I'm reluctant to say much about this for fear of being labeled a crusty old relic who is out of touch with the demands of the new global marketplace and the difficulties of landing a job or a position in some post graduate program. However, as we enter the final weeks of this academic year, I suppose now is as good of a time as any to push the issue, even if it doesn't have much to do with race and ethnicity.
I do want to say that it's a relief that some people are starting to seriously explore this issue of grades and entitlement. Here at Penn State I've watched the total number of "A" grades jump from 27 percent when I started teaching in 1990 to over 40 percent today. I'm reasonably certain that students have not gotten THAT much smarter, although I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong.
This issue doesn't stop here at Penn State but rather appears to be a nationwide phenomenon -- and one that is most visible at more expensive private schools. And from within my own anecdotal experience, grade inflation has occurred at the same time as we see a widespread decline in reading -- which is to say, my students seem to read less and less.
Just read the article. I'm sure you'll have much to say: "Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes"
I want to add that many schools have pursued policies of "grade deflation," in which they have tried to actually limit the overall number of A grades. Check this out from USA Today:
Since Princeton took the lead among Ivy League schools to formally adopt a grade-deflation policy three years ago — limiting A's to an average 35% across departments — students say the pressure to score the scarcer A has intensified. Students say they now eye competitive classmates warily and shy away from classes perceived as difficult.
"It used to be that you'd let someone copy your notes if they were sick," says Mickel, 21, of Monroe, La. "Now, if someone misses classes, you'd probably still let them, but you're also thinking: 'Gee, you might get the A while I don't.'"
There is no quota in individual courses, despite what students think, says Dean of the College Nancy Malkiel. Still, the policy has made an A slightly more elusive. In the first two years, A's, (A-plus, A, A-minus), accounted for 41% of undergrad grades, down from 47% the two previous years.
Though a typical Princeton overachiever might blanch at the mere mention of a B, the university is sticking by its policy, Malkiel says. Students' employment and graduate school placements actually have improved the past two years, she says.
Perhaps we'll start doing this at Penn State.
252 comments:
1 – 200 of 252 Newer› Newest»I got through high school pretty easily. I was the overachiever, the straight-A student, academic and athletic letterman. Involved in six clubs, an officer in one, and a two-sport captain. My entire family is involved in education and it has always been made clear to me that school comes first. Even though I was so busy, I did put a lot into my grades, and it showed. The toughest of my high school teachers would say, “this course is going to prepare you for college and the way professors are going to teach you.” However, I still never expected college to be this challenging.
No, I do not think I “deserve” certain grades without the effort, but I am used to getting As. So when I work my absolute hardest only to get a B-, I start to get frustrated. I know that I should not be able to talk my way into our out of a grade, but I will still go to my teachers and explain to them why I do not understand something and show that I am trying and looking for extra help. This, I believe, should have at least some affect on a grade.
Also, I was excited for college, as many students I know, because of the chance to broaden my horizons, learn life lessons, and be able to focus on understanding a major that I am truly interested in. So what happens when a required minimum GPA is set for my major? I go from being the carefree student who is ready to learn about the world and go out into it with my new found knowledge, to the overly stressed student hovered over books and calling my parents almost in tears because I do not know what else to do to get that 3.3 GPA. I thought it would be reasonable, a B+ or above for a lifelong straight-A student? I could do that easily, so I thought.
Students should work hard for their grades, but sometimes the written exam grades might not reflect that. Still, no one should be automatically “entitled” to a grade. Students should do the work, go to class, and learn in their own way. No, I am not positive on how to give a grade on an individual’s own understanding of a subject in a school of 42,000 students, but a way should be found. I know there are courses I have been in where I can talk forever about a subject from the class, and have the information right, but my tests do not reflect this. We have been brought through a school system that focused on standardized testing, and this mainly determined our futures (which I do not agree with). So, in my opinion, the article is right about students looking for a magical theorem to get those good grades.
While I understand that grades are a part of school from the time that we are young, I honestly think that grades are ridiculous. While I am not proposing that we eliminate a grading system, I think that something different needs to be done to evaluate students. Too much pressure is placed on grades, grades, grades. I don’t think I have ever been given a paper, project or homework assignment where my teacher said to me “This is due in a week, have fun with it be creative”, without the mention of a grade. A sentence like the one above always sounds more like this “ok class, so we have a project due next week (GRRRRROOOOAAAANNNN from every kid in class) now here are the guidelines. If YOU want to get an ‘A’ you must do x, y and z… If u want a ‘B’ you must do x, y, and z….etc…. Oh and have fun with this”…..um yea so if I’m a kid in that class the only thought going through my head right now is “CRAP, I have an English paper, science test, math quiz, group project for that stupid elective course, a re-edit for my soc paper, I have to baby sit those brats next door….and I now I HAVE to get an A on this project” Not once does the word FUN pop into my mind! Why? First of all, projects are generally NOT fun. Secondly, I am nervous that I HAVE to get an ‘A’ (maybe I’m a perfectionist, an overachiever, or a kid on the cusp of a B or an C and if I can pull off an ‘A’ I get to stay on the Honor Roll, stay on my softball team and not get grounded by my parents). Thirdly, it always sounds…mean…when a teacher goes through the assignment, scares the shit out of you with due dates, the terrible partner you have unknowingly been assigned, and the fact that if YOU want to succeed and if YOU want to make your parents proud, and if YOU want to someday work as a CEO of some major corporation ( um yea…cause my future career rests on THIS grade) YOU MUST GET AN ‘A’ ON THIS ASSIGNMENT ….then the teacher kindly pauses to see ( and enjoy) the terrified looks on the students faces and continues “but its up to you and if you want to slack off, take it easy, watch the football game, have your friends over, aim for the lowest standards possible then by all mean DO THAT, I’m not going to stop you.” Ah yes, the infamous, guilt trip. Now here is what happens, the students who ACTAULLY give a crap are on the verge of tears, run home, cry a little, vent to their friends about what a bitch their teacher is and then with several cups of coffee in them, begin to work on everything they have to do, putting in hours of work and taking great pride in their accomplishments. Then there are the other kids, the ones that no matter how much you threaten, or punish just don’t really give a F***. These kids are the kids that start the project the night before, and hand it in on loose leaf when the rubric clearly states that the project must be on poster board, in color, and typed. And what happens next, well in a perfect world, the student that slaved over the project gets not only an ‘A’ but a personalized accolade from the teacher. But what often happens, somehow the perfectionist ends up with a C+ , a ‘B’ even that glorious ‘A’ and what did the “I don’t give a shit” kid get…..a C. HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN? Maybe the teacher is blind? Whatever the reason, the better student feels diminished because they put everything into their work and the other kid scribbled the answers the morning of class and ends up with maybe only One letter grade difference. Effort should be taken into consideration when grading. Education is about learning and loving what you learn, not studying to get an ‘A’ and then forgetting everything you learned. The more a student enjoys what they are doing, and the less pressure there is the better and more efficiently the student will learn. There is always the argument that, emphasis needs to be put on grades to push the slackers, well um….yea…..THEY ARE CALLED SALCKERS FOR A REASON!! So by putting so much pressure on a letter grade the good students suffer.
First of all, limiting the amount of A’s that can be received by students at Princeton through their recent grade deflation policy is a poor decision on behalf of the administers and education policy makers there, in my opinion. When they limit the A’s to an average 35 % across departments, they are sending the message that only X many students can achieve the peak grade in this class, and that they won’t allow any more to excel to reach an A. In that way, they are no doubt setting the standard that only X many students should be expected to get an A.
Now, teachers have been arguing since the beginning of time that they do not GIVE grades, but that students earn them. I’ve heard it throughout my academic career and I most certainly do agree with it. Doesn’t this new policy again defeat that very point, because they are limiting what they are “giving”? If students indeed have every right to earn their grade, like a wage, can education policymakers really decide they are limiting the amount of A’s being “earned”?
Does this not demoralize students who are giving the best effort they can, yet knowing the policy makers at their university believe only a rough third of them truly deserve it? The Dean of the College, Nancy Malkiel, said the students’ employment and graduate school placements have improved over the past two years. I’d like an operational definition of “improved”, by how much I wonder, and at what cost? If students are studying for the A, mostly because teachers are teaching to the test, who is to say what valuable information they are both missing out on in this process. Some of the best concepts I’ve ever learned have not had an exclusive answer stating “the right thing to do” or “this is the logical answer to solving your problem, pick me” on a multiple choice exam. This could lead me into the whole other argument of whether standardized tests actually measure intelligence or not.
Actually, I think this new policy will really discourage students, as if many of us do not get discouraged enough. There is such a blurred line between all of our efforts and where it is actually getting us. Follow me for a moment. We do homework in high school, to cement facts into our brains, to get a decent grade, to get into a college, to get a degree, to get a job, to get a paycheck , to exchange for money to FINALLY buy food and shelter and support a family. So much of what we earn for our studying is so far away from any goals we once had, we forget what the point is.
So when we should actually be learning to become knowledgeable and share that with other people, we end up memorizing facts and concepts to earn an A.
While changing the grading system at the moment would be a near impossible task, I think there should be set criteria that 100% of students can meet, not 35%. Not every classroom needs that bell-curve where only a pinch of students are getting the A’s and the F’s, and most get the C’s. Since when have teachers and professors wanted us to only aim for average, and let alone EXPECT it from us?
I’ve always feel kind of strange when professors say things like “the class average was an 85%; we’d like it to be a little lower”. The paradox between not just handing out A’s and making them attainable is one that I can see from both perspectives. However, as a student, I find that some classes seem to make it extremely difficult to achieve an A or a B. The chemistry classes in which I have enrolled at Penn State, for example, seem to be very difficult. For our last exam, the class average was a 64%. I have a hard time understanding the philosophy of making a class difficult, having students get poor grades throughout the semester, and then curving the class at the end. In previous semesters, I contemplated dropping a class because I calculated my grade to be a C-, only to find that I didn’t receive a C- at the end of the semester, but a B. We were never told that a curve would be put onto our grades, and I’m sure some students actually went through with late dropping this class. This is unfair to us as students. We deserve to know if our grades are going to be changed. I kind of think that this system sort of plays a sick joke on students throughout the entirety of the semester.
Also, as a student who plans to attend medical school, I find it unfair that some departments would put a quota on the number of A’s that can be achieved. To be considered as a candidate for most medical schools, students typically need a science GPA of 3.67 or above. With quotas in place, a person can do nearly the same amount of work as a fellow student, but may receive a B+ or a B. With these small differences in grades or amount of time or work put into classes, I may not get into a medical school that a student very similar to me may get become admitted to.
I can understand that professors and departments don’t want classes to be too easy. If every student got an A, it would indicate that the class was not challenging. It seems like there should be some medium, somewhere to meet in the middle in this issue, a way to measure whether or not a class challenges students. Students should have plenty of opportunities to gain points in classes through a variety of assignments. If a student is a poor test taker, they should still be granted the opportunity to get a good grade, in some other way. The departments in charge of the science classes that I have taken at Penn State seem to understand this philosophy.
I think grades for the most part matter to every student. In reality, that is why we are here to not only learn, but to put ourselves on the right path for our future. It is common knowledge that people with college degrees and students who do better in school in a lot of cases have a easier time finding a job. Therefore, the whole dilemma with students expecting or wanting higher grades is almost forced upon us. As students we are told to work hard in order to do well. So, when we do work hard and get only average or low grades it can be very frustrating. It is more then just the grade. In all areas of life when a person work hard it is frustrating when it gets him or her nowhere. It feels like a waste of time and energy. I agree with what Mr. Greewood had to say about effort in the article He said “If someone goes to every class and reads every chapter in the book and does everything the teacher asks of them and more, then they should be getting an A like their effort deserves. If your maximum effort can only be average in a teacher’s mind, then something is wrong.” This is so true one can only try as hard as they possibly can and follow the guidelines that are given. If this is not enough then everything just seems impossible. Grades should symbolize effort as well as understanding. Not just how close to perfection things can be. There are so many cases where a student can make a simple mistake after hours of studying and get a pretty low grade. Then on the other hand there is the student who does the assignment the night before or hardly studies but still gets the perfect grade. In reality, who really is more deserving.?
I do think that grades are a complicated and over emphasized system. There is so much pressure behind them from parents and schools, which is why they are seen as so important. No one would care as much if society and school did not make it out to be such a big deal. Also, the idea behind limiting the percent of As by Princeton is ridiculous. It is like they do not want us to do well. My CAS 100 teacher was even saying that so many students got As on the exam so they would have to make it harder for next year. It seems like they do not even want us to do well. We work hard and get the good grades and then they punish us. Well that is just messed up. Therefore, I think the grading system and pressure behind it is they way it is for students because society makes it that way.
In elementary school we were given two grades per subject: one for achievement, and one for effort. As far as my mother was concerned, it did not matter what I got in achievement, all that mattered was my effort grade. As long as she saw “E+” in those little boxes (Exceeds Expectations), she was proud of me. When I reached middle school there was a more conventional percentage grading system, but as long as there was no coinciding comment of “Does not complete work,” or “Is a disruptive influence,” I was in the clear. Granted that I was a huge dork, and grades 3-12 was like an excruciatingly over extended awkward phase, my teachers in high school were fairly final in terms of grades. I think I was also raised in an environment where we were taught that we reap what we sow, I never felt like I had the right to ask for extra credit if I did not do well on a test. A test/quiz/exam is mean to test your knowledge, and just because you’ve studied for hours doesn’t mean that you know the material, and that’s tough cookies. Sometimes your best just isn’t enough, and that bites, but so does life.
I do however think that the whole “curving grades down” thing is bullshit. Pardon my language, but it’s true. Like I said, we’re being tested on our knowledge, and if I know the answers, you shouldn’t be able to take that away. Maybe a lot of people in a certain class got A’s because the teacher effectively relayed the information (god forbid). And as for Princeton and their 35% policy, I definitely resent that. A sense of camaraderie in the classroom is important, I’m not talking about cheating, but college is supposed to a place that fosters education, and helps people network. How are students supposed to feel comfortable when they are competing so fiercely? Half the reason that Ivy League institutions are so sought after is because their student bodies are supposed to be comprised of the best of the best, those kids who are accepted there have huge advantages because they network with their extensive collection of distinguished alumni and they are considered to be the leaders of our generation. They can’t take full advantage of that if they are reluctant to even study together for fear of retributions factored into their GPAs.
Bottom line: yes, today’s youth feel a sense of entitlement. We want maximum results from minimal efforts and we have stored a huge arsenal of excuses and sweet talk to achieve that. However, curving to make sure that people who worked hard remain in the realm of mediocrity isn’t right either.
First of all I think having a grading system is what the problem is. Everyone focuses too much on grades. Parents focus on their children’s grades as well as colleges. Grades are even a standard to get into a certain major or club. Grades can be everything but when it comes down to it they really mean nothing, so why does everyone make such a big deal?
Grades are almost useless because they are up to so much interpretation. Students may feel they deserve a different grade based on what the professor thinks. However, some professor’s grade completely different than others. What kind of work deserves an A in comparison with a B? This can cause confusion as to how much effort should one put forth? And how much effort is too much? I think some professors are sometimes out of line with certain assignments and the amount of work they give.
Another discrepancy is related to accuracy. Accuracy is usually one of the elements based on receiving a certain grade. Another element could be content. Some say that effort of the student is taken into account. I think effort is important. However how does one go about measuring effort? Some students try really hard and put a lot into what they are doing but still they get a low grade, where as a highly intelligent student may put no effort into their work and receive an A.
When there is serious learning involved there has to be a serious interest. Students should not be forced to take classes that are of no interest or at least don’t really have much to do with their major. This just makes the teachers and students mad. The teachers end up wasting their time pushing information onto students who don’t care. If some classes that were really not important to take for your major were cut out then the more important classes could expect better work from students.
I’m not sure what the solution to this problem is. Princeton’s approach to allow only 35% of the student population to receive A’s seems ridiculous. What if more than 35% of students actually deserved an A. Whose to say the teacher’s definition of an A is more accurate than the students? There should be a standard way of grading across classes. If grades are going to matter so much there should be a more accurate and fair way of assigning them. For example, maybe all assignments should just be a pass or fail. If a student does extraordinary work the teacher should tell them to keep it up and encourage them. This might encourage students to think of classes in terms of learning instead of in terms of completing a class to get the grade.
In high school I did not work too hard for my grades but I still worked for them more than some other people did which is why I was usually a straight A student. In college, I admit that I must work a lot harder for an A than I used to have to work a few years ago. However, I do feel like my effort should be considered if I had a dilemma with a grade. I mean I do not expect my grades to jump from a C to a solid B but I would at least want some advice as to why I am not doing so well or what I am doing so wrong. The teacher in the article that just gives you a C if you meet the requirements is being a little extreme and probably wants to be known as “that hard teacher.” I think that a lot of teachers, especially professors in college, want to be really hard and even feared a little. They probably want students to be afraid to take their class because they know how hard it is. Rarely do they want to be known as the professors whose class is an easy A. So what is the logic behind that? I believe it is the teachers’ ego coming to light not true education or anything, but competitiveness and ego bashing. Just like students may compete with each other over dumb things like who has the best car or something, I feel teachers compete about who has the hardest class or who is the most “No Nonsense Teacher.” It seems like the nice teachers or ones who classes are easy A’s are seen as weak or not doing their job right and that is not always the case. I think the test should reflect the material that was learned. If the material was hard then the test will be hard. However, the test should not be hard because it has a whole bunch of questions that are worded confusing on purpose or because it is on material that was not covered (like some teachers love to do). It should be hard just because the information was hard to understand from the start. The questions on the test do not have to be super easy or anything but I think they should simply be straightforward. Now, if the material is easy then why should the test be hard? Seriously, a lot of teachers know the material they are teaching is fairly easy to understand and grasp so they purposely make the questions confusing or ask questions about random material that was barely covered at all. I think that is teacher competitiveness. When teachers of easier classes purposely make their test hard it is not to help the students it is to help decrease the chance of them being known as the “Easy A Teacher.”
I think it’s harder for certain classes, like English classes, in terms of giving out grades, when grades are up to the professor to give. In more science based classes, you take a test, and whatever you get on a test is what you get- it is not up in the air. For English classes and other classes where there are a lot of papers, the teacher gets to decide which papers get an A, B, C, etc. Because this is so subjective, that is where the lines start to become a bit fainter. I agree with the student from Princeton; limiting the allotment of higher grades could make classes a lot more cut-throat, and not in a good way. I could foresee a lot more incidences of cheating- people willing to do anything and take more chances to get a better grade, since now their efforts may not be good enough.
A problem I see when it comes to allotting grades based on the class average is that some people put more effort into their classes than others. If someone is trying really hard in a class and works to get their A or A minus, and another student can just BS their way into a higher A, why should the former student be punished? Professors who set minimum points for a grade are more likely to give students the grade they have earned; it’s up to the students to make enough points for a certain grade. Many English and Public Speaking classes, at least the ones I have taken here at college, have requirements that a project needs to meet in order to get at least a decent grade, so less is up to the Professor. In the end this leads to fewer arguments about grades, and it is less arbitrary.
Another problem comes from the fact that it has become a lot more competitive in terms of getting good grades in school. 20 years ago it was easier to get into college with a lower GPA than it is today. When applying to colleges, whether it’s Undergraduate or Graduate programs, the people with the best grades are going to be accepted. These schools also have no idea whether the classes these students took were based on “half the class will get below a C, half will get above” or whether anyone could get an A. This puts the former students at a disadvantage. Giving out a lot of A’s doesn’t mean the class is any easier; it could be possible the students are putting in more of an effort than previous semesters. And until all schools can come to an agreement about how to do that, I actually think the current way of doing things is working out just fine.
I agree that grade inflation is a problem in the United States. It seems as if people do the absolute minimum they can to get the A, and it doesn’t seem like enough to actually learn anything. In my experience throughout both high school and college, people care way more about the grade they receive than how much knowledge they actually attain. I think it is really sad that the actual learning part of school has kind of gone out the window. I am not sure if this is a recent phenomenon or if this is something of the last few decades. As Sam said, Penn State now gives out 40 percent A’s, whereas in 1999 this was 27 percent.
I think a large reason for why universities are giving out more A’s is because of all the money student’s families are forking out for them to go to school. This is especially true for private schools. It is expected that these students receive high grades in their universities so that they may land the best jobs and positions in graduate schools.
In high school I can remember many people taking the easy classes so they could have higher GPAs and end up in the top 10. I remember I was 9th in my class and had taken every AP class offered at my school, compared to 6 people ranking above me that had never taken one AP class. I know at many schools AP classes might be given more weight than regularly offered classes and this might be a good way to address the problem, but my school and many others do not do this. It makes it very easy to understand why students will take easier classes to earn the A. Luckily, most colleges recognize if you have taken harder classes in high school and take this into consideration.
At the college level I think it might be a little harder to differentiate. Considering that each university is different in course offerings and content covered in classes, it might be very difficult for classes and employers to really differentiate those students that took the most challenging curriculum they could and those who took the easy way out to ensure an A. It is interesting because those who challenged themselves are much more likely to be better thinkers and problem solvers, and maybe to have even picked up a thing or two in college, but may be less likely to be hired or accepted to a graduate program because they have a few more B’s on their transcript. I am not sure what can really be done to address this problem in the United States, but in my opinion, we are teaching our students to jump through hoops and excel at mediocrity rather than foster a love of learning.
During my freshmen year, I was definitely affected by the sense of entitlement. In high school, the work came easy for me, I had perfect attendance, and my grades were always up. I did not make a smooth transition to preparing for college exams, and my marks showed it. However, I always felt that since I went to every class, I should get good grades. I lured myself into thinking I was a better student than those who skipped on a regular basis and my attendance should earn me points. In the article, Professor Brower makes a comment about grades taking a backseat in the minds of students if they develop genuine interests in their majors and supporting classes. I could not disagree more with this sentiment. I am a biology major and that had been my plan since tenth grade. When I first had the class in high school, I immediately fell in love with the material. I found myself doing additional reading outside of the required assignments just to learn more. They say that most students in college either consider changing or actually change majors a few times. For my first semester, I scheduled classes around a biology major and I have not diverged from that path since. I would say that I am genuinely interested in my field, but my GPA is pretty low and this weighs heavily in my mind. This is because we live in a world where people with better grades get accepted into better programs and get better job offers. Did I get rejected for three internships for this upcoming summer because I do not like my major? No, it is because students with higher GPAs are academically more qualified than me. However, if the pressure of grades was removed, students would learn and retain a lot more material. The SAT is a prime example of this. Studies show that students generally score better on their first attempt because they know they will have more opportunities to take the test again and get a higher score. With this mindset, students are generally more lackadaisical on the first attempt. Being relaxed increases their threshold of availability and allows the brain to think more clearly. This would be an ideal situation for any learning environment. Find where your interests lie and then take classes that tap into those interests. There are no grades, so essentially you cannot fail. If you cannot fail, you do not have to worry about dropping out, wasting insane amounts of money on tuition, and disappointing your family. With these pressures removed, the brain is free to absorb all of the information presented. This would be a nice change, but it just is not practical. In competitive fields where jobs can be scarce, there needs to be a device to weed out people who are not as prepared. For us, the device is grades.
I found the article, "So You Think You Deserve an "A," Do You?", very interesting and relevant being in college. The part that really intrigued me though, was the section about Princeton limiting the amount of A’s that departments can give out. I think that is utterly ridiculous. I mean I understand fully that if a lot of students get A’s it kind of lessens their value. Although, limiting the amount is unfair. I really cannot understand how you do that? How do you limit the number of a certain grade students can achieve? When grading tests do you have to grade tests on a different scale just because there were too many A’s? But what if even with that new scale, too many students still get A’s. What if a student studied extremely hard and legitimately got a good grade, but they are not able to because of this rule? If someone gets an A they should get an A and not maybe be deferred a grade because they met their “quota” (I know the article said it’s not a quota, but to me that’s what it seems like). I personally cannot wrap my mind about this concept I guess.
Also, on another note, I am not really a fan of grades sometimes. I find it more important to understand concepts then be tested on the most absurd and hard things just to challenge people. I know it is probably to just separate the people who actually know it and the “slackers.” For example with the Math class I am taking now, they do not need to take the hardest problems we never did just to separate people who actually know it. When the class average is a 60, there is something wrong with the system. It just stresses out students for unnecessary reasons. I feel like some teachers even make it hard to achieve an A even if you are an A student. They give so many crazy demands that you must do. I also believe that some type of effort should count for something. Although, that is not being counted into grades. It is too black and white. Some student might not be able to understand something. They might try everyday to work at it and understand it. They might even go see their teacher during office hours but despite all that work it just will not click in their mind. It is not their fault and what if it is required for their major. They may never even use it but just need that class for some ridiculous reason for their major, but they cannot get. And despite all of their hard work they will never get it. I believe teachers should recognize that and give some type of credit.
Grade inflation is something that has stemmed from the newer childhood concept of “everybody is a winner,” just another result of our super-political correctness of the day. Everyone feels as though they deserve the highest grade, the special treatment, etc. It is interesting, because this conflicts with the foundational beliefs of our country. Capitalism, what we built our American empire on, is comprised of winners and losers. A few people are at the top, controlling most of the wealth and power, most of the people are somewhere in the middle, and then many people are at the bottom. We pride ourselves on people’s abilities to transfer between classes, but even so there is still a class divide. There are still people who “lose” in our system. That’s why I think it is ironic that we are being taught as kids that everyone is a winner; everyone deserves a pat on the back, a “participation” trophy, and a sticker. As we got older (I feel like my generation was the start of this phenomenon), we got to college and now everyone wants an “A” (myself included). I do believe that teachers should make exceptions to deadlines, without penalty in some cases. I feel that this thought would have been unheard of in the past, but it is the way that we were taught the world (or at least our society) works. I also realize that in saying that I feel entitled, it isn’t just because I am an American citizen, but also because I am a white, male, middle class American citizen. Those were responses that I would respect to “grade deflation” in the article. Although it is a totally different ball game from high school, part of me still wants the A over all else (despite what I learn in a class). I’ll avoid classes that people call “impossible” to get an A in, even if it is in an interesting subject. This is because GPA is one of the few methods of gauging how much a person knows about a subject, even if it is a terrible gauge of it. I want my GPA, above all else (in terms of schooling) to be as high as possible. What I learn in these classes as I seek my A is important, but more of a benefit than a major cause. I’m not sure how grade inflation really impacts the electrical engineering major, since most of my classes have averages on tests in the 40’s or 50’s. The teacher then curves so that the average is about a 75%. Therefore, the professor tries his or her best to keep it in the middle of the grade curve, since a C is technically “average.” I know that at Harvard, it is unheard of to get below a B in most classes, as is the same in many other Ivy League Schools. A high GPA and a college name like Harvard makes any graduate a first choice in any job that he or she seeks. This is why grade inflation in college occurs; colleges want their kids to get better jobs. For this to really take effect, all schools would have to agree to deflate grades to some set standard.
I remember talking about this during my freshman seminar class. On the first day the professor explained to us that she gives the grades you deserve, not what you want. She said she would be happy to give everyone in the class an A, if everyone in the class earned an A. Her words and similar speeches from other professors have stuck in my mind over the last six semesters. When I go into a class, I know that no matter how easy it is, I am still going to have to work hard for an A. I think this is a valuable lesson that all students should learn and understand.
I think that it is wonderful that the amount of A’s have jumped so much over the years, but I have to agree that it is probably not because students have gotten smarter. I think that students have an easier time in persuading professors and in turn they are more inclined to gives A’s. Giving A’s to everyone in the class may seem like a good idea at the time; it gives students what they want which often results in positive feedback for the professors, but it only hurts the students in the long run. Because of this, I think Princeton’s policy changes are for the best. They force students to be competitive and really allow the smartest, most committed students succeed and break away from the pack.
I really agree with the Times article. I think that students, including myself at times, feel entitled to get an A. They don’t realize that C is the default grade and that they need to work that much harder for an A. I have taken a few classes at Penn State that could be considered “automatic A’s.” I knew this going into the class, slacked off, and got an A- or B+. After receiving those grades in such easy classes, I really learned that there is no “automatic A,” and that I had to work for every grade I wanted.
I agree that one of the reasons for this self-entitlement is because of the pressure of the competition. I had no idea how intense the competition would be when I came to college. Every grade, every class matters, and it is incredibly important that you stand out from the rest of the students. Internships, jobs, and graduate programs only want the best students. They can have anyone they want and grades are one of the things they consider most. Students, including myself, feel an incredible amount of pressure to do better than other students in hopes of getting a good job or into a graduate program. I think if some of the pressure was taken off of grades and put more on extracurricular activities, community service, and interviews, this increase of self-entitlement would go down.
While I understand the need for grades and a method of comparing students in a competitive workplace, my personal solution to this problem is to do away with the grading system. Too often have I seen people deem themselves as worthy or unworthy simply based on a few point differentials on the grading scale. As our society puts more emphasis grades and achievement, students will become better and better at achieving better grades. More preparation is available to students now than ever for standardized tests such as the SATs and other entrance exams. These scores are steadily increasing over time, and many would attribute these increases in scores to better preparation. Many students fall into the trap that employers judge students soley on their GPAs, and sometimes, it is true. But in the long run, employers tend to look for a different type of education, the kind that is not necessarily learned in the classroom. The ability to socialize, to quickly learn, and to recognize problems is often stressed over book smarts. It saddens me to see how students often get so caught up in the attainment of good grades rather than actual knowledge. What Princeton is doing, I think, is good and bad for the students. On one hand, it will motivate the students to achieve better grades and become more competitive in an increasingly competitive work environment. On the other hand, it turns students on each other. College is often revered as a place where students find their niche, and truly find life long friends with whom they develop meaningful and lasting relationships. Having quotas for grades does not help this concept and alienates the students, in a sense. Also, I do not believe in robbing students of what should rightfully be their grade. Many people in our society stress that people should get what they deserve, and bumping an A down to a B because there are too many A’s is no way to encourage this belief. I could not imagine being one of the students in this position, and it would stress and anger me greatly to think about having to be victim to this unfair system. I find that a lot of students do not retain the knowledge they have to study for, and this, above all is the worst effect in my opinion. Students train themselves to study well for the test, not the actual information. While I do not have an easy solution to all these issues, I do not believe that the current system we have is helping our society in the long run. There are plenty of virtues to be learned from a system like this, but the mental emotional and even economic effects this system has could be detrimental to our society in the long run.
After reading this blog and article I can definitely attest to the same sentiments these students felt. Not to sound conceded or cocky but I was one of those students in high school that did not have to do much in order to earn high grades. I would be able to sit in class, pay attention, glance over notes and then score a 95 on an exam. Once I got to college, that was a big reality check for me. When I scored less than what I expected on my first college exam I realized that my high school ways would not get me through college and earn the grades that I wanted to earn.
The one thing I do not agree with in this blog is the idea of grade deflation. Professors should not have quotas for A’s. If 100 students rightfully earn an A in a class one semester and a professor can only give 50 of those students an A, how is it fair to the other 50 that deserve the same grade. If that is the case professors should alter their class for the next semester to make it more difficult or harder to achieve that perfect score.
I have been in the situation in a general education class at Penn State where I had to protest a grade from an A- to an A. I have never done this before but I felt it was the grade I ‘rightfully deserved.’ I am normally not the person to think that I deserve a grade better than I earned. I know when I don’t put in my full effort that I cannot expect to be perfect, but the situation I was in with this class was completely different. After many tedious weeks going between professor, TA and department head I was able to get my grade changed.
I believe that a good point that comes from this article is that students cannot expect to do better than they actually deserve. Just because your grades have never been low before does not mean that they cannot get there. In college one must not just put in effort, but time and skill in order to get a grade they deserve. As to the point that more students are earning grades now than at the start of Soc 119, I believe that technology has a big part to play. We are able to continuously view class notes on websites, like ANGEL, and have all other resources right at our fingertips. Students who come to class, put in time and effort have an advantage but they also have the added effect of technological resources. As for reading, I think that many students feel frustrated because a lot of professors, ‘teach from the textbook.’ To me, it is redundant to read a textbook and then go to class to learn the same thing I just read.
Grades are something that determines your life. That is the message we get from 3rd grade! It is all about how smart you are and not even that but the grades that you get to prove it. If you are a kid with a 170 IQ but you are lazy and get only C’s you might not get anywhere in life. If you can get good grades you get into a good college and then get a good job that pays you more money than someone who didn’t have those grades. The only thing that I will say about grades is the fact that a lot of it is based of work ethic. That really isn’t a bad thing I mean if you work really hard to achieve something shouldn’t you be rewarded? Isn’t that the “American dream”? So in one sense kids caring about their grades is a good thing and I hope someday my kids care as much about their future and grades as I do. On the other hand it has become such an issue to have high grades that it is causing stress for a lot of America youth. We are pressured to a point that kids every year will kill themselves because of a few bad grades! That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. That kids will be pushed to feel like their life is over because they might fail a class or a few classes is just not the message I think any parents want their kids to get. Back in the day I feel like grades weren’t so pressured on to kids but now it is all that some people can think about. I do disagree with the comments in the article about kids feeling they should have a B just for showing up to class and reading. I think if you the bare minimum you receive a grade that reflects your effort. The problems is who can judge how much effort someone puts in, all the time kids who prepared get screwed into a bad grade and kids who did not do anything get lucky with a good grade. That just is the way life goes I guess but life cannot ever really be fair. I know in the article it is saying how teachers don’t want to just play to the system and that makes sense but how can teachers break those barriers. I think this class does it every day but what about some classes that can’t. It would be hard to format a math class to not be about the grade. I think the best thing we can do is just offer as many programs to further education, like seminars, for the things kids are really interested in.
The intense emphasis on grades, within the last few years especially, has been something that has really irritated me. I see it every day and with so many different students, so many will only take the “easy” classes that will guarantee them good grades. Others will go as far to choose a major that they have a better chance at thriving at, rather than picking one that they are truly interested in. With the thousands and thousands of dollars we, or for some of us our parents, spend on our college education you would think that most people would want to get more out of it than a 4.0 GPA. Who is really putting all this pressure on us to succeed? For many of us I am sure it is grad school, future employers, or our parents. I personally do not want to waste four or more years of my life taking classes I have no interest in. Yes of course I want to do well and get as many A’s as possible because I feel the pressure as well, however, I refuse to sacrifice exploring my interests for a higher GPA. I know that I would regret it if I went through college turning down classes I knew I would really enjoy because I knew that they would be more difficult than other options. Although many may be comfortable taking the “easy” way out now I am sure that one day they will look back on all of their wasted time and money and wonder what if. It really is unfortunate though because deep down I do not think it is the students fault. Society as a whole puts so much pressure on us to “succeed”. No wonder why so many opt to take classes that will allow them to do just that. I do not measure success on the amount of A’s I receive but on the amount I take out of a class or experience. If I feel as though I tried my hardest and learned a great deal then that is what should count and not the grade I received. I think it is ridiculous to limit the number of A’s given out because this just puts more pressure on students to compete for these now even more impossible grades. Environments like these disgust me. I like to feel as though I can build and bounce off of my fellow classmates and that I can help them succeed and they in turn can help me when I do not understand something. I do feel as though Penn State is a school where I can do this and where I can depend on others for help, but it is scary to think in a few years from now this may not be the case. Princeton’s “answer” to this problem is not the right way out at all and one would think that a school this acknowledged would know this. But maybe they really do not care about the inner dynamics of the student and they want to better prepare them for the real world. However, a solution like this will only add to the rat race of what our world is becoming. I personally will stand by my goal of taking the classes I choose to, not for the grade I will receive, but for the knowledge I will gain. When the time comes around later in life to be interviewed for jobs and I am put up next to a candidate with a higher GPA than me, I will simply explain that my GPA was not my number one priority. If a company does not higher me solely based on this than I know it would not be the right position for me anyway because I honor and admire those that pursue the things that they love.
I have to agree with the latest blog post about students receiving A’s. It’s almost like grades don’t even matter anymore because its so easy to get a high GPA by taking easy classes with professors that you know give lots of A’s. Just look at the popularity of sites like ratemyprofessor.com. Websites like this make it easy to pick only classes with professors that have been labeled easy. In general it seems that students now focus more on their grades than what they are actually learning. Isn’t the point of going to college actually getting an education? Now more than ever students just try and memorize before their tests and forget everything not more than a week later. I know because I do it all the time. I would agree with Sam that I do not think students have gotten all that much smarter as a whole but I think that we, as students, have gotten better at working the system. It seems like doing well in a class is predicated more on memorization than on critical thinking. This makes no sense because in the real world, critical thinking and being quick on your feet is what sets people apart. Why isn’t this tested more in college. Sure some classes do this but as a whole most really don’t. One reason for this I think is the advent of scantron. Most tests are now scantron and as a result are comprised solely of multiple choice questions. Multiple choice questions are meant to basically test one’s recollection and memorization of the material but not to use the material to think critically. Student’s grades have gone up in part because I think we as students have figured out that we simply have to figure out what to memorize in order to get good grades.
Now this brings me to whether or not grades are even relevant. I have read some blog posts where people are saying that we should no longer have grades. While grades have become way too subjective, there needs to be some way to compare different students in terms of their ability in the classroom. Otherwise students who did nothing and students who worked hard would appear the same to employers. I think that grades need to go back to the bell curve. There should be a certain amount of A’s, B’s, and C’s. Sure that breeds competitiveness but what’s wrong with that? Competitiveness makes people work harder and pushes people to do their best. Otherwise students are left just trying to reach some arbitrary standard of work deemed “A” quality. That leaves students trying to do the least they can do to receive an A. I should know, I do it all the time. What incentive do I have to try harder if I can get an A with little effort?
I have noticed this trend in the increasing of grades, or grade inflation, as well. It used to be that a 3.0 was well above average, at least in my opinion but recently that is merely the average student and will not make it any easier for you to stand out on your resume for job applications or get into law school without an amazingly high lsat score. Grade Inflation may definitely have something to do with a students “sense of entitlement”. I think the root of these sentiments can really be found in high school. I remember in my high school countless numbers of students would complain about grades they got and talk about how much they may have studied and even bring this to light to the teacher. If their grade was not changed on the spot or an offer for extra credit was given to them to improve their overall grade many times their parents would step in. Nothing annoyed or irritated me more than this. I came from a fairly affluent neighborhood and to see some kids who were in many cases spoiled rotten since birth run to their mommies and daddies to help them get a grade they did not deserve would often give me fits. I do not believe in that kind of nonsense, if you want to dispute a grade by all means go for it but take responsibility and actions into your own hands; there is nothing more pathetic than being that dependant on your parents when you are on the fringes of becoming an adult. Anyway, as far as this transferring over to college there are some things that do not make sense. Self entitlement may make you feel as though you deserve a better grade but that does not explain why you will receive a better grade. Obviously more students may dispute their grade but it is still up to the Instructor to award them the extra points that they desire. So is it really the students that are to blame for grade inflation? I do not really agree with Cornell’s standard percentage distribution of grades, this creates a very stressful environment and does not necessarily reflect the deserved student grade; don’t they have the highest suicide rate of any university in the country? I like Penn States system that shows the percentage points every assignment is worth and the grade you will receive with certain overall percentages. It is up to the professor to maintain this grading strictly and only award extra points if they are deserved. I do have to say that in the attached article I scoffed at one particular statement made by Professor Brower from Wisconsin. “He said that if students developed a genuine interest in their field, grades would take a back seat, and holistic and intrinsically motivated learning could take place.” That is all well and good but intrinsically motivated learning can not truly exist if education is being structured and standardized and general education courses which often have no interest to the student and nothing useful to add to their field are being required by education boards and administrators. So that argument should go right out the door, we are not in ancient Greece sitting under olive trees philosophizing and learning for higher moral value.
I feel a lot like the college students in the paper. I feel that effort, going to class and doing the work should account for more than it does. At college, however, they barely give homework, some classes attendance is not required, and when it is it is worth very little, and some classes give a few projects and assignments that are not worth much. That basically leaves your grades to how well you can do on a test. Some people just are not good at taking tests. They cannot deal with the stress and the pressure. However, this does not mean that they do not know the material and that they did not go to class or do the work. I feel like in college, if you are not good at test taking, then you are basically screwed since the tests count for the majority of the grade. Sam said himself that teachers aim for the average test grade to be a C. Well, what grade is below a C? D’s and F’s, and that is failing. So the people who are not good at taking the tests have really no chance. They give us no leeway. It is almost like the teachers want to make the class do bad, and in reality everyone wants to do well. Granted there are some students who can care less, but there are the people that do try and do everything that are assigned. For me, I know when I work hard and do everything I can and I still get a bad grade on a test, or in the course, I makes me feel like “Fuck it. I am not going to do well any way so why do I even bother trying.” When teachers make the class and tests unreasonably hard, what they do not understand is that they are making to students loose interest, loose motivation, loose confidence, and loose hope. Also, sometimes I do not think teachers realize that their class is not the only one us students are taking. There is only so much one person can do in a day, and when they are overwhelmed and stressed, it is not helping anything. Our work is probably not done as well as it could have been giving us a lower grade. In a way, I kind of feel like college, Penn State especially because I know of other schools with the same courses that are not nearly as hard, makes the required classes so much harder than they should be with the intent of failing their students. It makes sense. Because since the course is required, the student will have to keep retaking it until they pass, probably causing them to be in college longer than the norm, therefore paying more money. So I think colleges make things unreasonably hard (chem and bio tests) just so the students do not do well so the college can then benefit from the extra money.
Grades have been very important to my parents and I would say that they have instilled the idea of getting good grades in me. At first, I resented getting straight “A’s” thinking it was cool to defy my parents but then I realized how important grades are for me and my future.
Since the sixth grade, I knew how important grades are because it pretty much affects a lot of opportunities. I know some people say it is only a grade and it will not matter in your future, but I believe it does matter in my future. Take for example, in high school and you are applying to colleges. Colleges want you to have a certain GPA to even consider looking at your application. This is also to case for grad schools. When it comes to a job, experience is more important, but what if two people have the same experiences, the deciding factor might be the GPA.
I believe it is unfair to restrict the amount of A’s given in class. I do not agree with the students from the article that if you attend class and do the readings, you deserve a better grade. I think an “A” grade should only be given to students who perform well and/or put a lot of effort into their work. Some students are just naturally better at test taking and performing better when it comes to graded assignments, and I think they deserve an A if the professor believes the student deserves it.
For students who are not naturally better at taking test or performing well on graded assignments, this is where effort comes in. This is the time to show your professor that you care. Go to the professor’s office hours and ask for their help. Ask to see how things can be done differently so the grade improves. I know a lot of professors who are more conscious of grading a student who does not perform as well as others, but take the effort in speaking to them. Some, not all professors tend to grade more fairly if they see that you are constantly trying to get a good grade. This is the effort that professors can see. They cannot see that you are struggling unless you tell them and they cannot you reading in the library.
Just making an effort, reading, and going to class should not be enough to get you an A or a B, because usually, they are the class requirements. If you are just meeting the requirements, then professors have the right to just give you the requirement to pass the class. I believe professors reserve the right to give lower grades only if the reasons for the lower grades are explained thoroughly. I do not believe a professor deserves to restrict the amount of A’s given just so their class does not “seem too easy.”
High School seemed to be a breeze compared to college. Heck, my Penn State satellite school was much easier. Coming up to Main campus I wasn’t aware of the shock that was soon to overcome me. People talked like Main campus was going to be a breeze. I had another thing coming. I had to work much harder to keep my grades up and yes, when I did get a bad grade I felt the need to speak with a professor because I knew how much more I had to work on the test/paper/ect. I never thought once about “deserving” the grade. I mean, perhaps I did deserve it, but sometimes I did (and still do) feel the need to speak to the teacher about a performance they thought was poor if I knew I had worked hard. MY GPA has dropped but its not because I have slacked off, its because classes and courses have gotten harder. As I embark on the real world if they would look at my grades and my work ethic it would be completely different and wouldn’t make sense. There are students out there that just expect that A. Believe me, I know some people who are like that. People that get mad about getting a B is just ridiculous. A B is a good grade! Hello! I prefer teachers that had out assignments that spell out the requirements in order to get ----whatever----grade. But college is about challenges and you have to jump through hoops sometimes but its all about that life experience and learning the lesson. And Also, grades don’t define you as a person. I feel as though college is important and learning the skills for your major is very important but the most important thing is how you handle yourself in a real working environment. They way someone conducts themselves in the work world will define them better than their GPA. You could have someone with a 4.0 GPA but they could be a dumb as a brick when it comes to people skills. This might not always/ever be the case but when I apply for a job I hope they look at my resume and know that I am serious about my career path. My GPA could be better but grades don’t define you. Grades are important to students, we are here to pass and graduate and enter the work world. I’m just saying that people need to lighten up when it comes to defining a person by their grades. That should play a factor in evaluating the person overall, but an employer shouldn’t hire or fire you based on your GPA. Skills for me, in some cases, more important.
The grading system that the majority of primary, secondary and college institutions use is by no means perfect, but is the best system to evaluate performance. In my educational experience I have come across many grading systems, some which benefit me and others that hurt me. I have had courses where the grade you earned is your grade, I have classes where there is a curve, I have had a class here the highest set percent got A’s, next percent got B’s and so on. All of these systems are flawed, but overall I feel that the system should be the same across all aspects of education or at least standard across Penn State.
The article presents statements of students and professors that explain the different ways they feel about the grades they get. A common opinion of students is that if they show up for class, study hard, and do their work , that they should get an A or at least a B. I find these opinions to be ridiculous because this is not how it works in the real world. The purpose of college is to prepare you for the real world. I agree that once you get into the work force, hard work will be appreciated by your boss, just as it is by professors. But hard work without success, such as working hard in sales, but not making any money, will not keep you at the job very long and will not be “graded” well by the company.
It is often argued that a main catalyst for the increased demand for higher grades is the pressure put on by parents, tougher competition in the workforce, and competition among peers. Although all of these may be true, I feel at the heart of the grades issue and debates on which system is best to used is the relationship between professors and universities. Although I have been told numerous times that the university does not require a professor do have certain grades, I have also heard that a nice bell shape curve with a distribution of A’s to F’s is required. Professors have come right out and said, “If all or most of you get A’s I will be questioned and possibly lose my job.” This is where the problem stems from because it creates an atmosphere that grades are not distributed to match the performance of the students, but rather to match up with the companies agenda.
Rather than further arguing this issue I feel the most important thing for students to do is to study hard and do the best you can. One bad grade is not going to change your future forever, but in the world we live in, and with the increasing desire of skilled labor in our country, achieving in school is your pass to success in the future.
When I first began reading this article, I definitely agreed. There are many students who think that they deserve the A just because they have completed the work. It seems as if the grades become different as you get older. In elementary school, the main focus was effort. Therefore, many of the teachers graded their students on their hard work. Children grow up being taught that “as long as they work their hardest, that’s all that matters”. But, is that really true?
As you go into high school and college, things change. Advisors and counselors in high school stressed the importance of your grades and your overall GPA. It was all about making the honors list, and your future. For me, my parents stressed the importance of grades, an A being the goal. B’s were okay, and C’s were certainly not acceptable. However, if I proved that I was trying my hardest, it was okay. But then you reach junior year. Your fellow students are comparing GPA’s with one another, and wondering what colleges everyone will be able to get into. So, all in all, you need good grades to get a good GPA, a good GPA to get into a good college, and you need to attend a good college to get a good job. Now, this job basically defines a large portion of your future. Sometimes, I think that giving out grades takes away from the learning experience. It makes it seem as if it’s a job. However, if we didn’t have those grades, the majority of people wouldn’t put in the effort. So where’s the line? Who deserves what grades? If it’s considered that C is the “default”, then that should be universal. Most people think that C is on the way to the F, rather than the A, which makes people think that they deserve the “A” no matter what.
