fact that a grade A should be earned if students read what they are suppose to read and put lots of effort. I personally put so much time and effort into every class that I have taken and I am not a straight A students. I am not a good test taker due to various reasons and that stops me from performing as well as I should. Most times people don’t do well and perhaps they do not get an A or a B because of their test taking abilities. I know that getting a letter A grade does not determine how smart someone is.
I do not like Yale’s grading system. The main point of college is to educate students and help them enjoy what they learn. Getting an A can put so much pressure on students and also it takes away from their learning. Students put so much of their energy on getting As rather than just enjoying what they are learning. I find it unfair to only give an A to 35% of the students because this can affect the GPA of so many other students that worked hard but did not make the A due to many different issues.
I think sometimes people put so much time into their studying but they do not have good studying strategies and instead of focusing on the main point in a subject they spend so much time studying unimportant material.
In High school I was an A student and worked hard to be that. After the first test and paper at Penn State I learned that I was not going to be an A student at Penn state. I have never been one to argue grades mainly because I usually deserve the grade I get. Especially tests they are pretty cut and dry. You either get the answer right or you don’t there isn’t much room for argument. I really wish that grades didn’t matter but I am very much aware that this is almost impossible. I love school and learning and always have, most of my friends and siblings attributed that to my good grades. But I am beginning to see that I should be able to love learning even when I don’t get the grades I want. Colleges are made up of High school students that got As in high school. They are all thrown into one school and they all expect to get the same grades they got in high school. It is really hard to look at a c on a test when all you have ever gotten are As. I can especially see this happening in colleges like Harvard and Princeton. Only the most elite of high school students get in and not everyone is going to get the same grades they got in high school. There has been very few classes where I haven’t cared about the grade because I loved the class so much. One class in high school was like this. It was a history class specifically Western civilization. I loved the class it was interesting and they teacher was amazing. But his tests were hard and I had never taken tests like his before, so the first test I failed completely it was the worst grade I have ever gotten on a test in my life. But I still loved the class I loved learning what he taught. After that first test I did better on the other test but still not as well as I normally did. At the end the year seniors who had As in the class didn’t have to take the final. I didn’t have an A obviously but even though it would have normally made me upset and angry at myself for not being the best and achieving the pass on the final I wasn’t upset at all in fact I liked taking the test it helped me remember what I learned and I even enjoyed studying for it. I wish I could feel the same way about all my other classes as I did about that class. Grades shouldn’t matter as much as they do but it is the only way we can prove that we are learning something. It is the only way to show achievement. In high school we get good grades so we can get into college to prove that we are good enough. In college we have to get good grades to get into grad school or get a good job. Everything seems to hang on our grades no wonder we are so obsessed with them.
I loved this article. Let me start by saying I have never been one to complain about grades and hopefully will never come to that point. Mainly because I understand when I work hard and earn a grade or when I just cruise through and don't give a shit about the work I do. I have been in too many classes where as soon as students get back essays, tests, etc., the first thing out of their mouth is "is this going to be curved?" Who cares? Did you not do well enough, so now you expect a curve. Honestly, that bugs me more than anything when I am in a classroom. When a student can go to the teacher and literally beg for a higher grade. Its despicable. Learn to do the work and if you still don't get the grade you hoped for, then maybe you're just not fit for that class. Let's be honest here, if you're not getting a consistent B, or even a low A in a class that you like and you believe that you are working hard for, then you clearly shouldn't be in that class. A C is a minimum effort grade gotten just by following the directions to an essay, project or test. If you are remotely interested in the class and are somewhat smarter than a chimpanzee than you should be able to get a C+ at the least. I had a teacher in high school who would actually drop your grade automatically to a C if you went to him and complained about your grade on a single project and if you complained enough, he would start decreasing your overall grade by intervals of 5 percentage points. I thought that this was genius and that this was also hilarious. He absolutely hated it when students would come to him with questions concerning grades. He hated it. On the other hand, I had another teacher who would give out A's just to shut the kids up. Her reasoning was that learning was about gaining knowledge and so she just decided that to not have to deal with people's complaints she would just give everyone what they wanted. Granted, this teacher was a little nutty, but looking back I had the best experience and still learned more than I've learned in any other class. These two examples are extremes, but I think that they went about it the right way. Each played to the personality of the teacher and that's the reason it worked. To this day, I still can't stand when students complain about grades when all they have to do is put in more effort than a monkey and they have a very good chance of getting a B or above. Meeting minimum standards is very easy and there is no reason to not try harder for a better grade. Stop complaining and do the work.
In relation to this blog entry, I have read an article not to long ago about students’ performance compared to professors’ expectations (I don’t remember what or where that article is though…sorry) Basically, it mentioned that professors’ expectations have not exactly changed throughout the years. The readings, the writings, the attendance – all required and expected to be completed by students accordingly. Professors have claimed that what they have constructed in their respective curriculums is applicable to college students and are constructed as so to challenge them academically. After all, college is supposed to prepare students in the “real world”
Students, however, have a different view. Most students believe that professors are too harsh in assigning workload. They argue that professors expect too much from students; especially if all their professors have a heavy amount of work given simultaneously. I remember reading that most students claim professors nowadays have unrealistic expectations.
Not to say that professors do have unrealistic expectations. But it’s also not too uncommon that students have a lot more on their plate than what may be realized. Many students are involved in a lot of other things while in college. Students can be involved in a number of things: athletics, extracurricular activities, research, and of course, who can forget – jobs. College students’ lives are not as a breeze. I’m sure most, if not all, college students have a jampacked schedule. So yes, it would be a little unrealistic for professors to expect students to read 50 pages in one night. (especially if you have two professors wanting you to read 50 pages in one night). “We have a life, you know.”
Now, there was a part in that article wherein professors are expecting students to always go to their lecture classes. That, I agree upon. I do not understand how students attendance has declined over the years. Maybe part of the reason is that lectures are available online? (thank you technology – it does have its perks). But really, why would you pay horrendous amount of money to go to a well known university (or any college, for that matter) and not even go to class? And then when you get a bad grade you complain about it? As Sam mentioned in his blog, “I'm reasonably certain that students have not gotten THAT much smarter” as well as, “grade inflation has occurred at the same time as we see a widespread decline in reading -- which is to say, my students seem to read less and less”
My CAS100 teacher once mentioned, our generation is a multiple-choice/scantron generation. That is to say, we excel most if tested in that method. And you know what? I completely agree.
The emphasis on grades, grades, grades, has existed for students since elementary school. I can remember getting report cards back then and being graded on a scale of O for Outstanding, G for Good, S for Satisfactory, and P for Poor and thinking to myself that if I didn’t get an “O” in reading, math, or even art, I wasn’t smart or wasn’t doing well in school. Granted, I was a very big overachiever in grade school and through high school (although it faded as years went on). If I forgot a homework assignment and didn’t have a treasured homework pass, I can remember being so embarrassed for not being a good student and upset about getting a zero.
The importance of grades is made known by parents and teachers. In high school, teachers always said if you didn’t have a very good GPA you wouldn’t get into a good college. Now that we’re in college, we strive for good grades to again have a decent GPA to put on a resume to land a good job once we graduate.
While it may not be the best measure of student performance and achievement, school systems for so long have been based around a letter grade. It serves as a cut and dry grade that can easily be compared to other, relative grades and is widely understood. I think it would be smart to use the idea of a “portfolio” based system to measure achievement instead of grades.
Here at Penn State, I know that a lot of my friends check “rate my professor” and ask around to find out which classes are the “easy A’s.” Earning the A is just as important as learning something new and interesting or enjoying a class. Lots of people that I know also have the feeling that an A is the grade they deserve for just attending class and doing the minimum amount of work necessary.
I don’t agree with Princeton’s new policy of limiting A’s across departments because I think each class varies in difficulty and therefore the distribution of grades should vary accordingly. Teachers should be responsible themselves for giving students the appropriate grade. They can be fair without giving into nagging students and without being limited by the college.
Sam always says, “C’s earn degrees” and while this statement is admittedly correct, I think most Penn State students wouldn’t want to settle for C’s in the majority of their classes. I don’t know whether this is because the higher grade is really important to them or because they think the higher grade is important to employers in the future. In my opinion, the emphasis on grades is all around too large, but I am guilty of being one of the students that looks for the A.
Sorry Sam, Cs Are No Longer Degrees. When it comes to the issue of grades, I’m caught between a rock and a hard place; I can definitely see both sides. Students today have benefitted from the advances of technology and feel they are entitled to a lot of things. Information is easy to access, especially the work of other students, which we are tempted to use as our own. I don’t think students today are more intelligent than those that have come before, but I do believe they have new problems. Some problems persist like family pressure. For example, my family frowns on the idea of me pursuing a Ph.D. in art history with a focus on modern and contemporary art. They completely ignore my natural artistic ability and chose this university and my major premedicine. Deep down I know they want me to have a respectable title and job stability, especially now when the economy could be much better. Our differences have caused me to develop test anxiety and to take numerous classes towards a goal where my heart isn’t completely in. Grades and GPA are the number one thing when it comes to applying to medical school. Without a good GPA, you won’t even get looked at, so Cs won’t do it. If you’re above the cutoff, the interview follows to see if you’re socially inept. Unfortunately, our interest and our personality are often overlooked because of the number of students who now have the opportunity to go to college. Things are so competitive now that a 3.9 is desired for dentistry school. How much do grades really say about us as individuals? I’ve always thought how a person carried themselves and how they interacted with people, such as what they contributed to a conversation, shows who they really are than a piece of paper. I mean communism looked good on paper, but it could never work in the real world. I think that’s why medical schools made the interview their second step. We might have forgotten a lot of the material that A says we know from the class a few years ago. The again, you can’t expect students not to be concerned about their future and stress over grades. In the long run when we have hopefully achieved our employment goal, our grades along the way will no longer matter, but school is our job now. High school grades are obsolete now but I had to get in college in order to feel the way I do now about those grades. I do think people who go out drinking and procrastinate to the last minute have no right to work up fake tears and verbally attack a professor when they get exactly what they deserve. It’s a difficult topic, but even during my college years grades have taken a back seat when bigger issues, such as dealing with family issues (I haven’t spoken to my parents in 2 ½ years). An A+ doesn’t feel as good as a good discussion where I’ve defended my point of view yet gained a new perspective. Such a realization about the true importance of grades will surely come in time. As for the people complaining about curves, one day you might find yourself benefiting from one and getting closer to your own goal. Worry about yourself first and stop writing sentences that are equivalent to actions, such as hiding library books from other students to get ahead. Welcome the competition, and if you truly have the necessary skills, you’ll still be on top.
I think the issue of grades is a very big and important one indeed since it affects not only college students here at Penn State, but all universities around the country. All students come to college to get grades, which means as and definitely nothing less than that. Furthermore, parents themselves also expect that their children also get nothing less than A’s as well, but obviously this is certainly not true. Subsequently, parents get mad at the students, who usually lie and blame it on the professors and say that it was their fault and they were not teaching the material correctly or extensively enough. Most times that not, this is usually false and the professors have given their students adequate material and information to do very well in their course. However, it is the students’ fault most of the times, as they do not put the time and effort into the course of what was actually expected and recommended.
As a result what has been happening these past few years is that the professors have felt the pressure from multiple sources to give out better grades to their students. For some professors this is necessary, as they might not have ten year, and are not certain about the future about their jobs. Consequently, they give into the students’ lies and just give them what they ask for. This is not right in anyway, as other students might be trying harder and getting worse grades. Also what this does is makes the competition small. What I mean by this is that there are more people in the upper percentile of people getting good grades. Students therefore are not very selective and they are just becoming part of a bigger crowd even though some of them might not even deserve to be. When recruiters come in they choose the people that might not be capable in terms of intelligence factor to do their jobs, which is sometimes not very fair. However, one can play devil’s advocate and say that those people who might not be as smart who are getting the job, deserve it since they are the ones that have the other things that allow them to be the best fit but maybe not the smartest for the jobs.