For this class especially, I’m not sure I agree with the grading system. Some people aren’t good at tests in general. So is it fair that that’s our only basis for how well someone does in a class? If I were to run a class, I would have it be a variety of different grades. I feel like to truly give everyone the option of doing well, you need the variety. That being said, I would have attendance, papers, tests, and projects. I do think you can have tests for a math exam because there is only one answer. There are certain things that you just need to learn and study. However, I don’t think for this class that tests are the right way to go. It’s all about perspectives and opinions. So, I should be tested on my teacher’s opinions or the author’s opinions? I think it would be much more beneficial to have papers due, with students explaining their perspectives. It would make us think, rather than just have us re-read lecture notes. However, 5-page papers aren’t always the right choice when you’re in a lecture with 500 students. Overall, I’m not sure what the answer is when it comes to grading. If we are going to make the “A” harder to get, then we need to make it known that it’s unique to get. Then perhaps getting these high grades would be more of a special occurrence.
After reading the blog entry for today I feel that several main points were addressed and that several statements were made by these professors and deans that show how truly disconnected these school employees really are from the student body. I understand that grade inflation can be looked at from several points of view. For instance higher grades may appear that a professor or teacher is either grading assignments too easily, or not making their course work challenging enough to stimulate the student’s minds. On the contrary grade inflation may come across as a more driven generation of students feeling the pressures of this economic struggle, in an attempt to achieve the best grades possible with hopes of landing the highest paid jobs available. Being someone that admits to feeling the pressures of tests and not always performing to the level I expect of myself I support the idea that a students effort should be taken into consideration by the schools and teachers. I feel that it is true that there are students who just don’t have exceptional test taking abilities despite their preparation of the material. Obviously students who attend Ivy League colleges are somewhat of an exception, but for the rest of us sincere effort put forward in a course should matter a great deal. I see this debate regarding the importance of grades as a sign of the disconnect and lack of understanding between generations, and how the way of the world and this cut throat attitude has changed peoples views. Years ago when our professors attended school I feel that attending college was more of a privilege as opposed to now it being a necessity to even get a decent paying job. Years ago our society had a more working class mentality where you would get a job and the thought of college was really on the back burner for most individuals. In today’s society, as I mentioned above a college degree is a crucial tool to someone obtaining a good job. Today’s job markets are so cut throat and limited that grades have become an extremely important asset to individuals looking for a good job. I feel that in previous years if a person were to obtain a C average all throughout college they would still be able to graduate and easily make a decent living. Now with the economic struggles we are going though as a country the C students find it harder to get hired. Companies have the ability to choose the best candidates in the job market which leaves little room for an individual with a C average or worse. In my opinion this is why the importance of grades has risen so much amongst students all over. For universities and schools to put a quota on the amount of A’s a professor is allowed to give out I believe is completely ridiculous and unfair to us students.
When I first came to Penn State as a freshman, I was hit with the hard reality that I actually had to work for my grades and keep up with assigned readings throughout the semester. Throughout high school, I breezed by, like most other students and as long as the teachers knew who I was, I would be fine at the end of the year. It was a known fact that those students, who didn't make the honor roll in high school, just didn't even make an attempt with anything. Coming to college was a bit of a culture shock for me and I quickly had to figure out how to juggle all of my classes, with the new thrill of being independent. I don’t think I ever really felt like a deserved a higher grade than I got in college because most of the syllabi from my classes had a clearly defined grade breakdown. I knew from the beginning of the semester what was expected of me and I tried to achieve the best score I could in all my classes.
I do think a lot of the time; students have trouble trying to figure out what they need to do in a class to get an A. I know as in my case, I am one of those students who will attend every lecture and take notes on all the readings and be diligent throughout the semester, and still only pull off a B. The fact that some students don't need to study or even attend class and then they receive a higher grade than me is frustrating.
I think it is wrong for people to assume that because they put in a certain amount of effort, they automatically deserve an A. A lot of students in my forensic accounting class this semester became very frustrated when we had our first quiz in this class. All quizzes are unannounced and are based off of numerous assigned articles and readings. I think many people got overwhelmed on how much material there was that they simply gave up and thought it was ridiculous. While I’ll agree that there was an overwhelming amount of information for a quiz that might not even happen, I looked over each of the articles before class and tried to find a main idea to focus on. By doing this, and not trying to read every word, it was more efficient and I learned that his quizzes were actually fair. He just wanted to make sure we were at least preparing ourselves for class.
I think a lot of the time students do feel entitled to a higher grade. Although I don't entirely agree with there being a quota for the percentage of A’s there are at a school, I think students need to face the reality that not everything in life is handed to you. Professors have different methods of grading and students have to learn to adapt to their style of teaching if they want to earn a high grade.
I’m really glad that there was a post that was different than race. I know that this is a race class and race should be the main focus of our conversations, but it is a nice break.
Being a future teacher, I am actually really scared to talk to parents. The impression I have gotten of parents is a really bad one. Here is the scenario. A kid gets a bad grade on his report card. He/she goes home, complain to his/her parents, the parents call the school and complain to the teachers. The teacher then gets in trouble, or the parents spread around that this particular teacher is horrible. What I do not understand is why none of the blame falls on the student. If the student gets a bad grade, why is the teacher blamed? Okay, I understand that some (like a minimal amount should be placed on the teacher if he/she did not teach the material properly or if there was indeed a grading bias) blame does fall on the teacher’s shoulders, but I personally think that the majority of the fault goes with the student. Students should think with an internal locus of control, instead of an external locus of control. It is the actions of the students that cause results, positive or negative, not outside forces. For example, if student got a bad grade, an internal locus of control would say that he/she did not study enough. An external locus of control would blame the teacher, the pencil, his/her peers, the lighting, etc.
Applying this to the college region, I can understand why some students believe that if you were to put in effort, you should get a good grade. I agree with the article that this is a direct result of our K-12 education. In school, we were taught that any form of effort would get a good grade. I do believe that we need to re-vamp education, but at the same time, I do believe that effort put in deserves merit. It does not deserve an A, but effort should be put into consideration when formulating the grades.
There is another issue that is spreading rampant among college students that also deals with grades. The need to succeed and get an A is spreading like the common cold. For example, I know a person that is completely obsessed with maintaining all A’s. It is ridiculous how this person will sit there and figure out the next grade on a test in order to get an A in the class. And when the grade does not meet their expectations, this person will talk to the teacher and try to get it changed. I really want to tell this person that no one is going to remember and/or care about the fact that you received a B in math. It is the degree that counts, not some random individual grade for a gen ed.
My mother always told that I would always have to work hard and be twice as good as the next person to get anywhere in life because I’m in a wheelchair and that’s the first thing people will see when they meet me. She didn’t say it to be cruel or to be mean, but she said because it’s true. It’s just a fact of my life. So when I was kid C’s in school were just not acceptable, they still aren’t. That’s not to say I haven’t gotten my fair share of C’s, I have, but it’s not for lack of trying. No one can be good at everything and Spanish and math are two things that I’m just not that good at, but I tried, worked hard in class, and got my C. My life didn’t end because I got a C and I still graduate with a degree in five weeks, despite the C’s on my transcript. It’s true I think some students do freak out over getting C’s and expect if they work hard they should get a better grade, but it’s hard to adjust especially for freshmen coming from high school, where from my experience at least, if you worked hard you got good grades. You get into that routine and to suddenly have that change it’s very hard to adjust to and yet all professors can say is well you’ll at least get a C. However, that’s not always true I have plenty of experiences where I work hard and get an A in class and then there are experiences where I hardly do any work in the class meaning I just do the assignments and go to lecture and don’t really study all that hard an get an A, then there are times I work really hard and get a C and that’s hard for anyone to understand or get use to. Professor Richards you say all the time in class C’s in earn degrees and that’s true, but you also talk about white privilege, so with everything I’ve learned in class so far I’m lead to believe that if a person of color and a white person walk into get a job and they have the same degree, experience, ect. the white person is more likely to get that job because of white privilege, so what choice does the person of color have than to be better than the white person so it’s sets them apart and they get the job. A way to set yourself a part is to get good grades, or to go an get your master’s or doctorate and you can only get those degrees by doing well in your undergraduate degree program. I mean perhaps I’m totally off in my view of this, but that’s how I see it because I was always told by my family that if an able body person walked in with the same credentials as me for a job they would get that job over me because they weren’t disabled, so I had to be better and a way to do that was to get good grades.
I have a couple feelings about the latest blog entry regarding grades, schoolwork, and this sense of students’ entitlements. First I would like to agree that I feel like students are getting better grades now than they were in the past; I don’t know why but that’s a feeling I get around campus. Also, I would agree that students are reading less than they were before, its almost like students are lazier but are getting better grades at the same time. I personally don’t do much work but I don’t get all A’s either so I think my grades reflect the amount of time I put into each of my classes. This related perfectly to this sense of entitlement that students have in today’s society. I have definitely seen and heard some cases where students have complained stating that they worked to hard just to get a C or B on a paper, or that they studied for so many hours and think they should be handed a pefect score on a silver platter. I hate when students act and talk like this because it’s a load of shit. A student works hard to try to answer every question correctly on a test or write a great paper. The test doesn’t care how much or how little you studied, and neither does the professor. It’s up to the student to work hard and feel prepared to answer every question right. For a student to say that they worked too hard for a poor grade is so false, because you deserve the grade that you get and clearly you didn’t work hard enough.
In terms of the grade deflation topic like at Princeton, I completely disagree with that method. I think it is totally and utterly unfair for some students to not receive A’s when they turn in A quality work just because only 35% can receive A’s. I can’t imagine being at a school where not every student can receive a grade that their work is worthy of. It is unfair and I feel like college should be a chance for students to succeed if they do great work, and at Princeton not every student can get the highest grades even if their work is of the greatest quality. College shouldn’t be a competition like it is at Princeton. I understand that grade inflation is occurring across the country but that isn’t a reason for colleges and universities to put a percentage on students that can receive A’s. I feel like colleges and universities should reward the grade inflation that is occurring in this country, and take pride that the majority of their students are great students who receive A’s.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous that schools would try to limit the number of As that they give out. It may cause students to study more and be more active in class however; it will instill fear and competition. We live in a world that is becoming increasingly more independent, but we need to work together sometimes and by making this grade rule we are making that a farther possibility. I like when teachers say that they don’t have a limited set of As that they are going to give out and if everyone receives an A then so be it. In the working world today, your GPA is one of the most important factors when comparing you to other job applicants. So by limiting the number of As, we are lessening the chance of a qualified applicant getting a job because they may not have gotten an A in say, CHEM110. Where is the fairness in this grading change? Professors would have to be subjective in giving out the grades and I don’t understand where the lines would fall. If I got all the same grades on the tests in a class as my friend, how can we get different grades? Would math students have to start writing papers or reports to create subjectivity in the class? This is not just a upset student preaching about how I want to keep the current grading system that we have at our school because I don’t want to work as hard: rather I am going to be a teacher in just a few years and I do not agree that by changing the system it would help my students in any way.
Not to bring race into the picture, but sometimes race and grades have some correlations. I am not a racist by any means, and I understand that we want diversity at universities, but why do we need a certain amount of students from minorities? My brother’s friend is Indian; he is a very nice guy but not really the smartest person. For some reason he out beat many applicants for a job at Johnson and Johnson. I can only assume that he got the job because nothing else makes sense, he didn’t do well in school and he doesn’t have a good work ethic. I feel like in the science fields this sometimes happens a lot. Is it because of stereotypes that this happens?
I hope that this grade change never comes to Penn State University. I would be accurate in saying that the majority of my fellow classmates would feel the same. We, as students, are already struggling with teachers that believe in the bell-curve grading, which is very similar to this, and I’ll tell you those are the teachers that are talked about multiple times on ratemyprofessor.com not to take. So what would students do if all teachers started to do that?
This article is true from the students perspective, but I also feel that high school is 10 times easier than college. Throughout high school, I took all honors courses and excelled in them without even trying. I never had to study for tests or anything, but my freshman year of college was an eye opener. I had to teach myself how to study.
I also agree with the students who think they can just do work and read and do what the teacher says and still get an A. I think we are taught that in high school because most classes were like if you did your homework you would easily pass the class. Well college is different, you would read and do all the work, but in some classes there isn’t any homework. There is just “suggested” work. I honestly think if college professors gave more homework then the students grades would improve because you’re forcing them to learn the material. I also have a personal example of my experience in English 15. In my entire life I never got lower than an A in any English course, well until last semester. I was considered one of the best writers in my high school. I wrote for our school paper and did a bunch of other writing activities. I wrote this paper in English and I got a C+ on it. I was shocked. It made me realize that college was completely different in high school.
I also heard of the grade deflation policy. I think that is crap. It is like the teachers don’t want their students to get A’s. College students already have so much going on and are already stressed out. Why make them compete even harder for a high grade? I have to agree on Sam’s perspective on grades, “C’s earn degrees.” I personally don’t want to have a C, but I agree because some people learn differently than others. And no matter what a grade of a C is considered “average.” So why are people so crazy about grades when the person with a C in a class can get the same job as a person with an A in a certain class? Either way, they are earning the same degree. I know for a fact that college is so much more harder than high school. Maybe high schools should make their curriculum harder. For example, all the high school math classes should be taught to take an exam without using a calculator because you are not allowed a calculator on college math exams. Also, get the English teachers to grade work harder, or make the students read more. I think that high school should prepare you for college. My high school didn’t prepare me much for college, and I even took the honors root. It is ridiculous that professors don’t want their students to get A’s. College is already stressful, why make it even worse?
It is 100% true. I agree that students today feel that they are entitled to certain grades. On occasion, I have been one of those students who go to the office of my professor and ask about grades. It isn’t necessarily an entitled reason, but more of a “I could use a better grade” mentality. If I do bare minimum and just do enough to get by, then that is the grade I deserve and am entitled to. I think when teachers change grades for reasons which have no value; I think we are in a situation where both parties are at fault. Some can blame the student because he/she think they are entitled to a grade, but then you have the professor who then changes the grade.
In a society where it seems the value of education is decreasing and where the idea of being “smart” and “better” then your competition is increasing, I think you are getting students who just try to swindle that grade. I have always been told that you get out what you put in, and I believe this. If I turn in some half ass piece of work that doesn’t even deserve to be looked at and get a C on it and then go to the professor and ask for a grade change and start throwing bullsh!t at him, then I am an idiot and if my professor changes then he is weak. I hate to sound harsh but it’s true. I think that is part of the problem with many things: Financial Markets, International Education levels; why more and more foreigners are graduating engineers and doctors and many other majors that require not only memorization but actual skill and knowledge of the material. Many of what is happening in this world with the financial crisis starts with uneducated people making decisions. They see easy money and don’t understand the consequences. They knew someone in the company and that’s why they were there. That’s America!
It seems that this country is going on its B.S. that seems to be in high supply. I do not at all agree with changing of a grade unless there is a valid argument. It almost is a way for the students to see just how much they can get a way with. I think a lot of it comes from with how kids were raised. All my life, my parents were strict and harsh and very stiff. They taught me the meaning of hard work, of responsibility, etc. If I ever gave my parent lip or raised my voice at them, WOOOP! It was a way to teach a lesson. I witnessed many of my childhood friends were essentially running all over their parents, whether it was being sneaky or argumentative, or just plain old being a brat. That was unheard of in my house and the houses of my family. I wasn’t allowed to stay up past ten let alone go to a party. The biggest problem was that these parents did nothing. America is so adement on letting kids do what they want because they are kids. I say NO, kids like anyone else need to be taught right and wrong. I think people in this country are too easy on their kids and need to be stricter. It is starting to shape the way we are growing up and how we succeed in the future.
Here I am in what could very well be my last semester as a college student, and will defiantly be my last semester as a penn state undergrad and that does nothing to inspire me to get straight A’s. You might think last semester, last change to prove myself, but that’s just not resonating with me. My mom on the other hand has something else in mind. She has hopes of seeing your daughter achieve Dean’s List honors in her last semester. I was kinda surprised that she cared that much, but it has caused a sense of urgency within me to scramble for the straight A’s that will make mom happy.
I certainly to not believe that a grade should reflect hoe hard someone work, but rather the quality of the work. It’s unfortunate that someone’s hardest work may not be worthy of an A grade but that’s the point of grades. If someone writes their personal best paper that does not me that it should receive that same grade of a flawless paper from someone who maybe did not have to exert as much effort. That’s what sets people apart. However the comment by Professor Grossman in the NYTimes article is startling. She says that if her students meet the standard requirements they will earn a C. I think that the professor should set standard that a A worthy and then if or when students fall short their grades should reflect that. I think that the student who are quoted in the article bring up interesting ideas. For Jason Green wood who think that just going to class and reading the material deems an A, I think that’s a bit absurd. Some people are smarter or brighter than others and they deserve better grades. Just doing what is expected of a student should not make you a straight A student. Sarah Kinn has a bit more of realistic expectations. She expects at least a B for attending class and reading. I could see that by be at every class and paying attention and also doing the reading my be the perfect foundation to be able to expect about a B grade. As long as you are attentive in class, and you are comprehending the reading then I would expect the student to be able to earn a B, but it doesn’t mean that they should just be given a B, like it’s some kind of reward for doing what students are supposed to do.
The increase in A grades that Sam has seen through his teaching career does not surprise me, but I’m not necessarily in favor of it. On the other hand, I don’t think that placing a limit of A’s given (as in Princeton) is a fair solution.
I am definitely one of those students that expects A’s in my classes. Well, it’s not so much that I expect it, more that I strive for A’s. That is, I am aware of how hard I work for these A’s. I study sooo much and take school very seriously and always have. In the article, it mentioned that this stemmed from students’ experience in grades K-12. I totally agree. My parents always pushed me to do well in school; I used to do homework over the summer that was given to me by my parents. I skipped 3rd grade because I was excelling so much (as much as you can excel in second grade). Once I hit middle school I was put in honors classes and math classes that were above the level I was supposed to be at. When I moved here to State College in 9th grade they placed me in a higher level of science than most people in my grade. So basically I’ve always been advanced and smart and earning pretty much all A’s. Which is easy to do in high school. So in high school, I expected my default grade to be A’s. But once I got to college, I realized it was a completely different game. And little advanced me, I’m double majoring in German and aerospace engineering, which is a tough load. Last semester, I worked my ass off and got straight A’s. Now I feel that since I got straight A’s my first semester, I have to live up to that for the rest of my college career. So right now, I am so determined to get straight A’s again, and I’m really nervous that I may not. In this class, for example, I feel like I might get a B because I didn’t read one of the books for the first exam so I didn’t do all that great on the exam, and I’m pretty upset about that. This also helps prove students are reading less and less. I know this is extremely true for me. After 10th grade I stopped reading the books we were supposed to read in English class and started reading spark notes. By my senior year, even the spark notes were too much to read. But I still manage to get A’s. With the exception of this class (unless I get like 100% on the final), it looks like I’m going to get straight A’s again this semester. Which is only going to keep this high standard I have for myself for the rest of my college career, and it’s going to make getting lower grades a much worse experience for me than it should be. The article states, “There is a mentality in students that ‘if I work hard, I deserve a high grade.’ “ This is definitely my mentality. But for me, when I get bad grades it’s almost always because I didn’t work hard enough. I almost never work my ass off and then receive a bad grade. So naturally this would be my mentality. I think it’s dumb that some of these students think that if they let the professor know that they are trying hard, that should be taken into account in their grade. Clearly any slacker can just say that they are trying really hard and they would get a better grade and that’s just not fair at all. I also think it’s really dumb that some colleges have grade deflation policies. More people getting A’s should be a good thing and it makes the school look better so I don’t understand why they would want to reduce the number of A’s. A’s are good! :)
I have heard from many different sources throughout my four years at Penn State that there has been an undeniable trend in grade inflation, so it is no surprise to me to hear that in 20 years, the number of “A” students has increased 13 percent to nearly half of the overall student population. I can also vouch for students reading less and less. You can actually see that trend by simply entering a large lecture hall a few minutes before a mid-term exam is about to take place. In almost every large class in the Forum Building, you will see a sea of red packets that students have purchased from Nittany Notes as a substitution for conventional textbook reading. While it very well be much easier to obtain an “A” in college now than in the 1980’s and students are able to maintain above a 3.0 GPA relatively easily, it is no longer the only requirement to obtain a job post-graduation. After 2 years of attending company information sessions, career fairs, and first/second round interviews, I have learned that grades are the least of students’ worries when it comes to the job hunt. Recruiters across the board want to see more out of a student’s resume than just a high GPA. They want to see that a student actually has been taking the initiative to develop their skills outside of the classroom. They want to see students taking the time to study abroad and learn a second language. They want to see internship and co-op experiences. They want to see involvement and leadership in student organizations. Most importantly, they want to see entrepreneurship.
I think it is interesting to see freshman and sophomore students competing for grades in the same class. Inevitably one student may have a 3.1 GPA while the other has a 3.8. If the 3.1 student is more involved and has done more outside the classroom than the 3.8 student, they will most likely have the same interview opportunities and the playing field is all of a sudden leveled. Once in the interview, however, the 3.1 student now has much more to talk about than the 3.8 student who spent the majority of their college career studying in the library.
In a world where technology is changing so fast that the classroom can no longer keep up, it is vital that students take the time to learn and utilize on their own. By the time there is a class at Penn State that incorporates Twitter or LinkdIn, there will be a new set of social networking tools that are far more advanced. Students need to take the time and care enough about their futures to spend time on their own enhancing their skills, networking using non-university connections, and developing themselves into something that a recruiter will be able to train in order to provide value to their company.
I found this blog very interesting especially because I was actually just talking about this topic with a few friends the other day. There are really so many factors that coming into account when discussing grades. Students have different ideas of what college is and that influences the classes you take, the professors you choose, the major you choose, and the grades you get. I know many students who believe college is the time you get to figure out what interests you in life so that you can make an educated decision on what you want your major to be and/or what you want to do after college. Other students believe that college is the time you get to build you resumes with the necessary experiences, get the highly competitive, top notch GPA regardless of whether the classes really interest you or not, and make your name look better on the top of that resume that anyone else that went to your university. Granted in today’s business world, a high GPA, much previous work experience including everything from internships, co-ops, and study abroad programs, and networking are required to get even just an interview. The real world is becoming even more competitive than ever before. It is not enough to just have that 4.00 GPA but you need to have all the extra-curricular, know the right people, and come from a good school. All these factors together increase the reasons why more students are becoming more stressed and overwhelmed throughout college. Clearly the recession is not helping this matter but only making it more competitive for out of college students to find jobs. The reason students put so much emphasize on grades nowadays is because they are only being realistic. The first thing recruiters see is a glimpse of your resume and I have no doubt saying that their eyes look first at the GPA. Striving for a high GPA isn’t wrong but sometimes different reasons come into play. Many college students look for those classes that are known as GPA boosters, those boring classes like ‘rocks for jock’ that are just jokes but you are pretty much guaranteed to get an A. other students choose classes based on their interests and know that college is allowing you take any course that you enjoy. It’s hard for some to realize that grades aren’t the most important thing in life. They get you in the door, but they aren’t what’s on the other side. Personally, I think grades are unfair at all schools. Here at Penn State I’m sure many students can agree and say that teachers play a huge role on what grades you get. Some teachers are easier than others and some teachers have better grading systems than others. There is also the factor of how much work and effort you put into a course. It really sucks when you read all the assignment books, take notes in class, go to every class, plus office hours and pretty much do everything required and more for a class and still get a lower grade than another student who misses class occasionally and doesn’t read the books but just take the exams. How is a teacher supposed to grade fairly when this is happening. That is why I think some teachers like to count attendance as a grade, or have little homeworks, or extra credits in class. Overall college is supposed to be a place of learning and not just competing to get the highest grade. It’s sad to know that college looks like its just a place where students are looking for the easy colleges, easy majors, easy professors, easy classes and easy ways to get an A.
I think that for the most part there is a lot expected of our generation. We are the future after all and that alone holds a lot of weight to it. I don’t think that A’s should be handed out like candy but I do think that a lot of professors cease to realize the amount of work a lot of students put in and don’t see the results they want. Sure you see us for the hour and a half two times a week if that and you see if we show up. You might not see the endless hours in the library the parties we might miss or the friends we put off to complete an extra credit paper. This isn’t to say that we deserve pity, we don’t this is our jobs for the next four years and we made the conscience decision to do so. I also see the professors/universities view on the matter, now Princeton is known for its high standards and excellent students. This makes me think that they are setting the bar even higher to not only prove their “toughness” but also to make a dividing line from smart and brillant. I think that a lot of the time when we are talking about discrimination or differences we neglect to talk about intelligence.
This is ironic because intelligence goes hand in hand with success and deals and is what people are age are mostly judged on today. If we are smart at what we choose to do we have a better chance of getting the job. There is a clear line between those in our age group who went to college and those of us that decided against it. this is not to say that people who decided college wasn’t for them are idiots or not smart in fact they can be more intelligent. There defintley is discrimination though when one is asked where he or she went o college and they answer nowhere. Its as if noone knows what to say after that. I think that A’s are great and if you work hard you deserve them but we focus so much on the grade that we forget about the substance behind it. We often time forget the material or don’t listen to the feedback from our professors because we are so tied up in getting an A in the first place.
In the case of Princeton, I think the bar is already set high enough for those students and if they keep pushing them they will find that most likely they will feel a sense of not belonging there when in reality they are very smart. I think that if we start looking at ourselves as grades then we will lose what the essence of college really signifies.
Although I do believe that grades are the greatest factor that separate students’ academic achievements, I also believe that they are the more ridiculous way to evaluate a student’s learning and knowledge. After going through years of schooling, I have come to the conclusion that no matter what school or what subject, every teacher is different. Every teacher expects something different from each of their students and each of them has their entirely own grading system. A piece of work that may be an “A” to one teacher can be “C” to another. To be honest, if there isn’t just one set grading system, how are we supposed to know the difference between excellent work and poor work? I believe that effort should be the greatest factor considered when a teacher is evaluating the work of a student. If this student genuinely worked to their fullest potential and took the time to actually do what was asked of them, then they deserve to be rewarded for their hard work. On the other hand, if it is clear that a student rushed through the assignment and did not put much time or effort into it, then they deserve what they worked for.
I’m an Elementary Education Major and in each one of the education classes they teach about positive and negative reinforcement and punishment. If a student does something well or does what they are asked, they should be rewarded. Therefore they know they are doing a good job and should continue what they are doing. So what happens if a student does what they are asked and works to their fullest potential but still doesn’t get the grade that they desire or even deserve? Well, the student will eventually give up. They will think to themselves, if I am putting all of this work into an assignment and can never get a good grade, then what is the point of even working hard at all? Now some educators may say that this will push a student to work harder, but I would have to disagree. I mean you obviously have to raise the stacks at some point so students are challenged because this is how we learn, but to continuously give out poor grades to students who work so hard is just flat out wrong. Everyone is going to get at least one bad grade in their lifetime. Nobody likes to get bad grades but it happens. Maybe the teacher was looking for something different in the assignment or maybe the student just slacked off. But whatever it is, the student will learn that in order to get a grade they must work harder. If they continue to work harder but are not seeing any differences in their grades, that is where there is a problem and where the learning will come to a halt.
So much emphasis is put on grades to students in high school and in college. From this, it has forced students to cheat, lie, and plagiarize their work in order to try to please the teacher and get the A. However, what students don’t realize is that grades shouldn’t really matter. What is the point of paying thousands and thousands of dollars at a University to come out with no knowledge but instead a bunch of straight As? Yes, this student might be hired right away out of school for having a high GPA, but what happens when they actually get to the workplace and have no idea what they are supposed to be doing because they cheated their entire way through school? If assignments were based on effort ratings the students would gradually learn and potentially become better students in school and better employees in the work place. Princeton’s grade-deflation policy is causing students to take less challenging courses and most likely causing them to cheat, in fear of not getting making it in that “35%”. Princeton is filled with brilliant students, why try to devalue their talents and hard work? It just doesn’t seem to make sense.
I think this is ridiculous. I do believe that overall it is about the education and not about the grades; however, it is the grades in the end that everyone looks at. If one’s GPA is low, than he will not receive as many great opportunities later on for the most part. I do not mean that it should be extremely easy for anyone to get an “A”. All I am trying to say is that people who do the work, attend class and work hard should get the grade they deserve and not a “C” for average. I do not agree with the system at Princeton. If I was accepted to Princeton and I had a choice of going, I would not go. This is because I think that it is not fair and it is ridiculous that you would not receive the grade you deserve. Instead after all the hard work you put in and spend all those hours to get the grade you deserve, you are left with just a C for following instructions and doing the hard work. What kind of a system is this? How is it fair? How is it supposed to help the students? This will only scare them away and have them give up sooner thinking that, “My hard work is probably going to go to waste anyway then what is the point of working so hard if I am going to get an average grade for all the effort I put in?” I feel that this only puts unnecessary pressure on students. Students that are diligent have no problem with working hard, but if their hard work is not going to receive any recognition, then they will only get discouraged or get overly stressed out of proportion. I do not disagree that the education received is more important than the grades, however to go farther in life after college, the GPA will definitely play a major role at least in the beginning of the students’ carrier and possible farther schooling. I do not understand the point of making the students suffer so much when they are actually working hard. If students are in a university like Princeton, then they definitely deserve to be there. If they are there, then for the most part these students are there to work hard and receive a better education. If they do the all the work that is necessary for them to receive an “A,” but do not end up receiving it only because a certain amount of people are “allowed” to receive an A then it is simply not fair in my eyes. I believe that it is true that too much emphasis is being put on grades, but that does not mean that people who work hard should not receive what they have worked so hard for.
I found the blog, “So You Think You Deserve an ‘A’, Do You?” to be interesting. As a student, I can relate to the perspectives of the other students in the New York Times article, “Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes”. I personally do not understand the satisfaction that teachers and professors receive when they fail their students or give them mediocre grades. I understand that many teachers love for their students to succeed, however there are just as many that get pleasure out of giving the students a hard time when it comes to their grades. I think that there are many factors that have to be looked at when it comes to grade assessment.
On one hand, I can understand the professors that want their students to take the extra mile to get an A. Depending upon the course, some school work seems to be simply busy work that does not make a big impact on their learning. For this caliber of work, it is annoying to go above and beyond the general guidelines. However, some assignments can be very beneficial when students get over their lazy factor. When a student takes the initiative to go beyond the instructors guidelines, they do not only get an A, but they also gain additional knowledge about the subject material. For the “hard nosed” teachers like this, the extra, beneficial knowledge that the student would gain could be their justification for being such tough graders.
However, what responsibility lies on the instructor? As young adults, it is understandable that some of the responsibility to exceed the general expectations should be up to us students to show that we took time and effort on the project; but, it is not completely fair for professors to expect extra out of their students if they are not putting forth extra themselves. If a teacher is not very enthusiastic or intuitive about the subject matter they are teaching, it is not easy for the students to want to put forth much effort. Now don’t get me wrong, not all students are the same. There are hardworking students that excel, students that do the bare minimum, slacker students that could care less, and hardworking students that do not always excel. If a student is working hard and constantly receives mediocre grades, it becomes very discouraging. I understand that it is hard to grade a student upon scale of how much effort, because depending on the assignment or class, that can not always be easily determined; however, students that work hard and take the initiative to ask questions and get help should be rewarded by their hard work. For certain universities to deflate the amount of A’s that they give out makes no sense to me. If a student deserves an A, they should receive an A. If the standards want to be raised that is fine too, but if the instructor or university wants to raise the standards, then they also need to raise their level of teaching. As a student, I have taken courses both in college and high school where I did not receive much knowledge from the instructor at all. Therefore, in order to be successful in the class, I had to work hard on my own. On top of that, for the same mediocre professor to give me a mediocre grade on something that I have been struggling to excel in, can be a slap in the face. I think more so than teachers “raising the bar” for students, they need to start with raising the bar on their teaching. There will always be those students who could care less and those who are overachievers, as well as those teachers that give good grades and those who do not.
I think it’s unfair to limit the amount of A’s that can be given out by a specific educational department. If students earn an A, then they deserve to get an A. I am a little confused as to how a university would ensure that only 35 percent of students get an A. What if 50 percent of the class aces the exam? I am not really sure how that works. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with making courses slightly more difficult in order to attempt to control grade inflation. But this does not mean limiting the amount of A’s possible; students still should get what they earn and what they deserve.
I think grades are becoming more and more important in the eyes of today’s typical student. The American mentality, for most, is to try to be better than everyone else. The student with the better grades has a better shot at succeeding in life—getting a better job, making more money, etc. I know that for me grades are very important. They make or break my mood. They are a measure of how successful I am and who I am as a student. When I try to sit back and reflect on the big picture of life, it is easy to see that grades shouldn’t be so terribly important. Yeah, they are important, but they shouldn’t the deciding factor of happiness in my life. It’s a lot easier to say this in retrospect though then to actually believe it. Especially today with the economy crisis that’s going on. The stress to get a job out of college is growing and growing, and it’s only natural to think that those who are doing the best in school will have the most opportunities to land a big job. Therefore, getting those grades becomes a big deal. And from experience, I know that there is nothing worse than putting all your effort into a class just to receive a C. And yet if that’s actually what you deserve from your scores, it’s what you should get. But if it is a C based on the fact that you just did everything that was required and nothing above and beyond the class requirement, then I think it’s bull shit.
I think that effort should definitely be a factor in a student’s grade. If the student goes to class every day, does all the assignments, participates, and the professor sees this, then it should definitely count for something. If it doesn’t, then what’s the point in trying? If effort means nothing, why put in any effort. Some people are genetically smarter than others, and some people have to work much harder to earn the same grade as those who don’t work at all, and yeah that’s life, but those working hard should get some recognition.
Not everyone is going to get an A, and that’s how it should be. But I see no need in putting a limit on the allowed number of A’s students can get, it’s simply unfair.
I’ve heard that now at elementary schools instead of the usual A, B, C, D and F system of grading, they are now employing a 1, 2, 3, 4 system. I don’t get it. I thought it was funny (not haha funny but strange funny) when our esteemed president George W. Bush passed the “No Child Left Behind” Act. This coming from a guy who was probably left behind himself a time or two. Or at least, he probably would have been in the old system of earning your grades by just knowing the stuff.
I mean really, Bush might have worked his tail end off, or he may have just copied and cheated his way into office. Either way, if students are allowed to continue to bully their teachers into giving them brownie points, we just might start seeing a lot more Bushes in positions of power. Positions where they just plain don’t belong, regardless of the amount of work they put into it. No matter how hard it tries, a dog is a dog, it just can’t be anything else. Some people just really aren’t cut out to be high-class lawyers and doctors as they would do a lot more harm than good.
I know it’s the American Dream that if you try hard enough you can do anything. And that’s true. But if someone tries really hard to become a doctor and makes it, even if they just don’t have the mind for it, they may wind up killing patients, certified or not.
I’ll admit I was upset at my first Biology exam this semester. Dr. Patterson’s testing methods were a lot harder than what I was used to. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing. More than most other professors, Dr. Patterson was able to ascertain who actually knew the material and who didn’t. He tested us a lot on stuff that was in the text book, but had not been gone over in class. The students who did well in the part of the semester he taught were the few students in this college who actually got the grade they deserved, brownie points out the window.
Maybe it’s because the head people in charge of the education systems want America to seem like we’re smarter than we really are. We have so many more college graduates than other countries who graduate with such high grades. Well that’s a nice farce, but internally… this has got to make things really hard on employers who want workers who really know what they’re doing. I’ve known my share of rich kids in the past, whose parents have such big mouths or wallets or both that their kids always seem to come out on top, whether they deserve it or not. Sometime these students find their way to the real world. And that’s when the fun begins…
The article, “Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes,” was incredibly interesting because I witness this phenomenon daily, as a student. It is true that there definitely seems to be an increased sense of entitlement among all students in the classroom but especially college students. This is a trend most likely due to particular K-12 experiences and especially the high school experience. Students have become ultra efficient in test preparation which has led them to look for a magic formula to get high scores. I know from my own experience that high school wasn’t just about strict memorization and regurgitation but also the art of achieving and maintaining high test scores, whether standardized or in the classroom. The emphasis was rarely ever on learning the subject material but rather how to implement a particular strategy if you don’t know the right answer.
Students often confuse the level of effort with the quality of work. I hear complaints daily from students who worked “SO” hard on a paper or project and for so many hours and didn’t receive the grade they expected. Many times the student will miss the entire point of the assignment but will still expect a high grade because of the level of effort. Is this a result of younger learning experiences or do these students just not get it? It seems ridiculous to me that someone would expect a high grade for low quality work whether they worked hard on it or not. That is not how it works in the professional work place and teachers must somehow get this message across to the students of today. When students enter college and have this heightened sense of entitlement, this is not the instructors’ fault. Students will often attribute the outcome of a failure to someone else: the teacher.
Professor Brower from the University of Wisconsin—Madison argues that “if students developed a genuine interest in their field, grades would take a back seat, and holistic and intrinsically motivated learning could take place.” This is, of course, very true but also utopian. Some students absolutely feel an act this way and are rewarded greatly for it but most do not look at their education this way. Grades are incredibly important to students, especially now because of rising job qualifications, much higher graduate and professional school entrance standards, and increased competitiveness among students. It is very difficult to convey to an employer that you are qualified for a job if your academic credentials are lacking, whether you really have the knowledge base to perform well at that job or not. Grades matter a lot to students and they are always trying to take on more to build their resume while cutting corners to make it happen.
First of all, I think it is absurd for any university or school to be able to put a limit on the number of A’s that are allowed to be given out per school year. If someone deserves an A but they are already at that certain percentage number of A’s that are allowed to be given out, then it is unfair for that person to receive a B just because they did not make the cut. They may have handed in A work or put forth A effort, but since it was not a good enough A and there were already too many other A’s that year, the fact that someone could receive a B for those reasons is ridiculous. Also, I do think that effort should have something to do with the grade you receive. It should be incorporated and taken more into consideration than it is currently I think because some people, no matter how hard they try or how much effort they put forth, just do not have “the brains” to know or do everything A quality. Another point to consider is how society has deemed what is appropriately considered A work and what is not? Yes there are guidelines to follow, but these “rules” have been brought up by society – what is considered superior work and what is considered a failing grade. But this also has to do with opinion. What one person put so much effort into and thought was the best paper or assignment or test they’ve ever turned in might in the teachers mind just not be good enough. But peoples different ideas of what is considered A work and what is not also has a lot to do with their past experiences and their views of the topic of whatever that assignment may have been. As stated in the article, Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes, “If your maximum effort can only be average in a teacher’s mind, then something is wrong”. This displays how one persons idea of A quality work differs from another person’s idea of A quality work, thus hindering the student the majority of the time. Not only does this obviously hinder the student in that he or she may receive B’s or C’s when they expect to earn A’s, but additionally, after a while, the student may just give up because they come to terms with the fact that their hardest efforts are just not good enough. This is not a good way for society to be educating the future leaders, entrepreneurs, and employees of America.
Ever since I started being graded in school, the overall averages have always been higher than a "c". A "c" is supposed to be the average grade, the middle of the pack, for the average student. If one were to do better than a "c" it was for good reason, that student excelled, or went above and beyond his/her peers. For the same reason, if a student didn't live up to the normal standards he/she would receive lower grades as in a "d" of "f". I don't know how this scale came to be, or the overall thought process behind it, but that was what the letter system was to be. I also don’t know if quota's initially were involved or not, but they also make much sense. Quota's make ABCDF pretty much a bell curve for the class, and/or grades overall performance. There could not and should not be more "a's" then "f's" and should mostly be "c's". Enough of that though, grade inflation is the topic here, and it just makes sense! Grade inflation is good for all parties involved, and is why it is so popular today. Grade inflation is obviously good for the students, because more of them are doing well. It is also good for the school, it makes the school look like it is teaching better than others, and accomplishing more. Also grade inflation is good for the teachers, there is less stress, easier grading, and less competition within their class rooms. Grade inflation has been taking so far now that so many schools are giving out way too many "a's". I am curious as to what will happen in the future, but I understand how and why we are in the situation with grades that we currently are. Some University's are holding on to their tough standards, but they can afford to because of how respectable the school is. For example some Ivy League schools are not giving out many "a's" at all. They can get away with this because people will always apply to these schools. They do not need to worry about enrollment. These schools also don’t have to worry about how their school is viewed, because the schools already have so much respect. Small schools, or less known schools can gain attractiveness from high school students by showing how well their students do grade wise at their school. They can gain respect because of the grade inflation. They can also build upon this and continue to gain respect among University's. This was a great idea by some schools but has got out of hand recently, and all students are doing too well at most schools. I am eager to see what happens in the future with grade inflation. Maybe "b's" will be the new "d" when my kids go to school, we will have to wait and see.
I personally think that grades are not all that important in the grand scheme of things. Too much pressure is applied by parents and individuals to get good grades, and it distorts the true purpose of getting an education, which is to learn and improve your mind. If you are truly applying yourself, and putting in the maximum effort that you can, it doesn’t matter what your final grade is. As long as you learn the material and are able to use it later in life, that is what really matters. There are plenty of people in this world who have gotten C averages in college that ended up being extremely successful in life. Take for instance former U.S. President Ronald Reagan, who attended Eureka College and graduated with a C average. Another example is our very own Sam Richards, who constantly attests that “C’s earn degrees.” You think you can tell if your dentist graduated at the top of his class or got straight C’s? Your life is what you make it, not what you earn on your report card. Sure, certain doors might be closed to you if you can’t keep up a 4.0 GPA, but if you have that special quality that puts you ahead of everyone else, you will find a way to succeed regardless.
There are certain people in America that can’t keep up an A average, regardless of the amount of work they put into their classes, but that shouldn’t discourage them from trying. With that being said, if you can’t keep up a C average at Penn State, you probably shouldn’t be in school. That doesn’t mean you can’t be successful in life though, school isn’t for everyone.
I also disagree with the students who think they are entitled to certain grades if they put in maximum effort. Just because you did your best, it doesn’t mean that your best is better than everyone else’s. There are people who can barely skim the readings, study the night before the test, and get an A. Yes, it sucks, but like I said before, grades aren’t the end all be all. These people are going to end up lost when they graduate college because they haven’t really learned anything. They just memorized what they needed to in order to get that elusive A. As long as you do your best, you should be able to get the C necessary to graduate, and people will recognize your talents when you get out into the working world. You shouldn’t strive for a C, but if you try your hardest, you’re getting all you can out of the class. Too many students today whine and bitch to their teachers about their grades. Teachers detail exactly what they plan to grade you on in their syllabi, and if you don’t follow it, that is your fault. You can’t blame your teacher because you decided to get plastered or blazed instead of doing an assignment or studying for an exam. Just remember, you only have 4 years in college, and grades aren’t as important as most people think they are.
Having almost completed my third year of college, I can fully relate to the situation involving grade inflation at the college level. It is a “problem” that has plagued universities nationwide over the past twenty or so years. But how did this become such a problem? It started at the most prestige colleges, such as the Ivy League schools, where the administrations determined it was necessary to “inflate” grades and establish curves that would make their students’ grades look better for employers and graduate school programs. However, in order to remain competitive with the students in these institutions, the administrations of other colleges, such as Penn State, began inflating its students’ grades as well. This domino effect led to the problem that exists today – grade inflation across the nation.
There are arguments for both sides of this matter, some that support the inflation and others that believe it is a false representation of a student’s performance. Those in support of the inflation believe it is necessary to better the students’ grades in order for them to look better in the eyes of employers and graduate school recruiters. However, on the other side of the issue are those that believe that inflating the grades will produce false grades, or higher grades than the students actually achieved. Nonetheless, at some point in between lies an ethical issue that must be looked at. This issue relates to the overall accuracy of grades and how this pertains to discrimination and inequity among college students.
What is meant by this discrimination is that those students who attend universities that rely on a grade inflation policy are consequently positioned higher than students of other universities due to this false representation. In other words, they are placed in a higher class, a more superior class, or smarter class, when they may not deserve to be there. The fact that their grades are inflated to look well, when they may in fact not be very good at all, positions them to succeed over students that go to other institutions and achieve the same, or sometimes better, grades.
At some point, however, it must stop. Inflating grades will benefit some students, and hurt others. This is a form of affirmative action, which we have discussed in class as being a form of discrimination and inequality. Is it right? Well, it is a difficult issue to answer. It may, perhaps, be an effective tool that can put students in tougher institutions on par with those students who may attend smaller, easier, schools. The general belief is that schools such as Harvard, Yale, Columbia University, and other Ivy League schools are tougher, and therefore, produce lower grades from its students just because its classes are much more difficult and challenging. However, critics will argue that students that attend these more prestige institutions should be set to higher standards and expected to perform better than other students; the reason these students attend these schools is because they are “smarter” than other students that were not admitted to that school. Nonetheless, this is the situation we face today and there is still no end in sight concerning the issue of grade inflation.
High school and parents put so much pressure on us students to get the highest grade we possibly can. They tell us to do what ever it takes (within reason) to get what we want… as in an A. Well that usually works in high school. Students find ways either through becoming a teacher’s pet, doing extra credit, or even just having the multiple grade-boosting assignments in order to get that good grade. But when it comes to college, students and parents need to realize that we are on a whole other level—a level above. That means that we as students should have to work even harder to get that A, not just go to class and expect to get a B, just as we would in high school.
Colleges are getting harder and harder to get into, which just increases the pressure on the students. I feel that many high school teachers give the students easier assignments every now and then just to boost their GPA so that they can get into the college of their choice. But what I have learned, though experience, is that that only hurts us in the long run. I worked my ass off in high school and went above and beyond (without the help of extra credit) to get those A’s and B’s. But the truth is that most students did not. They felt that they should just get an A for being a second semester senior in high school. Then when these students with this mindset come to college, they are so used to getting an A that they start to feel that they shouldn’t have to work as hard to actually receive it.
I also feel that there is so much pressure on students and so much information to be crammed into a semester. Many students feel that cramming the information into their brains solely to do well on the exam, and then completely forget everything later is worth it because they got that A. The same thing goes the other way: if a student works really hard to study and learn the information, and happens to do poorly on the exam, then they feel like what is the point in actually trying to broaden their education if in order to get into certain schools, programs, or jobs, a high GPA is what is important?
Now that we are on the subject of grading, I believe in extra credit. It is an opportunity for students to do something above and beyond that can help boost their grade. I mean if grades weren’t so important and getting C’s were are that mattered, then yeah I can understand why it shouldn’t be necessary. But in today’s society, grades are what matter.
I also do not approve of curving. When professors curve an exam or course, that means that a certain number of people fail and a certain number of people pass. Flat out. I feel that if the average on an exam is lower than a 70, then each person’s grade should be bumped up however many points the average was away from 70. That way everyone’s grade is boosted. Same thing should go with a 100%. If no one received a 100, then the grades should be adjusted accordingly. But no way do I feel that some people should be brutally penalized for being a little below average. And absolutely disagree on the limit of A’s that can be given. If the majority of the people in the course receive an A, then so be it. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the material was too easy, it could just mean that we understand it! Why is it that the people who make the exams feel the need to find the most difficult problems that the students may or may not have even seen before and put them on the tests? Why not test us on the stuff we have been learning? Is that just too much to ask?