The way that we can solve is definitely by grade deflation, which Princeton has done a great job with. By limiting the amount of good grades given out, it will make students read and work harder and earn the grades that they should really be getting instead of being handed to them. This might not seem fair to all students, but it surely is since it rewards the people who truly work hard for what they deserve.
I am not surprised at all by this rising trend in college students who expect to be given grades of A or B just for doing what is asked of them and submitting average, mediocre work. I couldn’t disagree more with what many of these students said and their views on the topic however.
Grades are not given, they are earned, and I feel that many students forget this fact. While not all subjects are as black and white as math or physics where there is one right answer and you either have it or you don’t and that determines your grade, many classes are much more subjective. I agree with the USA Today article that says students are conditioned in K-12 that they will get A’s and B’s just for doing what is asked, not going above or beyond. An A is given for extraordinary work, but in K-12 nothing is extraordinary. Primary education has no room for creativity or new ways of thinking, it’s a mill that churns out students who will either go on to make their mark on the world in college with research, innovative designs, and great ideas, or they become ditch diggers or equivalent. The equivalent could be a ditch digger with a college bachelor’s degree who does some mindless job in front of a computer all day; the digital ditch digger. (I just coined that term, by the way). College students should be rewarded with A grades for doing exemplary work and nothing less. If a student believes that they should get an A because “they put in their best effort and tried really hard” this is bull shit. If a dumbass puts in their heart and soul in a project and tries really hard, and their work still sucks, they don’t deserve an A. They need to come to terms with the fact that they are simply not smart enough to get an A.
Children are raised and taught that they can do anything they put their mind to. Well this isn’t so. If you are dumb, life is going to be hard, but that’s the fact. If you are naturally talented and gifted and things come easily to you, you will earn A grades and succeed. But the world always needs ditch diggers and the students who feel that they deserve an A for trying hard need to accept the fact that maybe they just don’t have what it takes, no matter how hard they try, and they will always just be mediocre.
I don’t necessarily agree with college setting rules for how many A’s and B’s and C’s are given out, I think they just need to be more realistic and strict in grading. Unless a work is absolutely outstanding, give it a B, and if it just meets the requirements, then it’s a C, no questions asked. Students need to realize that if they want to get A’s, they better be better than everyone else in their class because otherwise their work will simply fall in line with all the other mediocre Joe’s who just meet the requirements.
I actually found it pretty funny when I read the “Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes” article in the “So You Think You Deserve an "A," Do You?” blog probably because my English 015 class discussed this exact article in class one day towards the beginning of this semester. My reaction to the article though actually agrees with some of the claims that the students are making. At the same time, I feel that the professors are doing the best they can, for the most part (not all professors).
It first must be started that coming from high school to a top college or university is always accompanied with major transitions to get used to; mainly the classes. Let’s be real here: most of the kids who went to schools like Penn State or Princeton had no trouble in high school academically. We never had to study for exams, could do what we wanted, and could easily sweet talk a teacher into extending a deadline for an assignment by coming up with some sob story. Well at least that’s how it was for me. Even though it was told to us that college would be the opposite of high school in the academic sense, I really did not pay much attention to those who told me that. Now it was a lot different, I will admit that, but I do feel like the way grades are dealt with in an unfair matter though. There are some classes that I have where I actually do go to every lecture, study sessions and study for days before an exam but still seem to only pull Cs on the exams and then I have to get a C for the class. And people say, “well at least you are putting in all your effort for the work” but honestly that’s not going to get me the job I want in the future. It really is not fair that some of us are busting our asses off for these exams and yet when we look at the questions, it is nothing like the material you studied. I honestly believe that some of these classes are made to be excessively hard so that students will hate the class, drop it and change majors because of the difficulty. I think that there should be some way that the students who are trying should get at least a small amount of help grade wise maybe, especially if they are attending office hours often as well.
At the same time, it is hard to say that the professors have to focus more on the students who are trying their hardest and not passing as opposed to their other students. If they have lectures with over 500 students, it is kind of difficult to remember those 20 or so students who are trying, but can’t seem to get the material. It would probably be unfair in that sense because then they would be forgetting about another group of students in doing so.
Bottom line is that the way students are being graded is just complicated. Everyone knows that the smartest person in the world can be horrible in test taking situations and the fact that most of the criteria being graded comes from exams makes things difficult in general.
Of course I'm going to think this is bull. We've all heard of professors limiting the amount of A's they can give and I think that is completely unfair. I can work as hard or harder as other students but because of the rule that you can't give more than 40% A's, I can't get one. I take Chemistry classes and they're pretty hard for me, I work really hard to earn a C. However, this C is based on my knowledge of the material and not the professor limiting the number of each grade. I would be pissed if I worked as hard as I do and find out I got a lower grade because "they had to cap the amount of A's they give out". I don't feel entitled to getting an A in every class, especially if I didn't work for it. If I earned a B-, then I'd like to see that reflected. I understand that a professor in the article feels if you do everything you ask of them, you should get a C. However, what can students do to earn an A, in his opinion? If I read what I'm supposed to, go to class and take notes, and do all of my assignments, what else can I do? I HATE when professors will intentionally make exams harder or grade harder just to achieve their goal of limiting the amount of A's. It discourages students, I know I get discouraged when I bust my ass for a class to get a C. I do also agree with the fact that if you know your college limits A's, you're less likely to challenge yourself for the fear of getting a D or F in the class because of the how the professor grades. I like to learn about new things, I took a class this semester I thought I'd hate, and I love it, it's even better that I'm also doing really well in it. The reason we have gen eds and other classes pertinent to our major is so that we can learn about various subjects. To tell students you might want to take this class but even if you work hard, you might end up with a C discourages students from pursuing the classes and interests they have. Also, getting into graduate programs, whatever they may be, has become incredibly competitive. Not just the best GPA will get you in anymore, and if that GPA is subpar, good luck trying to find a place that will take you. Stick to being a fair professor and giving the grades deserved based on the amount of work put into the class and don't screw students out of a future.
I don’t believe the system Princeton has implemented in order to limit the number of A’s received by students will encourage students to try any harder. In fact, I believe if that system was implemented here at Penn State, it would discourage me because it makes it seem like no matter how many people excel and deserve A’s, only a certain percentage will receive them because of this rule that has been put in place. By all means, I don’t think everyone deserves an A by merely completing the required work, but I also believe that if people do deserve an A, their chances should not be limited because of a rule that limits the number of A’s a school is allowed to distribute.
Although the idea “C’s earn degrees” has been instilled in the minds of many students throughout the world, many other students refuse to acknowledge this average letter grade as being acceptable to receive. Although it is unfortunate, I don’t think students who require more work to attain a certain grade necessarily deserve a high grade because of the amount of work they put in. Some students are merely smarter, or better at a certain class than others. Just because a students studies for ten hours longer than another student doesn’t mean they deserve a higher grade because of the amount of effort they put into it. A common quote in the educational system is ‘teachers don’t give grades, students earn them.’ I find this applicable in that no matter how long a student studies for, their performance on a test or paper is what will earn them a grade. Therefore, it is unfair for a student to go to a professor and explain how long they worked on an assignment and therefore be given a higher grade for it.
I believe grades are considered to be way too important in our educational system. Students have stopped absorbing material and trying to really learn it; they merely want to memorize it in order to do well on the assignment that goes along with the material, whether it be a test, paper, or presentation. This has led to a large decline in the interest of students in the material they are being presented with in their classes. Students seem to be willing to do whatever it takes to earn a higher letter grade, but are not willing to put in the extra effort merely to attain some extra knowledge on any given subject. This is a downfall of the grading system in that students no longer are focused on really learning the material, but are only worried about how they will perform when they are tested on it.
Grades are obviously one of the most, if not the most, important aspect of a students’ collegiate career. I feel strongly about the effort factor and a grade should reflect one’s true effort put forth, but I believe this only to an extent. I believe even more importantly is the quality of the work. If someone works thirty hours on a paper and it is an average piece of writing, they should not receive as high a grade as someone who wrote their piece in forty-five minutes and produced a damn fine piece of writing. This goes for any project, paper, test, etc. What else is there to determine who is the best at what they’re doing or studying to become? I know it is nice to think that trying your hardest will get your through college, or life for that matter, but when it comes down to it, some people will succeed and some will fail. Don’t get me wrong, I do believe that effort has a tremendous effect on one’s work, thus effect on one’s grades, but effort alone cannot be valid for getting an A. If a doctor tried his/her hardest in school and really attempted to do his/her best, but really wasn’t all that great of a doctor, would you want him/her to be your go to guy/girl when you got sick or injured? Effort is essentially what produces quality work, but this cannot and is not true in all cases. I am sure that many people have tried their hardest to become rock stars, but only the ones that are truly good at their craft have made it (in most cases). I have a rather rash view of grades on the college level. Failing should not even be an option. I realize some people would not try, but when it comes down to it, we as students are here paying for a service, paying quite a bit I might add. If we are the one’s essentially paying these professors to teach us, then how in the hell can we fail and possibly have to pay the amount again to re-take a course? If you are accepted to the college, pay the amount they ask, is it really fair that there is a possibility of failing out? Even if you have tried your absolute hardest? I say no. Another personal opinion of mine regarding grades is the infamous phrase, “C’s get degrees.” This, in my eyes, is one hundred percent the truth. Who the hell really talks about their college GPA when they are 35 or 40? I realize your GPA may determine if you get into grad school and what not, but when it really comes down to it, to graduate from the esteemed Penn State University (not even mentioning all the money invested), you receive a piece of paper with your name on it and a PSU logo. You will have what you need to get a job, even though it may not be exactly what you wanted to be when you grow up. We’ll see how much affect your GPA has after entering the “real world” or work.
This is a topic that I am very interested in. Not only because I am a college student but because it baffles me when students think they can give an average effort and receive an outstanding grade. I used to be one of these people. In high school, I never really studied or did anything more than what was expected for me to do. I handed my work in on time, I paid attention and classes and I got straight A’s. But this is not because I far exceeded expectations. Looking back now, I realize the grade may have not been merited. Coming into college, I had to work so much harder, and not just because the classes were harder, but because I wasn’t used to doing hard work at all. I received my first C ever in a course and didn’t understand where I went wrong. Well, I never actually did anything that deserved an A. I did just what I needed to do, the bare minimum of what I needed to do actually. I learned and now I know better. I just wish there were a way, other than implementing a grade-deflation policy, to tell students what I learned the hard way. I’m not sure I agree with the grade-deflation policy though. Yes, it may make students work harder, but what if every student worked at a grade A level? Not every student would receive that grade that he or she deserved. But I guess an extraordinary result takes extraordinary efforts, just like getting the perfect grade.
On another side of the issue, I am learning that standing out in a group of thousands of graduating students is very difficult to do. And I can understand why people think they deserve an A in a class. I think it’s more that they want the A to make life easier. So they can say that they have the grade to be better than the rest when in reality they aren’t because they may not have worked as hard as someone who even received a B.
But I can’t blame someone for falling into that trap. I did when I first started college courses almost four years ago. Maybe what students need is what was suggested in the article, a course to teach them how to be students again. At Penn State we have to take a first-year seminar. Perhaps the best way to ensure students working hard is to make the seminar about how to be an effective stand out student. Upperclassmen could come in and talk about how to take college courses and effective ways to study. Professors could talk to the students as well and give advice. Students can practice being students.