Professor Brower made an interesting point in the New York Times article. He said that the sense of student entitlement “stems from their K-12 experiences.” I could not agree more. There was never a single moment in my elementary, middle or high school experience where a teacher or parent told me that a C is an okay grade. It never crossed my mind that a “C can earn a degree.” In grade school, every student started off with an A, and by not meeting the teachers requirements, your grade would decrease. However, in college this is not the case. Everyone starts off with a zero and has the opportunity to reach an A if they so choose. I found this to be one of the hardest transitions I had to make when I came to college.
I feel that one of the reasons why so many college students place such an emphasis on their grades, is because they are paying a decent amount of money to attend their university. What does a student have to show their family when they return home but their impressive GPA? If attending such a reputable (and expensive) school is so important, students are expected to work hard and in return receive grades that reflect their effort.
Reading what the professors of various Universities had to say on the topic was very interesting. However, I felt that they have very mature and almost unrealistic ideas of how an A should be earned. On one hand, Professor Bower at Wisconsin University said he tries to “re teach students about what education is.” This is an extraordinary concept, because most students assume that they just spent over 12 years learning what a proper education is, and find that they are entirely wrong. Although he has the right idea, from the student stand point it turns everything upside down. According to Bower, our k-12 experiences taught us how to manage and succeed in the academic world incorrectly. If that is the case,no one should be surprised that students flock to their professor’s offices when they do not get the grade they are accustomed to.
I’m not sure if fault lies on the K-12 school system or in the strange expectations of some professors. I feel that it is a mix of both. If a student genuinely tries to receive an A and fails, they should speak to their professor to see WHY they received a lower grade. I think that a professor should be intelligent enough to know weather a student is desperately trying to succeed, or is just desperate for a good grade.
I’ll be the first to admit that all throughout middle school and high school I did the minimum amount of work and studying I needed to get by. Don’t get me wrong, I did very well and always received good grades, with the occasional poor score on a test every once and a while. However, I really did not put all my effort into my schoolwork. I feel as though during elementary school and middle school I was never taught the correct ways to study. I never knew the correct studying methods. Once I got to high school all of the tests caught me very off guard. I was not surprised whatsoever when I read the article which stated, “A recent study found that one-third of students surveyed say they expect B’s just for attending lectures, and forty percent say they deserve a B for completing weekly reading assignments.” I agree with these students. There are some people that are just not good test-takers. If they do the readings, attend every class, and put in their best effort they should be able to earn at least a B. I am a firm believer that test scores should not count heavily towards one’s grade. It’s the effort they put in that should weigh the most. The article also mentioned an increased sense of entitlement that kids seem to have right now. I agree that increased pressure from family at home, as well as their friends, would definitely cause this increased entitlement among school-aged kids. In this week’s blog Sam mentions the idea of grade deflation. Grade deflation is a very interesting concept in my opinion. At first when I heard this idea I thought it to be absurd. I couldn’t help but wonder why schools would want their students to actually earn lower grades. Not only does it look bad for the students, it also make the school and their faculties look like they did not succeed at their job. However, as I continued reading the article located in the blog I began to understand the benefits that go along with grade deflation. I definitely understand that it would increase competition among students, forcing them to attend class regularly and work that much harder to earn the A that we all yearn for. The article also states that student employment as well as graduate school admissions greatly increased since this idea of grade deflation became active. In this economy, where is it almost impossible to not only finding a job, but also to keep an existing job, this would be very beneficial. I don’t think it’d be a bad idea at all for Penn State to adopt a similar polity. However, I am sure I don’t speak for everyone when I say it is a good idea. There are definitely a large majority of students who feel that this is an absurd policy and should never be put in place here at Penn State. Although I could see both sides of the argument, I personally feel it may be very helpful to many people.
Personally, grades have always been very important to me ever since I began going to school. With the help and my parents and friends, I was always pushed to achieve the best grades as possible, and I was told that my report card was very important, maybe "the" most important thing for me. As a result, I worked very hard throughout my years in school, and grades were my top priority. I always got A's and B's, very rarely, if ever getting C's. Because of this high bar I set for myself, sometimes I would become stressed over a specific project, test, or homework assignment that I was not sure if would be able to achieve the grade of an A, or even a B. Eventually, my parents actually had to try to explain to me that grades are not the most important thing in the world. They made sure I knew it was OK to achieve a B, or a C, and every thing would be fine. They told me as long I worked hard and tried my best, the grades will come and I will get my A's and B's. Although I believed them, it did not really help my attitude. I still wanted to get A's, and grades remained a very important part of my life, and still do to this day. A bad grade is hard pill to swallow, and the feeling of achieving an A is a especially rewarding.
The difference with college is that even if you as hard as possible, do all of the requirements, you are not guaranteed anything. You must earn your grades. As I grew up and went through years of exams, projects, and assignments, I realized that grades, or GPA, is NOT all that matters. Actually, working hard and learning the material is more beneficial than say breezing by, but getting an A. Although in college GPA is important, when trying to get a job, there are many other factors just as, or maybe even more important than a student's GPA.
However, I also feel that the level a student works, or the effort he or she puts into the class should be taken account for in his or her grade. It is very important that students attend class and complete their assignments (i.e, working hard), and as a result they should definitely be rewarded. Sometimes a student could work really hard and complete all of his or her assignments, and completely understand the material, but make a silly mistake on an exam that could cost them the A they might actually deserve. Some students are just not good at taking exams. As a result, I believe there should be some sort of reward for the student if he or she comes to class everyday, completes all assignments, participates, and works hard. Because after all, in the real world those are the most important qualities someone could have anyway. GPA is not as important.
It’s funny how much stock people put into the grades they earn. Through taking the course EDTHP 440: The Philosophy of Education with Madhu Prakash, I have come to read some very interesting things regarding the notion of grades. The use of grades in the modern school system merely promotes competition and individuality in a world where more problems would be solved if people and society made more communal, conjoined efforts. But in a world were people are obsessed with consumerism and having more, the system makes sense because people need to be better than a certain amount of others in order to get the better job and make the higher salary. If we didn’t have grades, how could we judge who deserves what job or who is better than the others? Also, from a less cynical standpoint, grades help to evaluate, not necessarily judge or define students in order to ensure the mass of students are learning the “right” stuff and meeting the specific standards. It seems such a system is the only way to take steps that achieve educational equality. I suppose that is a whole other subject though.
We live in a country where college and higher education has become viewed as an extension of high school. Students are pressured and told, “If you don’t go to college, you won’t amount to anything.” High school ends and college begins; simple as that. As this view has become more widely accepted by the majority of the American population, students merely flow with the current of social trend and action, thus enrolling at a university. More and more people are capable of being in college. Their scores are only a few points different than each other and they possess the same work ethic to achieve. They have worked hard to get here; they expect to be in the top tier. The competitiveness of education is ever more present but students cannot accept being the loser. I think that leads to a lot of people being frustrated and pleading to get the high grade. Why wouldn’t they? It’s all they’ve ever known.
So now we’re all here at college and we sit in lectures and read the books and take the tests. We have different majors and pursue different degrees in different work fields, most of which our career will not be in anyway. We become compared to each from a number, our GPA, though this person took completely different classes than the next person. The number is supposed to represent the potential of each person. Sometimes it might, but I know my personality and convictions and attitudes can’t be spelled out in numbers.
The funniest thing about all I have said, which I realize may be written illogically, is that though I know these things, have learned these things, and write these things; I’m still controlled by the grade. The fact that I have written this assignment is for two points, TWO POINTS, of a final grade. God forbid I don’t get anything less than a B in this class. My words might be hypocritical, and I know that, but I hope whoever reads them it helps to open your eyes and think about it. Email me if you have something to say: kaf5027@psu.edu.
I do believe that grades are an overemphasized part of our education system today. Too many times have I seen friends stressing out over classes or tests simply because they were upset with receiving a “B”. Grades serve their purpose in our society, but there are times when parents, teachers, and students hold too much merit in them. There are indeed students that have a false sense of entitlement. Parents and teachers are as much to blame for this problem as the students themselves. I find it ridiculous that some universities have to set a cap for how many students receive an “A”. It’s true that we don’t want to devalue an “A” but I think it should be up to the teachers to determine how their own grading systems. The increase in the amount of “A” grades given out during Dr. Richards’ tenure is probably partly due to the different grading systems of teachers, but the increase in emphasis on the important of grades is another reason why. Students haven’t gotten smarter, their work ethic and motivation has just changed. There is more emphasis on grades and thus they work harder just for the sake of getting a higher grade. Although I don’t think there should be a cap on the amount of “A” grades given out, I do disagree with the students in the New York Times article that believe the amount of effort they put forth in a class should be the sole determination of their grades. The reason I have a problem with their opinions is because grades are an important tool used to show who will do better in their perspective jobs. No matter how much effort some people put into their jobs, there is the possibility that they might not be naturally good at it. Effort should be taken into account and should factor into the grading system because it is an important characteristic of potential employees; however, talent and ability are important as well. A combination of both is needed for someone to truly succeed in life. I think that society as a whole needs to reevaluate the grading system we have because it has become clear that neither students nor adults consider a “C” grade to be average. There is a negative stigma on receiving a “C” grade in many schools. Where I grew up, most parents, teachers, and students viewed a “C” grade as severely underachieving. It nowhere near represents an average student where I grew up. The entire grading system in our society needs a massive overhaul, as do the attitudes people have towards the grading system itself. This needs to be done so that we have consistency between schools across the country. We also need to do this in order to properly emphasize the importance of enjoying what we learn, not just learning for the sake of grades.
Although I do understand that the whole grading system in schools has been the tradition for awhile now, I think that evaluating someone’s performance in a class based solely on a grade scale is unfair. There should be some other way besides the grading system to evaluate a student. For example, back in high school I wasn’t one of the top students. My average grade in high school was a high C, low B, which is average, but when it was time to take the SATs, I completely BOMBED. Just because I did poor in the SATs, I couldn’t get into a school back home that I really wanted to attend. I was so upset because I KNOW that I’m not a dumb person, I’m just not a great test taker because of my ADHD. I am smart, I mean, I’m a senior about to graduate from Penn State with a GPA of 3.2 which is great for me. I know that if I really apply myself, I can go very far. But even in high school I always tried my hardest and all because I performed poorly in my SATs that I didn’t have the opportunity to choose from different schools. The point I’m trying to make is besides just looking at a letter to determine someone’s intelligence; teachers should start noticing more of how much work students put into the class and how much they actually care about the class. If a teacher notices that a student has been receiving C’s and D’s in their tests, but always attend class, go to office hours, sit in the front of class and participate in class discussion, don’t you think the student should deserve better then a D? It’s just not fair that a student’s intelligence is labeled based on a stupid letter, but this type of grading system has been around forever so people just kind of go with the norm because we’re used to it. Now I’m not saying that we should completely eliminate the whole grading system, but I personally think there should be other factors when determining a student’s grade. And then there’s the whole politics side of things, such as professors giving athletes the A’s that they don’t deserve but they give them those grades so they can still play sports. I don’t think this happens at Penn State (at least I hope not), but I’ve heard it many times and I think that’s not fair to students who actually go to class and work their asses off and still get C’s while athletes skip all classes for practice and still get A’s. That’s a completely different issue that I can talk about forever, but I thought I would just add that. Overall, I think there is too much pressure on getting a certain letter grade, but that’s our school system, and unless someone steps up to address this issue and actually try to make a huge change in our school system, then the pressure of labeling a student with a grade will continue.
I feel as though people who work hard do deserve a grade higher than a grade of a C. What someone perceives as hard work varies from one to another, it is extremely subjective. I define hard work in college as: attending class, doing all the assignments, seeking help when not understanding the information, studying in advance for an exam and using all resources available to the student provided by the university, to help you understand the material, like a tutor. I am a true believer that hard work any day of the week outweighs pure natural untrained intelligence. Meaning that the person who is of average intelligence and does everything possible to understand the material of the class by working hard is more honorable and deserving of the A, then the person who has never done anything to excel in a class, but does. A pet-peeve of mines is when someone who does not have to study revises an A in a course and someone else, like myself who studies and puts forth tremendous effort revives a B. There have been quite a few classes that this has happened to me, and I am sure I am not the only student who this happens to. In accounting and statistics I went so far as get a tutor, I studded four hours Monday through Friday for both of those classes, not including the 2 hr class periods and still only passed with B-, while my tutor who never had seen the information in my accounting class read English assignments during class revived an A, because of his natural ability. For me it is not always about the student understanding the information, but the effort that they put forth. If I was graded on the effort I put forth I defiantly would have a 4.0.
Also, I do not agree with standardized exams. I feel as though the SAT is not at all an indication of how a student will do in college. To me it is now the character letters that are placed on a person’s transcript and their standardized scores that hold a person accountable of their abilities but, rather it is the character of the person that indicates if the person will succeed in life. Sure the person who puts forth no effort and received A’s all throughout high school and a perfect score on the SAT should do fine in college but , what happens to that person when they are in the working world and they are presented with challenges, then what? I predict they will fail, because they are not prepared, college failed them it has not prepared them for a challenge and isn’t that what college is all about preparing the student for life after academia. To the person who is a hard workers and strives for perfection by studding and being challenged by academics, even if that person did not do as well as the fortunate natural book smart individual, I am sure that this person will come prepared into the working world and wont fail when challenged.
Recently, I took the LSAT, which is the admissions exam to get into law school. I am the type of person who must strive for the A, putting forth all effort and yet still sometimes falling short of my expectations to earn an A in class. Just like I prepare for my classes, I studied for the LSAT, for almost a year I studied; I took two Kaplan classes, and spent my winter break studying at least six hours a day for the exam; all to take the exam and fall short. At first, my score discouraged me, but then I realized if I gave up after all the work I had put into it, then I would be falling myself. In spite of my realization, I am back at it, preparing for the exam. After reading this article and thinking it over, I wonder if the person who posses natural un trained intelligence were up against something similarly challenging to them, like the LSAT is to me, if they would continue to work towards their goal; even after they failed despite their time and effort they had put into it? I can almost guarantee they probably would not.
I am not an average C student, even if sometimes my transcripts say other. I am far from average, my ability to work hard and strong effort in all that I do make me in my eyes an A student. As far as all the universities who restrict the amount of A’s they give out per semester, it just goes to show that the increase in students grades, is true testimony to my point that many book smart students are lazy, and only now when they are threatened and they know simply being smart wont ensure their A, do they work for their grades. Regardless, of the restriction of grades, I believe that the whole grading system, being based on test alone is one of the biggest problems with education. In many ways it fails both the ‘effortless’ students by not preparing and challenging them, and the ‘effort’ students who are discouraged of the clearly unfair standards in education. I do not understand, why if society is constantly evolving and changing to conform to today’s intelligent world, why are we still forced to abide by a historic grading system that is harmful and unjust?
After reading the article, it was little disturbing just because that there shouldn’t be the percentage of students to get A for the grade. Of course it’s important to get A to get a good job in the future. Then why wouldn’t any student want to get a good grade. Good grades usually mean that student is on top of things, do their work and possibly smart. I would guess that the reason why students work harder and wants a good grade is because since now grade matters a lot and it would be really hard for students who graduated with average grade of C won’t get a good chance of getting the jobs they want. I mean if I can take the easy course to raise my grade average up, I will do it. Just because at the fact that I would like to see better grade on my report card. For the title I didn’t feel the same way. It’s not like all the students feel like they deserve it. It’s just that if they worked hard, they would have felt like maybe what they got now isn’t what they thought they would. It’s like when they are in the same position as a student I’m sure anyone would understand it. The university shouldn’t make the course harder so that there would be less A on the class. I mean I’m sure the professor’s grade policy would fit the class and the students who got A on that class probably read the whole syllabus and was on top of the class. I think students deserve A if they followed the class grade policy and did all the work before the deadline. There shouldn’t be the percentage of students who can get A and every other students would get the lower grade even though they did what the syllabus and all the work before the deadline. It should be a good sign to see for higher grade students in university because it does mean that they worked hard. Quote from the Harvard student made me little uncomfortable just because it’s his choice to give the note he took to anyone if they ask. He didn’t have to think about it then I don’t get why he even gave it the person who asked. And for picking easy classes and afraid of taking hard classes is true. But, everyone has to take the courses that is require for them. No one is going to have the easy way out in college and graduate with a major because every major will have some at least one hard class and rather student want it or not they have to take it to graduate. So, I think that for the student who got A probably deserves and I’m sure they worked really really hard for it too.
I have mixed feelings about grade inflation and deflation. A diploma reflects the fact that an individual has not only successfully completed a program, but also has developed certain skills relevant to the field of study. If an individual graduates with a math degree, I would hope that he or she could solve a basic proof. Tuition payments should not replace work as a requirement for good grades.
College and higher education in general should be about learning, the pursuit of knowledge. People who do not want to learn should not go back to school. The negative stigma attached to individuals who have not attended college is unfair. College is costly and not for everyone. Investment bankers, actors, plumbers, restaurateurs, paralegals and others do well without university degrees. The film Good Will Hunting gave a great argument against going to college, but most people do not have the title character’s discipline to self-educate.
Grades should reflect knowledge of subject material and the difficulty of a course. It should be easier to get an A in Statistics at Delaware County Community College than it is at Penn State University, than it is at University of Pennsylvania.
At the same time, when the material is not integral to one’s life work, why bother with grades at all? Penn State’s kinesiology department decided to seriously curve grades this semester. I dropped out of a ballroom dance class in the first week because, according to the instructor, it would be graded based on talent and natural ability. There would be more Cs in the class than Bs or As. That is ludicrous, considering the fact that every student has a physical education requirement. It will seriously hurt many students grade point averages.
Also, how are students supposed to be evaluated when it comes time for graduate, law, or medical schools when grading not only differs school to school, but department to department and teacher to teacher? Students at the (inferior school) University at Buffalo all look like shining stars because of grade inflation. More students from UB go on to receive their law degrees from Ivy League schools than Penn State because more students are accepted to those schools because more appear to be exceptional candidates. It is a slippery and unfair slope.
Either all schools should inflate or all schools should not. If one school were to try to fight it with deflation, the students would be the ones penalized. What matters, in the end, is not what the grades are, but whether the students graduating earned their degrees, whether they left college as better people. Any professor can tell how his or her students fared from the semester’s beginning to end. If they improved, that is what matters.
I feel as though the entire concept of grades is a skewed idea. If you ask most people in a class, why they studied for twelve hours for an exam the majority would probably equate it to wanting to get a good grade; rarely will you hear because I was interested in learning as much information as I possibly could about the subject for my own personal gain. When grades are incorporated into the equation of education, the passing of information from teacher to student does not occur in the most beneficial way possible because suddenly the grade and not the information is the most important thing. Grades are clearly an extrinsic motivation for the education, but what we really want is for students to value the information they are receiving; to make the desire to learn intrinsic. The schools in the article are seeing either an increase in the number of A’s being rewarded, or a decrease depending on the university, but I feel like grades are being viewed in a blurred light. Isn’t the most important part of going to school learning? I hate to admit it but when I study for a test I learn the information for that day and then after I receive my grade move on to the next topic, I have no desire to instill the information I have gained now that the test has past. For this reason it would seem that it would be much more beneficial if we stopped focusing so much on grades and more on intrinsically motivating students to do well, we want them to want to learn. I understand that there has to be some way to evaluate whether learning has occurred, but the weight of grades, especially in the university setting is overpowering, it becomes the primary motivator. To most, school is pretty much a game, if you can learn what a teacher wants and meet those expectations than you will get a decent grade. Knowing this many students will do the bare minimum to attain the grade they desire. Consequently, this lack of motivation apart from grades creates a type of temporary retaining of information that does not seem beneficial to our future careers. Now think of a class that you really enjoy. It might not be your easiest class, but you are willing to work at it and learn additional information on your own because you find it interesting. This type of thinking would be ideal for all classes. Also every teacher values an “A” differently, so how can we place every student on a spectrum of five letter grades and think that all “A”s are equal in value? Likewise, some students are simply not good test takers and, like the article suggested, if a student knows that their very best is a “C” in their teachers eyes then they are not going to be motivated to try any harder. Therefore, we argue over the number of A’s students are receiving across the country but it would seen that the real question is, is there a better way to motivate students to learn apart from grades?
I guess this is the first time I am okay with saying that I am a sheep in society. I believe grades are important. I hate hearing the saying “C’s earn degrees” because they do, but not mentionable ones, or ones to be proud of. There is a difference between different letter grades of C’s. Sam, in class talks about not caring about taking notes and not worrying. That I do not agree with. You are in school to learn. You should be trying to learn and trying to achieve a goal of obtaining good grades. However, there are C’s that are still graded after a student puts all of their effort into a project, just as the article “Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes. “ To those students I say good for you for going forth and fighting for your grade. If you know you tried your hardest then what is to stop you from going to discuss with a teacher why you got graded the way you did. Even if the grade does not change, at least you are still informed as to how you can fix and prepare yourself for next time. I feel as if the article and Sam at times can be hypocritical. If grades do not matter then why does it matter if we want an A? Why does that automatically mean C’s are the way to go? For example, if a student works really hard and studies their ass off for a test, then why give them a C? If grades do not matter then give them a grade for their effort. Give them their deserved A, or B plus. The only thing that I do agree with in the article is that the pressures of life play a huge role in that want for an A. For example, parents from the start are always pushing their kids to work their hardest and do their best in school. I have not met one parent who is okay with their kids getting C’s or D’s. As a child grows up it becomes ingrained in their mind about doing well and pleasing their parents, and then ultimately pleasing society. A’s are the way to do that. Also, because of the way society works when a student has a good report card or GPA they benefit from it. It helps them succeed more in life and it gives them a sense of confidence for doing a job well done. It is difficult for me to say, but I can see the other side. It is society that molded students this way. It is what we are born into that creates these wants and desires to do “well” in school. I, however, do not see what is wrong. If anything the idea of a person working hard and being rewarded for their efforts is not a bad thing that society has set up. Students may assume that they should be getting better grades than they are because they set higher standards for themselves. So how are they wrong to argue to get what they feel they deserve. Granted, I am not saying that a teacher or professor is not allowed to disagree, but I think the article loses its sense when it makes the claim that students feel entitled. My question is, well why shouldn’t we?
I most definitely agree with the proposition that inflated grades are on the rise. In my high school on Long Island obtaining admission into an Advance Placement class was not by merit, but by a phone call from your concerned mother. Those who felt entitled, gained entrance, and those who did not know they could use this were left behind. Although the course selection guide stated that entrance to these higher level courses were by department selection and teacher recommendation, the privileged students knew that all you had to do was have your mother call your guidance counselor and change your enrollment. Furthermore, if you have received an unsatisfactory grade in that class another phone call from your concerned mother would also change that.
The few privileged children who knew about this would without a doubt, use it to benefit themselves. It later gained them acceptances into top colleges and universities across the nation. It is not to say that these individuals were not academically talented, but they took part in an old underhanded move known as padding the stats! These same children have grown to young adults and are attending colleges and universities across the United States and have left their mothers behind and must now use themselves. They go to their professors to bitch and complain because they feel as if they deserve a higher grade. In some cases, the student may be successful or unsuccessful, but this does not change their persistence. I am pretty sure they do not allow one unsuccessful attempt deter them from attempting it again in the future.
This sense of entitlement did not just start with their entrance to college, but with the demands of their parents. Paying extremely high taxes to a very wealthy district gave mothers a sense of entitlement. Which intern, gave their offspring a sense of entitlement. And just to take a wild guess, but most likely the individuals who are complaining about their grades are the rich kids. A sense of entitlement does not come out of the air. It is engrained into the child of privilege from birth!
But on the other side of the argument, I have actually argued grades before. I didn’t do it because I felt a sense of entitlement due to the work I actually did, but I felt as if the professor should take another look at the work. I didn’t use the fact that I had worked extremely hard as a point to validate my argument (even if this was the case). At a young age we were always taught that if you work hard you will be rewarded. And by working hard we as students should be rewarded, but if it is unsatisfactory work then we should be old enough to recognize and improve. Finally, an A for effort is not always the case, and that mindset should be partially abandoned. An A is rewarded for effort and quality. As grim as it may sound, trying isn’t always enough.
The first thing that came into mind when reading this article is “and you wonder why students place so much emphasis on grades and not on learning.” To be honest, there are actually very few things that I can remember from my classes last semester much less classes in high school. And I wouldn’t even consider myself to be a lazy student. I mean I attend nearly all my classes and do the reading and be and do not wait until the last minute to start studying for my tests. But these days given the state of the economy and tough job market, the emphasis really is placed on grades. And if I attend all classes, yeah, I do expect a grade better than a “C.” I don’t really understand where teachers get off thinking that a “C” is a good grade in their class. Um, we pay all this money to get jobs and C’s def earn degrees but they won’t get you a job in this day. If I work hard (as in go to class, read and study), I certainly won’t be happy with a C.
Apparently as my mom told me back in the day she had to work her butt off for an A and I mean like work even in middle school. An “A” then was only for extraordinarily outstanding work and getting a “B” was still very good. Whereas today pretty much anything less than an “A” (unless you’re an engineering major) is not good enough.
Of course I have no doubt like the student in the cartoon are largely undeserving of an A grade and in the case of slackers whose habits got them “A’s” in high school, I do think that some professors need to be like the one in the article and give them “C’s.” I don’t think if you study the night before a test you’re worthy of getting A’s.
As for letting people copy my notes or asking for the fill-in-the-blank answers um no way man. Not even for my friends. Why should I share the work I did with you when you just didn’t want to get out of bed and walk to class. I’m more giving if the person is sick, but even so, why don’t you just go talk to the professor and really, just how sick were you? Because a runny nose isn’t a good excuse for missing class.
Furthermore, with all the emphasis that people above us are putting on grades (professors, parents, employers) it’s no wonder I freak out when I get even a B on the test. The first thing I automatically think is, “Oh my goodness a B in a four credit class is going to kill my GPA. Great, now I won’t get a job. I’m to worried about just memorizing or doing whatever I need to do for the grade that I’m not really taking time to thoroughly process and truly learn.
It took me awhile to understand what this article was really asking. And once I figured it out, I became quite angry. I, myself am going through some of the same struggles as some as the students quoted in the article. Maybe there is a grade entitlement era going, but perhaps some of the teacher’s grade unfair, or are poor quality teachers. I believe a good professor motivates his or her students to learn. No matter how boring the subject is. This means if it’s a boring subject, you need to enhance the class style. I took chem. 110 my fall of freshman year, and actually enjoyed it. Our teacher used clickers and made the class very interactive, and she had a good attitude. She wanted us all to earn good grades. She didn’t make the material any easier, she just made the style of learning better. Using the clicker also encouraged more students to go to class, because there was bonus points for going since the clicker showed that you were at class. In the end I did very well in this class, and chem. 110 can be very challenging for some freshman. So now it’s my second half of sophomore year and I’m experiencing some of the worst teachers ever, and their teaching styles have taken a toll on my grades. I’m smart enough, I try hard enough, yet the highest grade I’ve earned on a physics exam is a 61%. So if I try and try again and don’t succeed, is a C in a course really my reward? I think some of the teachers in big research schools care more about the research their working on, and less on the actual material their teaching the students. For example, some teachers barely speak English. How are students supposed to be motivated to go to class if their professor can’t even speak some basic English words? How did these people even get hired? The class average for my physics exam was a 55 percent. Does that reflect the students or the teachers? In my opinion, it’s the teachers. I didn’t go to college to have to learn physics AND decipher what English words my professors are even saying. So this is why students think they’re entitled. They’re trying and trying and the system doesn’t let them succeed. I know that many people feel the same way that I do. And I think it’s funny that article was written by people who have been out of college for years. They do not know what it’s like to be in college in this current time period, so I don’t think they’re qualified in discussing this issue. How do they know it is grade entitlement, if they’ve never worked their hardest in a course yet couldn’t get higher then a D on an exam? I think this entire article was baloney, and was coming from an uneducated opinion.
I see no problem in professors giving bad grades as long as they provide evidence as to why it was low. In the case of multiple choice exams or questions that have a concrete answer, this is simple. However, I have been in situations where I received a relatively low grade, compared the assignment to a classmate’s, and could not see where I went wrong. There are opportunities to meet with the teacher but sometimes with the subjectivity of grading, it is not a mistake that can be reconciled.
I definitely believe that there should be a change in the way grades are rewarded. I admit that since being in college, I am not working to learn. I am working to earn the best grade I can and often times that means cramming or even coordinating with my peers. This semester, I am in a class that meets Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I have not attended the Monday/Friday section since the first week of classes. Luckily, I know enough people in the class to pull it off. The grade is based on a series of online quizzes for which I work with multiple friends to complete. My attendance to Wednesday discussion class guarantees me an A. Learning is not even something I think about as I work toward completing this course and sadly, this is how it is for many classes and for many people I know. Given, these courses tend to be general education requirements but that is no excuse for me to slack off… thousands of dollars worth. It should be harder to earn an A. These days, a college degree is essential in having a successful career. This “ticket to success” should not be handed out to anyone who shows up and does the bare minimum. Not only that, but grades should be awarded based on something beyond examinations. A student should provide evidence they understand a subject.
Unfortunately, there are always going to be professors with higher expectations and subject matters that are easier to grasp than others. I am not so sure that will ever be able to be completely standardized across the board. That is why there needs to be different levels of academic measurement as well as a gauge of motivation.
With a major in advertising it is not likely that my future employer is going to care as much about my GPA as they will the experience I’ve had through internships. The College of Communications here at Penn State places a heavy emphasis on the importance of internships but I know this is not the case with all majors as well as will many universities. Not to mention an internship for my major is also not required. I feel that all college students should be required to have an internship. That way they will be able to acquire experience in the field in which they will potentially pursue a career.
C's get degrees too!
This article on limiting the amount of A’s given to students makes me angry. To inform students that it doesn’t matter how hard they work, they probably won’t receive an A regardless, is just going to stifle them. It reminds me of the say “C’s get degrees”. It will push students to feel like a C is good enough because that will have become the overwhelming average.
It angers me to know that professors are told to limit the amount of A’s they give out. With the economy being so bad, students will never get jobs if all the universities decide to follow this mentality. There will only be a slim number of in the student population who could boost have a high GPA and place it on their resumes. I thought students went to college to get good jobs, not just waste their time and money on getting poor grades regardless how hard they try in their classes.
I can just image how different my college education would have been had professors refused to give me A’s on my papers and large projects because their were a few students in the class who had done better in the eyes of the professor. My GPA would be very poor and I would hate school. I personally don’t enter a class thinking I can just go through the motions and get a B. My normal intuition is to do all the things required by the class in the best manner I can. I’m sure more then half college population feels the same way.
Does this mean that our generation is going to be under education and have to high expectations for the rest of their life? Maybe for some of us that will be the case. However, I believe that most people enter college with the desire to learn something to better their life later on. There are those students who don’t try and drink lots but the general population knows they have to put work in to do well. I just wish we could get rewarded for all our hard work.
I guess having limited A’s would make it feel like a more exclusive club of some sort. However, for those students who try as hard as they can and still can only get B’s, the reduction of good grades would put a world of hurt on their college career.
This type of issue reminds me of giving full rides to students of different ethnicities who don’t really deserve it in comparison to some of the other students who apply. When my father was in school at Carnegie Mellon, a ridiculous amount of black students where given full rides to fulfill the college’s need for minorities. However, most of them were unable to cut it and failed out because they were accepted not because of their grades but because of the color of their skin. Who’s to say someone is more fit for a full ride or good grades? Their determination, effort, and knowledge should determine these things.
I’ve always noticed things like this occurring in class after class that I’ve taken throughout the years, even in high school. People think they should be rewarded for just attending class and “trying real hard”, rather than what their scores and performance actually say they should receive. I’ve seen girls in my high school courses cry their way into a higher grade, literally. I’ve even seen athletes in various classes receive higher grades than their efforts even reflect because the coach taught the class. People seem to just expect things, and it seems like teachers are willing, for the most part, to endorse this idea.
As far as students expecting to simply show up to courses and receive at least a B for being a body in a chair, that just seems ridiculous. I’ve attended many a class (and done it myself on more than one occasion) and witnessed a sleeper in the seat next to me. Going to class, especially if you’re just going to disengage and just hang around in case an “in-class assignment” is administered does NOT count as effort. I’d be willing to bet that many students that complain about attending every lecture and still not able to perform up to “A” standards are not putting forth as much effort as they would tell you.
I’ve always been taught by my parents that if I put forth my maximum effort (whatever that really means), there’s no reason I shouldn’t be able to do well. If I gave something my all, I could get a good grade. But my parents also said that if I could honestly say a “C” was my best effort, that would be acceptable as long as I tried my hardest. For some people, it seems, that’s just not good enough. If they really try at something, they expect to be rewarded with an A.
But where does this mentality lead to? I’m sure that nearly everybody (although, by all means, not all) that attend medical school are busting their tails to become doctors. They’re all trying really, really hard. But if you give every single one of them an A and send them on their way, what are you really accomplishing? You’re putting a knife into the hands of someone who might not be the most capable of using it. Sometimes, just because you try really hard, it’s simply just not good enough.
But this is not a negative thing. This encourages the truly qualified people to work very hard to succeed. It requires people with natural talent to apply themselves and put effort into things. It should inspire people to work to do their best, not to complain about getting “less than they deserve.”
It is natural for someone to expect a good return on something in which he or she put a lot of effort into. Working hard and being satisfied with a mediocre result just do not go together. Therefore, it only makes sense when students dispute their low grades after putting in a lot of effort and work into an assignment. However, hard work and effort should not equate to getting a good grade on an assignment. A teacher should assign grades on an objective basis and on the quality of the work, not on the effort put into it. If grades were distributed based on effort then almost everyone in the class would receive an “A.”
In my opinion, the rise of grades in the past 20 years can be attributed to several factors such as teachers wanting to make themselves look good, to teachers wanting to make their universities look good, to teachers just overall being easier on students. Also, teachers may not want to go through the hassle of explaining a grade to a student, or they want students to like them, so they give them good grades. In addition, the current downturn of the economy could be causing teachers to hand out better grades so that their students can land jobs after college.
Even though grades are rising and more “A’s” are being given out than in past years, I feel that universities should not take measures to limit the number of high grades like Princeton University is doing. By limiting the number of high grades handed out to students, teachers may actually give a lower grade to a student than he or she deserves. Hence, putting the pressure on teachers to give out only a certain number of “A’s” can have negative results and in turn, can be detrimental to a university. Essentially, putting a maximum on the number of “A’s” a class can receive is not fair to the students or the teachers. This maximum can prevent a student from receiving the grade that they should get, and it can alter the way in which a teacher grades assignments.
In the article entitled “Students Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes,” Professor Brower brings up a valid point. Professor Brower mentions that if students had a real interest in their studies then they would not worry so much about their grades, and instead care more about learning. Unfortunately, many students in today’s society are only worried about their grades and getting a good job after college, rather than being interested in their classes and wanting to gain knowledge about different things. The pressure to succeed and get a high-paying job after college has led students to only caring about the grade they get and not caring about the material they are learning.
It's funny that this blog was about the grading system and how students view grades. I have had this talk with many people such as my girlfriend, closest friends, and family. I believe the grading system in the education system teaches students how to get an “A” instead of teaching them the valuable material and knowledge that can be used later on in life. Take our Soc class for example. I am excited about coming to lecture because all I have to do is sit and listen to Sam speak and I will recall pretty much everything from that lecture because he gives us the opportunity to think. In other classes, I copy down notes verbatim of what the professor says just in case it might be on the exam. I'm not really learning anything. I'm just going to cram the night before, remember everything for the test and forget everything two days later. I think the education system needs to be revamped immediately. For some of my classes at Penn State, I never attended lecture and received higher than a “B” in the class. How could I possibly do this since I wasn't learning the material in class? Well, the professor posts all the notes online, gave practice exams, and had a review session the day before the exam. I simply didn't attend that class all year until the day before the exam where I would be at the review session, find out what I needed to know, I went home and memorized the lectures and figured out how to do everything and received an “A” on the exam. Five weeks of lecture (15 classes) in about four hours. Aced the exam. That makes no sense to me. Honestly, students need to stop bitching and stressing about grades so much. It makes me sick. I have a 3.1 GPA, and I received the same internship as people who had a 4.0. I have way more valuable things to do with my time. I spent a lot of my college career learning about things that weren't in my classes because I was generally interested in the subject. Classes should be more interesting so students can go and learn and your life shouldn't really depend on your GPA. Just because someone has a 4.0 because he was a frequent studier doesn't mean he will do well in the workforce. It doesn't mean he has a creative mind. It doesn't mean he has people skills. I also find it insane that a student can attend a professor's office hours and talk his way into getting a better grade. How is that fair? Just because someone wants to brown nose a little shouldn't mean that they should receive a higher grade for it. The education system can be so corrupt.
I’m not completely sure how I feel about the concept of grades and grade deflation and inflation, because as a student I need those grades to graduate and I also want to get good grades like A’s and B’s. I won’t lie life would be a lot less stressful if there were no grades but then there would be no way to determine an individual’s qualification when compared to another. Isn’t that what life is all about, ranking ourselves against our peers to feel better and above others? It shouldn’t be but as humans we have an obsession with our status so we argue and fret for grades that are really nothing more than a few glorified letters of the alphabet.
However being that we are humans and care about grades, I do not agree with the idea that if you do all the work you are just average. In my education experiences I’ve noticed that the average number of students do not meet all the criteria. The majority of students in most classes consist of three types of students. First, is the “average student”, they don’t stand out. They don’t want much attention and are content with average grades. The “average student” is not lazy or dumb, they just are not going to exert any extra effort into an assignment than they feel is necessary because they know their strengths, and while it’s not outstanding it gets the job done. Then there are the “overachievers” who do everything they are told, all assignments are on time if not early, and they never miss a class. More than likely “the overachiever” has a very stressful life trying to be the best while proving to themselves, as well as their parents and whoever else is putting large amounts of pressure on them that they can do well. A nightmare for “the overachiever” would be a B+ on any one assignment, leading to an intense panic attack that they will never get into college or get a job, basically feeling that their life is over. Finally there are “the slackers” these are the students that barely show up to class, and don’t ever think about their classes outside of the class. The days they come to class they are probably asleep, or listening to an iPod.
These are the stereotypical students at every school, however in college “the slacker” and “the average” students seem to be closer to “the overachiever” than they were in high school. The range of difference isn’t as large making no one stand out, therefore everyone seems average. But the effort is still there and deserves the credit for it. I don’t believe everyone should get an A for everything but I don’t believe in limiting the number of them just because times and standards are changing.
Grade inflation is a topic that I have discussed thoroughly in another one of my classes. A’s and B’s are now accounting for the vast majority of grades, even though C is supposed to be “average”. I believe that grade inflation is something that needs to be addressed at more of a national scale. While it is encouraging that Princeton is attempting to solve the problem, it is possible that it could prove to be a disadvantage for graduating students and their job prospects. For example, is a 3.2 GPA at Princeton comparable or even better than a 3.7 GPA at Harvard? While employers will undoubtedly be impressed with Princeton’s stricter grading policies, will they really employ students with almost a full grade worse?
One of the problems with grade inflation is that students have a sense of entitlement now that they didn’t before. From the beginning of our lives it has been ground into our brains that if we try hard, that is all that we can do. This is echoed by the sentiment of Jason Greenwood, who explains that “If someone goes to every class and reads every chapter in the book and does everything the teacher asks of them and more, then they should be getting an A like their effort deserves.” While this is a nice thing to want, at some point shouldn’t being intelligent and knowing the material be more important than simply giving it your all.
The main problem with grade inflation is that grades, especially in college are viewed as irrelevant by employers. What is the point of going to school and studying hard if the people you are looking to impress are not at all impressed with good grades? It is tough for employers because they do not know what to believe in terms of grades. It is possible that one student can be extremely bright and a hard worker to end up with a 3.5 GPA. It is also possible that there is another student who can coast through easy classes, copy notes, and cheat on tests to end up with a similar GPA. While it is obvious which one is the better student, it is extremely difficult, even impossible for employers to differentiate the two.
I would like to propose that a committee get together and explore the different options to solve the current problem. One idea would be for universities to impose a mandated “C is Average” policy. It would be like scaling, except scaling down so that there is an equal number of students getting better and worse than a C. The obvious flaw with this is that if a student earns a B and receives a C, there would be uproar. I am not sure what can be done to solve this problem, but something does need to be done.
Grade inflation is definitely an issue across America: I have seen it take place at my high school, and I have seen it take place here at Penn State. However, I believe that there is no easy answer to this problem. In terms of setting a quota of how many students can get A’s, B’s, etc., I think this is absolutely ridiculous and is in no way the proper solution to this problem. Although this system may help lower the occurrence of grade inflation, this system also implies that even if every student turned in a paper or project of an equal or identical quality to that of another student, not all of these individuals would receive the same grade.
I think a better solution to solving grade inflation, would be to take the emphasis off achieving “good grades,” and to shift the focus back to teachers helping their students to learn and to grow to become lifelong learners. As a result, I believe that grades would naturally fall into place. The students who demonstrate great effort and desire to learn, would by virtue be the ones receiving the good grades (and will also take more away from their education). I think the emphasis placed on getting good grades has been detrimental to a student’s ability to truly learn information. What I mean by this is that students today are no longer learning how to interpret information; they are learning how to memorize information and spit it back word for word on a test.
This idea brings up another point. I think one of the worst possible ways to test a student’s knowledge is by way of a multiple choice test. I believe that this format of an exam only tests a student’s ability to memorize. And even worse than that… students can simply infer answers from recognition without even having to memorize information. A student who learns in this way will forget the majority of the information after the test is completed. Unfortunately, multiple choice tests are also the form of test most commonly used at Penn State. This brings up the question as to what is the true quality of our education. I understand the argument that many individuals offer in response to this point (“it’s a large university, what did you expect?”), but I still think this is something administrators should at least consider. I am also not, however, saying that multiple choice tests should be eliminated in their entirety. I think the key to testing a student’s knowledge, is providing a wide range of formats of evaluations. For example a multiple choice test might be perfect for testing preliminary knowledge; however, as a student learns more about a topic, presentations and group projects might be much more appropriate.
I don’t think I have ever heard a student think they should at least get a B in the class because the came to every class and did all the readings. I think that makes no sense at all. I believe that going to every class and doing all the reading will in the long run benefit you when it’s time to take the test. I think that if you work really hard and put your all into your work, the professor should take that into consideration when doing grades. I’m not saying that if you worked your but off and got a D on the assignment, the professor should give you an A because that would be just ridiculous. If the same situation occurred and the professor gave you a C I would agree with that. Everyone is not good at everything and some classes you will try your hardest and still not get an A or B, but some classes a student has to take. Most students have to take a few classes that are not related to their major and the will work their hardest to get a good grade, in those is cases is when I think the professors should boost the grade up a little for all of the hard wok an effort. I think that students can’t take a really deep interest in their major because their focus is on their grades. I agree that it would be great if a student could really get interested and really understand their major and enjoy it, but students can’t because getting a good grade gets in the way. I think students look at it as in order to get a good job and graduate I have to have good grades. Students feel like if they don’t get good grades they won’t make it in life and they won’t be successful.
This argument is very much a two way street. On the one hand, I do believe that a lot of teachers go on power trips and get caught up in strict grades instead of strict learning. What I mean by that is that their criteria for getting an A or getting a good grade is too specific, down to the minor detail, which detracts students from learning and pushes them towards memorizing. For instance, let’s say a student receives a grade of 89.6% and needs a 90% to get an A. Let’s also say that the student beat average score of every exam by a considerable number, did well on their papers, and participated in class. If the teacher in this situation refuses to give the student their A, I believe that this is crazy. The teacher is basically telling all their students that their grading system is so perfect that they can evaluate a students performance down to less than a half percent. If the student has proof to show that they have put forth maximum effort AND learned an above average amount, then I believe the teachers do need to listen to their case and re-evaluate their grading. If the student’s grades were inconsistent, or consistently declining and the student did not regularly attend class or participate, then they have no case. A took a Spanish class recently that I believe had the perfect evaluation of student performance. The teacher would never speak of grades and the syllabus only roughly outlined how the grading system worked. Our papers and exams had grades on them, but when kids complained or worried about bad grades, the teacher would always tell them not to worry, that if they came to class everyday and learned, they would get the grade they deserved. At the end of the semester, the teacher took all of the papers and exams and evaluated everyone’s in class performance. She took into account how students improved from beginning to end and how involved they were. The grades were simply her base, but if a student was getting a grade she didn’t believe they deserved, the teacher would adjust it accordingly. With this said, you couldn’t simply bomb all of your exams and papers and just seem like you were trying hard and still get an A. Yet the students that were close to A’s grade wise who consistently improved and had shown that they really learned the material got the A they wanted. Grades can’t be so strict. The goal of a class has unfortunately become to get a good grade when it should be to learn.
On the other side of the street, it is almost comical how many students really do feel entitled to good grades just because they did the work. The teacher lays out every assignment and tells students to come to class. This is the MINIMUM requirement. For that, you absolutely deserve an average grade (a C). If you could get an A just by doing all of the work, everyone would get A’s. There has to be a way to distinguish between the students. I think that in high school there is often a systematic way to get good grades. When this changes in college, students who got good grades in high school start to do a little worse and I believe this is where the entitlement comes in. They are used to the system. They need to learn that some classes require actual learning, not regurgitation. Teachers need to learn that they aren’t perfect either. If we could all just meet in the middle, I think the results would be nice.
I see this as a sign of kids not coming to the realization that they are not properly prepared for the competitive environment and have just gotten greedy. I do not mean that I am the perfect student; I have flaws that I have recognized. There is just so much flexibility for interpretation. Not that I do not like interpretation. However it does make, as Sam said, people come to choose the easy classes for their easy A’s. This is a very simple problem with a complicated answer. Basically we have a system that makes people want A’s, and another system where the grade A is variable per teacher. However these A systems are not what make people smart. This only shows that people have adapted to the wants of the professors possibly without teaching them anything. It pushes everything off of the actual learning part and instead focuses on the ability to get a high grade. These are two different things of course. Is this what we want? Complainers will be complainers. There will always be them as long as there is leeway for interpretation for the possibility of a higher rank among peers.
I wonder if the way to solve this is to actually cap the amount of A students. This poses a ranking system that is better defined. If A students make up 35%, then what happens to the B students who are actually just as capable as the lower end of the A students? The B students will be hurt more because it makes finding jobs and interviews much harder. Though this pressure might be good for the sake of making people actually “better” than others. However it will just make the best test takers better, of course, mixed with the smartest people. What happens to the people who are not cut out for the competitive world, but are very smart? What happens to the person who comes to college to take the challenges head on instead of taking easy classes and getting A’s? Are we going to fix the system by putting more pressure on students? What if that inhibits actual learning and instead promotes short-term-rote-memorization? There must be a better way to fix this system.
I wish I knew the answer to it though. I have always wanted to look into those schools where the students actually just learn on their own. It is interesting to know that children have the basic instinct to learn and want to learn math, science, and language arts. I feel that within that system there is something worth gold. I think that the problem is perception. When these kids grow up I believe that they will want to learn for the sake of learning, and build up tolerance for those things they do not want to learn. However many people just strive for the highest grade for the lowest amount of work. We do not peruse things for just the sake of interest anymore, and I think it is sad. I can say that I know this because I have been guilty of this practice, and though it isn’t the most honorable, we are just trying to get ahead like everyone else. But… haven’t we been told that most things that you learn is school are not worth much out there in the real world. heh
This topic is a very well defined topic in classes where the main purpose is to make you think, learn and understand. Many of the classes I have taken in my college career are very very different to some courses I have taken back at high school, not because of the fact that it is a university level course but the entire American system is slightly weird and difficult to adapt to, especially if you have studied in a British regulated education system. We have learned from a very young age not to be “spoon-fed” at school and working hard so you actually get to deserve on your performance. However, when it comes to universities around the United States, you get graded on your attendance, participation and exams, which is a unique and an interesting approach. You tend to have larger lectures, regulated with multiple choice questions, which makes me think that you can be lucky, not go to lectures and still pull of the B – through means of “nittany notes”, and that you definitely do not deserve. Some classes which I have partaken in has allowed me to specifically write down what I have learned over the course period and how I understand the topic and evaluate it. It is true that having over 600 students makes it hard, but you can always have more TAs or other alternatives.
“I tell my classes that if they just do what they are supposed to do and meet the standard requirements, that they will earn a C,” he said. “That is the default grade. They see the default grade as an A.” This statement is so true! The article also made me think, that maybe students are becoming much smarter and due to the fact that colleges are taking in more applications, hence more students lets their percentage of As and A- increase. Regardless of the fact that they deserve the A or not, maybe they study smartly and not geek-ishly. I mean to say that street-smarts exist, and in this generation and environment, they have to had increased, especially if there tend to have an increase in Ivy-League’s student body.
In my opinion, if you deserve it you should get an A. But college is more than a high GPA thing, its more of a learning experience which then tends to shape your personality and behavior for the future and the real world. I do not have the best of the best GPAs but I have cherished and learned so much from many classes which allows me to take interest and gain knowledge more than anything. In universities, policies should be amended, teaching styles should be changed or whatever there is to make it a learning experience where students, too, do not need to worry about the high GPA for their future career and step towards a better life.
I think it’s ludicrous that academic places such as Princeton among others are even considering adapting the grade deflation policy. If a student works hard enough, they should be able to receive an A. I don’t understand how it even works. I might have it all wrong, but if there are two students that are both A worthy, and they only need one more to meet quota, how do they decide? Flip a coin? Put their names in a hat and pick one out? I know that that’s drastic, and in this case both students would receive an A, but what really happens when there are a significant proportion of students who are able to receive an A? I know that not everyone can get an A just for showing up to class and doing the standard work, but I don’t understand the point of limiting who can get one. It should be an honor, and those that receive an A should be the hardest working students.
I don’t agree with the professor’s point of view that if kids do everything they’re supposed to, they will only receive a C. A C is average, and average is not doing everything you’re supposed to do. Being average means messing up, not turning things in on time, and not going to every class. I do agree with most students that the new “average” should be a B.
In today’s world the grade you get means everything. That’s all people look at - your GPA. They can’t determine how well you did intrinsically or if you really learned something, not just memorized it for the test. College students learn that in high school. Your grades determine if your parents are going to yell at you or not, what college or university you get accepted to, and school funding. The grades are everything. Actual knowledge means next to nothing.
So I completely understand why students are angry at receiving lower grades. Especially with something so objective as a paper, there’s always room to argue and possibly get your grade up. I don’t know if it’s so much a sense of entitlement as it is a survival strategy. In order to survive on top in today’s world, your numbers have to be high. That’s all people look at. Prospective employers will of course ask if you know the skill or material, but they will also look at what order you graduated in, if you were in the top or bottom of your class, and your GPA.
People can’t accept the fact that they are not as smart as they’d to be and anyone with half a brain assumes that they are a genius. There are so many reasons for this but one of the most obvious is our schooling k-12. Not all, but many high school teachers, especially in a small school like mine, get to know their students pretty well. I feel like to teachers who have a close relationship to student they know try, they feel guilty about giving them a low grade that reflects the actual content of their work. Teachers will look and ignore little thing and let others slide because the student put a lot of effort into an assignment. Being babied like think may boost someone’s confidence when they get their work but causes a huge slap of reality when you get past that in a career and or in college where people don’t let mistakes slide because in life, believe it or not, no body cares how hard you worked on doing something wrong. Another effect of getting better grades than you should is that it makes people not look back and learn from their mistakes. I know personally any time I get an assignment back I’m probably not going to look over it unless I have a reason to. Getting a D on a paper causes people to look over it find their mistakes and gives them a chance to fix it the next time, getting a B on a D paper causes people to think “ I know I made a few mistakes but I really know what I’m doing” or “I made a lot of grammar mistake but I guess my teacher doesn’t focus on that” the second one especially makes people think its ok to not focus on a certain aspect of something and once its looked over a number of times why bother working on improving that anymore. After these ideas are pounded into our brains for years the standards and expectations of our grades rises. Obviously over the years the “acceptable grade” has been rising to almost unreachable heights. So students feel they need to be the best when in reality we are going to be as good as we are not matter how many grades we argue for sometime in your life it will catch up to you. So when people get test back and argue their grade I don’t understand, it how you did for a reason either because that is the level that you are at or you did something yourself to bring yourself down. If you should be a B student you’ll get a B or worse and if you’re lucky, better, but since you’ve been lucky in the past you shouldn’t think that you deserve it. Basically people should just accept how they are and stop pretending to be better than they are its going to get them nowhere.
At times, grading systems seem to be unfair, but there is no better way to evaluate students than by using some sort of grading scale. While reading the article "Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes" I found myself getting very irritated with what students were saying about grading. How does it make any sense that trying your best, and really doing the work earns you a passing grade? And to think that some people push it so far to say that doing the work deserves an A? In life, putting in effort does not mean you will succeed. As much as it may seem that you have done everything you can to prepare for an exam or to write the best paper possible, if you don’t get an A, then there was something you could have done better. It is not something that you can just go to the professor and say, “Oh but I really tried” about. You’re never going to have a job where you can just try, and not do what is asked of you, and your boss will say, “Don’t worry about it I know you really tried your best, so I’ll give you a raise.” That is ludicrous! Sure there are people who put in twice as much effort as others and do not do nearly as well, but there are always going to be people who understand things better than you, it’s life. Grades are the only way to really measure how well a student is doing in a class, and until someone can propose a better idea, grades should remain as they are. There is no possible way to be graded on effort because people would just lie about the time they put into their work, and other than a professor going to watch every student do work for their class, there is no way to really know how hard a student is trying. So even though grades are frustrating sometimes they do keep students learning at least some information. If a form of evaluation existed that did not put as much pressure on students, but that still made sure the same amount of learning and the same quality of learning was being achieved, I would be completely in favor of changing from the current grading system to the new one. However, I do not think that anything will be able to better measure student’s understanding than giving exams and assigning papers. The purpose of college is to learn and to become a well rounded individual, and praising students for putting in x amount of hours of work a week is not going to help students achieve this. Everyone learns in different ways and in different amounts of time, and for some that means that more effort will need to be put in than for others, but that is how it is in the real world. College is supposed to prepare students for the real world, so why should professors feel the need to cushion our grades because no one is going to that for us once we graduate.
After reading this week’s blog I began to think about my educational career over the years. During high school, I always worked hard to achieve the grades that my parents wanted me to achieve. But it was not only for my parents that I chose to excel in the classroom it was for myself also. I wanted to be accepted into a good school, I wanted to make sure I was given the best education that I could have and that was all determined by a standardized test on Saturday in October and my high school GPA. It was not until my first economics class at Penn State that I learned how hard I was going to have to work to get the grades I received in high school. I realized that my grades were determined by two tests, a midterm and a final and little in between. This type of grading was different from high school where every homework or classroom assignment was given a grade so that you had some extra padding in your final average. I never realized that in college there would be little opportunity for extra credit and that some assignments would be graded so harshly. I don’t believe that there is a problem with how Penn State grades, I think teachers have learned to give extra attention to different assignments in the classroom as not every students is going to do well on tests. I think it is unusual and a deterrent for all this pressure to be put on students, as is the case with majors having a certain GPA to get in. Does it matter? If they are still able to take the classes that are required for the major why do they need a certain GPA to get in? I think the policy that Princeton has adopted is discouraging to students. It makes students fear their classmates and does not leave any friendship in the classroom. Students are not going to be as nice to each other and there will always be a heated competition in the classroom. I don’t think this is a good policy for any college; it discourages the average student from even trying to get a head in the class. Students are not going to enjoy the classroom as they once did and there will be that sense of anger among students. A classroom should be an environment for learning and grades should be the last thing students’ worry about. Many students are able to learn the knowledge and material without getting a great grade on a test and teachers need to understand that. I think teachers and students a like need to learn the dynamics of teaching and learning and remember that grades are not the most important thing.
Surely, most students can agree that they got by in high school without having to put much effort into their work. Like most grade school transitions, high school was another transition that many embraced with ease. However, one of the biggest transitions in an individual’s life is college. When a student moves away to college, they are independent and all the true work ethic shows. Those who just passed through high school with flying colors find themselves challenged at the college level. The biggest challenge is taking charge of one’s future. An individual has to maintain their own schedule, manage time, and balance work and study with a healthy social life. College is difficult because most students are accustomed to having their parents make their decisions for them and keep them on track with studies. College takes students out of their habitual environment and puts them on a campus with thousands of other students to explore opportunities for their future. These distinctions were made to help understand the student mentality behind earning grades.
Primary school was significant in role in nurturing young minds into individuals with opinions and ideas of their own. However, secondary education seemed to take those students and just put them to work. In my experience, high school was counter-productive. It seemed as if the work we did was just that, busy work. Taking this into account and the accounts of many of my peers, I think it is safe to say that high school fostered the student mentality and work ethic. It was a mentality with the idea that if you do the work, accurately and thoroughly, you will earn yourself an A in the respective course. So most students focused their energy on just getting the work done instead of looking into the purpose behind the work. College, on the other hand, challenges students to think and understand the material presented to them. But many students still have the mentality that if they do all the work they are supposed to, that it earns them an A. In order to thoroughly understand and apply the ideas presented to students in college, it requires more than just doing what is required of you.
I agree with most students and the idea that if you do all the work that is required of you, and then some, your grade should reflect that. Regardless of how much you understand the material, if much effort is put forth in the work, what’s wrong with expecting an ‘A’ grade? If all students approach their studies with the mentality that they do their work, and then some, the work ethic of students will appreciate. But mandating a grade quota is an unnecessary change that may not yield the fruits it aims for. This means that if all the students do the same work, that only a limited number will get an ‘A’. As if the college competition was not enough already. This can even affect the amount of students that enroll in certain courses.
Surely, most students can agree that they got by in high school without having to put much effort into their work. Like most grade school transitions, high school was another transition that many embraced with ease. However, one of the biggest transitions in an individual’s life is college. When a student moves away to college, they are independent and all the true work ethic shows. Those who just passed through high school with flying colors find themselves challenged at the college level. The biggest challenge is taking charge of one’s future. An individual has to maintain their own schedule, manage time, and balance work and study with a healthy social life. College is difficult because most students are accustomed to having their parents make their decisions for them and keep them on track with studies. College takes students out of their habitual environment and puts them on a campus with thousands of other students to explore opportunities for their future. These distinctions were made to help understand the student mentality behind earning grades.
Primary school was significant in role in nurturing young minds into individuals with opinions and ideas of their own. However, secondary education seemed to take those students and just put them to work. In my experience, high school was counter-productive. It seemed as if the work we did was just that, busy work. Taking this into account and the accounts of many of my peers, I think it is safe to say that high school fostered the student mentality and work ethic. It was a mentality with the idea that if you do the work, accurately and thoroughly, you will earn yourself an A in the respective course. So most students focused their energy on just getting the work done instead of looking into the purpose behind the work. College, on the other hand, challenges students to think and understand the material presented to them. But many students still have the mentality that if they do all the work they are supposed to, that it earns them an A. In order to thoroughly understand and apply the ideas presented to students in college, it requires more than just doing what is required of you.
I agree with most students and the idea that if you do all the work that is required of you, and then some, your grade should reflect that. Regardless of how much you understand the material, if much effort is put forth in the work, what’s wrong with expecting an ‘A’ grade? If all students approach their studies with the mentality that they do their work, and then some, the work ethic of students will appreciate. But mandating a grade quota is an unnecessary change that may not yield the fruits it aims for. This means that if all the students do the same work, that only a limited number will get an ‘A’. As if the college competition was not enough already. This can even affect the amount of students that enroll in certain courses.
I agree with most of the students in the article, "Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes.” If you are doing everything required for the class and more you should be able to pull off an A in the class. What more can teachers ask for? It is not right for professors to make tests impossible so only a mere thirty five percent of students get an A. Absurd sounds like the correct word. I do not necessarily believe students are getting smarter, but I definitely believe they are working harder. Today, getting into college is extremely difficult. They all want the best of the best students, and look at everything from your SAT scored to your community service at a local hospital. The job market is also extremely competitive. Graduate students want jobs where they make a lot of money, so they work hard in college so they can achieve their dreams.
For me, I have never really had to work hard for my grades because school has usually come easy to me. I was expecting college to be completely different from high school. I thought it would be ten times harder (do not get me wrong, it is more difficult). Some classes are much more difficult than others, and I believe that depends on how well your teacher teaches. If the professor makes the class interesting and engaging, then students are willing to do the work because they are interested. The better the teacher is, the better students’ grades should be. This is still frustrating because I have always been an “over-achiever,” and I have it in my mind set to do so.
My first semester at college, I almost had straight A’s with one A-. My A- was 1/10 of a point off from an A, but I did not go to the professor and complain because I did not put the effort forth needed to earn an A. I have never been the type to complain to a teacher about my grades, because I do not believe it is fair to other students. This semester, I am taking an Astronomy class, and I have been busting my ass for the class, but I can’t get higher than a B on an exam. It is really frustrating that I put forth a lot of effort but I can only pull off a B. I am doing everything the professor tells us to do, but somehow I still manage to do average. Most students are thrilled to have a “B,” am I as well. But it still has not hit me yet that I will earn B’s college, and that is still really good. I am just the type of person who is the “over-achiever,” I guess.
The new grade deflation system that some schools are adopting is not the right way to get students working harder to learn the material. The idea that only a certain amount of students can receive A’s because of a quota given by the administration discourages students and creates an unfriendly environment in the class. Competition amongst students does not help encourage more learning but creates tension and stress, which college students do not need more of. I’ve heard of teachers announcing on the first day of classes and in the syllabus that only 25% of their class will receive A’s, etc; what about the student who is the next student in line to receive an A and their points calculate to an A, but just because of the quota they get a B. How is this fair and in what way will this promote an intrinsic motivation to learn?
However, I do agree that kids today are developing an attitude of entitlement and unfortunately it seems to have begun with recent generations. Some people today seem to believe that they deserve certain things, including grades, gifts, and a spot on the team or in the school play, etc. when they haven’t done the necessary work to earn them. One of the biggest issues that I have is eight year old kids who have cell phones and digital cameras and their parents who give them these things. Kids are growing up thinking that they deserve everything they have when they haven’t worked for any of it. This is not a good mentality to give to our children; many people have only gotten to where they are because of hard work and because they’ve learned what it takes to get the things that they want in their lives.
This attitude of entitlement also comes through in kids’ relationships with their elders, especially parents and teachers. It seems to be a growing problem in our society that kids are not respecting those who deserve their respect. As an elementary education major and from personal experience, I have heard of horror stories of teachers being walked all over in their classrooms and being shown no respect from their students. Most of the problem comes from at home where parents do not discipline their children like they used to; instead of punishing your child because they clearly did something wrong, parents will turn the blame around on someone else and give their kids an out, which will lead to kids feeling no responsibility for their actions.
Ultimately this leads to the mentality of entitlement. These kids will say I deserve respect from my teachers while they haven’t done one thing to earn their teacher’s respect and should be the ones trying to earn the respect of their elders. Parents feed into this problem when they undermine the teachers’ rules and reprimands, making excuses for their kids and leading their kids down an awful path. This can only lead to more problems when kids feel like there’s no consequence to their actions and they don’t need to do anything to get where they want to be in life, but that they deserve it.
Back in high school I never even heard of extra credit and having a class average of A would have been impossible. As teachers regularly said, as I was growing up, it is very rare for someone to hand in perfect a perfect homework that deserves full credit. Therefore giving an A for effort would not be right.
I don’t know how I personally feel about grading. As much as effort and hard work are important it does not translate to being smart. Sometimes people get so caught up in their studying that they end up focusing on things that are off topic. Imagine if the students in the article were thinking about doctors, ultimately for all the good effort and hours of work a person can put in their books etc if they do not get good grades then they should not be trusted in that field. Effort is good but sometimes you also need to be able. I would be happy to know that the doctor that takes care of me worked hard in school but if that is the only reason he got such good grades and made it through medical school then I would definitely be worried.
The problem however is that I am sure many students would accept a B if society had not become so obsessed with excellence at levels that would not be possible without a shift in grading standards. Ultimately in todays working world having straight As is a must to be at the top. People do not have time to meet with you, see what type of person you are, they look at a paper version of each individual and judge regardless of the background stories.
I completely agree with the statement to “re-teach students what education is” and trying to make education more focused on actually learning rather than ‘producing’ good grades. If you like something it will not be interesting if you understands all aspects of it right away. So being able to present certain topics in such a way as to make students interested not because they are guaranteed an A but rather because they want to learn is something every teacher or professor should strive for. Students need to be challenged and understand more about a certain topic, not just find the strategic way to constantly get an A.
If professors keep giving out As so easily it will only worsen the situation and in a way alienate students from what they are studying. By becoming so obsessed with grades students don’t even think anymore about what they really want to do. They just find a systematic way of working which will ensure academic success and never really get interested in their work. I think it depends on cases though, but I have noticed even in my own academic experience, that many times student receive As they do not deserve. Some of the work I produced at times had not been done with accuracy and definitely had required no effort or significant input on my part but I still got an A and as much as that makes me happy I do not know how much I will really get out of those classes. I did that work so fast or in a way that was so detached that I do not think I even remember what I wrote or what I was taught half the time.
I don’t feel that a student’s expectation of a high letter grade stems from a feeling of entitlement, rather from what they have received for grades in previous schools. In middle school and high school, a student could coast on mere intelligence and study once and a while and receive an A- in a course. Any relatively smart person would finish their high school career with a majority of A’s and B’s. Anyone with a report card with two C’s (the letter nicknamed “average”) next to each other was seen as “dumb”. I feel like this is very common in most schools. But in college, students now meet a new expectation from professors. I agree with Prof. Marshall Grossman that students believe that the default grade is an A. You must come into college with a different outlook on academics. You cannot coast. You must “make the grade”, rather than getting the grade. You must do more than just the reading to do well. Maybe actually have an interest in the course. But I must disagree with the article in that I believe that working hard should have some correlation with earning a high grade. Quality of work is the most important thing, but I feel that unless you are just gifted, you must put in a lot of effort to improve the quality of your work.
As far as grade deflation goes, I feel like it is wrong. I can understand making the test more difficult, but decreasing the amount of possible A’s, just doesn’t make any sense to me. If a student gets 33 out of 35 on a multiple choice test, they should receive an A. If forty percent of the class gets 33 out of 35, you cannot give any of them a grade less than an A. It just proves that the tests are too easy. Get all the teachers together and remake the tests so that there are less A’s. You cannot fault a student for wanting a high grade. High grades in high school lead to prestigious colleges and high grades in college lead to graduate schools and job opportunities. Parents preach and engrave expectations into their children, and it is only normal for the students to want to achieve all those things. Complaining to teachers is pointless. If you really want an A in college, you must work for it, rather than expect it by doing the standard work. I’m not exactly sure how to explain the increase in A’s at Penn State in the past two decades. Maybe the reason is that students have a sense that they must get high grades and they have just worked that much harder. I really don’t know.
I really don’t agree with limiting a number of A’s the students can get. I teachers are bias the have problems with making decision on grades then they should change the teacher not the fact that grades should be altered. I personally think that grade should be earned but I also realize that some people naturally learn different from other people so the whole idea of grading is already weird to me. I feel like so people just don’t learn the same way as other and they should not be punished with horrible grades, especially if the teacher clearly see’s them trying. Some people have come from horrible schools and find themselves at pretty good colleges, so if college educators find themselves teaching in a style that is productive for student from good high schools then it may not work for student from bad schools so they work harder. If educators teach a style that kids from bad school would understand then, then some kids from good school may not understand, but there is a chance that they will not get the grade they expected because they couldn’t adapt. School is all about adapting and in a sense why do you have to pay money for adapting? Because in the long run school on a resume can lead to money in a career of choice. Me personally I know I’m a C student. All of the stuff that is learned in school is important for a backup plan but all I want to do is get through it. I don’t like school so all I care about is passing. I just find so many holes within the foundation of school that I don’t know how to solve so in a since all I say to myself is, “get through it” or “do what you got to do.” A’s mean a lot to me when I done all that I need to do to get an A, so I feel I should deserve it if I’ve done all that is asked for but some time teacher’s fail to realize that THEIR tests are horrible. End the end I just a piece of the large puzzle and I just playing my part. In general I am just trying to do what I want to do. Working a regular 9-5 just is not something I want to do. I want to make time own times for working because others do it. I’ve seen people work a regular 9-5 and after so many years your dead and I personally just don’t want to live my life in a system that define everybody including me. I want to define myself. The only thing I need to stay away from is being overly prideful because that gets you in trouble.
Journal 9 -- So You Think You Deserve an "A," Do You?
My roommate is an A student. She is an accounting major in the Sapphire program here (which is a leadership program in the business school) and she works really hard. I mean she works REALLLLLLLLLLY hard. When she has a test, I do not see her for days because she is in the library studying as if it were a full-time job. She does not stop until she knows her course material front and back, left and right. You know what? She gets straight A’s. She attends office hours with her teachers, and therefore has excellent relations with all of them. She has study sessions with her classmates and makes sure that if there is something she does not understand, she gets someone to teach it to her. She is not a genius, and she is not at an Ivy League school, but she is in the top of her class at Penn State and a job position at Deloitte and Touche in New York City where she will be making almost six figures right out of college. My roommate is an excellent example of someone who is so determined to do well, that there is no way she will not make it happen.
I am the opposite. I am a mediocre student who just happens to do slightly better than others on tests. I am a procrastinator in a major that happens to come easily to me. I have a Public Relations concentration in the Communications school and as average a student as they come. My motivation comes and goes, so my GPA is decent, and my communication skills are good, so I do not think I will have a problem getting a job out of college. To be honest, I am graduating in 7 weeks and I take two classes this semester (gym being one of them) so even writing this blog every week is difficult for me. My roommate and I are on different spectrums.
In my own opinion, schoolwork and grades depend entirely on an individual student’s effort, motivation and determination. I do not agree with the two students from University of Maryland and University of Vermont. They feel that if they do the readings and go to class, they deserve a good grade. My roommate does not get good grades by doing the readings and going to class. She reads the readings over and over and over again until she knows them by heart, does every single practice problem in the backs of her books, and learns the material until she knows it well enough to teach it to her struggling classmates. My roommate deserves her grades. I deserve my grades. You get in what you put out and that is all there is to it.
Grades are so important in today’s world. Putting your GPA on your resume from college and high school. It is ridiculous. High school for me was a huge joke. I was the constant under achiever. In 4 years of high school and 4 courses of English I read 1 book that was required and that we had to do a project on. I did no work. I took AP classes and all honors. Never once studied. I passed I got out of there and now im at penn state. I did as little as work as possible and took the easiest way solution. BUT I did fine im at penn state and I have realized that even though I did not do my best in high school it doesn’t matter. I spent more time on my social life than on my grades and I now see that as beneficial. I “networked” throughout high school and I am 100% positive that what I did will help me through life more than anything I would have learned in high school. In college grades are different. I see myself striving to do better. For the first time in my life I have read the recommended reading for a class. I have noticed I am reading the textbooks putting forth my best effort. I am achieving B and A work. But if Penn State were to impose a quota on As. This is just not right. I would be doing A work according to the teachers standards but some people might be doing better work than I can do. It would restrict me from receiving the A that I deserve doing A work. No student is entitled to an A but if they do A work then they are certainly entitled to an A. Like the Wharton curve the way it is graded is by percentages. If you receive a 93% as your grade for the class but 60% of the class did better than you . You will receive a D because of the grading scale. That is when grading becomes unfair. Why not adopt a plan like Brown. Where courses can either be pass or fail or have grades. This gives the student the option to choose what kind of grading they should have. At Brown there are no gpas. A grading system like that at Penn State I believe would be extremely beneficial. Students would thrive and do more quality work to reicve their grades. Grades have become ridiculous. Where students are becoming cutthroat and deciving towards classmates just so they can do better. That is not the kind of society that Penn State promotes. Penn State should not address this “grading issue” as Sam says. There is no need to hurt the society that penn state has. By changing it the only thing that could happen is make student to student and student teacher relationships worse.
I think this write up brings about a different point of view that students have and teachers have. I have been in college for a while now and I see it more as I'm paying for college, why are the teachers so strict with working with students with grades? After being at Penn State for a while you learn what classes are easy and what ones you need to pick a certain teacher in to have the class be extra easy. I see college as the students are paying for the class why can the teacher not work with the student if a problem comes up, the teacher should not want to fail a student. I think college teachers have the best job in the world. They get to give out grades to students who pay to go to the class, if a teacher does not teach well and gives all the students A's he will always have students enroll in his class term after term. When a teacher gets paid by the number of students they have in their class I feel they pass more students, when a teacher is full time they do not care so much if a student fails but some larger classes with ten yearned teachers are super easy grades, due to the fact they have a large number of students. Often classes with large number of students are easier then classes with smaller number of students. I think the difference at a larger college then a smaller one is easy, larger colleges are giving away grades to pass students, they also do not advise students from the start very well, this is why most Penn State students do not finish within 4 years.
Having a brother who goes to a private school I can tell first hand it is harder for him to get A's then me. Although I do not get many A's I feel it is set up here for students to get an A with extra credit and such in more classes then what he has to do. At his school he does have the setting with a set number of A's and such, his GPA is also different along with the sliding number scale for grades, such as a 95 might be an A not a 90. I think students are trying harder in college, I do not know if this means they are smarter but I think they are trying harder and because of this more A's and higher grades are being earned. I have been in classes where you start from a zero and you earn your grade up, in terms you start with an F and have to earn an A, and I also have been in classes where you start with an A and you have to keep that by doing work on time and doing well on exams. The two sound the same but they are very different as keeping the A is a lot better then having to earn every point in my eyes. I think colleges should have one set way to do the grading for the whole college and not let each teacher come up with their own policy and terms, this would help students a lot more I feel. Over all I think the class work of college is a lot easyier then high school work, it is just the outside forces of doing other things then class work that take away from the students getting grades they should get, I think any kid in high school could take classes at Penn State and do well in them.
I have to agree with Sam on this issue. I think that students have changed significantly, and that students feel entitled to many things, not just grades. I think it is a new generational trait. The only thing that the students have going for them is that it seems as if employers value different things now than they did fifty years ago. Employers value communication skills and personality and a team player. So although students feel that they are entitled to these good grades, at the end of the day employers aren’t looking at grades as the most important thing any more. You need more than good grades to get the top job, you have to be able to work with people. So the fact that students believe hard work should earn a grade, might help them slightly because employers are looking for hard workers. However the grades that they are grubbing for are not necessarily the passing trait with employers.
The feeling of entitlement does not bother me as much how the lack of appreciation for learning has gone down. People are not striving to learn the subject for the joy of learning. People strive in order to get good grades to hopefully get a good job some day. There are less and less liberal arts majors and more and more science majors. There is nothing wrong with either of these fields, but the similarities that range across both of them is that student’s just do not generally care whether they are actually learning or sustaining information. They are more concerned about the grade than the fact that they might not be retaining any information. If the option to take a class that was incredibly easy but boring as hell as opposed to a class that was interesting but challenging, more people would take the easy out. I am not saying that grades are not important, but as an education major I find that I value the quality that I am receiving versus if it is easy or challenging. Some of my best and favorite classes and have been some of my hardest. I just wish that the general attitudes of individuals could change, because when they are staying stagnant and the same these same values and ideas get passed on to future generations. I fear the day that I have to teach thirty grade grubbing students that could care less about the usefulness of the material and more about the usefulness of a good grade.
Grades and my future have been two things I have been thinking about a lot lately. At the start of my college career I was extremely concerned with every grade, every score on every assignment. This sense of urgency forced me to succeed. However, over the years I have had a complete change of attitude. I have gotten involved in many other activities at Penn State and they have made me realize what is more important to me. My involvement as a Morale Captain in THON has taught me so much more than any class has ever. Therefore, I started to devote my time and myself to THON rather than worrying about getting an A on every assignment.
When I sit down and think about it, this is probably the worst time to adopt an attitude like this. However, I have come to the realization that my happiness is much more important than attempting to get As in classes that I don’t enjoy. This sounds like I am not a hardworker or don’t care about my future. I think I am exactly the opposite. I have worked harder and put more time in this year to a cause than I ever have for anything in the past. It has also paid a lot of dividends for me mentally; I feel much better about myself and my purpose in life. All in all, I have found things much more important to me, and this new me that has been created will go much farther in life than the me who used to just get good grades.
With this newfound attitude, it has made me see how other people have treated this new, competitive world. I feel that in today’s world, people do not push for more out of themselves emotionally. I think that people just go through the motions of going to class, studying, and taking tests, and they don’t really take time to THINK about what they are doing. They do not take the time to THINK about who they are as people or how they are growing. I believe that characters in today’s world are much more static than in the past.
As for the grade deflation at places like Princeton, I would say that I am opposed to that idea. Yes, it forces people to work harder. However, at the same time, it forces people to just repeat the motions that will make them successful. People will become solely focused on their grades and nothing else, and they won’t grow as people or develop relationships. People will become concerned only about themselves and will not care about taking people down on their way to the top. I don’t see the benefit of an initiative like that.
Students in this time of period no doubt started to read less and less and write even more. Though some may refute my argument that writing comes from not only within but by reading what others have to write as well. Idea's go a long way and are not limited to what a single person has to say. Writing is an art and takes decades to perfect. Grades have a similar problem. Though it takes time to earn a grade but students are just not willing to put in the time and effort to earn a well earned A. They want to be fed with a silver spoon like kings but with no dynasty in their heirloom. I myself sometimes go to teachers telling them that hey I need an A cause I worked hard and what not but it doesn't mean that I put my best effort into it and it is true I didn't. But sometimes I did then what can I do if I don't get an A I guess it just wasn't up to the standard of the professor. Just means I need to pick my game up a bit more. Though a lot of students say that hey just go to class everyday and if your in the teachers eye sight and you answer his or her questions then they might just change your grade. Though it works more then 70% of the time but as much as I hate teachers pets its true. I am the kind of a person who believes if you work you will get your grade though if you have something else under the sleeve that's a separate issue. For me getting good grades isn't the end of the world. When people listen to me they think I'm stupid but they don't know how I will lead my life eventually. I know how to pave my own path and I don't need to follow someone else's advise who themselves don't know what to do with their own life. We all are in a very dangerous world. People use each other for their personal gain. Whether its to pass time or for their money. It's always one thing or the other. We are social animals and though correct me if I'm wrong not all people are like this but the flow seems to be this way and it's quite frustrating. Grades have a unique relation to this. Students use this technique by making a relation with the teacher to gain what they want i.e. an A for the course. Though this practice doesn't teach the student the value of a real A rather the value of how to deceive their peers to a level unimaginable and they don't even realize it.
After reading the New York Times article on student expectations for grades, I have mixed reactions. First and foremost I do not believe that this is a good thing. The big issue here is that student expectations have risen dramatically. What was once perceived as average (a “C” grade) is now looked down upon by many. In fact, I would be willing to bet that a strong majority of my friends’ parents expect better from their children than a C. I know that personally being in a control major set at 3.4, it’s understandable that my parents want me to succeed and therefore expect me to get all A’s (and maybe some B’s). But is this good for the future generation of students? Should universities and schools nationwide continue these ever-increasing strict expectations and grade requirements? Is it right for a school to enact a grade deflation policy when there is “too many A’s”?
I don’t think so. In my opinion, the recent surge in A’s is because of the boost in competiveness in jobs and universities. It is harder than ever to make it into prestigious schools such as Princeton or Harvard because of the increasing SAT and GPA requirements for these schools. Likewise, we are finding tougher and tougher majors in college (such as my own…I have even seen control majors at 3.6. Yikes!) and it’s only getting harder. To me it only makes sense that we are seeing more A’s because students are being forced to work harder. Dr. Richards seemed to be befuddled when he claimed to be “reasonably certain that students have not gotten THAT much smarter, although I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong.” I don’t think it’s an issue of students being smarter, I just think there’s more a push to try hard now because of the competitiveness. In this day and age, sometimes the only way we can judge people is by the numbers. Penn State University is a clear example of this: with its size and student population, the only way the admissions process can work is by seeing if applying students have a certain minimum GPA or SAT score. Once again, I don’t think this is a good thing. For one, it puts too much pressure on students and might even take away from their learning experience by creating too much competition. Also, by following this type of admissions process, universities in essence are rejecting education to people who need it most. A similar argument can be made for the price of tuition these days – that’s right, not only is college more competitive than ever, it’s also more expensive than ever. Sadly in this system we see even the most talented students get rejected just because of their economic status.
I want to just start off by saying how unbelievable I think it is that Princeton created a "grade-deflation" policy. Don't educators want us to succeed? I mean, if students are working harder than ever these days (especially at Ivy league schools), don't they deserve the grades to show for it? I feel that this grade-deflation policy could cause some serious psychological and emotional problems among some students, such as feeling they are not going to be successful in life or feeling like they are not going to get the jobs they want and not being able to get into the grad schools they want. If students are producing "A" work and getting "A's" on papers and exams, then they should get that "A" for the class and not have to worry about getting a lower grade because all the "A's" were used up for the semester.
As far as "doing all the work" is concerned, one could do all the work required for the class but still only produce "B" or "C" material. They may do all the work but only produce half-assed papers or homework. Or they read the chapters and think it is enough to cover their studying needs for the exam. I actually experienced a class like this last semester. There were only 8 people in the class, and attendance and chapter readings were mandatory because at the beginning of each class there was a quiz on the previous night's readings. There were 2 students I remember in particular who complained at the end of every class, because they were only producing "B's" and "C's" on the quizzes. Well as I got to know these two particular classmates, I found that they had bought the used copy of the book, and were only reading the previously highlighted sections of the chapters. Yet they still thought they should receive a better grade because they spend their nights "reading the chapters" and went to every class and took all the notes. I agree that I feel frustrated as well when I put maximum effort and time into a class, but I can recognize when the work I produce isn't "A" material. If I get a "B-" on an exam, then I deal with it. I'm not going to beg the professor to change my grade just because I attend all the lectures. Most of the time the reason I attend all the lectures is because I'm paying an arm and a leg for the class so I want to get my money's worth.
I have really strong feelings about the limit of 'A's that some schools have adopted. To make classes competitive to the point where students will not want to give notes to a person who has missed a class or two is ridiculous! School is a place to learn and brighten your own future, but if that environment involves the stress of competing for an 'A' would really decrease the effort I would put into the class. I would have in the back of my mind that I would bust my ass and I would be the one on the out side, not being able to earn a grade I deserved because only 25% of the class can get an A.
I don't feel students feel entitled to having high grades just because they attend class. I know that if I do the readings that are necessary and attend the classes I am required to, then I should be able to earn a good grade. But in no way do I feel that just because I do these things that I just deserve to have a grade handed to me. I need to prepare for my tests, and be active in class discussions. If I do not do these things then I do not deserve the high grade. I never worked hard in my classes in high school and still managed a 3.3 gpa at graduation, that was 4 years ago. Since then, I have come to realize what I need to do to get the grades I need for my major. I came into college thinking I could skate by as I did in high school, I went though my first two years at a branch campus being able for the most part doing what I did in high school, but when I got to university park last year, I was rudely awakened about the preparation I needed to do out side of class to earn the grades I wanted to. A student need to bite the bullet and do the work that is needed.
College is meant for your professors to push you, and learn about things that you have an interest in. But you should not have to worry about what the grades your fellow peers are getting. That type of competitiveness is meant for grad school. I did not go to college for that type of environment, I went for an education and do the best I can, but if I give an effort that deserves an ‘A’ and I do not receive it because the limit was reached, I would get a sense of “well what exactly is the point if the system prevents me from getting the grade I deserve?”
I am one of those students that have to work to actually do well. In high school, I wasn’t one of those kids where things just came to them. I worked to earn a good grade or decent grade. I deserved the certain grade in regards to the effort I put in. I knew if I was wrongfully graded but mostly I knew I didn’t put enough effort in to receive higher. Now in college I still work and I work hard. I believe effort has a lot to do with a person’s grade. If I put a lot of effort into something, I am trying to learn it and understand it. If I don’t understand it then, no, I should not receive an A for effort. But my effort is more than the kid sitting next to me with the same grade who doesn’t try, no effort involved.
I think now a day, kids are very pressured to do well. In high school kids strive to get good grades, be better then the rest to make it into that certain college. Kids don’t want to disappoint their parents. They want to succeed in life and that is a lot of pressure. Since this pressure has such prevalent effect kids strive for perfect grade. They don’t try and learn. If grades were not so important in today’s society student would actually want to learn and not just try to memorize for the time being. Students are trying to be as successful as possible that doesn’t always include completely learning everything.
My roommate’s boyfriend goes to Mercyhurst in Erie, Pa. It is a private institution. There grading system is a lot more difficult and strict then here and other schools I have heard of. For much of his classes 95 to 100 is an A and anything under to an 85 is a B. His classes are not easy ones where a 95 is simply attainable, they take hard work. On his first exam for calculus not one person received an A. That is ridiculous. Private schools pride themselves on hard academics so not as many people have extremely high GPA’s but these schools are known for hard grading. All colleges have different grading systems. Take an Ivy League school, they only take extremely smart people while a community college will take pretty much anyone and those people with have great GPA’s then. The only difference is that a medium GPA of an Ivy League school is much greater than an amazing GPA at a community college.
Overall, there are colleges that are easier than others, contrary to what people want to believe. The article portrays this with Princeton University only allowing 35% of the students in the class the eligibility to earn an A.
I’m not sure what to exactly say about this topic. Students go to school to get good grades. If they work hard and do everything that they are suppose to do as told by the teacher why aren’t the students suppose to get A’s. As in it’s hard enough that us as students are spending morning and night in the library. What else are we suppose to do? I understand that the universities are trying to make their students work harder and make an A so hard to achieve but till when. All of the students that are serious about their classes and grades just want to get through university and get a good job. As in university is just a road to get us to where we want in the future. I understand that it has to be challenging and hard but at the end of the day don’t you think most students are tired and just can’t take it anymore. I was talking to a friend today and we just talked about how homework are and assignmenets. And he was mentioning that it’s fun to go to classes and just listen to what the teachers have to say. Some of the classes really just make you think in a different way. An example of such classes is sociology 119 or 001. I go to class and actually enjoy what I learn and interested in things that I never thought about. That’s a class that a person would love to go to and listen. The rest of the classes well from what I know the classes I’m taking are just all the time demanding something. And just more and more and more work till when. As in most students have six classes that they are trying to get through or pass. Why shouldn’t the students that put their time into these classes not get A’s. If they care and want to get a good GPA. I don’t know as in I understand what the schools and universities are trying to do but how far do you really want to push the students. All of the students that I study with or meet up with to study every day just complain about how it’s hard and how it’s not working even though you put so much effort into it. we walked around the university being depressed knowing that we are putting all our time into sutides and yet we are not receiving the grades we deserve. We talk to the teachers and still no hope no use of anything we are doing. University is demanding depending on the major but at the end of the day I truly believe that the students who put their time into it just deserve the grades. And most of us international students just want to experience living in the states but we don’t have ime because of our class. It’s like we have to choose between the two: experiencing college of life or studying. Because balancing the two doesn’t get us anywhere. Even thoughwe try but it’s still now working university takes over our lives. To be more exact studies take over out lives.
I’m going to take the role of the (student’s) devil’s advocate. It is far from unfathomable that grade inflation is a reality. This first became apparent to me in high school. I always enjoyed English classes—compared to Physics or Chemistry anyway—and worked very thoroughly on my papers. I would take the time to brain storm ideas, make an outline, and then go through several rounds of drafts and revisions before I arrived at my finished product. My teachers (nearly) always graded my papers at the level of an A, but they also graded some classmates’ papers the same way! This was a little disgruntling to me as I knew they didn’t work as hard as I did and I knew (after reading their work) that their papers were nowhere close to the quality mine was. I never had the nerve to actually say anything about this to anybody; I wanted to seem at least a little humble after all.
Soon, I began to notice something. In every class I took, if there was a written assignment, I excelled. If it was a static test, I did not do as well. I would argue this is because writing allows for a personal appeal (no matter how formal the paper) whereas a teacher can only go by the straight, no-questions-asked answers given on a more traditional test. Being the well-written student that I was, I eagerly anticipated the assessments where I could argue my way into a higher grade. Then a math test would come along and I’d attain a B or C… there was definitely a difference.
Now to the college world: I have not noticed grade inflation nearly as much at Penn State as I did in high school. Nonetheless, I still dread tests featuring multiple choice, true or false, or short answer tests. I’ve still found that when I can make an appeal—regardless of how subtle—I do better even if I feel I know less information. Maybe this is because I am a decent writer. I try to use proper grammar and make an essay seem as profound as possible. All this, however, is basically effort. I put more effort into it so I feel I should, and usually do, earn a better grade.
Therefore, despite my attempts to write this blog in a way that somehow construes grade inflation to not be an issue, I’ve instead shown it is. If my knowledge of writing outshines my knowledge of what I’m writing about, then when I get the A or the B+ it is only out of the effort I put in. I’ve read many classmates’ papers that have much better information than my paper, yet are poorly written resulting in a low grade. Maybe this lends itself to the fact that it is important to know how to write effectively. Or, maybe, it’s a look into a way to fool the system and get your grade inflated.
Since I first began school I have been getting a report on how I was doing. Ever since kindergarten teachers report to our parents how we are in class. Basically those reports are grades but they don’t become important until you get to the first grade. Depending on the school system they are letter grades or numerical grades. The further one gets into their school career, the more importance grades become. I was always a good student in school because it was instilled in me that school was very important. When I was in high school I was usually an 80 and above average student. There were occasions when I slacked off and received 70s in some classes. Honestly I’ve gotten about two failing grades on my report cards throughout my college career.
I know everyone heard the statement “the teacher doesn’t give the grade but the student earns the grade” on a numerous occasions. Yes that is true, but the teacher does have a big influence on how the grading goes. Not all teachers and professors grade the same way, they may follow the grading system of that school but they can manipulate certain aspects of the student’s grade. I completely understand that it is the student’s responsibility on the amount of work done. But teachers and professors can waiver grades for students or present their students with a numerous of simple work. There are some cases where teachers won’t grade a student’s work thoroughly and would give them a grade that is less than what they deserve. As a result, the student may feel that they worked very hard and would like an explanation on why they received the grade given. So it’s not just the amount of work and effort a student expresses but also how the teacher grades as well. I have experienced numerous occasions where I felt like I had put a lot of effort in something and had a meeting with the teacher to get an understanding of the grade.
It was instilled in us from the beginning that an A or 100 is the highest possible grade you can receive. Of course there are some exceptions when teachers go over 100 on certain exams or etc. But Princeton limiting the amount of As that is given to their students to 35% is simply outrageous. Limiting the amount of As given will discourage students and create larger problems. So what if more than 35% of students in each department meet the professor’s requirement to get an A. How does one choose what students receive an A? It was also mentioned in the article that people get the misconception between the effort and quality put into one’s work. That is true because a student can work their ass off and not receive the results that they are looking for. Sometimes certain subjects are not for all students, like the saying “school is not for everybody”. I do not have an answer for that, but I would say that it varies from each student.
Grades are a very important part of school, and no matter where you go to, or when you go to it students are going to want an A in every class they take. If they can get that grade without putting in a substantial amount of effort the student won’t try as hard. It’s the American way, getting rich without working very hard is the exact same thing as getting an A in a class that you don’t have to do much work for to pass. Grade inflation has definitely increased a lot. I don’t think that students today would get the same grades if they went to school during their parent’s era. The best scores on the SATs were scores of the “hippie” era; the 1960 teenager was looked at as a immature stupid student when they actually were close to the opposite. I believe that students now are lazier now then are parents were. One of the main reasons I think that students now are lazier is because of technology. Why would someone read a book to get information when they could just google or wiki the topic? It just seem natural to put more effort into something if you’re going to get the same grade as someone who doesn’t do anything at all for the exact same class.
A few a my professors have taken grade inflation into grading, making a B in a students mind really worth something more closely to a C+, even though many students get mad about this, it makes someone worth for good grade and not just think that they should be given a B for no effort or just because they do certain things. I do however think that classed that only grade off of exams should be put some emphasis on attendance or something else. It really depends on the class whether or not teachers gradually grading students easier and easier should be condemned or commended. Some of the best classes I’ve taken have been some of the hardest classed I’ve ever taken.
It’s a joke to know that some students walk into classes and think that they are going to get good grades just because they should, and not for hard work. Students don’t read anymore too, they become to complacent with the internet for information and factual evidence. You can even buy papers online; literally buy cited papers online for a variety of subjects. This is a disgrace and shows how lazy some of us have actually become. Things aren’t going to get better until teachers start accounting for grade inflation and start giving students the grades that they should receive for the work they do and not just because they got to a certain school or just because they think they should get a decent grade. C’s earn degrees people.
In high school I was your typical “goody-to-shoes.” Not only did I achieve straight A’s in my classes but I was heavily involved in clubs and I was on an athletic team. This is no surprise because my family, parent especially, was very into academic achievement. I have to admit though I did not a lot to get all As. In fact, I don’t remember studying class notes or reading that many textbooks besides my math book. Even in my hardest class I was able to do the bare minimal and still get by with at least a B+. I was spoiled up until I came to college. The college work load really hit me hard. I was not prepared to do as much work as I do now. Everyday I found myself writing papers, doing to tones of homework problems and completing pointless assignment. And for what, Cs. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, it I so hard to get good grades in courses now a days. Most classes have preset grading scales that are suppose to help students out but I feel like they only represent how difficult the class is. For example my chemistry class has a grading scale where an 85 is a ‘A’. Meaning a what use to be a ‘C’ is considered a ‘B’ and a ‘D’ is a ‘C’. Although this appears as a curve to me this says that because students are not able to obtain a overall grade higher than an 85 on average the department had to change the grading criteria. At times I find myself calling home venting to my parents about my poor grades. I express my feeling about being an average student, something I’m not use to and of course they tell me everything will work out for the best but that encouragement is not enough to ease the feeling of failure.