Grade inflation is definitely an issue in the American education system. While the NY Times article blames the sense of entitlement in a new generation of students, which may very well be a cause at private universities, I don’t see this same sense of entitlement at state schools such as Penn State. Despite this, Sam saw an increase in the number of A’s from 27% to 40% over a period of 19 years. Grades are generally increasing across the board, and the main cause seems to stem from the increasing levels of competition between students over the years. The competition between students for grades and jobs has seemed to heighten over the years, with more emphasis on grades and education for determining how successful you will be in your future. The added pressure on students today also causes them to find ways to maximize their grades, which could also be contributing to the increases in grade averages at Penn State. While the solution to slowing the steady inflation of grades isn’t quite clear, I am certain that a grade-deflation policy, e.g. limiting the number of A’s available to students, is not the answer. This strategy will only be putting more pressure on students to maximize their grades and achieve the A and further heighten the competition.
As a student, it’s obvious that I don’t really want to compete. I’d much rather learn all the material in my classes without all the pressure, and still get the good grades and a degree. It would be great to focus less on the stress of exams and assignments, and more on the learning. Unfortunately, the truth is that this competition is necessary. Without it there would be no reason for students to work hard and really practice the stuff they are learning in their classes, and students would no longer be coming out of school with the knowledge they should have. While I’m right there with everyone else who spoke out against grading systems under the comments, it comes down to the fact that grades are a necessary evil. Without them, there would be no way to filter out the good students from bad, and no efficient way to evaluate the relative success of students. Ranking students based on their grades seems like an unfair way to select people for job hiring, but there isn’t any more comprehensive method to ensure that the best students are hired for the best jobs.
When it all comes down to it, I think the best way to stop grade inflation depends on the school administrators and professors. Designing the courses to challenge the students while not overloading them with work will promote a normal grading curve. Also, diversifying the grading structures for classes reduces the pressure on students to achieve the highest grades on exams. When all else fails, a curve can fix everything.
I agree that students have not actually gotten smarter as time went by. Realistically students grades would be dropping because of all of the new information that is available at a faster pace today. It should be overwhelming for students, and yet more and more of them are getting A's with quite possibly the same or less effort than the generations before them have exerted towards studying and working. Today, I can see that students in high school and college alike are striving to get better grades than their peers; it is like a competition. Most of the time the drive to compete with their classmates comes from their parents pushing their child to succeed in academics and providing incentives for their kid to look forward to with good grades. Many of times the drive comes from within the student themselves though; they desire to be better than their peers and be accepted into better colleges or boast of their higher GPA so they work hard to fill up their resume with distinguished positions in jobs and gain many skills to boast on their resume as well. I do not know where this will to succeed started coming from but I can say that it is good and bad for students. As students plan on overloading themselves with work they miss out on fun and even relaxation, causing many students to be stressed out and overwhelmed. When I was in high school and I was asked by a teacher what I would be doing for Summer I would always reply “working.” Which was true. At times I would work three jobs for the extra money and to boost my resume. My teachers would look disappointed and tell me that I work to hard and that I deserve to give myself a break. Even now though I can't not do anything during a break. I would feel lazy after always being so busy since high school. Now that I am in college though, it has become hard to maintain the A's that I used to receive and I have been very hard on myself over it. I think that if Penn State were to limit the amount of A's that it were to give out then many students who typically receive A's would also be very disappointed in themselves if they were not chosen to get the A so they would strive to work harder in order to be one of the few to receive an A in a class. Others may see this as a reason not to care because if A's are so limited then one may think that it's not even worth it to work so hard for a grade they might not even get. If I were n this situation I would still work hard for what it's worth.
I think the issue over grades is a serious one that should be evaluated. As a student, the argument that effort should be incorporated into the grading system does not fall on deaf ears. It is incredibly annoying to try as hard as you can in a class and only manage a grade like a B- or C. It gets even more annoying when you watch your roommate or friend not put in half the effort you did and then they receive a higher grade. But regardless of how annoying those two instances may be, I strong believe that effort shout not be included in the grading policy or institutions of higher education. I think this notion must have been developed when students were in their K-12 years of education. During this time most students developed very close relationships with their teachers because of the small class sizes, mandatory attendance, and generally more relaxed atmosphere. These relationships allowed teachers to really know who was really trying to get the good grades and who were just trying to get by. Generally speaking the teachers would then reward those students by boosting their grade a few points, like from a B+ to an A-. If you look at the main purpose of K-12 education ( to get into college) then it makes sense reward the students who are really putting in the effort.
But this notion should not continue when students go to college. I believe this for many reasons but the main one is that the role of a college is vastly different than that of K-12. College is about preparing people to live in the “real world” and to learn the skills to work a job. It is irrelevant how much effort an individual student has to put in, the only thing that should matter is results. In the “real world” when you have a job you are being paid to do, your boss wants you to finish your assignments efficiently, effectively, and timely. Most likely he or she could care less whether it took you seven hours or seventeen hours to finish. They don’t care if you stayed up all night working really hard or just cruised through it because your naturally good at it, they only care about results. If you work in a hospital as a surgeon and are performing open- heart surgery, the family of the patient is not going to give a rat’s ass whether or not you “tried really hard” or “did the best you could.” All they care about is whether or not their loved on is alive and has a fully functioning heart. In the real world it is about results, not effort and so I believe that college grades should be based entirely on performance, not how hard you try.
I personally do not believe that students are born smart (including myself). Sometimes, from my experience, I really do think that students who grew up and went to school in a poor city area can really affect the school’s academic reputation and the students’ intelligence. Back in high school, I was always a straight A’s student and participated in many extra academic activities such as Student Council and the National Honor Society. But above all, my school was pretty small and most of the students were very lazy (I mean, very lazy). In my graduating class, there were about 50 female students who were pressured to become pregnant and students dropping out. It was a horrible. Teachers were unorganized and it seemed like the teachers are at school, because they have to go to work.
Sometimes, I feel like I don’t deserve all the A’s back in high school because I really didn’t do anything. I basically just went to school and passed. Different teachers have different criteria’s that students can follow and when I was in high school, it seems to me that they did not have a standard criterion for a student to pass. When I became one of the three students from my high school graduating class who got accepted to this school, I felt like I do not belong here. The students here seems so “experienced” in many subjects, it may me feel like I was a complete failure.
But what I realized this year is that, I should be lucky that I got accepted into this school. People all over the world applies to Penn State University each and everyday and most don’t even get accepted, no matter how smart they have to be. Nobody is perfect. People have flaws and make mistakes. That’s how they learn. If it takes me 6 years to graduate and get an undergraduate degree, I just have to stick to it because I think “the more knowledge I obtain, the better I’ll be”.
Even though based on the teacher’s criteria and the school that I went to for the past four years, I feel like getting A’s do not matter to me. As long as I have experienced it and know that going to school in a city where streets violence always occur is a pretty bad idea.
Since my family came to the United States twenty years and have put my brothers and I in these horrible schools, I do not blame them. I know how it feels when people do not know what is best out there for their children and especially do not know how to speak English. I know there are resources out there but how do you know if you can really rely on them? All I know is that from my experiences, I do not want my children to suffer what I have to suffer back when I was in high school.
By looking at the Microsoft advertisement that changed the black man’s face to a white person utterly shocked me. Seeing this advertisement made me feel as if the ad had some type of racist offense to why they creators felt the need to change the face of only the black man. The response written about the article about why the creators had to change the advertisement were not acceptable for many reasons. One argument that was made is when they said that they need at least one woman and one colored person. With these criteria, there was already a white female there which met two of the criteria’s in one person. Also going through the process of elimination which person first as a business profession the male is looked at as more superior than the female, so why not eliminate the white female and put her as a black male. Also if the advertisement had to be fixed why not change the Asian man; they at least not have to worry about changing his hand color.
Another argument that was made is that they wondered how much color is acceptable to a very white Polish population. My thought to that argument is that since Poland is “very white” they most likely do not see many African Americans, Asians, Hispanics, or any other race in their country. The point to change the ad is to bring familiarity to the people, so why keep the Asian man if he would also not be a familiar face. To stay within a familiar area of what the people know the creators of the ad should have just made everyone white and to add diversity throw in a couple of females.
My honest opinion about the criteria methods and the targeting to people, I feel as if it mostly applies to America because it is majorly diverse as a whole, yet some cities are not. If a town or city is diverse than you should begin to wonder how much color is acceptable to a diverse area. For example Prince Georges County, MD is a majority black county so they could have a “culture inflection” and have an ad directed to black people, where Montgomery County, MD where it is more diverse they should be more considerate of who is in the ad and what is familiar to the people who live in the area. Personally as a black female I am not approving of this ad because it makes me feel as if I am inadequate of being in a business professional or if it is hard to believe that a black man can have a legitimate job. With the creators taking the black man out, brings oppressed feelings as if black people cannot be taken seriously by anyone, and makes us feel as if we are looked down upon. Feeling as if you are looked down upon makes us feel as if we have to go further than an extra mile to be on the same level as other people of different ethnicities.
I think that grades are just ridiculous because in some way grades hurt students a lot. For example, grades can let a student give up on himself is his/her grades are way too low. I think that grades make some students feel stupid and make some feel very smart. I honestly think this is not right since many students are very smart but they just don’t have the capacity to receive good grades all the time. For some students getting an “A” in the class is very difficult even though they might be turning all the work in and trying their hardest. For me school was pretty easy until I got to college. College life is very challenging since you are on your own. You don’t have your high school teachers pushing you to do the work in order to pass the class. I was the student that I would always be receiving the best grades but at the same time I would see my friends struggling with their high school classes. A lot of them would feel very disappointed at themselves since they would be getting pretty low grades. Sometimes I would hear them saying that they felt dumb, that school was not for them, that they just wanted to give up since they were not good in school. They said all that because of their grades, nothing else but their simply stupid grades. When students receive low grades it makes them feel that they are dumb and then that makes the student stop trying even though they can do it but they just give up because grades make them give up. To be honest, I saw many of my friends going out to work instead of continuing with their education. At times I feel bad since they thought they couldn’t do it just of their low grades. I had a lot of faith in many of them, at times I would even try to help them just so they would keep trying and trying. I honestly believe that if grades would not exist everything would be better since students would keep trying. Or maybe if there was just another way of grading that would help too, because sometimes is just the grading is way too harsh and that makes it extremely hard to achieve a good grade, especially for those students who struggle a lot in receiving good grades. If grades are to exist then I believe there should be some way to help those students who just don’t get those good grades but are smart and who can do it. There should be some kind of good opportunities for every student out there because grades are just hurting students by making them think they are dumb and that they do not have the capacity to continue with their education.
I am a firm believer in the idea that you earn the grade that you deserve. I do not believe that anyone is born “ smart” or born “ dumb”, but I do believe that certain people are already blessed with the gift of being more intelligent than others at an early age, making it easier for them to succeed in school. I wouldn’t exactly call those people “ more intelligent”, I’d just say that it is easier and takes less time for those people to learn something new, or for it to stick in their heads more than others. There have always been the people who skim through the notes and end up getting an A. And then there are the people who study and review hard, but it just doesn’t stick and end up with a C. Also, there’s the people who are actually smart and know the material, but they just have an extra hard time taking tests and think too much into the questions. No matter what kind of a person you categorize yourself in school or learning wise, earning an A IS indeed achievable. It is just a matter of applying yourself. I believe that the professor of a certain class plays a huge factor in the case of whether achieving an A is more or less difficult. Since college is so competitive, it is definitely harder to get an A. Just completing the required amount of work will not do if you want to earn an A. In order to achieve an A, I believe that you have to first have an understanding of what your professor is like and the goals he/she would like you to achieve. You have to feel out a professor and the way he grades before you really know how to apply yourself to the material. As well as your expected goals given by your professor, I believe you must also set goals for yourself in that certain class of what you want to get out of the class, the time you expect to put into the class, and how you apply yourself to the material. Also, whether you are interested in the material you are learning or not is also going to be a factor in your grade. The more a certain subject interests you, the more you are going to want to apply yourself to the material and not dread learning information you are not interested in.