Typically professors give out the most boring assignments to be completed in two days but never do they think that students have a lot of their plates as is. As much as students want to get the assignment done, they don’t because of numerous factors, which include other deadlines for classes, group meetings with slackers, running organization meeting, working four to six hrs a day to support themselves, and getting sleep. These problems don’t concern professors because generally professors desensitize themselves to student’s problems so although you maybe the one student who honestly are grieving from a death in family they don’t care. To be frank teacher don’t even care if students actually learn. They don’t even care if the class average on an exam is in the 40s as long as there are a few students who are passing.
Also achieving impossible A’s is also very stressful for students. Many students, especially those at institutions like Penn State, drive themselves crazy trying to live up to high expectations set by the University. Three out of five students, including me, don’t get the recommended hours of sleep each night. Others don’t get the suggested amount of food intake because they feel like eating is a waste of time. And although they don’t realize it now this bad habits over the course of the semester can have a very negative affect on the body. I have never been around so many unhealthy student in my life. From a health stand point an stressful living style is not good mentally, physically, or emotionally. But what can one do or say, no student will listen because we are conditioned to believe GPA is everything. It we were graded on effort we all would have A’s.
I was actually just talked to my friends about grade today. We talked about how it was so easy in high school to get an A but when you get into college, it becomes so much harder. You could be top student in high school but when you come to college, you are just an average student. I don’t think it’s because we work less or anything. Professors in college just set standards higher and I’m not saying this is a bad thing. I agree with the students form the article. In my opinion, if I work really hard and do everything I can possibly do for example go see professor during office hours, do all the reading assignments and homework etc. Then I deserved to get at least a B in that class. I just don’t agree with the whole grade system. I think sometimes it could be unfair like some people are just really bad at taking test. I don’t like class that only relies on exams’ grade. I think homework, activity, quiz, and attendance should also count toward your grade. I also think that each professor can grade very differently. We can see it all the time here at Penn State. If there are two professors for same class, most of the students will take the one with easier professor and don’t even think about who is better. Personally, I would like to take the class that I’m interested in and with good professors. But these days it just seems like there is no point of taking hard classes or really good professors but exams are extremely hard. Grades determine everything which is kind of sad.
I also disagreed with Princeton’s policy that only 35% of students can get an A. I feel like it is kind of ridiculous. Why should we limit an A to only a certain number of students. What if more students than 35% actually work hard and deserved an A? Or instead of students helping each other in class, then they have to compete each other in order to get an A. I think the best measurement for grading is the average. It can indicate how students are doing in class and how well professors can deliver the materials to the students. I believe that most of professors are smart people and they know the subjects well but sometimes they just don’t have the ability to pass that knowledge to others. For me, good professors mean the one that make the subject clear and know how to deliver the knowledge to students. I understand that grade is the necessary thing to measure how student is doing, but I just wish there are other ways to measure the effort of the student puts into study and class.
I think I agree with what most of what this article suggests. In addition I would like to comment on what Sam think s in regards to grades at Penn State. Granted, students have not gotten smarter the way it should be, but they have gotten smarter about being more efficient. According to most of what I have seen from students, I believe that they have become more effective in deciding what gets them a higher grade and unfortunately for those who can only make average marks when they try their hardest, other alternatives seem to pay off more than studying. As a student I must admit, the libraries have not been bombarded with students, but students do flock to laptop, desktops, and whatever else seems to lead them to access the internet with short descriptions, mock exams, paid for papers, etc. Therefore we have to stop and think. Well, who deserves a higher grade…the kid who doesn’t come to class but seems to be a good test taker, or the student who works hard and still gets mediocre grades?
Even I myself get frustrated when I think about working hard and getting low grades and finding alternative means and improving my grades, and to be honest, I think students are ultimately fed up. High tuition rates lead to a decreased number of scholarships, which leads to more competition to stay in school, and when you have those things to factor into your everyday life, learning somewhat leans towards the backburner of the situation and the stats seem to matter more. With that in mind, students now I think combat for the grades that they want and deserving grades has been so misconstrued at this point, I don’t think anyone knows how to feel anymore. Personally, I don’t think that students that are good test takers should get higher grades than me and I think that it is an ultimate shame that the system is the way it is.
If a professor asked me what I think the problem is and why aren’t students learning anymore, I’d say that I think it’s because of percentages. If students aren’t good test takers and they work really hard, and the test percentage to account for the class is 80%, then naturally it will be a lot harder to get a good grade in the class, and getting a good grade on the “test” will naturally become the main focus for the student. I think its sad that at the end of the day, this is more prevalent in college, but honestly the change has to start in the education system and until the reform the way they operate in terms of grades in an equal and universal manner for all students, we will complain, and find ways to work around it..but if you ask me, there are definitely distinctions in how to acquire just as good of a grade as the person next t you in class.
I have very strong and very conflicting feelings about this entire article. At first I got offended by the students who said “If I attend all the lectures and do all the readings, I deserve at least a B.” In my mind I feel that such an achievement, at the very most, would deserve a C from the teacher. I really feel that is what should be considered the “middle road” between truly mastering a class’s material and doing jack for an entire semester.
Just because you listen to the lectures and read the required materials does not mean you are absorbing the information the way the teacher wants you to. A perfect example is a short story that is required reading for an English class; someone could read the entire story and remember all the significant plot points. That should earn them a C. Someone who truly masters the class’s material would understand the short story’s underlying meaning, its symbolism, its comments on today’s society – the essence of the thought makes that story more than just ink on a page. And if I were a teacher of said English class, I would not stand to agree with someone who believes they deserve an “above average” grade for completing my basic directions, yet failing to take everything to its logical conclusion.
On the complete other side of the spectrum, I have to admit feeling guilty sometimes in the discussion of effort versus grade point average. I am going to shed my modesty and admit that in certain class subjects, I need to put very little effort in to achieve grades that some of my peers need to pour hours of studying in to obtain. If a new grading system were to come into effect where effort translated directly into your grade, and that a C was the minimum completion reading and lecture attendance requirements, I truthfully would have achieved quite a few D’s in my college tenure. This is a thought that bothers me, yet I cannot find a logical solution that would satisfy the expectations of both students and teachers on the subject of grades.
But to end on a happier note, I fully agree with those in the article that wish for grades to take a back seat to the enjoyment of learning. I remember my gradeschool experiences of stressing over grades, a habit that followed me well into my sophomore year of college. While I learned the required material, my enjoyment of the subject matter was perfectly correlated with my grade in the class. Fortunately for me, this is a routine that I’ve managed to dig my way out of. Now as a graduating senior, I have had the wonderful experience of electives and audited courses, sitting and learning for the pure joy of new information, and knowing that my final results in these classes have an insignificant effect on my career goals.
To me college is a time to expand and really see who you are and what you want to do with life. It’s an achievement to get into a college; an accomplishment. All the hard work that you put in from kindergarten to 12 grade senior year finally was all worthwhile when you get the envelope that says you got into the college that you wanted. I agree that college, just like every year of school, should be hard. School is not easy, kindergarten is easier than 6th grade, 6th grade is easier than junior year, and junior year is easier than freshman year in college. I’m not saying that by the time you get to college it should be easier, but I also think that it is totally wrong to want kids to receive lower grades.
I know from experience, where I grew up, school was very difficult, almost cut throat. Pressure to get into college, receive good grades, and be better than other districts was pushed into us all our life. Sadly, this mentality took ill to some kids who even resorted to suicide who could not cope with the pressure. So I understand what it says in the article about wanting to achieve higher grades than even friends around you. People who you should be happy are getting good grades suddenly are threats to taking your rating percent tile in school. I maybe was naive thinking that this would be over in college. I guess not.
In college I think that it should be hard to get good grades, just like every other year in school. Grades are not, and should not, be given to people who do not work for them- they should not be handed over on a silver platter. On the other hand, if you work your ass off for a grade and do all the work and then some, you should not be receiving a lower grade than what you deserve just because others around you are also working their butts off too. I admit, I am guilty of the advantages of being at a large university like Penn State. I scope out before i schedule each semester what teachers are easier than others, or what classes are nicer. I like to think of it as using my resources and not really cheating people who deserve better grades than me. I mean, everyone does it. (Not making it right though)
I think it is out of control that Princeton is putting almost a ‘cap’ on A’s. To say that only 35% of people are allowed to get A’s in each large department is ridiculous. What if that 36% tile kids did just as much work as the kids just one percent higher? You’re giving a deflated grade to someone who deserves an A.
I think that it should not be up to the university saying who gets A’s and who does not, but rather the teacher. The teachers should have the power to hand out the grades necessary to each student.
I agree with Professor Greenberger when she says that the sense of entitlement that some students feel can be contributed to increased parental pressure, a heightened sense of achievement anxiety, competition among peers and family members, and most of all, the increasingly competitive job market. I think that we need to keep this in mind when criticizing students for their attitudes towards grades. For me, I definitely feel this heightened pressure. As an Elementary Ed major, I’m extremely stressed as I am constantly reminded that I have picked a career path that is one of the most competitive out there. It may not be the most intellectually stimulating career, or one that pays a high six figure salary, but it is one of the most desired positions out there and I constantly have that in mind as I take challenging courses in college. I agree as a future teacher that maybe grade entitlement has become slightly inflated and that most students do not deserve to complain about grades that they receive and probably deserve, but on this topic I am going to have to pull from my own experiences and side on behalf of the students. I, like many people who have responded to this blog entry so far, was a straight A student in high school and throughout my entire life. I worked hard for these grades, and I work hard in college as well. The difference is that in high school I worked my absolute hardest and got A’s and in college I work even harder and am lucky if I can pull off a 3.4. While some professors may argue that this is the grade I rightfully deserve, I have to argue that they do not take some factors into account. For example - many professors, although they will adamantly argue to the contrary, have extremely specific expectations. Although my English paper may receive an A+ from one professor for an artistic work of art, another may consider it a wordy and pretentious load of crap and slap a C onto it. I’ve found myself catering to a certain professor’s biases as I answer an essay question or write a paper, and some people simply are not good test takers. I think it’s funny that the professors who conducted this study are also undoubtedly the same ones who criticize No Child Left Behind (who doesn’t criticize it?) for its high expectations of students and its reliance on test scores - well most college courses that I’ve taken have relied on exam scores alone for grades. Maybe I’m biased because I struggle with grades and work hard – but I’ve experienced firsthand the intense pressure from family and peers to get good grades, and I know that it’s not a good feeling when I work really hard to succeed and the assessment of my efforts are based on how well I perform on a high-stakes exam.
I totally agree that there is somewhat of a grade inflation going on right now in Universities, and this issue is made very evident with the significant increase in percentage of students with A averages. As a student, I would like to use my opinions and say why I believe this is so. I predict that this is so because the increasingly competiveness of graduate schools, and employment opportunities. As a student, I feel compelled to receive A’s in all of my classes, and if I do not I feel like I am currently not an achiever, and that I will not be successful in the future and that makes me feel rather sad. So I always strive for A’s, and nothing less. In graduate schools especially doctorate programs, medical school and law school it is extremely competitive to be accepted for admittance, with small class sizes, there are just not enough spaces allotted for the amount of students who desire admissions. In addition, it appears that graduate schools favor individuals with higher GPA’S and that there are like certain GPA cut-offs. As a result, we college students are pressured with such high demands by future employers and graduate schools to make these A’s, and quite frankly its very stressful and tiring.
Also to be eligible for certain awards and honor’s you have to have an A average and many students want to receive these honors and awards of prestige so they work hard to receive an A. Sometimes students who are at the border of an A and B often times, meet with a professor in order to see if they can do some extra- credit in order to make sure they will get the better grade. This is all due to society’s pressures on us, and although this may be a serious issue, people need to understand where this is coming from. If there was not so much competitiveness, and if human- capital resources were not so limited I am pretty sure that this would not be a problem and people will be a problem. But as a negative problem of all of this competiveness is that people often times loose sight of the primary goal of school which is to attain knowledge and are so caught up in receiving an A in a class. As a result, student’s attempt to run away from classes that they think would be hard, and don’t try to expand their horizons and expose themselves to new knowledge domains. I know I can personally can relate to this because when I am making my schedule I do not select hard classes if I do not have to, although I am trying not to do this anymore and I am taking classes that will expand my horizons and make me more prepared for law school.
This is an excellent choice of topic, even if it's not necessarily a race issue, though it certainly could be spun into one. It's something that's held fast to my mind for the past several years, related as it is to my perception of an overall cheapening of academia over the decades.
In reaction to the majority of responses here, which demonstrate a certain misunderstanding of the issue, I wish to point out that the issue is not simply how we think teachers should handle us, or what grades WE think we should get. The very matter at hand is that our generation's perception of what is deserved is warped. Our feelings on this matter, in and of themselves, are the problem.
In a sense, the NYT article's use of the term "entitlement" is a clever euphemism for "spoiled." The issue comes down to our perception of effort/work and what they "entitle" or deserve. Where kids once took out the trash as an obligation to pull their weight as a consuming member of a household, they are now rewarded for doing so, or are never asked to do so at all. I don't really want to digress on a tangent towards parenting issues, but the analogy is nonetheless pertinent.
I spoke of this with my father recently, in one of our engaged discussions that regrettably are few and far between. He recounted some of his college experiences, and where he felt the baby boomers stood in relation to all of this. Those who went to college, at least those he knew, still saw it as something of a big deal. It wasn't to be a game. The academia was a fortress of serious scholarship, an ocean whose waters they knew would be treacherous and difficult to navigate. One way or another he knew it wasn't going to be a walk in the park, however brilliant he in fact is.
Our generation (x or y or what have you) has a radically different view on work I feel. I don't want to be so simple minded as to say "we've had it easy." Not all of us got everything from santa that we asked for, this is not the sort of spoiling I'm referring to. I think the psychological substrates are much deeper and more complicated. In a sense, we're a generation of dreamers that are in a sense more idealistic when it comes to what we do with ourselves and our time. In a way this is as beautiful as it can be complicating. The issue stems out of what we think we deserve.
Anyhow. I think it's admirable that academia has gradually altered its attitude as to what is asked of students. My mother remembers history courses wherein dates and minutia were to be memorized by rote, and little real engagement with the material or essential overall understanding were engendered. It's fantastic that real thought and understanding are, in most professor's minds, the goal. What is asked for is not always just a right or wrong answer, but effort and critical, creative thought. As great as this is, it can be equally confounding. Effort and thought are less easy to evaluate in their ambiguity. They are to some extent debatable.
But in the end, this is not high school, this is college. What you were used to in high school should be irrelevant. This is a different ball park altogether, and based on what goes on in American high schools, it damn well should be. The absolute hardest that you put forth in high school is not enough, and it shouldn't be. I got straight A's in high school with little effort, and State High is one of the better schools in the country, and despite being public, is highly preparatory in its nature. Freshman year at Penn State was a major wake up call. The fact of the matter is, if you're frustrated because you can't get As the way you once did, then consider dropping out of college. Perhaps it's not for you! Not everyone belongs here, and not everyone needs to be here, which is another catastrophic trend I won't get into here. There are plenty of kids who would love nothing more than to be here to learn, and they deserve your seat!
Ultimately, you'll know if it is indeed right for you. Don't assume you deserve an A based on fulfillment of requirements or displaying an effort to take issues up with a teachers. C's earn degrees, as Sam says, and if a degree is what you're here for, take your C's and get the hell out of here. If you want more, let's say you want to pursue graduate studies (God forbid), it will take a scholarly engagement of an altogether different character. In this case, it's not about the degree, it's about the material itself and your love for it, and a love of learning and absorbing it. When that sort of attachment to your studies has grown in you, you'll know it, it clicks! When I got there, As fell off of trees, and it didn't necessarily feel like I was busting my balls anymore. Granted, I was working at all times, but it was a pleasure.
Really, how could you not love learning? How could you not relish the chance to sit in a classroom with a bottle of water or a cup of coffee or tea and amass knowledge and understanding? Moreover, how could you not love being lost in the pages of a text and know you have few other responsibilities this evening? Yes I know, I'm a "dork," a "nerd." Well, maybe being a nerd is what it takes to be an A graded student. If you can't live with that, then by all means, be somewhere else! Be gone with you!
Like Sam said on the blog this really has nothing to do with race and ethnicity but he posted it on the blog so I’m going to write about it. If this so called grade inflation is true then I would love to see it. I’m not too picky when it comes to my grades, I get what I get. Anytime I have done poorly in a class I know exactly why I have done poorly and anytime I have received a good grade I know why that is the case as well. I have once went to a professor to try and get a grade bumped up and the only reason was because I had failed the course. I knew why I failed and exactly what I could have done to get that one percent that would of gave me a passing grade. I knew I had messed up and all I tried to do was reason with the professor and tell him what was going on in my life and why I had neglected his class and no matter what I said he would not budge and give me that one percent I needed to pass. I’m sorry but I feel it was complete bull shit and I would love to know how these other students around the country are getting these inflated grades. A lot in this world is based on grades you receive which is how this world is I just wish it was different. If your are the kind of student who just gets by in high school by doing a few assignments and a project here or there and does okay on the tests and has a C average at the end of high school then you might have severely damaged your chances at reaching your future goals. You may not get into the major you want because your grades were not good enough even though you may have a passion for doing whatever that major is later in life. Had you known getting a B in high school English rather then a C- meant you could continue that dream may have made you do two homeworks that you blew off or study for a test rather then just winging it the day of. College it just gets worse. Why should it matter if I passed a physiology course if the major I am in is crime law and justice and I am going to pursue a career in law enforcement. I think too much of how you are judged coming out of college is based on the grades you got in all your classes rather then the ones that have to do with your major and career goals. If we just based what jobs people had on their passion and ability to carry out that job I think our country would be much better off.
I am a little terrified by the prospect of a grade-deflation policy. Striving for A's is hard enough as it is, but to compete for them so vigorously may cause chaos. Then again, it may end up making Penn State a more academically rigorous school, but it already is pretty rigorous in the first place. It also could have the opposite affect and cause grades to just deflate and no one strive for that A. That New york Times article seem to have hit home with me as a student. I have been on the receiving end of less than an A when I most definitely think that I deserved an A, and the professor was a little less than obliging. It is hard when you put so much work into something but do not receive the grade you want or deserve. I know professors see it differently, and while they say they like giving out A's, too many As looks suspect. Students have a sense of entitlement because to balance their course load and get everything done at the same time is a challenge in itself. Time management is an elusive skill that many students struggle with, myself included. To be rewarded with that A is all we ask for when we slaved over a paper or studied our asses off for a test.
It is true that we went through grade school looking for high grades, and not really taking in what we were learning in our classes. Why? Well, we knew that colleges would only be looking at our grade point averages and not the content of our classes. Those standardized tests we all had to suffer through like the SAT for example, told us to aim for the highest score, work hard and read things without any substance and go for the perfect 2400. So, yes, we were brainwashed into thinking that the higher the grade the better we achieved. Although, my teachers in high school always reminded me everything would be much harder in college, but I just figured if you work harder you'd do well. I am definitely pressured by my parents to get the highest grades I can, and Cs are not acceptable at all. I agree with Jason Greenwood in the New York Times article; if someone works hard they deserve a high grade. Students may be reading less that doesn't necessarily mean they are not trying hard in their classes. Genuine interest in a field is why student pursues a major in the first place, but there are always those classes students just have to suffer through to fill requirements. If students could find themselves less involved with how much grades matter to themselves, their family, and life after college, they could possible enjoy their experiences in the class rooms.
The issue of grade inflation and trying to bring grades down to meet some sort of percentage quota is something that really irritates me. My teacher within the criminology department was talking about how they were going to make the curriculum across the board in the Criminology classes more difficult to bring grades down because they have been going up in the past few years. In a way, I understand why the administration would think that this is a problem; it makes their school look not as prestigious if all the grades are really good. It almost says, hey if all these kids can get A’s, every one else probably could too. Yet, I think the administration is missing the point on what college is suppose to be about. It’s all about teaching young students how to be prepared to go off and do what they want to do in their life. If you want to be an engineer, and this school gives you the education to do that, why does it matter if someone got an A instead of a B. If you have retained the knowledge to be an excellent engineer, the grade should not matter, it’s the material that you have retained is what counts. If the administration feels that the curriculum is not preparing students properly for their careers, then I could see why they would possibly want to change things and possibly make it more difficult. Yet, to just change something because more people are becoming successful at it, doesn’t make to much sense to me. My theory on why grades are going up is the vast amount of information on the internet. I will not lie; I have been saved many a time by using wikipedia to find answers to questions I had no idea the answers to. Im a Political Science major, and Oyez and Wikipedia do all the work for you basically when it comes to getting the information that is necessary for Supreme Court Cases. My friends have facebook groups where they discuss problems to homework sets. Just the amount of answers the internet has has made getting good grades much easier than in the past. The material really hasn’t changed, it’s just the technology has. I also think getting an A is much more important now than it was in the past as well. My sisters would not have gotten into Penn State with the grades that they received, but were able to because of the time that they graduated high school. More and more people are going to college and grad school, which forces students to be more and more competitive to get the grades necessary to be accepted into the schools they want to be in.
Grade inflation is expected in this hard pressed society. There is an increased pressure for students and adults to do well, because supposedly grades get you places. I mean I know that I should argue for the stopping of grade inflation because it is letting more students get As. I know that there are more professors who would rather give As than Fs. I have also taken many classes that have very low averages, and thus everyone has points added to their grades. Technically speaking this is stupid because the people did receive As on the exam, even though there was a high rate of failures. Thus people who may have normally gotten a C in the exam get the same A as the person who actually got an A. This is extremely unfair to the people who are actually smart and understood the material. Obviously, however, if the average was that low it should be curved. I am not going to lie, I like having my classes curved because it does boost my G.P.A. It today’s society, a 3.0 is almost considered average. You have to have a 3.7 or 3.9 to be considered competitive which really sucks. I mean I work so much harder in college cause I am consistently paranoid that someone better than me is going to beat me out in the future. This paranoia is sadly a driving force in many people’s minds. I think professors understand that, and thus they make sure that average of a class is around a B- rather a C, like it should be.
What I think is extremely unfair, however, is the concept of deflation that Princeton and other Ivy League schools are doing. It is not fair that a person who actually did get an A, does not receive that grade because too many other people got higher As. It is ludicrous to take away someone hard work. This also demotes the concept of working with other student to better understand the material taught in class. I am not going to lie, if a professor told that only a certain amount of people are allowed to receive As in a class, I would not be helping my classmates in school work because I know that they could potentially take away my A. It is sad just how much people worry about one’s GPA because in the long run I do not think that it will matter as much as we give it credit for. There are many other factors that important such as one’s people skills, ambition, hard work and other such matters. In summation, grade inflation is expected because of the increase pressure people put on you now but in the long run it will not matter.
I think it is ridiculous that A’s are so easy to obtain in many classes these days. I do not want to complain about easy classes but I think the standard for an A has simply gone down. Many times it is the teacher who has layed out what is necessary to get an A in their class. Perhaps it is due to the set quota’s that were mentioned but in a research based school like Penn State I really don’t think many teacher’s care about making their class particularly difficult, especially if it is an introduction course. For example, I took an introductory entomology class last semester as a biology science gen ed that must have been the easiest class I have ever taken. The teacher was interesting but all you had to do to get an A was show up to class for attendance and do well on the tests, but here’s the catch, the test consisted of fifty multiple choice questions. These questions were simply pulled from a bank of maybe 70 questions that we were allowed access to for practice. So as you can see in all the students were basically given the test in advance; as if that wasn’t enough we also had two one page papers to write and plenty of extra credit opportunities to boost up our grade. I think teacher’s feel more accomplished when students do well in their class as if that directly correlates to their teaching ability. Another reason I believe the number of A’s has increased is because of the internet and the additional sources that are so easily available to every student. I am sure that millions of students have at least once used the internet to help them get a higher grade in a class; whether it is for homework help or googling an answer for an online test, having computer and internet access is key to success. Finally, although I do not believe students have become a great deal smarter in recent years I do think college is being taken more seriously. Years ago it was common for someone to graduate high school and go straight into the work force. Today college has become so much more important for anyone to obtain a job with a high paying salary and therefore more students go to college. With this in mind there is more competition and so the best of the best are the ones who will get the highest paying job position. When considering why A’s may have gone up in the past 3 years you could relate that to the current recession. Maybe less people are able to afford to pay for their kids college or get loans so students take it just that much more seriously when they do get to school.
After reading the “A” article, my thoughts are kind of all over the place. I definitely am one of those students at Penn State that tend to bug my professors about my grades. I honestly only do it though when I feel I absolutely deserved a better grade then I received. I definitely think it stems from how my high school teachers dealt with grading. They gave out A’s a lot more willingly than my college professors. Also, in high school you receive number grades which actually gives you 11 chances to get an A ranging from 90-100, rather than just either an “A-“or an “A”. Personally, I think it is better that students have this “self-entitlement” and want to fight for their grades versus them just not caring what so ever and settling for just whatever they get. If students just always accepted every grade their professors gave them with no questions or complaints, well that would just be quite boring. I think the fact that A’s are so hard to get in college, especially at Penn State, that it does make students work a little harder. I also think grade deflation helps minimize cheating like Sam mentioned in the article. When you are in a class with people you know it is tempting to copy ideas and other people’s work but if you’re both competing for that “A” grade, and you know the professor isn’t going to give A’s to everyone, you are less likely to lend out your ideas and work to others. This is how education should be. I completely see where educators are coming from when they have certain criteria for an “A” grade and if it is not met to their standards then the student doesn’t receive an A, even if the student “tried their best” and “did everything they possibly could have to deserve an A.” I think this also applies to certain subjects and the type of class it is. I am in a statistics class which is pretty difficult considering the subject but my professor grades a lot of our assignments based on the effort we put into it. As long as we prove that we have some sort of an understanding of the concepts, she will award us with an “A” on that assignment. I do not think this works however with English classes or other classes with papers being the main assignments. Papers are very hard to grade and if the student “tries their best” and “puts in the most effort they could” it doesn’t necessarily mean they wrote an excellent paper or grasped the subject enough to satisfy the professor’s criteria. I think grade deflation is a good idea as long as professors continually let students know that B’s and C’s are good grades to get as well.
I try so hard to get an A on exams homework and for the entire course. The social world makes us think that if you get an A in a certain subject then you either mastered the subject or you are just smart. I grew up in the military and we had to move every three years which I attended different schools. Every school and their own curriculum and graded according to that. It was a big adjustment every time I moved because I wanted to get an A but I had to learn what the teachers wanted. I don’t agree with Prof. Marshall Grossman about students getting the standard requirements and getting a C. Like what is the point in me trying if all I’m going to get a C. If a professor tells me on the syllabi what to do then that is what im going to do. I don’t like the mystery in not knowing what I need to do to get an A. Im going to do what you tell me to do and expect an A. Also if I do my homework and come to class, it should be considered in my grade. Now in college many classes don’t include attendance within the grade. I just hate the fact that we have a grading system. I think we should be on a pass or fail system. It is too much power for one person to have on a student. They have the deciding factor of the rest of my like. If I get a C in a class for my major then my job or grad school may look at that as if im not that smart in the subject and not pick me. If I demonstrate knowledge of the subject then I should just pass the class. I just don’t think its fair that someone could put so much effort into a class and only receive an A. Im my criminology class last semester, I received an A- and I was two points from an A. I wanted to talk to my teacher and ask how can I get those two points but I later realized that that was the grade that I deserved. In my philosophy for a paper my teacher gave me a 76 and I knew that was wrong. I sat in his office for office hours for like two hours talking about my paper. He told me exactly what to write and I wrote it. I just didn’t understand why I only got a C. I at least deserved a B. I was so mad. His excuse was that I didn’t go above and beyond. I feel that if he would have told me that I should add more than what he told me to, then I would have. The professors have too much power and we need to lose the grading system all together.
In response to the “So you think you deserve an ‘A,’ do you” entry, I would like to mention that I agree that students are not necessarily getting smarter over the last two decades. I do believe, however, that students are buckling down and are beginning to realize that getting better grades and studying harder is beneficial in the long run, for both educational purposes and purposes regarding lifelong careers. I, on the other hand, do not really follow this notion because I just get things done for the purpose of getting them done regardless of the grade outcome. This notion should be taken rather lightly because I do at least try to avoid bad grades when possible but I will always settle for the ‘C’ just so I can avoid the ‘D.’ Look at it this way, when the entry states the “start” of his teaching in 1990 or so, it was a different time back then, in terms of both style and attitude. The eighties were fairly rebellious and that agenda had certainly carried over in the next decade. Also, who is not to say that grades are improving possibly as a result of technology? In my opinion I think that technology has made certain workloads lighter and easier to handle, hence the student body maybe feeling more motivated to complete something that would have been otherwise ignored. Do not get me wrong, though, I’m sure most people still want to be inflicted with a challenge, or a difficult assignment that will help display one’s abilities, but technology definitely, in my mind, made the decision to undergo such a task or an assignment in order to receive a reward or grade. The rest of the article, relating to school grade policies and the suppression of ‘A’ grades until really deserved is an okay idea in certain aspects. I think that it is nice and a different view if ‘A’s’ were something to be placed upon the pedestal, something that is revered over and only received for an astonishing achievement in either creativity or positive work. But, it would be a shame if the average student would not be able to receive an high grade if their achievements are not recognized enough at the highest level and are permanently belittled by higher achieving students, staff and possible future employers. On a personal level, I love getting ‘B’s’ because I never really strive for a higher grade unless my class or assignment is interesting enough to keep me motivated or involved. When I get my ‘B’s’ I feel glad all over because I feel I have achieved because I haven’t really set a standard for my self. On behalf of other people, though, they may think differently.
Allow me to being this journal with something I think a lot of students have wanted to say for a long time, standardized testing is not at all a fair way of grading. Nor is taking away grades that have been earned fairly. The entire idea of your future depending on how you do on a test is ridiculous. i know I personally ALWAYS over think every single question and answer on any exam, regardless of how comfortable I am with the material or topic. Now, I understand that standardized testing is the simplest way to test a student’s knowledge on a subject, but other assignments, activities, and effort need to be weighed equally into the overall grades. Some people are naturally better test takers, or are better at keeping their cool in moments like that, whatever, but I know a good bit of people that are simply just not comfortable with taking tests.
Do some students feel they deserve a better grade sometimes than they receive? Sure they/I do, sometimes you cannot see all the effort that goes into studying for an exam by what the grade shows. But if I a student never/rarely misses class, and participates in discussions, and has a clear understanding of what’s going on. Then why shouldn’t that count for something whether or not the syllabus says it will?
The fact that Princeton has put a quota on how many A’s can be given out is a fairly ridiculous concept. Saying that only 35% of the students at the school or in a particular class is like asking student’s to not put in all of their effort, because it means the odds of them getting an A, regardless of how much work they put in, is pretty low. 35% of a class/student body is not very much at all. Maybe this is just me, but if I were in a class and knew that only 35% of my classmates and I could get an A, I would most definitely not put in all of my effort, because I’d feel that there are clearly better students that would get that A.
Most of us are in school to further our education because we kind of enjoy learning, I do at least. But when I am constantly focused on getting the higher grades, I can rarely actually sit back and enjoy what I am learning, even though I chose my classes and my major because I enjoy the subject matter. Doesn’t this kind of defeat the entire purpose of college? We have the rest of our lives to stress out, why can we not enjoy the time we’ve got to learn about the rest of the world or the field we will be going in to. I sound like I don’t want there to be any work involved in college, this is not at all the case; I just think that administrators need to realize priorities.
This is all really twisted actually. You use to think of those students who go to class every day, do all the homework, know the professor on a first name basis, talk to the TA after every lecture, as the suck-ups; the teacher’s pet. But if you look at it differently, they are probably just trying to get that extra little something. That if I actually earn a B+ maybe, just maybe, they’ll remember how actively I participated and they’ll bump be up the next letter grade, the all important A. And this very feat happens all the time. You can tell when the end of the semester is coming near. A professor’s office hours are now a hot commodity, everyone begging and bargaining for any and every point they can.
It’s such an interesting thought. But really, it seems so obvious now after it’s been pointed out. But I guess as a student, I never really thought about how grading is done in this light. Should Penn State set some sort of quote on the number of A’s it gives out? As a student, I think not. But by looking at it from outside of a student’s perspective, maybe our university should.
But like the students in the article, it really has become the norm to feel entitled to an A if you just show the effort. If you attend all the lectures, read all of your assignments, actively participate in class, and ask for help from the TA’s or professors, one would expect to receive some sort of compensation, some sort of bonus. But if you really think about it, doing those things are the requirements of passing the class. By doing them, a student shouldn’t expect more, they should expect to get what they earn.
Our world has become so caught up in perfectionism. In high school it is engrained in your head that if you want to succeed in life, you have to get the grades, make the connections, be involved in all aspects of school (clubs, sports, government), and prepare yourself for the next level of schooling, a little place called college. Teachers would always hold the “In college, your professors will be much more difficult… not so lenient… they won’t care about your life or the fact that your alarm clock didn’t go off...” The list can go on and on. But it is hard to believe that any more. We see it firsthand every day on campus.
To go back to what Sam proposed at the beginning of his post, I don’t think that students are getting smarter. I think that students are becoming more persuasive and professors are becoming more and more “compassionate” and “layed” back. And those few profs that still hold their students to a higher level, well they’ll just be given low marks on RateMyProfessor and that’ll be the end of it.
I definitely don’t think that students are any smarter than they used to be, but I do think it’s easier for us to achieve A’s now, because of google. You don’t have to go to the library and sit there transcribing notes from it anymore. Even if you’re lazy you can get the same information as a student motivated enough to go through the hassle it used to be to get an A.
The internet also makes it a lot easier to miss class. You don’t get as far behind. Honestly, teachers that take attendance and put their notes online (such as yourself) tend to annoy me. Why should I go to class if I can read what’s being said online? Not to offend any teachers, but it seems that soon, they’ll be completely replaced with technology. It’s sad that takes the human aspect out of life.
Honestly I think this change is just. It should be easier to get A’s now. It’s no longer just scholars, doctors, scientists, and lawyers going to school. If society is going to pressure all of us to attend college (probably just so we spend money), then it should be easier for people who don’t care enough to be bothered with the mundane nonsense of school, but still want a good job. Realistically, grading is a silly concept to buy into. It’s all so arbitrary anyway.
I certainly agree that many people do not deserve the A's that they receive in school. I personally, had a very easy high school career. Many teachers thought that I had tried enough and I was on the borderline between an A and a B, and they teacher would give me an A, especially if I was well behaved and outgoing in the class. However, even though I am guilty of it, I do not think it is right, especially in a college atmosphere. College is a much more serious setting than high school, and one's future relies on college much more than high school. It is hard for many students who come from high school as typical B students, and have to meet much higher requirements in college. Many freak out and work so much harder, while others simply do not. I don't think one should be allowed to say that only a certain number of students should be able to receive a letter grad of A. But I do think that colleges need to create a fair system so that all students are equally receiving the letter grade that they deserve. I personally think that 35% if a low percentage, especially for many classes such as gen-eds, that are not specific to a certain major. Many people use these classes as gpa boosters and work very hard in them to receive A's. It is redicullous to have students not push themselves into trying harder. Everyone is losing from undereducated students receiving better grades. The country is believed to be so intellectual because many students to off to college and get jobs. But counties such as Finland require their students to speak fluently in a variety of languages. Giving out grades fills the world with people who do not know what they are doing. If people are given grades, it allows for mistakes to happen. Undereducated people will be given jobs that they do not deserve. Many of the grading systems and teaching systems are corrupt. It can be teachers faults the majority of the time when students receive A’s. I personally know many teachers that feel bad for the students because they try hard and pay attention in class, consequently handing over grades to the students that they do not deserve. But with this, I don’t think that colleges should be able to set a number on the number of A’s they give. Students in college are now more competitive than ever nowadays. Enforcing these strict rules will most likely cause tight strung students to resort to recreational drugs such as Adderall or Ritalin. I personally know many students that resort to these drugs in order to maintain the grades that they want.
I don’t really agree with the aim of the people in charge of trying to change the way grades are being handed out, and lowering the perentage of students earning A’s. I think its completely ridiculous that there should be quotas for the amount of students that can earn a certain grade. That’s basically saying that how well you perform is entirely based on how well the people around you do, and not how well you do as a student. This leads to unnecessary competition between students and creates an environment less conducive to learning. On top of that it forces students to worry so much about grades they become obsessed with squeezing every point out of their assignments and tests instead of actually learning to better themselves or become better at their chosen vocation and better prepared for the workforce. Sam says he thinks that the jump in the number of A’s being handed out at Penn State is due to professors grading easier as opposed to students becoming smarter as a whole. While I don’t think smarter is really the word for the phenomenon, I do believe that as a whole students in this day and age try a lot harder and demand perfection from themselves a lot more, at least in the case of students whos academic goal in highschool is a college degree, and thus the majority of college students. I think the quote at the end of the article from the student from Louisiana pretty much sums up the point I’m trying to make. If a student ever feels like he or she shouldn’t give a classmate who missed a class notes to copy because they view it as “helping the competition” and potentially hurting their own chances at doing well, then something is seriously wrong with the way the class is being run. There’s a flip side to the argument, of course. In the linked article it talks about how students come to their professors demanding higher grades because they “tried hard”. From personal experience I can say “trying hard” doesn’t mean shit. The point of my base argument is not that professors should hand out good grades for subpar work, but that good work should be rewarded with good grades. Good work should not return a C to the student because their work wasn’t some spectacular masterpiece. I don’t agree at all with this quote from Professor Marshall Grossman of the University of Maryland, “I tell my classes that if they just do what they are supposed to do and meet the standard requirements, that they will earn a C,” he said. “That is the default grade. They see the default grade as an A.” A C is a 2.0, a 2.0 is not good, and earning a GPA of a 2.0 denies a student many opportunities.
I cannot even explain how many times I hear my peers around me say “Oh my God, this professor grades so hard, I put a lot of work into this paper or I stayed up night studying for this exam so why did I only get a C? I cannot seem to understand why they (myself included) make this claim when most often they had waited until the last minute to do the work.
I am not at all categorizing all college students as procrastinators but I do believe that not enough effort is placed into studying and assignments. Being a freshman I quickly realized that the way to obtain grades in high school is totally different then the way you are graded in college. In high school the teachers knew exactly what kind of student you were and you were graded mainly if you completed the assignment. Not some much on the content.
I feel students fail to realize that they have made this transition in life and would like to continue to give the minimal and expect the maximum. I hope I am not making myself seem innocent or an angel compared to other student s because that is not the case at all. I am one of those students who, w hen are unhappy with a grade tries to argue their way to a higher grade. College is about competing to get the grade you want. In the competition you will have to compete with many other students fight for the same grade.
Oftentimes students feel they have a privilege when it comes to getting a grade. Like it is their right as a student to get the grade that they feel they deserve. If everyone got the grades they felt they deserve what would be the point of even having professor? I never knew that schools could limit on how many A’s they are allowed to give out in the school and all its colleges. That seems a little wrong to me. I would think that with these limits, when grading professors would have a fear of using too many A’s out of the pot.
College is not suppose to be easy, student are here to get educations. You do not get grades for coming to lecture, focusing in class and so forth. Those are things that students should know and understand as the responsibilities of being in college. At Penn State many professors will take the time and listen to a complaint about a grade. Most professor do not want to be seen as the pushover or easy graders. Most are seen as the exact opposite. Professor Sam Richard always says, “C’s earn degrees” and they do so stop complaining when you get a C and instead think of ways you can change of improve for the next time. Students are not entitled to any letter grade but the grade for the work they put out. The design, thought, interest, and work ethic put into the assignment will determine their grade.
I think that the policy of grade deflation, in some ways, makes a lot of sense. I mean, it would seem wrong if a teacher just gave out As to every single student in their classes. There is no way that everyone puts in the same amount of effort or has the same quality of work as a result. On the other hand, it is also unfair to limit the amount of high grades that should be given to students. If someone deserves a high grade because of the work that they have done or the amount of studying they have done for an exam or the amount of research they did for a paper, then that person should get a good grade. Plain and simple. No teacher should have to be put in the position of trying to decide whether or not to give a student an A or a B for the ridiculous reason that they don’t want administration officials to get mad at them for giving out the A. It is just absolutely absurd. Not everyone deserves an A on each assignment, project, paper, or whatever else, but students who do their best work also do not deserve to be punished after putting in tons of effort.
I was not necessarily surprised to read Professor Greenberger’s thoughts, but I also really disagree with them. Getting a C in a class would get me into huge trouble with my parents. I don’t think that students necessarily deserve an A just for completing all of the required readings and lectures and such, but I think they should get a B for doing everything that is asked of them. Receiving an A, especially in a college course, is high praise that means you have gone above and beyond just the average student and not only completed everything that you were assigned but also did a very good job on those assignments. Plus, effort should be accounted for, especially if the class grade is based a lot on tests. Since some people are better test takers than others, it is only fair to have alternative assignments in which students can excel.
Professor Brower’s opinion that lectures “are meant to help students think differently about their classes and connect them to real life” is true, I believe, but I disagree with him that grades should take a back seat to that connection. Grades are important to anyone who cares about their schooling and their futures. If grades really did take a back seat to really learning and understanding and applying all of the information then there would be no point of teachers even giving out grades because no one would even care what they received. There would be no Dean’s List, no graduating with honors; the whole education system as we know it would cease to exist.
Why should increasing A’s at Universities be considered a problem? Students may not be getting “smarter” but perhaps they are adapting to the system, making it work for them in a sense. Where is the fault in that? Why penalize students for bettering their performance? I just do not see the logic in establishing grade quotas and such. As a freshman at Penn State I have seemed my workload jump considerably from high school. I have spent countless hours studying and reading in pursuit of A grades…and I should be penalized for that? I am the first to admit that I have utilized “shortcuts” where applicable. By “shortcuts” I mean tools like spark notes and other tools utilized. I do not view this as cheating; I am simply using options available to me in order to succeed.
Technology has enabled students to perform tasks faster and more efficiently. As such, I believe that students are allowed to take advantage of such opportunities that are available to them! Take this real life example; I am working at a job, and a particular dilemma has two routes that I can take in order to solve it. Option A is decidedly Old School, taking everything by the book, although I will reach the solution later. Option B is takes advantage of a particular technology that allows me to complete my task that much sooner. In this sense, the choice is a no brainer, so why should schoolwork be any different? With so many tasks to complete at Penn State, I need to get each done with maximum efficiency in the least amount of time. Therefore, I am going to take advantage of any option that will expedite getting an A. I want to make it very clear that I am not advocating cheating of any kind, or any dishonest methods of getting ahead for that manner. Cheating is completely wrong and should be punished to the fullest extent. That being said, taking advantage of technology in order to make tasks easier in order to get an “A” should be used. It is ridiculous to think that students should shun options available to complete tasks quicker.
Students getting more A’s is not a sign of decline in academia. Rather, it is a sign that students are becoming more savvy and adaptable. With the previous generation effectively destroying our economy, it should be a positive sign that the future generation is more adaptable to their situations, and I for one think curtailing this new wave should NOT happen. School is my job, and I need to complete tasks related to my job quickly, if I do not, someone else is gaining a leg up on me in pursuit of opportunities, and I am simply not willing to let that happen.
After reading this article and blog I have had a few mixed emotions about them. First, I was completely shocked and unaware that some schools are limiting the number of A’s that students can receive in a department. I think this is completely wrong and immoral. I know that A’s must be earned through hard work and commitment however; if someone deserves an A they should not be denied that because of a specific quota. I feel that some of these Ivy League schools are taking apart of this practice because they want to have a higher standard, however, if everyone’s work is A worthy everyone deserves the opportunity to achieve an A.
Also hearing that students are becoming more competitive and less helpful because of this A quota I think is an extreme negative. I think people learn the best in an environment where everyone is willing to work together and help one another not sabotage one another. Therefore, although a bit of healthy competition never hurt anyone and keeps us on our toes I think it is wrong that the education system is having such a transformation as to where students are rooting for another students down fall.
This also makes me wonder what teachers have to do in a situation when there have been too many A’s given out and they know a certain student deserves an A what do these teachers do? Since I am working towards becoming a future teacher, I can honestly say I hope I am never put in such a situation because education should be about more then just giving and receiving grades.
Another emotion that came about from the article was that I definitely could relate to the idea that grades are becoming such an important issue in the minds of students. I am pressured by the ideas of grades everyday, even if my parents do not put that pressure on me. Why are students so focused on earning a grade? Instead of implementing a procedure on how many A’s can be given out maybe schools should work to show that learning is way more important and valuable then the letter grade earned at the end of the course. I feel like so many students care so much about a grade that they loose focus of why they are in school. The more students can focus on learning and less on grades is when the true learning can come about. I feel the practice of the A quota only goes against this value. Therefore, I really do not like the idea of it. I wonder if one-day colleges will change their views to focus less on grades and more on actual achievement? Probably not in the near future but it is a nice thought.
I am not going to lie. I actually think colleges and universities across the nation have gotten “easier”. However, I am torn at the reason why. I remember before starting college, my dad made me scared to death that I was going to fail. Being the perfectionist and over-achiever I tend to me, I was nervous about coming to the main campus of Penn State. However, after arriving, I had a difficult first semester (due to too much partying and worrying about irrelevant things). I still, however, received a 3.40 GPA. After this, my dad was astonished! He could not believe I did “that well” my first semester and was sure my grades would decline. I was a little more “eh” on the issue because I felt I could do better than that. So, I worked a little harder the next semester, aka I went to class. I ended the semestre with a 3.94. After that semester, my lowest GPA was my first semester this year, my senior year, aka my first semester being 21. Yet, I do not feel like I really “busted my ass” as my dad made it seem like I would.
So, my conclusion is, either I am very intelligent, college has gotten easier, or professors have become better teachers. I know I am not dumb. I have always been able to just “get it” and I have always helped other students learn. I have been, in fact, the go to girl on some issues in various classes. However, I do not think I am THAT smart that I continually get A's in classes and watch others struggle. Professors, sure they are very smart, but is it possible that education has gotten SO great that professors can now magically teach better than ever? Maybe? Who knows. It could also be that the technological upgrades have dramatically helped. Maybe computers, the world wide web, and power point has made it easier for us to learn and understand. There is a massive difference in teaching techniques than in previous years. Or, maybe the last suggestion, college has gotten easier. Professors have gotten lenient. Maybe technological advances, such as scantron, have hurt as as much as helped us. I honestly have only ever used ONE blue book in my time here at Penn State and that was for my classical mythology final freshman year (my only A that semester and my first A in college). Maybe, as a result, we have been receiving more multiple choice and true and false exams rather than more subjective, open ended exams. We can guess on those exams, but on essay exams, we have to actually apply our knowledge and understanding of the material. Therefore, most of us can half ass exams and still do well. But, you cannot always bullshit your way through a essay exam. I guess we will never know the real answer, unless things begin to change.
I think that kids have learned to expect A’s their entire lives and taught that if they work hard, they will inevitably receive an A. In my opinion, grades suck. They distract me from actually listening to the professor because I am constantly rushing to copy down every word he or she says. I simply don’t have time to think about the information I am copying down until after class, where I often don’t feel like re-reading over my notes until the exam. I love my classes where I can just sit back and really listen to what I am being taught. Frankly, I find that I do better in the classes where I can simply listen as opposed to the classes where I am frantically copying down notes. Not only are grades distracting, too much emphasis is also placed on grades. For students, it’s hard not to feel pressure from parents, teachers, and future employers about grades. It seems as if good grades are the entrance to other good things: getting into a good college, having a good job, etc.