I very much think that a grading system in necessary but I think that if you put forth the effort and know the material, completing all work in which the professor desires you to complete, you deserve an A. Every student is different. Every student learns a different way, takes more or less time than others to learn material, takes a test a different way, and scores a different grade. I do understand the reason of why professors set goals so high is so that even A students have to work extra hard. Every student cannot earn an A in the class and that is fair. I believe that it is just unfair to students who have a harder time learning or memorizing because they are the ones who suffer. Because every student is different in different aspects, I do not believe there is a meeting point or negotiable way for the grading system to be fair to all kinds of students. I don’t believe that is it possible for the grading system to accommodate all different levels of learners.
As a future teacher, I find the topic of grading policies and resulting disputes very interesting. Although a C grade is considered "average", that is no longer reflected in today's society. From an early age, students are convinced into thinking that they all need, and can obtain, straight A's. However, the reality is that it is not possible. As much as all teachers want their students to do well, and regardless of how much students want to get that coveted A, the reason that a variety of grades exists is because everyone is different and their abilities cover a wide span. This is why I disagree with many students perception that if they are trying hard in a class they deserve an A. In my opinion needing an A is overrated. However, that is not to say that I myself don't try to get them. I have always done well in school so I never really stress about my grades. I do my best and if that results in an A that's great, but if it doesn't I don't beat myself up because I just try my best and that's all I can ask of myself. The most prominent reasoning behind why I actually care about grades is that I have to, it's as simple as that. In today's society grades are put on a pedestal as the key to success. Better grades means acceptance to better schools which means better job opportunities and eventually a successful career. People have become so obsessed with getting an A, because they associate that grade with being the best. What people continuously fail to realize is that getting an A is not possible for everyone to achieve which is why they constantly argue when they get a grade that they believe is lower than they deserve. The more attention that is given to grades, such as the creation of grade-deflation policies, the more students will feel the pressure to get the limited number of A's. I feel as though there has to be a better solution to curb excessive amounts of A grades, but it has to be logical as opposed to giving a percentage of each grade that is available. In doing this, a grade is made to look like something that is given as opposed to the reality which is that a grade is something that must be earned. Most college professors clearly layout their grading system from day one in their syllabus in an attempt to prevent as many issues with final grades as possible. In most cases a certain point range corresponds with a grade so wherever a student's final accumulation of points falls, that is the grade that s/he will receive however, there will always be students who are unhappy with their results. It's time for students to wake up and realize that grades aren't everything. Learning is what's important as it is the information and not the grade that is necessary and useful later on.
Kathryn Paras
I would like to respond to the student response in this article “that they have never gotten a grade as low as this before” by emphasizing that the grading standards in college are significantly higher than those in high school. Therefore, the student must meet these new standards instead of believing that a Professor should bring the grading scales down to their level. After all, the main purpose of getting a secondary education is to grow in ones academic abilities and to fine tune the skills that they already possess. Such growth involves talking to the professor about a paper and figuring out what they did wrong and how they can improve, instead of complaining.
In this article, Ms. Kinn says “I feel that if I do all of the readings and attend class regularly that I should be able to achieve a grade of at least a B.” Kinn’s case for getting a B suggests that doing the bare minimum should be good enough, but no employer in today’s cut throat job market wants an employee who does just enough work to get by. Also, perfect attendance and literacy may have earned her a blue ribbon in the second grade, but it certainly will not in college. According to Ms. Kinn’s theory on rewards, the CEO of company should earn a good salary for simply attending business meetings, and reading the company’s reports. Kinn has one thing right in that she should do all of the readings and attend class regularly because doing so will help her better understand the course concepts. However, completing ground work goes without saying and should not earn her a good grade.
The idea that hard work often does not equate success upsets student’s like Greenwood who “think putting in a lot of effort should merit a high grade,” and “What else is there really than the effort that you put in?” Many students believe that if they work hard then they should get a high grade, but hard work frequently does not achieve success in the world after college. For example, advertising executives devote hundreds of hours and brain cells over months for Super bowl ads and yet many commercials fail to increase sales. Lawyers may pick the perfect jury and have figured out every legal loop hole, but still lose the case. However, hard work is a trait that every employer will find valuable because success almost always does not come without hard work.
Professor Brower’s opinion that students must “read for knowledge and write with the goal of exploring ideas” should be held by students of every age. Grades certainly hold merit in the world of academia, but in reality, the grade a person got in Economics becomes irrelevant after college while the skills they acquired such as reading a Supply/Demand curve, or knowing the difference between substitutes or complement goods become vitally important. In the end, the college grad that used four years to challenge their beliefs and acquire great critical thinking skills will be much valuable in whatever they do versus the grad that only learned to get a letter grade.
I see eye to eye with many of the professors that were interviewed in the article from The New York Times. I completely agree that effort is not necessarily directly related to grades. Quality of work can’t be measured solely by the amount of time spent on any task. For example, the student that studies the most time for an exam is not necessarily the one that receives the best grade. As a student you have to find the most effective way to study or do any type of homework. Understanding how to apply certain concepts to other scenarios is probably better than remembering text book definitions because with the former you have a true understanding of the material and don’t have to re-read the text over and over, pounding your brain with things you’ll only remember in the short-term. All of this aside, the point is I can see how some professors get annoyed by students who simply complain and state that they’re doing everything they ask and putting in the time, but still aren’t getting results. They should be bright enough to realize maybe they aren’t studying in the most effective way to earn a good grade.