As an advertising major in the School of Communications, I have found that most, if not all of my professors, teach to the exam. I often find myself going to class because if I don’t, I won’t do well on the exam. There are normally three exams throughout the semester, and many students come to the class because professors will inform them of the specific material that will appear on the exam. For the past four years, I have found that many students memorize the information that will appear on the test, and as soon as they finish with the exam, they forget the material to make room for the material they need to memorize for the next exam. In this respect, I think the education system needs to be rethought. Many teachers teach to the exam, and many students only think about the grade they will receive on the exam.
College is all about learning more that what you already know, and finding out that there’s always more to learn. It’s not always important to know everything, but it is important to always be intellectually curious. Many students feel like all they have to do is get an “A” on an exam and that’s that. Bottom line: students nowadays do feel a sense of entitlement to their “A” because that’s what they’re used to. Classes at Penn State reinforce this notion, or at least the classes that I have taken. I’m not sure if putting a limit on the amount of A’s is the best idea, but I think that at least the issue of grades is being discussed openly.
In responding to the blog, So You Think Deserve an “A,” Do You? Is that a lot more of the students at universities and colleges have higher expectations then they did years ago. Many of the students believes that since they either their them or their parents paying for the education, then should automatically get an A. It doesn’t work like that and I believe that you a student should get what they earn. Sometimes, a student may struggle with the material and they went and discussed the problems with their professors or instructors and studied and gotten tutored but they still didn’t catch on to the material fast enough should get the benefit of a doubt. Not saying they should be granted an A, but maybe if they are few points away then gives them a curve. When I was in high school, I received mostly straight A’s and had a 4.0 cumulative, and I was in programs like the Who’s Who Among American High School Students for 2 editions, I was in The Presidential Classroom Scholars Program, Honor Roll every year in high school, and I played football and did boxing as well. What I am saying that I was really competitive in high school and came her in college at Penn State University and dealing with more students like myself that is competitive. Many of the students don’t want to receive a failing grade even if they know that they deserve it. Some students believes that they can have the same mentality in high school and bring it to college or a university and have complete work assignments, and the professor or the instructor should past them on. Again it doesn’t work like that, a student get the grade he or she deserves. Professors and Instructors of universities and colleges have to show fairness to all of their students and should not show exceptions. It would be unethical for a professor or an instructor to do other than that. Another reasons that I believe some students want to get A’s in every class, is that some never gotten a grade lower than A during their time in elementary, middle, and high schools. When a student further their education in at a university or a college, and receive an F for an exam or a final semester grade, some students don’t know how to deal with it. Let me talk about some Ivy League schools such as Princeton University. According to the blog, Princeton University is ranked number one for Ivy League schools, and they had established a grade deflation policy which limited A’s to an average of thirty five percent across the departments. By enforcing that policy at Princeton University place a lot of pressure to the students. Other Ivy League schools like University of Pennsylvania, Harvard University, Stanford University, are really competitive when it comes to getting A’s as well. I am going to leave a suggestion for students that might help study smarter not harder.
I just recently transitioned from high school to college, so I have experienced the grading differences. I have always gotten straight A’s ever since I was a tike in kindergarten. Coming to college I experienced my first failing grades and even got a C in one of my classes. My mentality was that I did my work and I worked really hard on it, so why wasn’t I seeing better grades. I even would write English papers and send them to my parents and sister in law school to correct them. Yet, my professor never gave me a grade higher than a B. I couldn’t figure out what was going on. There were kids in the class who didn’t use punctuation in correct places and spelled simple words wrong, but I was the one getting a B while they were receiving A’s. I think in college students do not realize how harsh professors grade. We come from high school where we have mastered the grading. We know how teachers grade and certain tricks to get the A that we want. However, I feel a lot of college professors grade extremely unfairly and do not give A’s to prove a point that college is difficult and we are not yet at the college level. What is wrong with giving a student an A who really deserves one? I do not think they should limit the amount of A’s. That is just absurd. If you are going to a difficult university and working your butt off for hours on an assignment and only receive a C, why would any student want to work harder to get a better grade. Especially if they know they will just end up with possibly a C+. Teachers in high school aim for all of their students to not only pass, but get the best grade they can achieve. It’s sad that now in college, one grade level higher, you are getting low grades just because there are too many A’s being thrown around. Is it really bad if a child is succeeding that much? Good for them if they worked hard and deserve a good grade. I am recently going through this semester and need a 3.0, not cumulative, but only for the semester. Because of one of my teachers who keep giving me low grades on essays, I may not end up with that grade. And yet I work on my assignments from the moment I get back from class and into the wee hours of the night. The excuse the teacher gives is the first assignment is graded the hardest and all assignments after that grade how much we’ve improved. Even my peers who have seen my work agree that my work has improved and they see a difference. I think some professors need to stop being hard headed and put themselves in our shoes sometimes when they are grading.
I understand that grade inflation has become a major issue in the minds of professors at universities. And I do believe that students feel entitled to certain grades because that is what they are used to getting in the past. For example if I get A’s I expect to get A’s in other classes as well. If I don’t I internally think that it must be the class. But where did this start? Why do I feel that if I am good in one subject I should do well in all. If I take a moment to step back it doesn’t make sense. I know my strengths are in classes like English, Spanish and Psychology. I am not a Math or Science person and if I know that why do I expect as high of grades in those classes as well? I don’t know. I think something happened in my generation and I think it all started early on in my generations schooling. I remember in first grade I got the same grade as another student for drawing a picture that looked nothing like what we were required to draw. We are praised at an early age that everything we do is good. When the fact is sometimes others perform better then us. Take tee-ball for example, everyone gets a trophy. It creates false expectations like that of grades in classes. In my mind a C is unacceptable but by definition it means average not failing. So why do students always feel entitled to get grades deemed above average? The reason is we feel the pressure to succeed, average doesn’t cut it into the real world. We are taught at an early age you must get good grades so you can get into a respectable college and then get a respectable job. It is a competition. I know personally I try to avoid classes that are known to be hard or certain professors that are hard, its because I know if I take them over another easy class or teacher I will be at a disadvantage, because in the end, grades are what count- that is the first thing that employers look at. However I do think that the grade inflation that is taking place ends up hindering all of us because we all expect to get these high marks and for the most part do, we then don’t know how to differentiate ourselves. So to do so we get involved in clubs and other activities that make us stand out, which in turn makes our grades suffer, so teachers have to or feel the need to grade less harsh because of students busy schedules. This circle really never stops. The system that complains about grade inflation is the initial cause of it. I don’t know how to stop it either though, because it has become an expectation and will be a shock to students no matter how it is broken. Making steps like Princeton did is an idea- slowing lowering the expectation of A’s.
Grade inflation is definitely something that all of us as students have come to accept. We are taught from an early age that it is important to do well in school, so that we can do well on the SAT’s, so that we can get into a prestigious college, so that we can get good grades, so we can get a great job, and so on. It is a cycle that is really hard to break and it comes down to a lot more than just a grade on a test. For example, how do we compare the valedictorian from a high school with a graduating class of 700 to a valedictorian of a high school with a graduating class of 300? How can we compare the SAT scores of a student who came from a school with all the resources in the world with a student who barely had pencils and paper? How can we even compare students from different schools who had completely different teachers? The answer is, we can’t and we shouldn’t - obviously there will always be someone who comes out on top based upon the advantages they had. When it comes to grades on a paper or test here in college, it is the same thing. With papers, the grading is subjective, and what one teacher thinks is an A paper can be a C paper to another, based upon their rubrics. Teachers can also teach the same exact class with the same materials and make up entirely different exams. How is it fair to compare a student who got an A on an Astronomy test because it was direct memorization with a student who got a C because the test required more application and analysis? The grading system is not fair, nor will it ever be, but students will always be concerned with their grades. It’s really hard for us, who know where we work depends a lot on our GPA, to sit in a class where a professor tells us “C’s earn degrees.” For some people, yeah, sure, maybe. But what about needing a minimum GPA to even enter the major? If I got C’s in all of my classes, my semester GPA would be a 2.0. That won’t get me into Penn State’s College of Education or many other programs on campus. In addition, C’s won’t get me the job I want. The employers who I want to work for are going to look more highly of me if my GPA from Penn State is a 3.8 versus a 2.0. In fact, it is rumored that many employers have a set minimum score for GPA and exams that pertain to your career before they even look at your resume. Therefore, I don’t think the grade inflation is something that is simply a product of the education system. It directly connects back into employers as well. Yes, I might be able to pull off getting the degree I want from Penn State while getting some C’s, but I will never be able to get the job that I want. Does that also mean that my grades should be inflated? No. And I do only expect to get what I put in. But when there are so many other factors that contribute to the grades every student here gets, it’s hard not to think your effort deserves an A.
I felt like this article is really correct on what we as students believe today. We feel that if we attend all of the classes for a course and do the work we will receive at least a B if not an A. I believe that this mentality is built in us from our k-12 experience. I can say I went through elementary school with no problems and then middle and high school with very few problems with academics. I could pass all my classes with A's as long as I put in enough work. That did not mean that all of them even required a lot of work. During our school years I think we learn how to perfect how much work we need to do to get an A. As students going through the school system we are taught the the higher the grade the better it is for you because then you have a better chance of getting into college, and a good college, and the one you want to go to because we had the grades to prove that you should be there. I feel like grades do not necessarily prove that you should be at a school because grades systems vary from school to school teacher to teacher. It is hard to compare everyone on the same range. While we are in the school years we also think we have to get the great grades from pressure from our parents and also from the competition with one another. Our world today is a very competition driven society. We feel that we need to compete against everyone and be the best. So, I think that when we come to college we feel the same way, we feel that we need to make the best grades and try to diversify our selves against our peers so that we stand out in order to get the jobs when we go out into the real world. We have in embedded in our heads that A's earn degrees and jobs and happiness. Not C's earn degrees like Sam says. I feel like I am a perfect example of this when I was in the early school years I constantly felt like I had to get straight A's and every since I got them my parents expected them from me so when I came to college I felt like I should be getting all As again because I knew I was smart. The fact of the matter is that you cannot expect to get As in everything you do and college is a lot harder than high school ever was. The world will not end if you do not get an A. As long as you try your hardest and pass the classes that is what should matter. This is the attitude I have adapted to because if I constantly worried about every little thing I would be making myself sick. We should be working hard but also enjoying ourselves into college because we will be going into the work force in a few years where we will not have this time of our lives back. So I think we need to just relax and realize that A's do not mean everything an A-, Bs, and Cs can be just as good if we feel that we worked hard and it was the best we can do.
I agree that students today believe that if they work hard they deserve an A. I also believe that this is due, in part, the school systems which have started babying students just to make sure they have “good self esteem.” Schools don’t need to help kids with self esteem, they can learn themselves, many people before them did so without the help of the school.
Parents have also become a problem. Some of the more controlling parents watch their child work very very hard on a project. Then they may see a grade of a C or B. They then actively fight against the teacher who gave out the grade. I say this because I have seen it happen a couple times already. Of course, this no longer happens in college when the children are older and the parents are far away. However, it just reinforces the thinking the teen brings with them to college – work hard and I will get an A!
My high school’s AP classes were pretty tough. Everyone wanted an A and the teachers certainly didn’t care how much you complained if you got a B or C, that was your grade. There were NO extra credit points what so ever (that was only for the cp classes). What was on the test was much harder than what was taught and most times, the teachers deliberately made the test too long (a.k.a. the only way you finish is if you go as fast as you can, but even if you do go that fast, you’ll be working until the end).
When I came to college I was freaking out – how could it get much harder? I needed to get A’s! But not to worry, it didn’t get harder – it got easier. Office hours for help if you were confused, practice tests online to see how much you know, participation grades (to boost B+’s to A’s) and, occasionally, extra credit points! I found that it is very true – if you work as hard as you can, you should get an A (in most cases). It’s A LOT of work, but I can do that. Side note: yes some courses are almost impossible, but I am generalizing and talking about MOST of my classes. Side note two: A LOT of work = stress, tears, effort, almost no fun, and homework 24/7.
My mom believes I should be getting A’s – if I don’t she thinks I am probably slacking or out with some guy instead of studying (but it’s college, I accept that sometimes the A is just out of reach and I may have to settle for the dreaded B+). I have at least five good friends that I know of whose parents are the same way. It’s the parents’ mentality that ONLY A’s are acceptable, which fuel this A obsession in kids and teaches kids that A is the only good grade.
Maybe it’s the high self esteem/encouraging system that has been set up for kids, maybe it’s the controlling parents, maybe it’s even the extreme pressure put on by recruiters to be perfect because of immense competition, or maybe it’s just a new generations way of thinking, but kids/teens/young adults certainly believe that A’s are the only way. They believe that:
VERY hard work = A’s
Lots of studying = A’s
Discover (non-existent) theorem to get A’s = Straight A student
Perhaps students should instead believe that if you tried your hardest and got a B or C, then that was your best and that is what matters.
In real life, you don’t always get what you work for and you don’t always get what you deserve – you don’t want to get out into the real world and discover that for the first time.
As a future teacher I look at grades as the least important part of the education system. Knowledge should not and cannot be measured by a number, letter, or any other means of qualification. It seems strange that we are constantly told that we all have our own gifts, and to find ourselves, and be ourselves when throughout our entire lives we’re given grades and classified into groups. It would be one thing if the groups and grades were all equally admired but they are not. There are elite groups and there are inferior groups and we all obviously want to be in the elite groups. It is good to be smart and to get A’s and to do so you must be “book smart.” There is one type of smart- forget being talented in more abstract areas such as art, dance, or mechanics. Smart means that you can do math well, write good papers, and memorize vocabulary. I think that rather than changing the grading system so that rather than putting A’s on a higher pedestal and making people freak out more about them- the grading system needed to be revamped. I can’t solely come up with the ideal plan for the new grading system, but if many people get together and really, honestly try to work it out, we can change our system for the better. Starting from elementary school, more emphasis should be made on different kinds of intelligence. Children should be informed that intelligence isn’t always measured by a test or by a paper. There are so many different ways to measure intelligence and everyone has their own special gifts that they should foster to help improve the world. Someone whose special gift is to be a mechanic will never and can never become a physicist and there is no use in trying. We need mechanics just as much as we need physicists and it is not helpful to the world to look down upon the people in working classes. Think of how much unnecessary stress comes from making sure that you get an A on a class that you will never use in your life. For example, I have been beyond stressed about my exams in a class called “The Biology of Aging.” I am an elementary education major; I will not be using the biology of aging at any time in my life. Wouldn’t my time be better spent studying subjects congruent to my degree? The problem isn’t directly within the grading system. The problem is the education. If we were studying things that interested us and were useful to us we would not have such a hard time with the grades. The grades would take care of themselves.
It may be old-fashioned or it may sound like I am just saying this, but I believe whole-heartedly that students earn their grades, but I also believe that some teachers are stubborn. I don’t really understand it- I mean, the job of the teacher is to gauge how a student is performing. I can understand that some teachers are just corrupt and have their own reasons for giving out the grades they get, but what about those kids that do go to class and do read above and beyond? I hate the feeling when I know I performed to the best of my abilities and only receive an average grade, but you know what? That is part of life. People in the class out-performed me and that is that. If I feel that I did all I could have done, then honestly, I am satisfied. In elementary school, I learned a very important lesson from a teacher. I learned that the grades I receive are the grades that I earned and I really believe that. We learn a lot from our teachers growing up and that was probably one of the things that really stuck with me. I’ve always been a hard worker in school and honestly, I’ve always got good grades. I think I’ve earned good grades because I’ve tried my hardest and I’ve always been a participater. I think that we could bring this topic and tie it into race relationships. I’m sure, in the past, there has been favoritism shown towards white students by white teachers. This is all an assumption made by me but I strongly believe that there have been situations in the past were students are favored over others because of the color of their skin. Or maybe sometimes it’s the other way around- maybe teachers “feel bad” for minority students and give them more chances than a white student. On the college level, I think starting and maintaining a relationship with your professor is a very important thing especially in a large lecture class. It’s a pretty hard thing to do and I definitely think students deserve credit for doing it. When you have a relationship with your professor, they should know you on a more personal level , thus they should know how hard you are working in their class. I think grade deflation is a good idea for private schools and schools that are higher on the academic rankings. It definitely creates healthy competition between students, but there is also a worry that students will lose some of the friendship aspects of the classroom. Group projects and team work exercises are always a good idea for large classes because you get to meet new people that you might not meet otherwise.
To start off I must say that I am not going to get anywhere in my argument here because I am for both sides. Although, I am not one of the smartest individuals in any of my classes I do take my work very seriously and work very hard to receive the grade I get. I have been taught from the very beginning that hard work is everything and the rest will follow. I now know that this theory is not true and can be put to the test the first semester of your college career. Everywhere you turn you will see people working hard at work, but that does not mean their work is good enough to get an A. It just means they worked hard enough to get the grade they got on their work. It’s as simple as that. However, I do believe that if you are working as hard as you can and to the best of your ability you should be rewarded for that no questions asked. The main reason I got good grades in high school is because I worked hard to get them and it just so happened that some of the work also came easy to me. So once I got into college I tried to apply my same work skills and needless to say they really didn’t work out to well. I tried to do the whole do all my homework as best I can and read the textbook. But when I got a bad grade I never realized that all the hard work I put into this on class could lead to this just because I did not understand the material or it didn’t come easy to me. For example in my English class I worked tremendously hard. I mean I got my rough drafts done and reviewed them a week in advance to when they were due, yet my grade in the papers were not too good. But I also worked just as hard in math and since I went to office hours every chance I got and the teacher knew who I was, I did indeed receive a slightly better grade than my actual grades were.
Now my one big issue with all of this is that I think that grades are meant to be earned. Eared is the big word here. But what does that mean to professors and colleges. Does that mean working hard or does it mean just being good at what is going on in class and not having to work at all. To me I think it’s working hard and dong what you can to put the most effort into the class, but hey that’s just me.
As the youngest child in my family I was never overly pressured to get good grades. One of my brothers was not naturally smart, but very hard working and got good grades. The other was naturally smart but excessively lazy and failed many exams until he decided to try a little bit in high school. So then the time comes for the youngest and only daughter, and my parents said, “Do your best” and that was that. With this background I may not have much of a place to take the side of the teachers and oppose this student entitlement, but I’m going to make my argument anyway.
When students complain they did not get the grade they expected, there should be nothing they can do about it- unless there’s a serious problem. The argument, “I worked harder than this grade shows” is a matter of opinion and obviously the teacher did not think so. It is not possible to judge or grade on the amount of work it took to do the assignment, all they can do is critique on certain points that they use as a standard. When the students fight for a higher grade then it takes the purpose away from the teacher. I would be truly offended if I were a teacher and was approached by students, after every assignment, asking for a grade change.
The students who tend to complain forget that school is for learning, so take it for what it is try to learn something. If they get a bad grade then they need to LEARN something from if for next time. That’s all. It’s not the end of the world. For students who need the good grades for further schooling or such have more reason for “complain”, but really all they need to do is talk to the professor to understand why, and if the professor sees this interest in learning and decides to change the grade, then so be it.
I remember when I first heard of this student entitlement becoming an issue in college, and I was immediately shocked and thinking that it was only in high schools or elementary kids’ overprotective parents. In college, it’s all up to you, and there’s no prior knowledge of the students with the professors, so it isn’t always a personal thing.
The point brought up in the attached article was really well put by Professor Brower: “read for knowledge and write with the goal of exploring ideas”. And also well put by Sam, that kids don’t hate learning- they hate school. I feel that exact same way, which is why students must have the mindset of learning what they can from this constricted environment- take what you can.
The article “So you think you deserve an “A,” do you?” was a very interesting one. I agree with Sam that students are not getting that much smarter. What is changing is the way schools and society view their students. The expectations are so much higher than they used to be, putting pressure on students to achieve A’s all the time. I will admit, when I do not get an A, I get pretty upset. I agree with the one student who was interviewed who said something along the lines of- why work your hardest for a C? I completely agree. I view C students as those who don’t work their harder… those who just meet the requirements but skate by. I do agree that students have this view of themselves that they are successful, intelligent, and great students, whether or not any or all of these things are true. We have all been raised to think that hard work equals success. Therefore, when we work hard on a 10-page paper and only receive a C, this goes against everything we have been taught. K-12 schools are definitely to blame here. It is true that they teach students the proper equation for doing well on tests. I know when I was in high school, I never got anything but an A on a test. Upon coming to college, I studied for a week straight before a test, and sometimes, that was still only good enough for a B. This is convincing me that hard work is not always enough, but natural ability can play a role in success. Although I am an education major, I think schools give kids the impression that simply meeting requirements is enough to earn A’s, or at least B’s. When students get to college, this is not the case, and they are shocked. I think this issue is not easily solved. It is not the fault of the teachers or professors or the fault of the students. If we give all students higher grades, this is not fair to those who do indeed work harder. If we put a quote on the number of A’s, this is not fair either. There could be a motivated group of students one year, 40% of whom would achieve A’s, but the quota could stop at 35% of the top students. I would be absolutely livid if this was me. I do not know how I feel about Penn State adopting this policy. I think if all schools adopted a quota of the number of A’s they can give, having an A would be a much higher sign of achievement. This could be great for hard working, intelligent students when they enter the job market. If employers know that an A is really an A, if you will, they will be very inclined to hire the students who earned these distinguished marks. Although the intentions are good around this issue, I think that grades are way overrated. As much as I find my grades important, I would learn more and stay focused on the important things if grades were not a factor. All they do is motivate students to get the grade and to do what they have to do to get by. This will not result in more learning. Whether you give out 100 A’s or 3 A’s, students will compete for them, which is ultimately the big problem here.
The blog, “So, you think you deserve and ‘A,’ do you?” focuses on the fact that many students feel that effort should be the deciding factor in grades, and that attending lectures, and completing requirements is standard and deserves a C. In the featured article, “Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes,” view points from students and professors on grade deflation are both offered. I completely agree with the subject of grade deflation. I’m not completely aware of this issue in the college and university setting, but as for high school, “honors” courses have become the norm. The over-achieving kids take AP and IB classes. At least this is how it was at my high school. However, there is some justice to this inflation, and that is the AP and IB national tests. Example: a class can be taught in any high school nationwide. However, how that specific teacher decides to teach the class is up to them. They can decided how hard they want to make the tests, how much extra credit is offered, how hard they grade the essays and how hard to make, and how often to assign homework assignments. This then results in the students grades. My high school AP Language and Composition class had probably a good 85% average. However, after taking the national AP exam, it was quite obvious that my entire class was not full of A/B students. This is a problem in the United States, and is largely why I believe colleges look more at SAT scores rather than GPA’s when considering admission of high school students. As for the fact that some students believe that there best effort deserves an ‘A’? That is just ridiculous. I think they are getting the wrong idea. If you read all the required readings, and study the hardest you are humanly capable, you may believe you are capable of getting an ‘A.’ However, if you do not get an ‘A’ the fact that you did all the required readings and studied the hardest you humanly possibly could, you are in no way shape or form entitled to that ‘A’ grade. Let’s put this into a different, perfectly comparable situation. In five years, you are out of school and you boss tells you to do a job. You get in your car, drive to the site, and do you very best, you try your very hardest to get that job done. But, you don’t seem to complete the job exactly as he wanted. When you return to your boss and give him the scoop, do you expect a raise? Hopefully not. You didn’t do your job. It’s the exact same situation and I think the students are being ridiculous. Sure, I get disappointed when I study really hard for an exam and don’t get the grade I am expecting, but I don’t believe I deserve the grade, just because I “worked really hard for it.”
I chose this article discussing school and grades as a change from blogging about racial issues. School is often a place where all races and religions can come together in one building. Of course there are private schools for specific religions and schools that segregate gender, but racial segregation in schools is a thing of the past.
Anyway this article about grades in Universities was very interesting. I guess I think it’s really great the grades have been improving at Penn State over the years. But I agree that means either there are some newer easier professors, but hopefully it means that students really are getting smarter. I say this because smarter students mean a smarter more capable generation of people to enhance the future and world we all live in. If grades across the nation were dropping, this would be a worrisome issue because our society thrives on new technology. In addition, with all of the problems in the world and limited natural resources we need people that will be intelligent enough to help with these issues.
The article discussing a few colleges made me happy I chose Penn State! At the University of Maryland there is the teacher who believes that if a student does all the work they will get a C. If I heard that on the first day of class I would be off to a computer to quickly get into another course before the drop-add period was over. I do not think it is fair for a student to use a lot of their time and to complete good quality work in order to only receive a C. There are many students on scholarship and financial aid and those students may need to meet a certain GPA requirement. It is not fair for those students to be penalized with a low grade because some obnoxious professor does not want to give a higher grade. I wonder what kind of grades the professor got in college? Maybe he’s taking out a past anger on his current students. I agree with other issues in the article, such as, some students think a lot of work will result in a good grade. This is not always true but it is a valid argument on the teacher’s behalf. If students work hard their work also has to be good. Hopefully when one works hard studying they receive a good grade, and if they don’t then obviously there is some other problem unless of course the material on the test was not what the teacher said it would be.
Overall I thought this was a really neat article to read because it gave me some awareness of happenings at other colleges in the country. I think the last part about how Princeton has a policy that limits the number of A’s across departments would be really annoying. There is enough pressure to try and get a good grade to begin with but when you’re also competing with everyone else to produce the best paper or project it would be very stressful.
My opinion of “so you think you deserve an A” is that of complete anger toward professor Grossman. I have had teachers in the past that just refuse to give a student an A. It is ridiculous and a completely backward way of thinking. Grossman argues that if a student does all of the work presented in class by the teacher the grade received should be a C. She also states that she feels that this is fair because the student is not going above and beyond that of what the basic expectations are of the class. I can agree with that idea to a certain extent but overall as a college student myself I feel completely against her ideas.
I do think that a student should work their hardest to receive and A. They should spend the time reading and studying and completely mastering the information taught to them in order to say that they learned the material. I feel that a good student will participate and listen to the instructor and even share their own ideas to add to the class discussion. If a student is doing all of this and still receiving less than they expected then the instructor has an obligation to listen to the students concerns and give those options or ideas on how to improve their grade.
Just because Princeton had started making receiving an A harder I feel that it doesn’t mean that the rest of the world agrees. I do what to get a job in the future and since most employers or graduate schools rely heavily on grade point averages I prefer to receive as many A’s as humanly possible. I could not understand a student how has read this article and decided that it sounds like a good idea. These thoughts on restricting grades just makes the life of the college student that much more stressful and time consuming.
Another complaint I have about this system or idea is that if it goes into effect at some schools and not others there will be a large difference in grade point averages and success between the colleges who enact this idea and those that do not. I feel that this worked at Princeton only because if a student is attending Princeton university he/ she already has the prestige and money to get a job or have a future doing whatever they want. When applying for a job or graduate school an employer will look more favorably upon a Princeton graduate over any other school even if the grade point averages of the Princeton student is lower.
Over all I feel that the people proposing these ideas are just looking for a way to make students work harder and value the grades they receive when they work hard. I feel it is comparable to an older person preaching on and on about the value of a dollar to an adolescent. The adolescent doesn’t care in the big picture about what they older person is saying they just want to make more money.
I honestly think it’s ridiculous to put a cap on the number of students that can get A’s in any given subject or department. The main reason being, as much as you are trying to put control into the hands of the teacher and stopping students from complaining about grades, you are also forcing those teachers to give out unfair grades. What if you have 60 students who did an absolutely outstanding job in a particular course but you can only give the credit to half of them. That is very unfair to the other half of the students whose work was just as good and are just as deserving of that grade. It is almost as though teachers do not realize the kind of power they have over their student’s futures. The grades you earn are what make your GPA, and that GPA is what lands you a good job or a place into a good professional school. Now to be denied a grade I truly earned, note I didn’t say deserved but EARNED, is an injustice. The thing is the universities have to have faith that their hired faculty is doing what is required of them and are awarding grades accordingly. I firmly believe it should be left to the teacher’s discretion as to who gets what grade. Having the university board put a cap on it when they know nothing of the proceedings of that particular course or department is unrealistic.
And I definitely think it is possible that people are getting smarter. I mean, look at the rate at which new technologies and sciences are being discovered today than they were back in the day. The human mind can only grow as generations pass on. And I have to say that in the comment Sam made about noticing that his students read a lot less or don’t put as much effort into classes to me screams change your syllabus or style of teaching every once in a while. And just because there is a trend in one class does not mean that it is true all across the board nor is it the fault of the students all the time. Teacher needs to reassess what they are doing because it could more likely be their fault. No professor can honestly say that out of their however many years of teaching here at Penn State or at any university, that all your 1000 students a year are the same and don’t do the required work. You can’t expect to do the same thing every year and get different results each time. People get comfortable with your style of teaching and thus do less work because they know the loop holes. Switch it up!
But I do agree that there are students who try to milk their teachers and don’t do any of the work but are quick to complain. But I would think that after having been a professor for many years (as most professors are) you can tell a good student from a bad one. And in most large classes all grades are based mostly on exams so how much effort the student puts into the course can be seen through their exam grades for the most part. So why put a cap on everything? I feel like that is actually stunting the academic growth of students and makes them feel as though they are not good enough in what they do when really the professor is just following University policies and not looking at each students work individually as it should be.
As a college student myself, I can see why these students at their respective universities are outraged. Much money is being spent for these students to go to a university, take classes, receive a high quality education, and graduate in the hopes of becoming successful in whatever field they chose to go in. Sure, Cs earn degrees, but will Cs get you a job/internship when your application is against someone who is an A- student. I highly doubt it in this day and age, but maybe. Most jobs want someone who is the best of the best in their field, and they want someone who can be an asset, not a burden. So, I feel that most college students feel the same way as those in the article did. We want that A or B. We want that “good grade” because we want that “good” future.
As a future educator myself, I find it actually really appalling that there are presidents, deans, and professors at colleges who legitimately don’t want to have a high number of “success” stories. Isn’t that what our job is as teachers? Aren’t we supposed to teach the students the material that we deem is important to know in life? Aren’t our students supposed to learn from and apply the information whether that be on an exam, paper, or project? I think the grades are reflective of the teacher or professor. Of course, you must throw in some obstacles and challenges. If there weren’t anything that could set apart one student from another, we would all have the same intelligence level. But to make it so challenging that only a certain amount of students actually get that “seal of approval” that they know and understand the concept totally defeating the purpose of an education?
I realize that some people find it harder to understand certain concepts than others. I also realize that some students don’t do what was asked of them or don’t study. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, but I personally feel that as a teacher, it is my job to make sure all of my students have the same and FAIR chance. If more than half of your class missed a certain question, don’t you think that maybe, just maybe you didn’t do your job as a teacher making sure they understood that concept?
We should always strive to teach our children to want more, to do more, and to do better. There is always room for improvement, and there is always room for more learning, but by putting a cap on how many As isn’t teaching growth and improvement during school. It’s basically saying, you might be make personal strides in your efforts, but they will still never be good enough to be rewarded or reinforced in this society. You may think you know the material, but you won’t get that A.
The whole grades thing reminds me a lot like King of the Mountain. Professors and deans of colleges are at the top of the mountain. They can control how many challenges and obstacles they put in place for their students. If they want less students to get to the top, which the universities in the article did, then they are going to put blocks in place. If they want their students to reach the top and share in that knowledge, then they will make the mountain a little more accessible.
To me, it all goes back on the teacher. Of course, why should they really care. They will get their paychecks at the end of the year. No biggie. But a good teacher, does care and should care what their students get. I want as many of my students to get the real grade they deserve, and I want them to feel that they earned it. If they are unhappy about their grade, then I want them to come see me and discuss it. If they didn’t do well on something, I as the teacher need to go back and reteach it until they do understand it.
Grades are important. It’s amazing what a letter in the alphabet can do, but they are important none the less. Maybe grades to one person are just graduating, and maybe grades to another is getting a job, but they are still important in some aspect. These universities should not be making a competition out of academics.
OOO grades! They are on the minds of every single college student, every single day, in every single class. What happens if I get a B in this class, a B+ in this class and an A- in this class? How will this class affect my GPA if I get this, or if I get that? I do agree with the article in that we as students have put more of an emphasis on the grade we get from a class rather than what we actually learn. However this is not without a reason. In today’s world, one word best describes the atmosphere…competitive. We as students are constantly competing with each other from the day we enter high school, almost until we retire 40 years or so down the line. We are competing to first get into a college, then to get into an honors program, then to get an internship, then to get into grad school, then to land a job, then to succeed in that job, then to become a higher-level employee and it goes on and on and on. We’ll probably be competing for the best burial plot when we die. This competition makes for better ideas, better business, and better employee attitudes I believe. It gives people a reason to work hard. However all this motivation comes back to those little letters you receive in your years at college. Why do we care so much? Your GPA is just a mere one line on your resume, however we have been taught just how much that line means. Companies have their GPA cutoffs of whom they will and won’t interview. A 3.0, a 3.3, a 3.5, a 3.7…there are constantly these levels we have to reach in order to just be considered for a job. With all the pressure put on us by parents, professors and the world in general, is it really that surprising how much we all care about that letter grade. I would love to not give a shit about my grade in classes, but I emotionally and mentally can’t. I wish the only thing I cared about in class was learning the material rather than what I can do to get an A. An extra credit thing here, showing some effort by going to office hours there, and BAM, an A-. However did I get what I needed out of the class? Sadly in most instances the answer is no. How can we change all of this? Until companies and universities start caring more about experience, and extra curricular activities that we find to be useful in helping us prepare for our future career, that one little line on our resume will be the see-all end-all of what we look to get out of a course.
I would like to say that grades do not matter and that we should all just try hard and our efforts will show through. But that’s crap. Everyone is concerned about grades they receive in school, I mean earn. But for someone like me, someone who tries really hard to do well but stumbles when it comes to test taking, this system just does not work well. I study a great amount and do all of the work that is expected of me. But I have the worst test anxiety, and thus, grades really do matter to me. I know I put forth a lot of effort, but my grades do not always show it. Over the past years, college was expected of many high school students. It is so very competitive now, and students try to get the A. But really, if a professor says he or she has certain expectations, than that should be an A if you meet fulfilled the rubric. One time I did everything that the teacher asked, and got a B or C. I was annoyed because I did everything he or she asked, but because I did not “exceed” the expectations, I did not earn an A. I thought that was bullshit. Pardon my language, but I was furious. One time in high school, my teacher gave me a 15% on a homework. I was extremely puzzled, because I thought I was doing well. We were already not getting along in the class. (No idea why, I was thinking it was because she did not like my sister-my sister dropped the class a couple years prior.) I talked to her after class about it and she went over the work with me. This is what she said,” Well, if I were to really examine your homework even closer, I would have to give you a negative 5%, but I will not.” Is that even possible to get a negative percentage? No it is not, because an assignment is a percentage. My overall reaction was, “ARE YOU F-ING SERIOUS?” (I did not say it out loud, but definitely thought it over and over again) She told me I was failing her class. So I went to the guidance counselor to see if I could drop the class. My counselor looked at my current grade. I had a B. And this is why grades are important to me. Because even with all off the effort you put into an assignment, teachers still have other expectations that are not clear. Nowadays, grad school is the new college. And this bugs me, because I do not want to go to grad school. Well, maybe in the future.
Although Penn State does not thoroughly enforce such a grading scheme, it is evident that some professors and departments are not hesitant to shy away from this. One example that I personally have with this kind of experience is what happened to me in physics 211 last year. The department made the first exam way to easy and therefore they had given out way to many A’s on this exam. This combined with the other course requirements which were very easy and were primarily seen as grade boosters such as the labs and worksheet recitation. I was thinking “Oh man this class is way easier than I expected it to be after I had received my grade for the second exam”. This was all fine until the next exam came around. I studied for about the same amount as the first exam as this seemed to be a good gauge. Unfortunately, I arrived at the exam and overheard some other students talking about the exam. I started talking to them and to my dismay I found out that since the first exam was unusually easy, this exam was meant to be a grade crusher. The department did not want all of these people to get A’s so they made the next exam extra hard which was intended to curve students grades to the lower end of the scale. In fact, I heard that the average was meant to be around, if not below a sixty percent. Needless to say, the average was not much higher than this. This obviously made students get much more competitive in the class since now people clearly knew that they had to compete for the grade. This is because the department that handled this class decided they only wanted to have a certain percentage have A’s in the class. Now, this is not to say that they had a set percentage that they wanted to reach, but it is evident that they did have a general goal that they wanted to meet. Even with this ‘competitive’ atmosphere for grades, I did not really notice a change in students demeanor. In both the labs and the recitations people were just as equally helpful both before and after the second exam had occurred. In fact it seemed like people wanted to help each other out in order to keep their grades up and it was much easier to work in a group than to do it yourself. However, Penn State is also not the same as an ivy league school. Princeton is a much more prestigious school and it seems like many more people would be very much more concerned with grades on average than there would be at Penn State.
Unfortunatly I think you are correct when you say that you are reasonably certain that students have not gotten THAT much smarter, although I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong. Even though it would be very nice if we were, I do not think we have evolved that much mentally in the past few decades. Hearing the professor say that if the class does what they are supposed to do and meet the standard requirements they will earn a C because that is the default grade made me cringe really bad. I am glad we do not have that exact policy at Penn State, even though a few professors do that. I agree that most students see the default grade as an A, I see it kind of like that as well. But I do agree that C is average and you need to think out of the box to get an A. I went to many different schools between my family moving and other reasons, and have experienced first hand many different themes of grading. It is a very interesting thing to compare grades from one school to another especially at a college level when they matter. If no one grades the same, an C in one class that you did just your best, would be equal to a A in another where you did everything the prof. asked. Of the examples for why there has been an increase in A’s amongst students recently, I have felt parental pressure to be the most effective. All of my friends who have smart parents tend to be smart because the parents have felt the benefits of it, and want their children to do the same. My friends who have more of the average intelligent parents do not receive the motivation from their family. My father is an engineer. He is a very intelligent man and has pushed me from day one of schooling. He expects me to do very well and because of this, I am doing a lot better than I would have if he did not pressure me.
The point that if a student was trying hard, that should be taken into account in their grade, is bull shit. The first thought that comes to my mind after reading that is the lady who sued McDonalds because her coffee was too hot she got burnt. People are becoming lazy and trying to get everything they can out of the situation. Just by putting in a lot of effort does not mean that you deserve anything more than the next person who put less effort but knew what they were talking about. Some people need to put in a lot more effort than others to receive the same grade. My high school buddy did not turn in one homework assignment but when test time came, he got all 100’s on it. He passed high school with a low grade but put in no effort at all to do it. I did every homework, studied hard, and had nothing to show for it because we got the same grades. I never complained that I worked harder than someone, I just understood that I was not as intelligent as he was.
Throughout high school I was an A-student then I came to college and I became a B-student. The classes that I was taking in high school were college bound classes and my teachers would tell me that these courses were preparing me for college classes, which I believed at first. When I got to college that was not the case by far. I knew some of the stuff that was taught in college classes but not a lot. I don’t think that grades should be the way someone knows if you’re smart or you’re putting your all into a project or paper. Some people are good test takers, whereas others are not. Grades will not help us in the future; it will just lower our confidence. When trying to get into college as an undergraduate or a graduate student, you have to have the best grades in order to even get your application looked at or to get accepted. School only accepts the best grades, which to me is not even fair because they will not know what area someone is good at. A lot of people focus on grades rather than learning anything, which is sad because that is what we come to school for, to learn. People cry when they receive a B in a course whereas some people are really excited if they receive at least a C. This is crazy. Is anyone learning while they are in school? Grade deflation is a major problem in the United states but I guess the schools have to give out more A’s because parents are complaining when their kids come home with B’s or C’s and they know their child is smarter than the grade they received. Is it because parents pay so much for school that they expect to get at least an A for sending their child there? Kids that are going to go to school is not going to put their all into because they know that an A will be giving to them. I do feel like sometimes I did an A work but I receive a B and I do get mad and curse out the teachers. Then I read the person paper next to me and see he/she received an A when he/she deserved a B or C. It is not a good thing that people automatically assume they should receive an A. I was always told that I had to work harder than the person next to me because I have a setback because I am Black and people won’t think that I am smart enough. So I always knew I had to work hard. But I don’t feel as though grades should be the way we distinguish who is smart or who belong or who don’t because everyone is different and some classes are harder than the next.
I encounter the issue with grades every single day in college. I also dealt with it in high school and probably middle school and elementary school as well. I have always been a self-motivated person who enjoys to learn, but I think I feel that I get more out of my education when I walk away with good grades, preferably A’s. It just feels really nice to know that you got the best grade that you possibly could, and sometimes you do not really deserve it.
In high school, I wanted to get good grades to please myself and my teachers also, which I found out is weird according to my 12th grade psychology teacher. My parents never put pressure on me regarding my grades because I always put way too much pressure on myself, and they also did not feel the need because they were happy with whatever kind of grades I got; they knew I always did my best. Another reason I wanted the best grades in high school was to get into the college of my choice, which ended up being Penn State University. Now that I am at my dream college, I am stressing over my grades because it is only getting more and more difficult to get into graduate programs. Also, in order for me to get a good job in speech pathology, I would need to go to an accredited and well-known speech pathology graduate school.
I do not get upset when I get a less than perfect grade in a class that I genuinely tried hard in, and also if it is a class that may be harder for a lot of people to do well in. For instance, I knew last spring that I would not do very well in my math class, so I really did not mind if I got a lower score. But when I get a lower score in a class that I truly believe I could have gotten an A in, I get really, really pissed. Sometimes I guess I do feel entitled to A’s, especially in the easier classes for my major.
I cannot decide if I am surprised or not that the percentage of A grades given to students has increased since 1990. I really do not think students are getting smarter. I think it may be easier for people to use more sources of help now if they need to. What I do not understand is how grades have increased if people are reading less and less nowadays. That doesn’t make any sense. My own personal theory is that teachers (K through 12, and college professors) realize that there is a lot more pressure on students now and maybe they are softening their grading policies to “cut us some slack.”
Any serious student wishes that grades could be ignored in lieu of simply expanding one’s mind and getting the full experience and education in the field that they desire. This, however, is not realistic. Grades decide far too much in the education realm, and can change the possibilities of career. Even the opportunity to go to a university is dependent on a student’s grades; in other words, the very action of earning grades is dependent on the grades you have already earned. To imagine that students will suddenly stop worrying about this is very idealistic and out of touch.
A simple example of a student having to focus on concerns outside of study for their major is that schools require study outside of the major. English majors are required to take science classes, and their grades in those classes determine whether or not they can enter their respective major. While this does make for a more rounded education, it also means that students are forced to take and pass classes that they conceivably could know nothing about; in fact, some of these classes are taken just to get them out of the way, where nothing other than a good grade matters.
It is, however, ridiculous to assume that going to class and doing readings is enough to earn a B in a class. With a C representing the average amount of effort put into a class, a doing the minimum would deserve closer to a D. Trying harder but not fully committing deserves a B, and work that shows an in-depth level of effort and focus deserves an A. Teachers should certainly take this into account, too; if a student professes many times that they are putting all of their effort into work, but it is simply not reaching the levels of the other students, they should not be penalized. Classes should not be a competition, but rather an individual assessment of work and improvement.
Soc 119 represents a class where individual effort is not honored. Realistically, a student could show up to every class and do the readings and earn an A. The journal entries we are required to do could be done in thirty minutes or three minutes and receive the same grade. Quantity is exemplified over quantity and students being to adopt or further solidify their ideas that a minimum effort, or an attitude of “just getting the work done,” earns grades that will bring them a stress-free life. For myself in particular, I do not find the lectures in Soc 119 appealing, and I have learned far more in my Ethnic and Racial Politics class. However, its an easy A worth 4 credits, which is the exact academic habits I should avoid in order to get the best result from my education, that being an actual education.
I actually really enjoyed the blog “So you think you deserve an A, Do you?” because it dealt with another issue besides race or ethnicity, but I still believe that it is a topic worth discussing. Grades basically control the existence of most college students, at least for me anyway. I am one of those people who believe that if I work hard enough I will get an A or A- in any class. For the most part that is true. However, the article makes me think about whether those A’s that I received were actually deserved or did it have to do with those extra credit opportunities that my professors provided.
Professor Brower said in the article, “I think that it stems from their K-12 experiences. They have become ultra-efficient in test preparation. And this hyper-efficiency has led them to look for a magic formula to get high scores.” This really made me think about when I was in 4th grade and I received a low 80 on the project and many other people in my class did a lot better. I think that was the first time that I realized that grades meant something. Then when students were put into higher Math and English levels, I became somewhat obsessed with doing better than my peers. I have been on Deans List since high school, and I could not imagine not being on that. My sister graduated 2nd in her high school class, while I graduates 12th. The reason that I am reminiscing is because I really cannot remember a time where I did not get an A in a class.
In all honesty, students are fed by the media that they have to be the smartest in order to succeed in this world, and actually give something back the country. C is only average and is not acceptable. However, when giving out A’s as teachers are we guilty of grade inflation? Do we give A’s simply to increase the students’ sense of self-worth? I also agree with the students in the article when they discussed the importance of trying hard in order to get a C. There are instances where students put in the work and effort and do get a C, but because of society that C is seen as a failure. I do not think that everyone deserves an A, but grades are still going to be a driving force in this society until getting into a prestigious college or good job does not depend on how we did in school.
I definitely think that people are used to getting A’s in all of their classes, and they do develop some sense of entitlement over time that they should always get A’s. However, the students have come to expect this because many teachers inflate their grades to make themselves look better. So when a student does not get an A they cannot comprehend why. I will always be upset if I do poorly on a test because I have certain standards that I have set for myself and it is just how my personality is. I understand that I will not always get an A, but I will never be happy with a C. I do not think that that will ever change.
I was the student that “seemed” to get through high school pretty easy. Which for most subjects I did get an A pretty easily, but I was also the student that had to study for those A’s. I couldn’t just read over something once to remember it I really had to work for those A’s. Throughout high school I was known as the athletic, smart, popular girl. With those good grades came my group of friends and how people look or judged me. So when I came to Penn State I felt that yes it was college and was going to be harder but I still had to get those A’s to “fit in” essentially. I’ll still pretty much to anything to get those A’s and yes I have taken a class because I’ve heard that it would get me an easy A. Though I’m not one of those students who will cry over a bad grade I know it’s college and I have to work harder for good grades, but I also feel the pressure of getting that grade. Pressure from friends and pressure from even my major because most majors require that you get a certain GPA or higher to be able to get in. So students will do what they need to, to make sure that they get into their major even if that means taking that “easy A” class to bring up your GPA. Though I am a student who wants those A’s I wish that students today weren’t so concerned with grades. I do wish that grades would take a back seat so that I could just enjoy my classes. This doesn’t mean I think that students deserve a good grade without doing the effort. Everyone knows that you have to put effort into everything to get the outcome you want. Sometimes though when you are required to take a class for your major but you’re just not that great at the subject yet you’re great at your major as a whole a professor should take this into account. I don’t think it’s fair if the student just gets the good grade for doing all the reading or what not, but maybe if the teacher gave the student additional work or another type of assignment. So that student is still working for the grade, but just in a different way. Though I don’t believe I should get a better grade if I do horrible on a test, but knew the material I will go to my professor if I know that, that test will “make or break” my overall class grade especially if I need that class to achieve my major goal. Limiting A’s to students seems a little ridiculous to me, giving away A’s should not be allowed, but if students are smart ace all their tests and do all the work then they should be given an A; they deserve it.
One thing I have always been bothered by was the “A+ Freak” in my classes, starting with elementary school up until now, in college. There’s always one. Usually a girl, over-achiever, perfectionist, the stereotype we all know. I suppose I’ve never been obsessed with getting A’s. While they came easy to me in most subjects during High School, the occasional B would not send my life into a downward spiral of self-loathing or begging for a higher grade. I just found it, off putting, really. Entitled—that’s exactly how I’d describe it, as the article does. I guess I just accept what I receive; knowing deep down that I deserved what I got, even if it was lower than my expectations. Personally, I think my professors would have a better gauge on my work than I do, since, well, they are professors, and I am simply a college student. I find it highly offensive—usually the student who argues for a higher grade has some sense of privilege to an A, whether that sense comes from their own drive, their history, their plans for the future, or the parental pressure placed on them. Regardless, I think these kinds of students probably torture themselves with pressure, stress, and anxiety. I can’t imagine being so strict with myself, but maybe I’m just sounding like a slacker—not sure. I appreciate hard working students, of course, and I am sure they will go very far. But I feel as if arguing about one letter grade is almost offending to the professor’s intelligence of knowledge, or authority even. As if the professor doesn’t know how to GRADE his own ASSIGNMENTS, right? Because some student thinks they “deserve” a better/higher grade. I just think its ridiculous and I always have. Once again, maybe it’s just me sounding like an underachiever. What can I do, I suppose. In the “real world”, if your Boss tells you that you did poorly on a recent assignment, are you going to argue with him and explain that you “tried really hard” ? I suppose other’s work is subjective to opinions of those judging it. I just feel like the “A” culture, that begins in 5th grade, is so over stressed and negates the whole process of education---to learn, to thrive mentally, to discover, to realize. I may not get “perfect grades”, like I did back in high school, but I LISTEN to my professors message, their moral, and I feel as if that is the most important thing.
I think it’s quite interesting to see the statistics about grade inflation and deflation---personally, quite surprising that the A average has jumped at Penn State. I was unaware of how many people were receiving such grades. At Princeton, I cannot even imagine the competitiveness, pre grade-deflation policy.
Grades have been getting inflated, but that’s not a bad thing. What is bad is when 47% of a class gets an A. I do not think that is right. I feel that if a class has a 75% average, then that’s fine. It may mean that everyone either has an A or is failing, but generally the grades will be spread out evenly throughout the distribution. Penn State does grade deflation, and I know of some teachers that were banned from teaching specific classes because they gave out to many A’s. This is not a bad thing though. My teacher that got banned gave us throughout the year 2 midterms, 10 essays, a final project and a final exam. I got a 95% in the class, just because I did well on the essays and final project and exam (my midterms were both mid B’s). What I am saying is that I earned that 95% by all of the work that I put into the class. The other teachers just gave 2 midterms and a final, and had an average of 75%. So which is fair? I put in more work, and probably learned more, but the teacher was fired from that class because the grades were to high. They were to high because if you failed a midterm then your grade wouldn’t suffer as much. The other teachers always needed to curve their tests because kids failed. My teacher never curved one of our tests. Another one of my friends who graduated got a 30% on his econ final one year. The class average was 17% or something; his 30% was curved to 85% or something like that. I would be more worried as an administrator if a teacher is giving tests that are obviously to hard or not on the subject matter then a teacher who gives so much work that one bad grade does not effect the whole semester. As for grades going up in your class, I can’t explain that unless you changed the format of the class. I got a 89% on your midterm, and I hope to get the same on the final. I will get an A in your class, but I put in so much work. If kids are getting A’s but they deserve it, then give them A’s. If they are getting A’s for another reason then yes something needs to be changed. One of the problems with grades are that GPA matters more and more in this world. My Dad works for Penn State and he gets to hire people. He does not hire anyone under a certain GPA number (he won’t tell me what it is). So I asked him if he would hire himself out of college, and he said no. So my Dad is not even looking at people to hire that had a higher GPA then he did in college. This is why teachers and students feel the need to inflate grades, because they really do matter in some jobs in the real world, but not all of them. Just a college degree from a good university can overcome any GPA that you have for 90% of the companies in the world. Its those last 10% that everyone is fighting for.
Limiting the amount of A’s is just stupid. I am not afraid to use that word because it is actually ridiculous how serious the A has become. It is so bad that people will do anything to get that A. Even if it takes a 20 hours of studying for a test. Why? Will you not get a job if you don’t get straight A’s. But besides how badly students want that A, the A’s should not be limited. Imagine a situation of 100 students at a school. Only 35% are allowed A’s. So now a student who earns an A can be denied his effort because of a new rule similar to Affirmative Action. He is not receiving what he deserves because a percentage of people have already received the A. Say 40 students, out of the 100 students at the specific school receive 90 – 100 percent on their final grade. Only 35 get the A. Why is everything becoming so competitive? Who cares? Seriously, if students receive the A through any developed curriculum, give them what they worked for. Personally, I believe you will be able to be successful no matter what. But since parents place so much pressure on children in relation to the way they were brought up, these students really are working for that A because of parents. And pretty much, these students have been brainwashed completely to work for that A and nothing else is acceptable.
Similar to Affirmative Action, we can see people being denied of something that they deserve. Think about all of the people who have been turned down because of a certain percentage needed and already obtained through Affirmative Action. These laws and rules or guidelines are absurd. Come on. Affirmative Action is more complex of a topic but I truly believe it is ridiculous. Ignore the color of someones skin. If you are working at a company, and two men equally capable of a position, how can race plan an effect if they are equally capable? It can’t. And when accepting kids into school that are not equally intelligent, but you need to reach a standard to please the public. I find that stupid. People need to be exposed. I feel bad for the people who live in close knit communities that experience no racial differences. I hear way to much at PSU from people of white communities that they learned so much after interacting with other races. Students just believe what they hear. It sucks. I really do not think anything will get done.
And to end about the grades, again give people what they deserve. Whether it is a grade or a job or denying a job.
I found the article and the blog about a college student’s sense of entitlement and grades interesting. I haven’t really thought about it that much, but now that I do, it is certainly a tricky subject. There have certainly been classes where I thought I deserved a better grade considering the effort I put into it when I received a lesser grade. There have also been times where I have received a higher grade that I was not expecting. Depending on the subject or class, grades can sometimes be very straightforward and tricky at other times. I personally always found grades on my English papers to be highly subjective. Yet I can understand how some students may have a higher sense of entitlement than in the past. Most college students nowadays are kids of the later 1980’s or early 1990’s. If you were raised in a middle-class family (I understand that term leaves a huge gap in income, lifestyle, etc.) then most likely you grew up in a higher quality of life than your parents. (Again, this does not apply to all college students, but I’m going to go on a limb and say probably the majority.) This higher quality of life mixed with the American dream has parents drilling into their children’s head the notion of doing better and rising above and all that. Yet at the same time college admissions is getting stricter and stricter, the price of college is rising and rising, and meeting the demands of parents, teachers, peers, future employers, admissions, and society is getting harder and harder. So perhaps my generation has to work harder to maintain that higher quality of life. Yet at the same time, maybe not. My generation is often criticized as spoiled and lazy and having everything handed to us on a silver platter. So since we were raised with this higher quality of life we believe we are entitled to keep it that way. The line of earning and entitlement becomes blurred. So which is it? Is life harder or easier for my generation? I don’t have the answer. And I can understand the points of both sides. But no matter what there are always going to be students who argue with a teacher over the grade on a test or an essay. And how can we know what is means that more students are getting A’s now that before? Maybe students are working harder. Maybe the teachers are grading more easily. Maybe the material has been dumb-downed for students so they can earn a better grade more easily. I think there are too many factors to know the real answer. I don’t think caps on higher grades is the answer. You can’t put a limit on success. It would be unfair to only allow 10 students to get an A in the class and give the 5 just as hardworking B+ students a lesser grade just because there is a mandated limit on grades. I think previous and future generations have and will face criticism about grades and a sense of entitlement. I’d like to still believe that if we do our best, we get what we deserve.
Soc 119 sure broadens my horizons. I do not quite understand why the issue of getting a deserved “A” is on the Race Relations blog, but it is an interesting topic nonetheless. Being a hard worker myself, I do not believe grade inflation is a real problem. Ok, more people are getting A’s today than they were in the past, but there are definitely more people in college now than ever before. I was a good student in a very strict and challenging Catholic High School and got mostly A’s and B’s. Once I got to Penn State though, it almost seemed impossible for me to get my desired grades and not because I like to party or anything like that. I was used to hours and hours of homework. I actually feel like I have less work in college than I did in high school. Beginning college, I passed up on doing things with my friends many a time, and still seemed to get straight B’s my freshman year. I would study for days and always complete my work. Even if I thought the class was easy, it was still extremely difficult for me to get my desired grades. Do not get me wrong, an 85 is not a bad grade, but I was striving for 95s and could not get them no matter what I tried. To me, it is more that college is at a high level and I have an average level of knowledge. Given, I do not cheat, which could be a major factor in why certain people get higher grades than I do. That makes me angry. I work hard for the grades I receive and would never cheat. I just feel that with the amount of work I do, I should be receiving higher grades.
I feel Princeton’s grade deflation policy is unfair. Limiting A’s may affect students who deserve those grades. I do understand it makes education more competitive, which is a big deal at an Ivy League school, but it would completely intimidate me. It might even make me not try as hard in certain classes that I did not think an “A” was attainable in. Teachers and universities should not limit a specific grade. If a student works hard enough, they deserve the grade they “earn”. Penn State is a large school and many classes contain more than 100 students making it difficult to regulate or make grade-earning as fair as possible because teachers can not personally see a students effort, but for smaller schools it is much easier for teachers to know students by name and see how they really are… an achiever or a slacker. School is more about learning than grades. Some people crumble under pressure, but ask them about a topic and they can go on for hours.
I haven’t looked at any data what so ever pertaining to how students’ grades have increased over the years, so I will have to go with Sam’s statistic. It doesn’t surprise me, nor am I disputing the fact that students’ grades have gone up over the last decade, I just feel that I would be able to better answer this Blog with some hard facts. But, it’s late and I’m lazy. Going with what I got, I think there are a few contributing factors concerning the increase in students’ grades and this so-called “self-entitlement”. First of all, I think that there is an overall stronger emphasis put on school and good grades that is generated and reinforced in more ways in our culture today. So grades undoubtedly should have gone up over time, but I wouldn’t say as much as 13% over the span of lets say fifteen years. So there is definitely something going on here, and it appears that the adults, teachers specifically are putting the blame on the kids. The “self-entitlement” of the youth is causing teachers to give out A’s like crazy! There is only one person that is in charge of distributing grades and that is the teacher. When a student comes in and complains about his or her grade, it shows dedication and commitment to their work and grades. Teachers should look at these complaints as opportunities to tell students what they can and need to do to receive a higher mark, and if a teacher is receiving many complaints than maybe he or she should think about restructuring their grading policy.
Although this last comment borderline contradicts my next point, I will leave it because I feel that if a large number of students are unhappy, than the teacher is doing something wrong. My next point is that I think it is ridicules for school district’s and colleges to limit the amount of A’s given out. Teachers are given full control over their classes, tests, and assignments, and it would be erroneous for them to be denied control over their grade book.
When listing the statistic on how the number of A’s have increased since the 1990’s, Sam says that “I'm reasonably certain that students have not gotten THAT much smarter”, but when reading the article from the New York Times and hearing Aaron M. Brower say that “They [children] have become ultra-efficient in test preparation. And this hyper-efficiency has led them to look for a magic formula to get high scores.” it makes me wonder. If this is the reason for the self-entitlement that so many feel is plaguing our nation’s schools, than why wasn’t it around fifteen years ago. There is only one explanation that I can think of, kids must of gotten THAT much smarter. A good number of the people interviewed in the New York Times article are college professors, and one said “Some [students] assert that they have never gotten a grade as low as this before.” as if that is a ridicules claim to make. What is ridiculous is for college professors to give out grades that students have never received before in their life, and not expect confusion and dissatisfaction. And these liberal and brilliant professors’ rebuttal is that school isn’t all about getting the grade, which I totally agree with. But when you raise a generation to believe that the most important thing in their life is getting good grades, and then all of a sudden tell them there is more to life, and even get annoyed that they are concerned and frustrated about their grades is madness.
All in all, if there is someone to blame for these inconveniences teachers are experiencing, it is the educators and the parents, basically adults in general, and in no way shape or form with the kids.
Picture being born and raised an over-achiever. Imagine having a designated place on the honor roll and, most importantly, create this whimsical dream-turned-reality of saying your valedictorian speech in front of hundreds of people. Now, erase all of those sweet memories and wake up to failing just about everything you get your loser hands on. I can literally say that since I came to college my grades have traveled down an icy never-ending slope. You see, I’m a freshman and I thought that I could carry my old and used bag of tricks to college with me but, my “D” average begs to differ. In high school, my effort wasn’t worth anything but a penny and lent. I procrastinated on everything and made sure that every assignment was done the night before the deadline. High school was cake and I guess thinking that college would be just as breezy was my remedy for indifference. Nowadays, I look at my 65s and wonder why I got this horrible grade that doesn’t match up with my hours of studying the nights before; truth dawns on me and the realization that I’m learning to master test instead of topics becomes frightening. It didn’t make sense to me why I would get bent out of shape for a C+ on my English papers but it is evident to assume that college students and youth in general contradict what grades they get because of fear of not being sufficient enough to meet the requirements of what is expected prosperity. I and other students think that if we spend x-amount of time on study guides and come prepared to write like maniacs during exam reviews to get that golden “A” then our work will pay off and we will know the subject of matter like the back of our hands. Honestly, we don’t know anything if we’re only depending upon 50 questions to teach us every aspect of something like Chemistry. In fact, I’m a prime example of how much the “A” Phase has been embedded inside the average student’s head. On Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evenings I complete my math homework online. I do exactly like I just said; “complete” my homework. The questions are multiple-choice and quite frequently I find myself playing guessing games like whether to pick a, b, c, or d. I’m really lost when it comes to class work because the “study time” that I am using is to merely get a 100% on my homework grade. This is utterly sad but my anecdote probably can be repeated by at least a thousand other undergrads at Penn State. We as students won’t even come to terms with the harm that we’re placing on our education by refusing to learn and actually read. It’s boiled down to a point in which we’ve reached a critical level and if somebody doesn’t take charge then a nationwide epidemic will falter the youth of this generation’s intellectual level. On a happier note, Princeton, of all universities, has done a courageous deed in limiting the number of perfect scores they allocate…what will it take for other universities to begin caring just as much about the people who they take trillions of dollars from each year?
I would consider myself your average student speaking in terms of grades. I was always raised to try my best and if my best was a C then that was good. I only got a few C’s in my high school and college career but knowing this probably made the strive for “overachieving” a little less of a goal for myself. For example, some of my friends will be very upset if they get a B in the class and this possibly stems from their parents being so concerned with their grades. I’m not saying either way is better than the other, I am just indicating that I think a lot of it has to do with our upbringing.
Personally, I take complete responsibly for work I do not do. I think students deserve the grades that they earn and it is as simple as that. However, speaking as a future elementary education teacher, I think the teachers also need to be able to compromise. Extra credit can be offered and other alternative options are always appreciated. For example, like Sam was talking about in class, some people are just not as talented in some areas as in other areas of education. Personally, I struggle with math and always have. I also will study for a test two weeks in advance and receive only a slightly higher grade than if I was to not study at all. I am not a test taker by any means. I feel classes that base their grades off of three tests and a final is completely bogus. What about those students that have test anxiety. I guess all I’m trying to say is I think the teachers and students both need to be cooperative. It is a give and take situation. I think that the teachers provide opportunities for points in various ways and the students have the choice to do the work. That’s the thing about education though, teachers have a lot of freedom to conduct a point system and be as adaptable as they want.
I do not think any student should just be able to go into the office of a professor and automatically get a good grade. On the other hand I do feel that if the student is coming to the professor indicating that they have concerns and are doing adequate work then that should be taken into consideration. The student obviously cares enough to come in and find out what the hell is going on, so I think this is all on a personal basis depending on the situation what the result is.
I also want to say that the whole Princeton thing is absurd. I mean it is PRINCETON. That is why they have a 35% average A. Princeton continues to keep its status for a reason and although it is a bit outlandish, I feel it is not surprising.
On a side note, I was reading some of the other posts and I found it amusing that one could tell whom the overachievers are and whom the underachievers are. The thing is there is a middle ground. What about those that have difficulty in certain areas no matter how hard they study? This is where I think it becomes imbalanced in the education system.
It is extremely hard for students who come out of 13 years of training, also known as k-12, to simply disengage the concept of the almighty “A.” Many of us have spent our entire lives believing that if we memorize the information given to us by teachers and give it back to them exactly as it was given to us and receive an A on a paper or an exam that we are intelligent. Then we come to a University like Penn State and take a class such as soc 119 or Bi Sci 3, and we begin to reconsider what we have always known. I especially began to wonder if there were any flaws in the material I simply absorbed, without question. We begin to question the policies and institutions that we have always held to be perfect in every way. For many of us this is one of the ways we begin to wake up. We begin to listen more closely and read things a second or a third time, we also begin to ask questions; a lot of questions. This is where I feel a conflict begins.
Say you are taking international relations with Dr. Henderson and you read one of the books for class, Good Muslim, Bad Muslim, which discusses the United States embrace of terrorism in Africa and the Middle East. What? No, we are the good one. Right? You begin to look at other books and research on U.S. foreign policy, but you have a project due and an exam and that interview for an internship. Because for your entire life you have been taught that money and success are good and these things come from the almighty A, you ignore what you want to learn about and go with what will get you an A and eventually the fortune 500 job.
For those of us who have begun to question why it is people say that exams measure intelligence, when all they really measure is one’s ability to spend time memorizing information. We have begun to change paths to really understanding and thinking about what we are told as opposed to what we have done since the age of five.
With more emphasis on the large percentage of A’s given out at universities I believe it is from a number of factors including professors becoming annoyed and exhausted by the numerous office visits stemming form I couldn’t have gotten a B to pressure from the schools themselves to keep students happily enrolled so the tuition can continue being paid and to ensure that you will have successful alumni contributing to their school. This isn’t to say that there are not intelligent individuals with excellent critical thinking skills in our university systems, it is to question why A’s are considered the almighty when people don’t remember anything about a class they took a year ago, in which they received an A. I think it is time to question why A’s are considered amazing when we graduate and don’t remember anything we have learned; it is time to focus on what we care about and to study that as well as to question it.
At Penn State, every instructor gives a syllabus, which outlines the quizzes, projects, and exams that will factor into a student’s overall grade at the end of the semester. I think it is very true that many students have become “ultra-efficient in test preparation.” When such contributing factors are present such as Nittany Notes and tutors, it is not difficult to get an A in many general education courses. So students have an outline of exactly what’s going to happen throughout the semester, some classes even put the semester calendar on the Angel site. If they miss class an attendance point may be deducted but they can always go to Nittany Notes and buy what they’ve missed. In addition, ANGEL gives each student the class roster to any class, and the tool to email everyone in a whole. Therefore, if you don’t feel like buying notes for the class you’ve missed, send an email to the whole class and perhaps one kind sole out of a hundred will email you the notes in hopes you would return the favor one day.
In contrast with general education courses where grades are based on attendance, quizzes and exams, I think core classes relating to one’s major are definitely geared differently. This is when students become much more interested in learning and students learn because they want to. My core education classes are far more hands-on and personal than any general class at Penn State. We are required to form groups and work closely with them for an entire semester. We have multiple hands-on projects requiring to do work outside of the classroom. I think these types of classes that require group meetings to complete projects require a lot more effort then the average course. Therefore, it is more difficult to achieve a higher grade unless students are intrinsically motivated to learn and achieve those grades.
I agree with a combination of views from the article in The New York Times. For starters, I think it is very true that many students feel just showing up deserves an average grade. I find it interesting that students feel an A is the default grade but in reality, a C is average. If assessments were more formative in the way of observing student participation and interest in subject matter, students would become more enthusiastic during classes rather then just signing attendance sheets for the grade. I also agree with Professor Greenberger from the University of California. Students feel a greater sense of deserving a better grade these days. I think many pressures contribute to this sense of entitlement. Every college student wants to succeed after graduation, and potentially meet out colleagues for a specific job. In our generation, many of our parents are college graduates, therefore students today feel they must live up to parent expectations and become as successful as their parents.
After I begin teaching, I imagine that students who go above and beyond simply completing their work will deserve an A. Those who do the average amount and show up to class without contributing will deserve the average of a C or a B.
In high school I was the overachiever. I would do an entire project the day I got it assigned to me, I always wrote my papers weeks in advance and I put a lot of time into studying. I also lettered in soccer since my freshman year and played on a club traveling team all four years that went to places like Canada, Florida, and California. Despite all of this I still earned a 3.6 grade point average throughout my high school years. I can remember when the teachers would “warn” us in the beginning of the year that this class was not going to be easy; that it would be taught like a college course. Even those classes I would work hard enough to receive at least a B+/A-.
What I haven’t told you yet is that I am a very visual learner. Doing my projects, papers, and homework assignments was always easy for me. What I struggled with was the tests. Memorization isn’t a strong point in my academic life, but I always gave it those extra few hours to get the grade I really wanted. I have always thought I had an unfair advantage, but at this point I have realized that all students have their weaknesses. It comes down to whether or not you have the work ethic to get what you want. While I struggled to get a B on a test I would easily get an A on all of my papers and homework. The person sitting next to me could ace a test but get only a C on a paper. In high school I could get away with only being good at non-test assignments.
College is different though. Some of my classes don’t even have papers, all they have is 3 test that you have to do well on, and maybe five homework assignments. My first semester of college left me feeling slapped in the face. I was an A student in high school and working my hardest I was only getting a B. Now I don’t think any student deserves to just talk there way out of a grade, but I do think teachers should take thing into account. If I have a grade don’t like, I will go to the teacher to explain why I got this and I will do my explanation for why I deserve some extra points. When a student shows that they really care by doing all of their work on time, doing all the provided extra credit, and going in for extra help I don’t think they deserve a low grade by any means. I truly believe this type of student should have some effect on their grade.
I looked forward to college to find out what I really wanted to do in my life. But because of the huge emphasis on only a few tests the carefree and interested school life has shifted to nights of hanging over books and days of being locked up in the library and avoiding all people for days just studying for a single test.
I agree with Ellen Greenberger in that students are wrong in thinking that just because they work hard, they deserve a high grade in a class. If this were true, then students who only have to study two hours for an exam instead of six, like some of their classmates, should automatically deserve a D regardless of performance. Personally, I am one of those students who doesn’t do a whole lot of work up until a week before the test, and my grades are pretty decent. Should I deserve a C when my grades actually calculate out to an A? Do these self-entitled students think that would be a more fair grading system? Probably not. When looking at this issue you must also remember the entire purpose of college. It’s to find out who can process and learn new information on their own or with minimal one on one help. You go to college to earn a degree, and largely, these degrees don’t mean you an expert in whatever field it says on that piece of paper. It just means you’re able to learn and understand information in that field. Grades EARNED on papers and exams are a good reflection of your ability to complete assignments you are given. That’s what employers care about. A company doesn’t want to hire someone who will work eight hours on a task, when they can hire someone who only needs three hours to do a better job. This is a sad reality for people who can’t keep up with the expectations of professors and the “real” working world. They go through junior high and high school getting a lot more one on one attention from teachers, which is why they get used to getting these high grades. Then, once college begins, there is no one there to hold their hand anymore and go over everything with them. With this in mind however, I don’t feel that grade deflation is the way to deal with the problem of student self-entitlement. Maybe if they just increased standards at the beginning of a semester and made that clear in the syllabus, it would be fair, but allowing a certain percentage of A’s is definitely not. This is like curving a test in the opposite direction. If a teacher makes a test too easy, they shouldn’t be able to take earned points away. Then one can make the argument, “If the test is too hard, why should the test be curved? Why isn’t it the students fault for not knowing the information?” To this, I say that professors should have a pretty good idea of what to expect from students. Most professors have been teaching the same courses for years. If you automatically were to curve a test to take points away from students, you are also taking away the chance for students to show they would have been able to perform just as well on a harder exam. Overall, I agree that students should get the grade they earn through tests and papers, not through the effort they put into a class. I also disagree with grade deflation to a certain degree. It would have to be done in the right way to make sure it’s fair, but in some instances it could work.
I think that the importance of grades is stressed way too much these days. Like Sam said, C’s earn degrees. I’m not saying that I’m perfectly content coasting by with the bare minimum, but I can say that if I get a C, it’s not the end of the world to me. I just never saw the point in slaving away at homework just to obtain an A. While people are dying of boredom in their rooms in front of their computers, I’m out living my life, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. In high school, I was in every club possible, including Spanish Club, MIC-SADD, Caring Team, and Interact Club, to name a few. I was also the captain of my swim team and in the Gifted program at my school. Luckily for me, everything just came easy. I didn’t spend hours studying, and I still graduated with above a 4.0. I got mostly A’s in high school, but it wasn’t the end of the world if I got a B or even a C. I recognized that I would always be an A student in English and a C student (if I was lucky) in math. Instead of getting worked up about it, I just accepted it. I attempted the method of studying for hours upon hours, but some things just don’t ever click for some people; math is that thing for me. On the other hand, I don’t think that developing a quota for the number of A’s that are allowed to be given out is right. I’ve taken classes where the average is a 95; I’ve also taken classes where the average is a 50. Some subjects are just inherently easier than others, so why should those students be punished? Why should professors be allowed to make classes more difficult just because too many people are getting A’s? Penn State certainly is not Princeton, and I’m not going to pretend to understand the way things work at an Ivy League institution, but limiting the number of A’s attainable just doesn’t seem right to me. I think that if people work for their grades and earn them fairly, they should be given the A. At the same time, I think that curves are fair for classes where the work is nearly impossible. If you have a class where over half the students have failed the exam and not one person has received an A, there’s something seriously wrong with that. I agree with grades being earned, but to tell students that no matter how hard they work, only a certain percentage of them will be allowed to receive an A for the work is like a slap in the face for the students who truly did earn an A and did not receive it because of some ridiculous quota.
As another student mentioned, since the beginning of times grades are said not to be given, but earned. So how is it possible to put a “limit” on the percentage of what students can earn? I was never an overachiever. In high school, I had no plans what so ever to get into a college or university. So while certain kids were busy studying hours for A’s, I was content with just getting C’s. I didn’t study, I didn’t do homework, I got the bare minimum and slid by carefree. Was this the best course to take? According to every teacher I had in high school, if you failed a math test, or did poorly on an English term paper, you would have no chance of getting into a college and you’d probably die lonely. I didn’t care though, it wasn’t a matter at the time. I put little to no thought into anything I did, because it seemed like no matter what, I was going to end up in the same place, with a degree from high school. Big deal, I could get a job in construction, and make what I thought would be a living. The only thing that actually motivated me to keep my grades somewhat up to par, was so I could be academically eligible to play lacrosse. And even that, sometimes wasn’t enough. But, anyway, these kids who were in “honors” classes, and had no social lives in high school because of their rigor for being “the best” academically, are now in no better position than me. A few of them, even though they were regarded as the smartest in the class, went to state schools, like East Stroudsburg or Kutztown. These were kids who people in my high school thought would be the next Einstein’s and Bill Gates, and yet their now majoring in Art History, or to be English teachers. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but what does that say about the grading systems in high schools when the avaledictorian is preparing to be a Elementry School teacher, and one of the people who fell to the bottom of the class ranks, is attempting to prepare for pre-law? It seems to me that grades, can be arbitrary and at times are nothing less than bullshit. Sure, having a 4.0 GPA will get you the better entry level job, but if you have no social or life skills that can help you from there, what good is it? I think schools put too much emphasis on certain things, and not as much on critical thinking, or creativity. I was shocked by how many of the kids I went to high school with totally screwed up in college because they didn’t have the life experiences to deal with and handle things, especially like drinking and time management. I think that if college do lower A’s given, so what? In my opinion, the people who are truly “smart”, will succeed no matter what, because I think success can’t be measured by writing a research paper on Shakespeare, or doing calculus, it’s how to make educated decisions concerning your life. However, if Penn State wants to put a restriction on the amount of A’s given, that’s fine… as long as they do it after I graduate.
This was an interesting blog for me to read because I am kind of torn between what to think about it. In high school I was an over achiever, I got nearly all A’s and graduated in the top ten in my class, however I did not have to try very hard to do so. I learned fairly quickly how to be a good test taker making me a shoe-in for Penn State and how this university is run. Even when I did not do so great on an exam in high school there was always a good deal of extra credit that I could do to keep me at A, whether I deserved it or not. I actually learned to depend on extra credit at times. When given the choice to stay home and study or go out with my friends, I would base my decision on how much extra credit I could do in the class and it didn’t matter how I got the A, as long as it was an A.
I came to Penn State as a biology major thinking I’d breeze through college like I did high school and quickly realized (well not as quick as I should have) that college is a whole different ball game. There is not much extra credit you can count on and if there is it’s certainly not enough to boost a score an entire letter grade. You also actually have to study a good deal in college, something else I never did in high school. Unfortunately it took me a whole year and a GPA of let’s just say less than passing to wake up to what school actually is like and what it takes…hard work. I just wish I would have known this sooner so that I wouldn’t have to spend the rest of my college career making up for the huge mistakes I made in the first year.
With that background I now come to a fork in the road. On one side I do not think I “deserve” an A. I think you really do have to work hard, above and beyond, to earn an A. Just because I got A’s in high school does not mean I could tell you what I learned the day after the exam, but in a few classes I have taken up here at PSU where I really did have to work to get an A (a few classes) I feel like I would be qualified to teach the course I know the material so well. I would actually be prepared to use my knowledge in a real world situation and be confident with my decisions. The other side of the story is that I feel the American education system is to blame for the situation we are in now with grade inflation and A’s galore. Everything focuses on getting the A, so that you can get into a good college, and then getting the A, so that you can get a good job, or so that you can get into grad school. It never seems to analyze what you learn per say, just how well you can do on an exam. Creative and outside-the-box thinking is not really assessed, real world application is not assessed, the only thing we are qualified to do is be a professional test taker. However, for the system to change, every single school must change its requirements. Otherwise some schools will always come out ahead, simply because their students get more A’s, whether or not they are actually more qualified. After this blog response I find myself bitter about my elementary school, bitter about my high school, and now bitter about Penn State. I am going to grad school after this and I am sure it too will be a whole new ball game, full of needed skills that I should have learned in college, but did not. Well with my test taking abilities now, at least I should be able to pull off a decent GRE score.
I think this subject could go both ways; we deserve the grades we get, and we deserve what we work for. High school is supposed to prepare you for college and what you'll need to know to succeed. That's a joke. I graduated 3rd in my class and did extremely well on SATs, but I can honestly say that in college I'm not doing soo hot. First of all, I didn't develop study habits in high school. It was too easy not to study and still do well. Secondly, the teaching method of each level of teachers is extremely different. However, I do believe that there should be more of a chance to do well in a class by having more than three exams, weighted on tons of reading and chapters to decide what you learn. For instance, my STAT 200 class taught by Professor Buchanan is a great class to have in college. There is a fair amount of work, but you truly earn the grade you receive. There are two short quizzes every week and only two exams and a final. Plus, if you do badly on a certain quiz or two, the lowest of each category of quiz is dropped. That gives you a chance to mess up, or miss something here and there, and still not completely suffer. That shows that you do earn your grade, because you get what you put in. One the other hand, the PHYSICS 250 I took here was ridiculous. You had lab to help you out, which was nice, because basically if you show up you get an A, but the tests were a scan-tron with mathematical calculations on the test. Therefore, if you get the answer wrong, you may have been doing the problem right, but plugged in a wrong number, and so you're just flat out wrong. A class with math in it at all, or where there is a chance you could be on the right track, just didn't approach it correctly in the end, should be taken into account. Tests like these should be given by hand, with all work shown, that way our teachers know were on the right track, just got the wrong answer, but can give a few points here and there to compensate. Also, in doing this, it wouldn't discourage kids as much. Some college students have their hearts set on certain career paths, but have to take courses like these to get there. It's not that they don't get what they are doing, or they just can't do it, it's that they aren't given the proper opportunities to excel. This results in many people getting discouraged and changing their major just to pass. I'm sorry but that's bullshit. College isn't supposed to discourage students from their dreams or deter them from success. I won't argue that it's supposed to help you learn that life is tough, and that you are growing up, but discouraging you is hardly the goal it should have. I believe that students should have more opportunities to get the grade, to have the chance to show they do know with tons of little assignments rather than 2 or 3 huge exams. If the professors are worried they don't have enough time to grade, and it's too much work for them, too damn bad. They shouldn't be teaching if they don't want to do all they can to help their students succeed and fulfill their dreams. Mad props go out to Sam for this SOC class simply because he does give opportunities to make the grade, even if you don't do well on the exams (like me). So no I don't feel that a ton of work should get you an A, I think a ton of work is necessary to help you learn, and be accomplished and go after your dreams, but the right kind of work. COLLEGE COURSES SHOULD NOT BE WEIGHTED ON 2 OR 3 HUGE EXAMS AND THAT'S IT. By this age, we are starting to reach the capacity for what we can learn and comprehend for a long period of time, so a test on 8 chapters expanding over a month’s time, isn't an accurate measurement of what we have learned! IT'S JUST NOT!
I’m not sure what to think of the grade inflation argument. On one hand, yes we can’t very well live in a collegiate society where all students are receiving “A” grades, because then what would be the point of going to college if we all came out ranked the same as when we had entered, there would be no way to “weed people out,” but on the other hand, if all students have become specialists in paper writing and exam taking, and do in fact earn “A” grades, then so be it. Coming from a nursing major, the concept of grade inflation is a little hard to understand. We really don’t have to write papers, or complete projects that would allow for grade negotiation. If I take an exam and get a 94, then that will be my grade, no questions asked – unless the teacher makes a mistake writing the exam. Also, if I take an exam and get a 70, then once again my grade stands. Nursing professors won’t change an exam grade just so your transcripts can appear more pleasing to the eye. And on a personal note – I don’t agree with “begging” a professor to change your grade or saying that your work deserved something better than what the professor originally thought. I think it is disrespectful as a student to question a professor’s judgment and it makes you look needy and desperate to beg for a better grade. The moral of the story when you receive a bad grade – just work harder and do better on the next one – there is always room for improvement. And the even bigger moral of the story – in the realm of the lifespan of a human being, what does one grade really matter in retrospect – because we’re all going to die anyway, and that one little grade wouldn’t have made much of a difference, if any, in one’s life, except a little personal dissatisfaction.
I think it is probably a good idea for professors to get together and devise a plan to reduce grade inflation in Universities. I have no problem working harder, if that is what it is going to take to be successful in a course. But I think doing so requires responsibilities on both parts, students AND professors. If a professors wants to reduce the number of “A” grades in their class, or make “A” grades harder to get, then they are going to have to make their exams harder. But if they are going to make their exams harder they will also have to become better professors. We can’t be expected to know a concept that was never clearly taught. And on the student’s part, they have to be willing to pay more attention in class and study harder. Reducing grade inflation is a two-way street but I think it is worth investigating. I know I would be annoyed if I was working twice as hard as someone else and smarter than someone else, but we ended up getting the same grade because they begged the professor to change theirs. I like teachers who say what you earn is what you get – there will be no grade negotiating – PERIOD.
I hate to say it but Professor Richards is a crusty old relic who is out of touch with the demands of the new global marketplace and the difficulties of landing a job or a position in some post-graduate program. But before the labeling begins and the subsequent name-calling follows, it is important to understand that it is not (entirely) his fault. After all, we do not blame our grandparents for being sadly out of touch with today’s world, for not understanding the shared plight of young adults across this great and fair land, for not recognizing the massive (almost lethal) amounts of pressure and stress placed on us by school, family and friends, and the media in everyday life, so why should we blame him? Now I will admit that I do not know how old Professor Richards is (I would guess somewhere in the ballpark of mid-thirties) but he most likely from a different generation and probably grew up in a time when the majority of people in this country had to, you know, actually work hard to, you know, actually get what they wanted. Can you believe that insane notion? That’s kooky talk. If you ask me, it would have been much, much, much easier to do very little or no work and exert very minimal or no effort to get what they wanted --- you know, just like we do today. And therein lies the problem: Professor Richards and, to a much larger extent, our parents and elders just do not “get” us from Generation Y, Generation X, Gen Xers, Generation Pepsi, or whatever the hell are generation is called. We have busy enough lives as it is; there is no way we can be expected to work hard at everything, including school. At some point, we need to get a break from all this madness and back-breaking labor, and finally start receiving what we are rightfully entitled to, namely free food and good grades. Sure, older generations may scoff at us and criticize our generation for being too weak and too wimpy. Well, to all the old people out there, if you have a problem with us, then you should just look in the mirror and complain because it is your entire fault --- completely, totally, absolutely, one-hundred-percent your fault. That’s right, much like Batman is directly responsible for making The Joker, you are responsible for us. You gave everyone --- EVERYONE! --- a trophy when we played baseball or soccer as young kids, fearing that one of us might cry if we were left out. What were you thinking? You made sure everyone --- once again, EVERYONE! --- got a gold star, even if they did nothing whatsoever, out of the fear that a disgruntled and overbearing parent might call the school and lodge a complaint. This is your doing, so do not act surprised as we react with shock and amazement when we fail to receive the grades you were giving us for no good reason in the first.
Attending any academically competitive school is guaranteed to augment peer and teacher pressure to do well. As a result, students literally fight for their grades. The fact that the number of A’s students received in Sam’s teaching career has increased 27% is because –I think—in addition to a sense of entitlement, students are more willing to express their opinions to professors, even if that is expressing displeasure with their grades. There has been a change in the difference of students and teachers (or more broadly, adolescents and adults) in the way the latter in respected. The two groups seem to be more integrated and interact on a more informal level. So, similar to the idea that classes and they way they are taught are no longer cut and dry, neither are grading systems. Fighting and begging for grades is only a small step below cheating; The objective of both is to better grades knowing that might not be as good otherwise.
I do not think that trying to set a percentage of how many students are allowed to get A’s is the way to solve the problem. I think teachers need to maintain their authority a little more and not let their relationship with the students influence a decision. Just being a little stricter in what teachers accept as a valid excuse to better a grade would be a fairer way to weed out those who do not actually deserve a high mark.
Meanwhile, students need to be more accepting. I agree that hyper efficient test prep and parental pressure are reasons why students are used to getting what they want. That changes in college, and students just do not accept that those same influences what help in the college classroom. For as long as modern grading systems have existed, a C has always meant average. Therefore, they should understand that they need to do something above average to be worthy of an above average grade.
On the other hand, curriculums are often tough. Meeting the minimum standards might require a lot of time and effort. And, as a typical bell curve indicates, a LOT of students do not even meet the standards. For that reason, one can also argue that “average” does not mean doing all the readings and assignments. I actually think it is more realistic to define average as having done MOST of the readings and assignments but maybe missing one or two. Therefore, if that becomes what a C is assigned to, it would still decrease the number A’s while also more fairly representing the effort and work of students.
It’s great that students are competitive and motivated to do well, but I think there needs to be a widespread effort to remind students that B’s are perfectly acceptable grades. Teachers also need to have less gray areas in their grading systems. If both occur, there will be fewer surprising grades and fewer students thinking that they deserved something higher or were cheated out of a grade.
The average student was brought up to believe that grades represent everything school stands for. Every time I came home from school with a “bad” grade, my mother would preach to me that grades were not important and that she was only concerned that I learn something through all my preparation for class. I always shrugged her off because it was hard for me to believe that studying to learn was more important that studying to score a 100 percent, when everyone else was stressing their grades so heavily. As sad as it sounds, students undeniably weigh their letter and number grades with their self worth. I personally feel a sense of reward when I earn a high score on a test or homework. It makes me feel as though my hard work has paid off but this gratification should come from learning in the classroom and gaining an understanding of the material.
In college, study habits differ from the norm in high school. The great deal of independence allows students to sleep through their classes and later turn to the many resources available like Nittany Notes, for example, to compensate for their unwillingness to attend or pay attention in class. They are constantly looking for the easy way out of situations. We are at college to study our specific fields of interest which should make us want to attend class and learn, rather than just cram the night before a test to earn a desired score. College should resemble the real world but this heavy emphasis put on grades shows no indication of reality outside of the universities.
Many students visit a teacher’s office hours (to beg for additional unwarranted points) only when they have received a bad grade on a test, which is a good indication that they did not understand the material. Fewer students take the time to meet with teachers when they get good grades to better grasp and review concepts they may not have gotten correct; these are the students I perceive as dedicated and devoted to their learning experience.
I am certain that many learning institutions would change their assessment policies if they discovered a superior manner in which to evaluate a student’s understanding of the material. Unfortunately, no one has found a more just way to judge the students who are poor test takers. I would say that the best solution at this point is to do away with grades and hopefully personal motivation will stimulate students to continue to stay dedicated.
Students should want to go to class and learn about material that is of interest to them. And teachers should make their courses inviting and rewarding for students so they have the chance to explore the possibility that grades may not represent everything the class and students stand for.
This whole blog really makes me laugh. Its funny how the issue is split down 2 sides and when you look at those on each side it is easy to see students on one and teachers on the other. This kind of leaves me in the middle. Yes, I am a student but I am a student learning to be a teacher. I feel kind of insulted that you sit there and say to my face there’s no way that you students and the ones before could get any smarter because really we could. But I do not think that is what is happening here. Half of me believes yea grades should be more exclusive and getting an A should be a bit harder than maybe it has been in the last few years. Some teachers really crack down and look a their grading scales, rubrics and syllabus more carefully. Not that I would complain or argue about it with the professor but there has been more than one occasion that at the end of the semester I go to look at my final grades and I think wow how did I end up getting an A in that class when 2 weeks ago I had a C-.
It sort of makes me think I got a little push from a teaching assistant along the way. Also as I was reading other people’s responses I saw some people saying that they should be rewarded for effort. Meaning that they should get credit for going to office hours staying after class and all that. I’m sorry but no I really disagree. How much effort a person shows is so freaking subjective. Like if you spend 10 minutes in office hours do receive less credit than someone who really doesn’t get the material and spends an hour there. Where do you draw the line. Do the dumb people get an A just for trying? Also what about that girl, the girl who goes to office hours not because she wishes to further her understanding of a topic discussed in class but she does go because she wants to boost her grade a bit. You all know what I am saying here. She was at office hours for a half hour does she get effort for “trying?” In this day and age god I hope not.
On the other side though I feel for a lot of people. The fact of the matter is that your grade is not how well you can do in just that class but how well you can do in that class as well as balancing your time with other classes and activities you do at school. If we were all just taking one or two classes at a time I would say that yes A’s should be harder to get. But most full time students are taking five or 6 classes so maybe that grading scale that exists now already factors that balance into it.
Although it may be a relief that people have started to examine grades, that does not go as far as to assume students are not smarter than they were 18 years ago. Many things are going in the student’s favor since 1990, including technology and competition to name a few, and these things assist students in their education.
The internet was not used nearly as often as it is today. Today, classes can be taken from your bedroom, information can be found on almost anything, and it is fast and reliable. In comparison to students in 1990, students currently browse the web for whatever is on their mind. Twenty years ago, this would have to be done at the library by going through the card catalogue and then finding the book. After the book was found, you would have to go into the table of content and find what you were looking for. Then you would have to read until you found exactly what you were looking for. Quite complicated, right? Today, a simple search on Google is all that is needed to find what you are looking for. After accessing the website, you can use the find feature and find exactly what you want. The invention of the internet has decreased the time spent finding information and increased the time spent actually learning about what it is that interests you.
In addition, classes being offered online allows students to learn on their schedule, not one that is put on paper and has to be followed. Taking a class online makes it convenient for students to learn, rather than going to a class that they may have no interest in that day. On top of this, many students are self-motivated and want to learn and want to get good jobs. Because of this, I think that more classes are going to be offered online.
High school is also becoming much more competitive than it was in 1990. Almost everyone goes to college now, compared to people in the 90’s. I know it hasn’t changed drastically, but it’s definitely not comparable to back then. In order to get into college now, you have to have so many activities and sports and so on. I wouldn’t say it is impossible to do nothing and get into a decent college, but it is highly unlikely. With this comes better time management skills. People get their work done and get it done more efficiently. When it comes time to actually go to college, work is much harder and they are better prepared to complete their work. Along with this, parents are much harder on their children and there is more pressure to get good grades. Parents used to be happy solely because their children were getting a college education; however, today parents get mad if students get C’s and B’s, or that is how my father is.
At the same time, schools should not limit the amount of ‘A’ grades they are allowed to give. That is stripping a student of their ability to perform to their best. If a student does as best as they can and gets an A, where does someone get off at telling them they got a B. A teacher’s job isn’t to hand out grades, a student earns them. When a teacher starts grading in that manner is where they should not have a job anymore. They got there the same way that we are going to be getting jobs. Just because they have the upper hand does not give them the ability to assign grades based on what they think. That is just plain ridiculous and should not be present in America’s schooling system.
Because of technological advancements, increased competition, and more pressure from parents, I believe that students have gotten that much smarter. I don’t think that tests are the proper way to judge someone’s intelligence. Someone can try so hard and get a bad grade. For instance, I took an exam today and nothing that I studied was on the test. Now something is wrong there. I could go on and on about testing and being a poor way to judge intelligence, but that is a different story.
It’s ridiculous that a school like Princeton would use a grade deflation system. If I were choosing between Princeton and another university that did not use the system, I am fairly sure I would choose the other university. Schools should not be limiting the amount of As they give out. They should especially not be setting a percentage, like 35%. What is the difference between the students who have quality of work in the 36th percentile versus those that have quality of work in the 34th percentile? Very little, I am sure.
Personally I think EVERY grading system in this country needs to be reformed. It’s a crazy, out there idea I know, but seriously. If all schools were on the same scale, no one would be complaining. Okay so that sounds a little like communism, but that is not my intention. I know some schools are more prestigious than others (like the Ivy League schools) and community colleges can’t really be held to the same standards. Or can they? Obviously the quality of professors varies, but we have some pretty crappy and some pretty amazing professors here, as I’m sure Princeton must experience as well.
What I’m really trying to say is, according to our current system, grades are issued in a rather subjective way. Professors evaluate our work based on whether or not they feel it is up to their standards. This would all be fine and good if professors laid out exactly what they expect from students. Instead professors, at least in my experience, are vague and unclear about what they want from students. They comment on our work and offer suggestions, but when we make improvements it is still not good enough. Take my creative advertising class for example. I have a lecturer (he is not certified to teach) with a ton of experience in the advertising industry. This guy has worked on campaigns for everything from Locks of Love to Lance snack crackers over his 40 years of working in the industry. Throughout this semester we have turned in a total of six projects. Everyone in the class has yet to figure out exactly what he wants from us – our grades vary, our comments vary, when we change things he still hates them. It is out of control. He is looking for work that resembles his own. But I do not have 40 years of advertising experience, nor do I even want to work on the creative side of advertising. So, my grade is suffering because I am unable to give him exactly what he wants because I do not know what he wants!