I believe the importance of grades in college for landing good internships and/or a job right upon graduation is the cause for most of the frustration for students with grading. People are expected to go to college in order to “be successful” in this generation probably more so than previous ones and this increases competition for students in many ways. I realize that in the long run, grades probably aren’t as important as many students think. I personally value many more things in my life than what grades I earn, and I’d hope others do too. But at the same time, it’s hard not to be frustrated about grades when you know your GPA will probably play a crucial role in getting that first job after college. I personally hate the generally accepted idea amongst professors for several classes that the average class grade should be a 70%. Aside the fact that this desired average does not make sense (a logical desired average should be about an 80%, a 79.5% exactly, since this is the average of 100 and 59, which is the range of potential grades that separate an A, the highest possible, from an F, the lowest possible grade, it’s not fair for a student to earn a relatively low grade if he has learned the material very well, just not as well compared to others in the class… in other words, it could be that the class is naturally simplistic and the majority of the population succeeds in it. In addition, students could possibly be more stressed now as a result of the recent economy; they may feel more pressured fighting for fewer positions. Eventually your GPA shouldn’t be very relevant on your resume when applying for jobs after having years of experience in the field. And of course, you can’t forget what Dr. Richards stresses every day in class…we are all going to die some day.
This article particularly sparked my interest because it is a situation that I have seen my peers go through and similar experiences like this have happened to me as well. There are numerous accounts of students going up to their professors at the end of the semester and pleading for a better grade because of the effort they put in to the class. In my opinion, it depends on how you look at the situation. For example, if the professor sees that the student is working to the best of his or her capabilities I feel that is alright to maybe give a couple of extra points to the final grade. For instance, if the student’s grade is a B+ it can be raised to an A- or if the grade is a B- it can be raised to a B, and so on and so forth. What I do not agree on is if the student has earned a C in the class, their grade does not deserve to get boosted up to an A, even if they are putting in an honest effort. If the student is studying, doing everything they are suppose to such as the readings and they are getting C’s on the exams, the information obviously is not sinking in somewhere and they are not comprehending it correctly. The same thing goes for projects and papers; if the student has trouble writing and they are going in for help, whether it is with a writing coach, the professor, or whoever, and they are putting in their greatest effort, then I feel that the professor should be lenient and help the student out by giving them a couple extra points. Again, if the student’s work on the paper or project is C or D quality, they should not be receiving an A. Some students may agree with my opinion, while many others completely disagree. Those who disagree with me feel that if they try their best and do everything that they are supposed to that they should automatically receive an A. I feel that if you do not comprehend the information good enough to do well on the exams and you are just given an A, then you are not really learning.
In the article it says that some schools limit the amount of A’s students can receive in certain classes. I do not feel that this is right at all because if 95 percent of the students in the class put their honest effort forth and they earn A’s in the class, why should some of them be penalized for it because of the quota that is held for the amount of students that can receive an A?
In today world the meaning of learning is changing. Because of our competitive workforce and or demanding need for innovation in certain area today society has placed a great deal of emphasis on getting an education. In doing so it deterred our generation from the real importance of an education making and even. The pressure of society is causing students to excessively focus on wanting good grade and making them forget about the hard work that has to be done to obtain these grades. I understand that grades are important to a certain extent in college and professional school, but I feel that student of this generation have lost the concepts, values and importance's of having an education. The education that we gain from universities and college are supposed to be used to better understand ourselves and help us develop interest in our field of study. An education is suppose be a tool that help us build gaps in the world and help construct a better are surrounding. Many student no longer come to school to learn. They come to school to get grades to make themselves feel better about their selves and to gain a false image.
I think what Princeton University is doing with their grading scale is crazy!!!!! To me changing a whole grading scale to comfort student expectation is sending a message that now in this day era you can actually do less and prove to use that your a great student. I believe that these curve are not beneficial because they are rewarding student for work and knowledge that didn't uptake or work for
When it comes to academics, one of the worst policies I can think of is grade deflation. It makes absolutely no sense to me to take a grade that a student has rightfully earned and lower it. So if a student receives a 90 percent as their grade, indicating that they “know” 90 percent of the material that they have been tested on, why should they receive a lower grade? This deflation does not correctly depict the student’s mastery of the subject matter. If every student in a class gets an “A,” then the instructor or professor is doing their job. A high school teacher of mine once said, “If someone doesn’t get a perfect, (on a test) then I didn’t teach it perfectly. I think that this is an excellent philosophy for teachers everywhere to abide by. The better the grades of the students, the better job the teacher is doing (as long as they are covering the same material).
Grade Deflation is just one factor that can add to the stress of college on students because of the stress that is placed on earning good grades. I feel that so much emphasis is placed on getting good grades and not on creativity or enjoyment of the subject matter. I have taken many classes where the only criteria that final grades are based on is exams. I find that a class that incorporates multiple different tests of subject mastery is the most engaging. In addition to exams, projects, papers, and activities can show the mastery of a subject. These different methods may also help students learn material much more thoroughly than any lecture. Being a chemical engineering major, I never see anything more than homework’s and exams to test my knowledge of the class. Perhaps if they incorporated other methods of teaching, I would be able to learn the subject matter better.
My last gripe with the grading system at Penn State is the formatting of the exams themselves. Most exams are all multiple choice which require the student to completely know the information needed to solve the question. If they do not completely understand the concept, then they must guess, and either receive full credit or nothing. This method does not accurately depict a student’s knowledge of the subject, because they may know part of the concept yet still receive nothing for it. If that isn’t enough, Penn State exams tend to be deceptive, using tricky wording and answer choices to trip students up and often resulting in the student getting the questions incorrect. Exams should test your knowledge of subject matter, not tricks and deceptive wording. A lot of stress and grief could be prevented by making these changes.
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