That was a bit of a rant, but it’s frustrating. If professors were more objective in their grading, I don’t think there would be as many As as one might think. And, if students know what is expected of them, they cannot be angry when they don’t receive the grade they want. It’s as easy as that.
While both the teachers and students bring up good points I think the answer to the grade inflation issue involves both sides of the argument to reach a mutual agreement. Universities and professors are arguing that students should not expect A’s, while students are arguing that professors have impossible standards and are unrealistic with their expectations. I do agree with professors in that students should not expect to receive A’s in all of their classes with minimal effort. The Standard Bell Curve does not support the idea that all students should receive A’s and be at the top of their class, and most professors use the Standard Bell Curve. My problem with the Standard Bell Curve is that it expects majority of students to receive between a 75 to an 85 for their overall score. This should not be the general expectation because many colleges have GPA requirements that require students to have high GPA’s just to stay in their major of choice. Because of these GPA expectations it is unfeasible for students to be satisfied with an 85 because that may not be a high enough grade for a student to advance in their major. I know that I personally need to maintain a 3.3 Cummulative GPA just to remain in my major and achieving a 75-85 grade average in my classes would not allow this. If students did not receive A’s they wouldn’t be able to graduate with the degrees they desire. As a result of this either GPA requirements should be lower to correspond with the Standard Bell Curve or the Bell Curve needs to be reevaluated in order to let students stay in their majors.
The next point I want to address is how students expect their “hard work” to translate into good grades. I don’t know why a student who claims to attend all class lectures and complete all required reading assignments would not be able to receive an A. Students who skim by with minimal effort certainly don’t deserve A’s however I don’t know why a hard working student wouldn’t be able to get an A. Pleading with a professor for a better grade is obviously a sign that one’s work was not A material. In this case the student should learn that their level of work is not enough. The worst part of this subject matter is that society sets impeccably high standards for students and at the same time universities are trying their hardest to keep students from achieving the grades they need to succeed after graduation. Society wants A’s and students want A’s, but teachers don’t want to give A’s because this upsets the Bell Curve average. Between all three parties there cannot be three winners in the current system. Princeton’s approach to the problem has seemed to create paranoia and separation within the student body which I find to be a hostile college environment.
While I do believe that students are easily handed A’s, at the same time, the focus in this topic cannot just be on the students. The teachers are the ones giving students these grades. So, I also think that with this topic, it really depends on the situation- meaning the student, the work they have put forth and the teacher. Teachers can range from being very strict to easy, and sometimes A’s are given by easy teachers and this creates the mindset that many students have today. As stated in the article, I think a lot of this stems from the K-12 years. Teachers may think that because students are at a younger age that they might not have to be as harsh on grading. But this truly affects children in the long run, because they end up doing the same average work into college that they learned would award them A’s. When their college professor, gives them a C, the students can’t help but think that they deserve an A, because they were used to getting A’s for the same type of work they submitted during the years of K-12. From personal experience though, I think I like having the teacher who gives you the average grade, even when you think you put your all into the work you did. You end up learning more about the subject and about your own personal skills in that area of study. For example, in the fall of my junior year I had a Journalism professor in which I couldn’t bear to be in her class. Initially, every piece of work I handed in I thought I did such a good job on and it would be handed back with red ink everywhere and a C or D grade. I remember just continually complaining about it. But, I realized that as the semester continued my grades increased, and at the end of the semester on the most important assignment out of the entire semester I received an A. And to be honest, I truly felt like I earned that A. I had worked through so many C’s and D’s, editing, and re-writing, but I realized it really made me understand the idea of earning an A. And it felt so much more rewarding than just given an A for simply doing average work on the assignments at the beginning of the semester. The best part of this was that I actually took away a lot of information from that class and information that has really stuck with me. I think as far as the deflation idea, I personally think it really creates an incentive for students to truly earn the grades they want. While, it may be unfortunate that this idea results in a competition amongst students, I think it really gives them a desire to really push harder to achieve the grades they want. I think students would also want to learn the material better and understand it completely, knowing that this could potentially help them in getting one of the fewer A’s given out.
If I had complete control of the United States education system, I would immediately eliminate the grading system in the public and private schools. I think awarding people number or letter grades to reflect their efforts and work is not fair. There are students like myself who attend all of the classes, do all of the reading and homework, and study weeks in advance for tests. However I still may receive a B in the course. On the other end of the spectrum, there are students who do not go to class, do any of the homework or readings, and end up pulling off the same grade as myself or even an A. I do not think grades properly reflect someone’s efforts or knowledge of the subject matter.
Even with this said, I understand in this hard economy and competitive job industry there needs to be higher standards and obstacles set in order to filter out some of the people. I do not understand though how top teachers can say only 40% of students in this class are allowed to get A’s. There should not be a limit put on the amount of students allowed to get A’s. Receiving grades should be strictly determined through a student’s performance on tests, quizzes, and projects, along with a heavy emphasis on the amount of effort put into their work. I always make it a point to get to know my teacher, and let them know that I am a conscience student who cares a lot about her school work. However in the end, this may not even matter when grades are being decided upon.
This article fueled and stirred up my feelings and emotions regarding grades. I try very hard in school and I feel most of the time it is not reflected. Unfortunately I would like to say what I get in classes that do not count towards my major do not matter, but they do. A student’s cumulative GPA is very reflective of their chances as well as the positions they will get in the future. If there is a manager seeking an employee, and they are reviewing two applicants with the same experience and background, and the only difference is one GPA is higher than another, unfortunately the manager will tend to choose the one with the higher GPA. Is this decision really fair? What about the students who tried really hard but did not appear so dedicated on paper? Should their future success be penalized because of a low number or letter grade? How accurate is a person’s grade in reflecting their work ethic and morals? I think when it comes to applying for jobs or internships, it should be the interview that holds the majority of the decision making rather than a GPA that is written on a resume.
This issue of grade inflation is something that my dad has been saying since my older brothers have been in high school. He would state that is seems today that almost everyone gets As. Then he would say that when he was in high school or college he would bring home report cards with possibilities of Cs or Ds and he was proud of those grades because he worked hard for them. My dad believe that the reason the teachers give more As are because it makes the students happy because they are getting good grades, the parents are happy because there child is doing well in school, and the teachers are also happy because they do not have to deal with angry parents mad about the possibility that their child may fail the course. So I can see giving more As out to student is more beneficial for everyone.
In the article it discusses the point that more college students believe that they should receive at least a B by just showing up to class and doing all the required work and I think that is very true. I feel that I should be receiving a decent grade compared to others then never attend class and if I do not receive a good grade I will be upset. But the one thing that I have noticed is I can go to class and get my grade but some classes I do not remember the material that was discussed once I have finished the course. I mean maybe this is the problem and what the article was trying to address that because we are lower are standards for students to receive these good grades college and universities are not producing as smart students as they were producing a few decades ago. However, are those days over that every single part of material is memorized? I think this is true due to the development of the internet. The internet has changed the world dramatically and if someone does not know an answer to a problem it can be found out quickly. So I think that colleges are just adjusting the grading system based upon the new generation technology and that we cannot go by how things were a few decades ago and their standards. Maybe students do not have to be as educated because of the technology that is now available to us. I think that if Penn State would try to change its grading policy and make it more difficult in order to get As I think they will be a big uproar and many students will become upset. Then it will just cause more frustrating among all the parties involved. Plus this is also an issue that cannot be done individually by colleges because if one school makes their grading policy more rigorous then it is going to hurt students when they are looking into going to med school or law school and their GPA is not high enough to get in. I also think that the grading system for undergrad students should remain the same because if students want to continue their education and become more knowledge they should go to graduate school and that is where they should have difficult classes and grading systems.
This has been an issue that I have been concerned with for several years. I started to take note of this problem when I was in high school and my peers and I were very concerned with grades. It was not longer acceptable to receive any grade besides an “A”. I noticed that my peers felt extra pressure because of the stressors of applying to college; and now that I am in college I can say the same for my peers and the pressures to get into a good grad school or to obtain their dream jobs. I think it is ridiculous that most students are not satisfied with a grade that is lower then an “A”. A “C” is supposed to be average yet I know that most would be extremely disappointed with that grade. The feeling that students have today, that if they put effort into their studies and do exactly what they are supposed to do then they should receive a perfect grade, is ridiculous. Students who go far beyond what they are supposed to do and show extra effort are the ones who are supposed to receive an “A”.
I think that this sense of entitlement to good grades that students feel is defiantly in part to their K-12th grade experience as professor Brower stated. In my high school it was extremely easy to receive a good grade; in face it was nearly impossible to ever fail a class. I know that my school handed out so many high grades to make out district look better then other local school districts. It was more important for my school to be thought of as a top high school then it was for students to actually receive the grades that they deserved. This made it difficult for me and others in my district to truly understand how much effort goes into obtaining a good grade; since we were able to receive these grades with minimum effort. I think that a lot of college students feel entitled to good grades because of their previous experience in grade schools.
As far as a grade-deflation policy goes I do not agree with this system. There shouldn’t be a set percent of students who are allowed to receive an “A” or any grade. Of course this would encourage students to work harder if they knew that there were a limited amount of “A”s to go around but I just don’t think it’s fair. I think that whoever deserves an “A” should receive one and that a student shouldn’t have to receive a lower grade just because too many other students also deserve an “A”.
I grew up with absurd standards for myself in terms of grades. I never let myself get below an A- throughout my entire middle school and high school career. Coming into college I expected that it would be easy to keep up a 3.75 GPA and really didn’t expect to get lower than A-‘s in anything. I worked hard and if I cared about the class would do well. Then I went to Brazil for a summer study abroad program. I was in an economics class that was way above my level. I honestly cared so so much more about being in brazil and learning about the culture and getting an immersion experience that school definitely came second. That meant I did the bare minimum for the econ class and ended up with a B-. Now when I got my grade back I was extremely upset. This was right after my Freshman year and I still had a pretty high GPA. A B- brought down my GPA significantly and made it impossible to get it back up. And so since that day I have stopped caring about grades. I might be lucky, but when I care about a class I will put in the effort and do a good job on everything and do well. If I don’t like the class than I will do the minimum required and still pass. It’s definitely easy to pass a class, it’s even easy to get a B in a class with very little effort and never reading, but I really don’t think it’s that easy to get an A. The classes I get A’s in are the classes that I am educationally prepared for, I try in, and I want to be in. Because of gen eds and shit there are so many classes I have taken that I really don’t care about and these are the ones I don’t do well in. The thing is, I actually care more about the grades in those classes than the ones I like. In a class I like even if I end up with a lower grade, I will be okay with it because I felt like I learned something and it was worthwhile. On the other hand, I have taken many classes that weren’y worthwhile and brought down my GPA. I think this is a bit ridiculous. Why I it necessary for a Spanish major to take 3 science classes? Honestly I would learn so much more that is actually applicable to life if instead of having to take those 9 credits of science I could take 9 credits of sociology. Also, after a year of college I found out that I learn as much if not more from my extracurricular activities and because of this classes often come 2nd to the activities I’m involved with. I realize that I learn so much from them that they really are often more important that homework for a stupid geology class.
While reading this article I got angry thinking about all the students who work just as hard as the next but come up short to get that A just because there is a cut off of how many students can receive an A. I am at Penn State to become a future educator and this idea that only so many students can get an A is barbaric. Every student learns in their own individual way and often students understand the material but cannot put that knowledge down onto paper to ace a test. I think that our education system is too concerned about standardized tests, or tests in general to reflect our grades and that shouldn’t be the only thing determining our grades. Some students can not go to a single class and still get A’s on all the tests, but that’s not fair to the students that go to every class, take notes religiously, and study for hours for each test. I do agree with the article when it says that grades should not just be handed out to students, but I do not agree that effort should not be a big contribution to someone’s grade. Thinking about having my own classroom one day I would never want any of my students to try anything but their best. And if I only allowed 35% of them to get A’s then I am telling them that average is okay, and I would never want to undermine any of my student’s ability to receive that letter grade that they want. What really infuriates me is most of the information on tests is facts and formulas and information that won’t be remembered as soon as a test is taken, what does this help in the real world? If education would be more lax about the actual grade and standardized tests and actually teach students how to involve this material into everyday life then it wouldn’t be forgotten. Or if students actually loved what they were learning without so much pressure to memorize pointless facts and formulas then students would be able to put more energy into understanding the big picture. These students that show that they are motivated and determined for these grades, putting in the extra effort and extra time to receive that A, why should they be punished because teachers are expecting the majority of their students to receive a C. I just think it’s a ridiculous idea and I do not understand why there needs to be a cut off. Let me reiterate that I do not agree with teachers that just hand out an easy A, but I do believe that not all students can show their knowledge in the same way and those students that are extremely motivated and show how much they care to get a good grade should stand out in a teacher’s mind because those are the students that truly want to do well at school and in life.
I agree that the whole concept of grading has gone too far in today’s society. More A’s are being given out and more people are grubbing for better grades to every professor. That is not to say that I am above this; I am definitely in the same boat with a lot of people in terms of wanting/expecting good grades. I do not think there is a single cause for this; instead I think it stems from many factors. One factor is definitely parents. I do not know what parents were like 30-40 years ago, but from what I have heard there is a lot more parental pressure now than before. For me, the worst feeling in the world is letting people down, especially those close to me. There have been quite a few times in high school or college when I felt that I worked/studied really hard and got a “B.” I was often satisfied if I knew I did my best, but when I would tell my parents I got a “B” (and saying it proudly) they would look at me with disgust and ask why I did not do better. One of the most memorable moments in my life was when my brother (who is 4 years older than me) came home with an 84 on his test and my parents congratulated him. I then showed them my 91 and they asked me why I didn’t do better. The discussion of why they were happy for him but not me is an entire other discussion altogether, but that disgust of theirs sticks with me still today. Many parents (including my own) have become perfectionists and for whatever reason I would still feel horrible for letting them down. I knew that their perfect standards were unreachable, but I couldn’t settle for anything less. Therefore, if I tried really hard and got a “B” on something, I would try to persuade my teacher to bump it up to an “A” (similar to many students). After years of letting my parents down and feeling horrible, I finally decided that I did not care what they thought and I would judge my satisfaction on my own expectations rather than theirs. If more students ignored the unrealistic expectations around them and had reasonable goals, there would be a lot less grade scrutiny now. I think another factor of people thinking they deserve certain grades is because some people go through high school earning straight A’s and being the best in their class and then they go to a place like Harvard where everybody else is the same way. Obviously Harvard cannot give out 100% A’s even though that is what their students are used to (from their high school years). Many people do not understand that college is more challenging. Getting an A at Harvard should mean being one of the best at Harvard, not one of the best in high school. And this is true for all schools (not just Harvard), where people expect their grades in high school to continue in college. It doesn’t work that way.
While I read the article “Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes” I laughed at some of the things mention because I have found myself saying the same things myself. For example if I do all the reading and attend class then I expect to get at least a B. I think this is how many college students feel but in my experience that is how it has been. Many professors give an attendance grade, homework grades, and test grades. Even if you receive a C on the test you can most likely bring your grade up to a B with the homework and attendance grades. As I read the article I do agree that a C is a default grade. If you achieve the minimum requirements you should not expect a grade any higher. A grade of an A has more to do than the effort you put into it which is not what Jason Greenwood thought. Greenwood said the more effort you put in the more credit you receive. A student should have to be able to connect the material learned in class and expand on that. They should look beyond the hard facts. This is hard to do however when the questions are multiple choice or math problems when there is just one right answer.
I do not know if they should put a limit on the percentage of A’s made in the class. I know it is rare to have a class of geniuses but each group of students in a class is different. Have a certain quota may discourage students to try harder because they may not think they are capable of being at the top thirty-five percent of their class. It may even keep a student from taking a certain class. I really hope we do not start doing this at Penn State.
I agree with the statement made in the article about student expectations stemming from the K-12 years. I went to a public school and they praised you on how well you worked and each type of test was pretty much the same. I learned how much I needed to study in order to get an A. I would not explore what I learned or study any more than I had to. I thought most of high school was pretty easy I mastered the technique to receiving an A. The last thing I just want to mention is the argument students make when they receive a bad grade that Dean Hogge of Vanderbilt made a comment about; they blame it on the teacher. This has always bothered me. If you did not study, you did not study. Therefore you are unprepared and should not blame your troubles on someone else.
I think grade inflating is wrong but trying to decrease average grades is also wrong. My high school went by percentage not by GPA. When I graduated high school I had about a 98 percent. I do find myself to be smart, but a 98 percent is pretty high. Now I know if you do the work that you can achieve good grades. When I first started high school I was all about doing my work, as ridiculous as that seems it true. Once I started to realize I could get away with not doing work to the best of my ability and still receive an A. After I learned this I stopped working so hard. Especially after I received my acceptance letter to Penn State in October 2004, everything went downhill after that. I’m slightly ashamed to say that I have continued my habit during my four years at Penn State. Most of the classes I have taken here I can half ass my work and still get an A. I would like to be challenged a more, but some days I truly enjoy not doing much work. I don’t think that if you do the assignment you should get a C. I do think that is unfair. The professors should give you clear directions and the tools you need to work for an A. If the professors think that students do not deserve the A they receive then they should make the work more challenging.
The opposite effect of only allowing a certain percentage to receive an A in the course is not something I agree with either. It isn’t fair to only allow a certain number. The professor does not know what each student will turn in. In the extremely rare chance that each and every student turns in a paper or assignment that well exceeds the directions and they all deserve A’s, then what would the teacher do if they could only give out a certain amount of A’s.
Grades are a tricky thing to begin with. I have turned in assignments where I thought I should have done a lot better. It is all up to one person review of your work. I also think that schools depend and judge people on their grades too much. I know they are important but they should also go on the persons personality and extra activities. I am very nervous about applying to graduate school. I do not do well on standardize testing. A big part of whether or not I get accepted to graduate school is my GMAT score. They other are being my grades. So if I can’t do well on a standard exam my next bet is grades. I need to be able to achieve to good grades to help me get in.
Grade inflation is a problem that has been around for years and years. From the time that I was little I have always believed that only A’s were acceptable grades. The grade that should mean exceptional has become expected. Long gone are the days where a C was average and the most common grade, a B was very good, and an A represented an impressive academic achievement. The result of this shift in thinking is that while student’s GPA’s have steadily risen, their work ethic has declined drastically. Although this may not be an issue of national importance it is certainly something that needs to be addressed by educators. Students who don’t learn at an early age to value hard work are unlikely to be successful as adults because they will be too accustomed to getting what they want with little effort. While it is easy to say that the best remedy for this problem is to simply have teachers revert back to the old style of grading the truth is that the problem goes much deeper. Embedded deep into our culture, the problem is that we as a collective unit have become too preoccupied with getting ahead to pay attention to our actions along the way. The problem starts early on in our childhood when we internalize the belief that winning is everything. Parents pressure their children to win at all costs probably because they derive a self-esteem bump from watching their children succeed. However there is a price to pay, children never learn how to enjoy the ride instead focusing solely on the outcome. When the outcome is not to their liking, they often feel as though they have wasted their time without learning something about themselves process. For instance a child who trains really hard and still doesn’t make the soccer team may only remember that he failed. He will take no value from the dedication and perseverance he showed while practicing leading up to the tryouts. Regardless of whether or not he enjoyed this time it will be looked upon as wasted because it did not give the desired result. Ultimately the consequence of this way of thinking is a society of overstressed and constantly displeased people. This is certainly not the type of society that is going to see itself make any huge gains when compared to the nations where work ethic is a constant and valuable tool. While there are many ways to address this situation one way in which parents could directly affect the temperament of the next generation is for them to take the pressure off their children to be the best. Instead the emphasis should be on doing your best and learning more from the journey than the outcome.
High school was pretty easy for me: always high grades and getting on distinguished honor roll. But then again, isn’t that the same experience for most of Penn State Students, at least at University Park? Penn State UP does not enroll students with low grades. They only accept high school students who got a specific score on the SATs and had a specific GPA. But college is different than high school. That is why there are standards for the incoming freshmen. College pushes you and encourages you to look beyond what you already know and apply it to things that you do know, like the New York Times’ article stated. With that said, I don’t agree with the fact that there should be a grade-deflation. Students work hard for their grades, at least some of them, including myself. I recently just got a ten-page paper back in which I worked extremely hard on and only received an 89%. At first I was mad about it thinking I should have done better, but then looking at grading rubric, I realized that the grade I earned reflected what I wrote. Professors have guidelines for grades just like the university has guidelines for incoming students. I earned that grade (by the way I think 89% is still an excellent grade, I just thought I did better), just like students who receive A’s earned theirs. Why do we need to deflate the grades just so a quota can be filled? College is already challenging and when professors say there are only so many students permitted to receive A’s is just unfair. If a student works hard, puts a lot of time and effort into their work and studies, then clearly they should receive a high grade. That’s not to say that even if they work hard and fail tests, then no, they shouldn’t receive an A. I just think that if a student deserves and A, give it to them.
I have already had some professors say that only so many students were receiving A’s during a semester. When one told the class this on syllabus day, everyone was pissed. I’m not sure if he actually followed through with this, but I know I got an A. Maybe he said it so the students would work hard to earn the A and maybe even instill a little competition with the students to fight for the A. I don’t know how many people actually earned an A in the class, but I know he would tell us after our exams that the average was too high so he was going to make the tests harder. For one test, he even omitted some questions just to make the average lower. I thought this was ridiculous, but I had no control over what he did. All I know is that if Penn State decides to implement a grade-deflation, students are going to only take courses that have reputations of being easy and try to get around most challenges. If officials think that students will benefit from a grade deflation, I honestly believe they’re wrong. If anything, it’s going to hinder student’s educations because they are going to be taking “easy” courses to get an A. Students take pride in their grades and taking that away from them will also hurt their self-esteem. And the most extreme outcome could even be less students applying and enrolling at Penn State.
When I read the blog entry about grades, I must say I really wasn’t shocked by the statistic that it seems as though the number of A’s that students are getting is going up and up. I agree that this has nothing to do with our generation being smarter perhaps but I think it more has to do with the pressure to succeed and BE successful that today’s student feel in order to make something of themselves in today’s tumultuous business world. Simply thinking back to some of my classmates that I’ve spent time with before, I can recall that there are some student who would literally do anything just to get the letter A on their report cards. It didn’t matter whether they actually understood the material or even really learned anything from the class, all that mattered was what was on that piece of paper. I can even recall specific instances when I was in the IB (international Baccalaureate program) where certain “predicted scores” were needed in order to apply to certain universities. Some of the lengths that student would go to just to get an A, I found obsessive. Some would go to their teachers office hours to plead for a grade that maybe some of them didn’t even deserve, and yet the teachers would give in and give them those grades just in exchange for a promise that the student will do better, or because of a threat that the student will withdraw any funding from the school, etc. it seems as though maybe our society has really lost the whole meaning of what the grading system actually was, because it all just seems so political these days, who can “squeeze” an A out of their teachers.
On the other hand though, I would like to highlight the fact that I do not find what Princeton University is doing to be fair at all either. I think that capping the number of As you will give your students is ridiculous. What if there happened to truly be more A deserving students one year who did not fit into the A quota? What would you do? Would you simply punish those students because they didn’t fit into your pretty little 35% margin? This seems a bit extreme. I think that grading in itself and the competitiveness to the extreme that schools are pressing on their students lately has gotten way out of hand. I think everyone needs to step back and realize that although the job market is not in the best of situations right now, and everyone wants to be number one, this educational process can not be viewed as such a competition to the degree that it is right now. Student will be losing the purpose and meaning of their classes and their passion to learn if all they are doing is just trying to get an A.
I am glad Sam put this article in as a change of pace. Grades, papers and tests are all things that every student here at Penn State faces on a day to day basis, and its interesting to see the number of A grades here as well as in other top universities. From my standpoint, being an Elementary Education major has definitely helped in getting the good grades I do. But at the same time, I do work hard for most of the grades I get. I also feel I might work harder for the lower grades that come out after finals. Granted, I’ve enrolled in mandatory classes for my major that are joke classes to me. I do not know if this is because of the type of student I am and have been raised to be. All my life I remember studying one or two nights before an exam, studying a few periods before a vocab quiz, and waiting until the night or two before a big paper was due. I am beginning to think that my brain and body works better when I am under pressure and NEED to finish. No, I do not like staying up until 4 or 5 in the morning and getting a few hours of sleep, but it seems to work well for me.
I am not the type of person to complete an assignment the day its assigned, like some people I’ve met here at Penn State.
Meanwhile, my Speech Pathology Major best friend over at Towson University complains how school is so hard and how she barely hangs on with her grades she needs. I am sure if my major was like hers, or Biology or Pre-med, my course load would seem never ending, and my methods of studying and writing papers would not get me very far. Not saying I would not be able to change my ways in order to well, because who doesn’t like to get good grades?
This grading frenzy of being stingy on handing out A’s may of hit a few teachers I have had, but luckily I have not been hit too hard by this change. Or maybe the way I do things somehow fit into exactly what the teachers are looking for. Either way, I plan on finishing college with great grades, a great GPA, and hopefully a great job awaiting me somewhere out there.
As for all you students who find themselves studying every day, and reading every night, my thoughts are with you. Hang in there; it will pay off one of these days.
First of all, it’s very difficult for me to take an objective viewpoint on the issue of grade inflation simply because I know I have benefitted from it and I have the same opinion as the students interviewed in the article. I do believe that if I put a substantial amount of effort into a project or paper I deserve to be rewarded with a good grade. Of course, I know that the quality of my work is being graded and not my effort, but I still feel as though “giving it the old college try” should play a role in how I am graded. However, the one factor that complicates this issue is every student is going to put forth a different amount of effort. As my mom likes to say, “Some kids just ‘get it,’” and don’t have to spend as much time on a paper or project as others do and are able to pull in stellar grades. I guess what I’m getting at is that professors should take these two factors, effort and quality, into account when determining grades for their students. If a student is trying extremely hard (e.g., coming into office hours or staying after class to try to understand the material) but just cannot turn in quality assignments, I think it’d be almost heartless to give that student a bad grade. I feel as though this is not beneficial to anyone and a student who is treated this way will just give up. At the same time, I believe a student who is able to turn in quality assignments with little to no effort (e.g., not coming to class, being inattentive) deserves to be punished a little for not taking the material or their education seriously.
It all eventually comes back to the teacher though. If students are receiving mediocre grades the school is going to wonder why and begin to point fingers at the teacher. I mean, hundreds of students couldn’t be wrong, right? So teachers give in to a little grade inflation here and there and everyone is happy. After all, we have become a society that is more focused on results than what is actually learned. This is why students cram for exams rather than reading and studying their notes throughout the semester and gradually learning the information. We cram it into our brains for an upcoming exam and then forget about it as soon as we’ve received our grade. From what I hear, this is quite different than some Asian countries that take an entirely different perspective on education. But, with national policies that are results-oriented like No Child Left Behind still floating around, how can we expect the focus to change from results to more comprehensive learning?
This article kind of left me feeling a little mad about the fact that universities and teachers are trying to limit the amount of A’s given out. I understand that many classes are a lot easier to achieve better grades in, but there are of course other classes that are harder. I agree that the default grade is a C. If someone does the minimum work required for the class such as readings and homework then they should be given an average grade. But for those that go beyond expectations for the class and try a lot harder should be awarded with a better grade. I guess it made me kind of angry because I am really hard on myself about grades. I hate getting anything lower than a B so I usually put as much effort and try as hard as I can in every class. So naturally, after it’s all said and done I feel as though I deserve a good grade. I think that’s how most students feel, especially when they know they tried their hardest. I agree with Mr. Greenwood “I think putting in a lot of effort should merit a high grade, what else is there really than the effort that you put in?” I do not agree with limiting the amount of A’s given out to students because if all of them deserve it why should they be given a lower grade than what they earned? Also, how would teachers decipher which students are worthy effort of a C or an B or an B or an A? What are the guidelines? I also agree with Mr. Greenwood when he says “If someone goes to every class and reads every chapter in the book and does everything the teacher asks of them and more, then they should be getting an A like their effort deserves. If your maximum effort can only be average in a teacher’s mind, then something is wrong.” I defiantly agree with this statement because what else do teachers expect their students to do if they are putting every effort into their class? I do not think it would be fair for a student to complete all the required assignments and do really well on all the tests and still only receive a grade lower than an A. At that point, one would wonder how it is ever possible to do well in the class and probably become very discouraged. Another thing that bothered me about the article was Dean Hogge’s statement about how when students get a bad grade they blame it on the teacher. This really bothers me because its not fair when the teacher is blamed for when a student did not put in enough effort. Doing well is the students responsibility, along with the teachers too, but they can’t force their students to study for an exam or do homework assignments.
I have been battling between these notions of learning for my own knowledge and learning in order to receive a good grade for as long as I can remember. Following the footsteps of my older brother who graduated fourth in his class and my sister who graduated fifth in her class, I was bound to live up to high expectations from my parents and myself. I can't even describe to you the countless number of times that I have studied for exams so hard, received an A, but could not remember one thing a week after the test was over. As I become more involved in my major, I am starting to realize that I have been motivated for all of the wrong reasons. Because I am an education major, I have been presented many contradicting theories on the importance of grades and actual learning. On one scale, I have had classes geared towards my major that serve to motivate us to focus on experiences and what knowledge we get out of our experiences as learners instead of actual grades. On the other hand, there is an invisible system that locks us into our traditional ways by requiring us to attain specific scores on praxis exams, maintain specific GPAs, and count only those courses in which we earn a grade of C or higher. I know it doesn’t seem like too much to ask, but how as future educators are we supposed to realize the true worth of education and learning when we are being forced to take grades seriously and as a main priority? Not to mention, most of our parents want nothing more than for us to succeed in college and to most of them that means getting A’s or B’s in our classes. Such high expectations and pressures are put on children today to succeed, so what can we expect? In reality, these pressures are causing students to compete amongst their peers and develop anxieties that deter us from achieving true understanding and knowledge that will prepare us for our future. There are many people who suffer greatly after graduation when they cannot find a job because they lack the personal and communication skills that would make them more qualified for the job. Take my brother for example, he interviewed for an intern position and received the offer instantly over someone who had one-up on him in the grades and GPA department. The employer himself told him that the other student he had interviewed was perfectly qualified for the position, but he lacked the personal and communication skills that would make him successful for the job. Although grades serve for some motivation to keep students coming to class and turning in assignments, we have created a system that has deterred our students from learning for their own personal knowledge and exploring their own ideas. I completely agree with the statement in the article that students need to be re-taught about what education truly is. We need to have more people who have a genuine interest in their fields and focus less on grades. However, it is easier said than done, and much needs to be done to change this ongoing problem not only on the students’ part, but also on the teachers, parents, and society’s part as well.
“[Professor Brower] said that if students developed a genuine interest in their field, grades would take a back seat, and holistic and intrinsically motivated learning could take place.” I could not agree more with this statement! Today students are going to college to get the grades, to get the degree, to finally get the career that they so willfully desire, but are losing the desire for the education in itself.
I cannot recall how many times I have heard this statement on campus, “College would be so much better without the classes!” While the idea of a college experience without the formal classes is novel, the entire college would disappear without its firm foundation of offering an education through classes. The tragedy with our generation is that the motivation to work towards a degree and subsequent career has been lost in acquiring a mere letter or number that signifies their academic performance. This problem is not merely the students’ but one that is systematic to the American education system.
Particularly at Penn State, professors have lost sight of the basic aim of educating a student in a specific field within a class and focused on creating individuals who can regurgitate facts and processes for a sporadic formal evaluation. Take my roommate for example. As a computer engineer, he is required to take all sorts of math and science classes that he admits will have no relation to his major or career, but are necessary for a student to take in order to graduate in his major. While I respect the University for requiring students to pursue a broad education across various studies, that intention is lost when students begin despising the very work that is integral to their education?
What if students first became interested and engaged in their field, and then grades were necessary to evaluate if they were succeeding in those classes that flow from their educational engagement? What if students began to worry more about if they were really learning and integrating subject material into daily life instead of worrying if they would be able to remember recent class material for an exam?
The solution would require institutions to change and students to react by pursuing an education above academic performance. It would take many years to reverse the trends that have been so affixed in the minds of faculty and students. According to the opinion of Professor Brower at the University of Wisconsin, Universities must “re-teach students about what education is.” Once they are able to understand what they are working for, they will be able to work for their education and not for their performance. Students would begin to complain less about not acquiring the A they so badly desire and see past the mere number or letter that is pasted on their transcript.
It is my personal opinion that the grade-obsession of today's students is simply a product of the change in the nature of our overall society. Just yesterday I was on the phone with my mom and we were discussing the internship I will be taking this coming summer. "Well, is an internship a requirement to graduate?" she asked me. To be honest, the question kind of made my jaw drop. I spent the next ten minutes explaining to her that, while an internship is not an academic requirement, to leave college without one would be the equivalent of telling corporate America that you do not want a job after you graduate. But while it shocked me that she would even ask such a question, once I stopped to think about it, her inquiry should not have surprised me given the time period she grew up in.
My mother was in college in the late 70's and at that time, as she later explained to me, there just simply wasn't quite as much focus on academics. Yes, you were expected to get a good education and make something of yourself, but students weren't on overdrive like they are now. These days students are expected to hold down part-time jobs, nab an internship, participate in extracurricular activities, and maintain a normal social life all while keeping that academic record as shiny as silver. Everything moves at a faster and more intense pace in the world these days and college students are no exception. Between our jam-packed schedules and the pressure put on our generation by parents, professors, employers and ourselves, is it really any wonder that students feel they deserve, and must obtain at any means, those A's that they believe will catapult them to success in the real world?
Now I am not saying that our busy schedules are an excuse for grade inflation or that just because we "are doing our best" we deserve to just be handed A's. To be honest, I don't want to get an A just because I come to every lecture or do every reading. I want an A because my paper was superb, because my ideas are original and thought-provoking, and because I have a strong enough grasp on the material taught in class to answer those multiple-choice questions you're going to put in front of me correctly. And I don't think I am totally alone in this opinion. What I am getting at here is that, while the increased pressure faced by this generation of students is not an EXCUSE for grade inflation or students demand for A's, perhaps it can be a little bit of INSIGHT into the current college student psyche. Understand where were coming from but, for our own good, don't just hand us Dean's List standing on a silver platter.
The American school system, I believe, is a system that regularly contradicts itself. In high school, it was generally accepted that Cs were considered bad, and anybody that got Cs, was not going to be going to college, and was likely to simply drop out of high school. Now this went on, even though it was though that Cs were supposed to be the average. I believe that came about as a form of escalation. It is similar to the way people drive, the speed limit might be set at 55 mph, but you are going to get tailgated if you drive at 60 mph. If you say that the average person is supposed to get a C in class, then everyone is going to want to get an A or a B. I think it also has a lot to do with teacher and how they don’t want to have to deal with nagging parents “my boy jimmy only got a C on his paper, but his writing is ten times better then everyone in his class and probably better than yours so you better give him a better grade or I’ll bring this up with you superiors!”. It is a shame really that people have a very difficult time accepting the fact they are not above average, or that their offspring are not above average.
So this system results in high school graduates all thinking that they are above average because they tend to all have B+ to A averages. But then these students get to college and they expect the same kind of handed out easy grades and they start to get Cs and Ds so they lash out and expect more. Now we come to the problem of average grade expectations. I took an exam a few months back that had an average of 83%. This, from the teachers perspective, was seen as a problem, because the average of the exam should be somewhere along the lines of a C. Now why is it expected that the average should be somewhere along the lines of a C if the school itself demands that all students in it major have a B+ gpa? This doesn’t make any sense. If you need a 3.0 to get, and stay in your major, then how can classes possibly be graded fairly? If it is always expect that these exam need to have an average of a C, but all students need to get a B, it results in a vicious cycle where the professors are (possibly without doing it on purpose) kicking more and more students out of their classes. I feel that if this system continues then we will result in having fewer students taking classes that they legitimately want to learn about, because they are afraid of being booted from their major.
Hearing the idea that universities want to limit the amount of A’s given in any university, my first reaction was “Excuse me?” I am one of those kids who in high school didn’t have to try for the 90 or above average. I would study 15 minutes before a test, and still end up getting a good grade. This actually made no sense to me in high school because my life has been like that since I can remember from an academic stand point. Then when I got to college, of course, reality set in. No longer were grades easy to get in any sense of the word. But I also didn’t think they would be easy to get even though since before I can remember I did no work for good grades. I do not expect to receive A’s just because I have my whole life. I first learned this in my freshman Honors English class when I turned in my first paper. I guess in high school the teachers I had really didn’t read any of the papers I had written. I received a C on the first paper I wrote, not to mention the 2nd and 3rd. I, of course, blamed this on the teacher. I was so quick to blame him that I didn’t even think that it could be a problem with my writing. But after going his office hours, I realized a lot of what I had written was not what he had been asking for. I know so many people that blame their bad grades on the teachers but once they do well, it’s never the teacher giving the grade, but them earning it. Somehow, in our minds, most students only EARN the good grades.
Another thing I don’t agree with is classes consisting of only 2 exams for the semester and those are the only grades to make up your final grade. There are so many different kinds of learners in the world. There are 40,000 students at this school so there is no way that all 40,000 of us learn and apply concepts the same way. Some people are better at writing papers than taking exams. Some do better on projects or presentations than tests and quizzes. I don’t think it is possible or fair to have only 2 exams a semester and think that your grade actually reflected your knowledge of the subject. Some people can know everything about a subject and be able to tell you all about it, but when it comes to the tests, this is not shown through they’re grades. Testing should not be the only way to evaluate a student’s performance.
In conclusion, I don’t think it is fair to limit the amount of A’s but I also don’t think teachers should become more lenient and just deal out A’s like they are nothing.
I would agree that grade inflation is a bad thing, if society would agree with me. But the problem is, society does not. The motto in SOC119 is that “C’s earn degrees” which is 100% correct. But C’s don’t earn you a lot of things. I know that in my family if I came home with a C, I would immediately get a disappointed look from my mother. If I handed in a resume with a college GPA of 2.00, it may be pushed aside. Hell, I am not even allowed to drop below a 3.00 without fear of being kicked out of my elementary education major, since I am required to maintain a 3.00 average to remain in the program. Perhaps it is easier to earn an A now-a-days than in was years ago, but society no longer looks at C’s as average, they are seen as unacceptable. I don’t believe that if you attend lecture you should automatically receive a B. I mean come on 90% of the time in lecture, even if I am there, I am not paying attention. But none-the-less I expect to at least receive a B in all my classes. Maybe I feel like I put more effort in than others, I don’t know, but I do know that if I had a C average, I would be in a hole (not only with my family but in society). There are employers who look at college GPA before anything else. Your high school GPA is a main part of being accepted into college in the first place. So much emphasis is put on receiving an A, that an A doesn’t even mean going above and beyond anymore. An A is an expected mark for putting in the effort. But until society changes its views on grades and performance on tests, how can any of this change? Like I said before without a 3.00 I am no longer allowed to study my major, and there are other colleges at Penn State that are more competitive than mine. I think it a little hypocritical of university professors to be disagreeing with the grade inflation, while their very own departments are creating rules requiring students to maintain a B average. If teachers want to start taking a C as the average grade, than universities and employers need to start seeing C averages as acceptable. Right now a C may earn you a degree, but it doesn’t really earn you a high place in society. In order to get into grad school or impress your possible employer a high GPA is standard. And isn’t that what we expect of ourselves and of those around us? We do not want to be “just average” making a C. We, as a society, are too competitive for that. We need to go above and beyond and do just as good if not better than the next guy. Really, the way I see it, and the way society sees it, A’s are the only way to go.
When I was in high school, I had one singular goal: I wanted to be valedictorian of my graduating class. This meant that I was obsessed with my grades--I wanted every assignment I handed in and every test I took to be returned with an A. For the most part, I was able to get this accomplished, and in the end I finally got my reward as I graduated first in my class. At the time I was really proud and felt a great sense of accomplishment, but when I came to Penn State I was in for a rude awakening. My freshman year was like hell for me--for the first time ever in my educational career, I was failing exams and I was doing poorly in classes that in high school were easy. At the end of the year, I had barely passed Math 22 with a D, I got a C in Intro to Physics, a B in Biology, and a B+ in my Astronomy Lab. This all came from the same student who the year before could say she had never gotten less than an A+ in anything.
That’s when I realized just how stupid my approach to high school had been. In being so focused on getting A’s, I hadn’t really “learned” anything. I merely read my assignments, took notes, and studied what the teacher said I had to. This formulaic approach to education worked great in high school, and I got A’s for simply doing what was requested of me. After coming to Penn State, I realized what a mistake I’d made when it became painfully aware to me just how much I didn’t know about math and science. I think deep down I knew that I never truly comprehended what I learned in my chemistry and algebra classes in high school, but it didn’t matter to me then because what had been important was that I was able to get the A’s. Speaking from where I am right now (I can really only do basic math now, which is probably equivalent to what a fourth grader knows) I find it impossible to comprehend why my high school teachers ever gave me such high marks. High school standards and college standards are obviously not the same--I am living proof of that.
Since I now realize that high school was basically a joke, I no longer feel any sense of pride about having been valedictorian of my class. Not only was this position achieved with minimum effort and little true learning, but my high school was very small and my graduating class probably consisted of only around seventy people--so was I really that good? Probably not. I laugh now when I think of what a big deal it meant to me that I was valedictorian, because in the grand scheme of things (especially here at Penn State) it really has little to no significance. This might seem a little sad, but honestly, I’m thankful for the revelation. Although I had to learn it the hard way, after my bad freshman year of college I changed my approach to learning and now I worry less about grades and more about true comprehension of what I’m studying. For this reason, I think a grade deflation policy at universities is a good idea--it can knock the pride out of people who think they know everything and prove to them that they aren’t infallible. When this happens, people change their tactics, and true learning can begin.
Although I found this blog to be a bit misplaced among the rest of which pertained to race, it still interested me to a special degree. I think that as a student, I have really seen all sides to this argument. Also being the type of student that I am, I can easily critic both very strongly. I want to start off by simply saying that the actual value of grades has decreased over time. I do not mean that an A nowadays is no longer as valuable as an A years ago, but rather that a student with an A may not actually have learned and A’s worth of material. Sadly, letter grades are simply standards within classes. Once outside of class, the grade that you received does not hold much weight. The only important factor is how much of the topic that you actually learned. Many students—and I know that I have been guilty of this—only “learn” material up until the test. During examination, these kids simply mentally vomit everything they crammed into their minds only hours before, never to see it again. The truth is, however, that even if you got an A in a class, if you do not remember anything you learned then you wasted your time and money. The importance of school and learning is the actual learning aspect of the experience. A person is supposed to expand their mind and change what they already know. A very wise quote that loves to bounce around college is, “C’s earn degrees.” Interestingly enough, some people that know me would probably say that I am being very hypocritical in what I am saying. This is because I have been a straight A student since elementary. And when I say straight A, I mean I have gotten less than a handful of B’s and never anything less as a final grade. However, I am also one of those kids a lot of people get pissed of with because I have never really had to try hard. I just tend to absorb information and am able to repeat whenever needed. Basically, I actually learn things. This creates a sense that I do not have to work hard. Studying does not take long when you do this because you already know the material, and are only reviewing it. In college, I hear all too much kids actually having to teach themselves material right before a test. This is when the information is lost immediately after taking a test. Nobody values knowledge as much as they do grades. I guess this could partly be due to the fact that you can show off grades, when knowledge is more so an internal fulfillment. Basically what I am trying to convey here is that people should look to grades for what they are supposed to represent, and not as a hierarchical system. Grades are really supposed to show how much you have learned and how well you know a given topic, and this meaning has been lost in present standards.
Grades are something that have become more and more important to me as I get older and realize that it is becoming so competitive out there to get a job. In high school, I didn’t try very hard but I still received A’s and B’s and the occasional C. Now that I am in college, my parents have put such pressure on me, that if I don’t bring home a 4.0 or something close to it, I’m looked down upon as if I was slacking off and drinking too many nights of the week. Not the New York Times article, but the one posted below the blog really pissed me off. I cannot believe that a professor would say, if you do the work and do what is expected of you, you will receive a C. Then what the hell are you supposed to do to receive an A? I don’t understand a professor’s happiness giving out C’s. They should be glad that students are doing the work and completing something that in the end, are probably proud of. If you are going to tell them what to do and then tell them if they follow those directions they’ll get a C, students will stress themselves to the point of ridiculousness. Although we are college students, we are still not fully adults. I think it is so wrong when professors think it is funny or normal to completely stress their students our beyond belief. The classes that I have enjoyed the most, are those that do have some large projects, but they are things I enjoy doing because I know the professor will take into consideration that I am in four other classes and I put a lot of hard work into this piece of work. As a journalism student, every story I write, I take time out of my day before my classes begin to interview professors and students to ensure that my article is complete. If my professor disregards this information and work that I put into my piece and gives me a C, I would be less inclined to do the work that I put into a C paper because C is only average, and I put in the work for an A. I know people have become so set on getting A’s and especially since I have transferred to Penn State the amount of competitive students is just outrageous. Kids here will pull all-nighters in the library to ensure that they can bring their parents a list of all A’s at the end of the semester, just for a simple pat on the back and ‘I hope you can do this well yet again next semester.’ I mean last semester I got a 4.0 and all I got was a good job. But if I bring home a C, I know I will get a whole speech and my parents will think that I was out getting drunk rather than studying for my finals. I do agree with the articles when they say that students shouldn’t be so grade obsessed, but giving C’s is not the answer, most internships won’t even take you if you have less than a 3.0!
I think that it is safe to say that the majority of students in high school, college, etc. completely agree with the article. If I work hard and exceed expectations, doing everything that I am expected to do, a C she not be the result. I understand that grades are not the important factor facing a “learning experience,” but many students are forced to take classes that they do not find interesting, exciting, or in any way, shape, or form, related to their lives or future. I must agree that I am one of those students. Although I do not expect an A in every instance, I certainly do not expect a C when I know I have done a great job and given it all my effort. On the other hand, I do think it is a shame how competitive we have all become because of grades. I think that if grades did not exist, students may actually learn more. I know it may seem like a crazy idea, but we are constantly worried and stressing over memorizing, rather than learning. I know that many of the things that I learned in high school that I did not find worth my time, I do not recall now. The subject areas that I excelled in, as well as enjoyed, I actually took something away from that class. I think that a new system needs to be developed that is motivating for students to learn. The idea of getting rid of grades may seem crazy because students will most likely not show up for class, not pay attention, and not care, but we need some form of motivating factor that will not place the emphasis on “memorizing” and simply doing a task because it will help us pass or get by for a grander goal.
With the idea of deflation of grades, I think it is only making the problem worse. It does give the students an accurate perspective as to how many people will be getting each letter grade, and I do think that it is very motivating for each student to make sure that they are one of those students receiving the A. But can you really limit the success of a student? If you choose ten people to get an A in a class and there are potentially twelve deserved A’s, what do you do? Two students are being denied a grade that they actually did deserve. As a student in the College of Education, I will be dealing with similar problems in my future. Although I may not have all the answers and remain very confused as to what the right solution may be, I do know that grades should not be and will not be “idealized” in my classroom, rather success will. Each student has his/her own potential and I believe that progress is a great tool of measuring success. Although it is not a great “grading” tool, it is something worth considering. In the future, I hope my students “learn” not stress over grades or how they performed in comparison to their peers. Learning is the successful method to retaining valuable experiences and I think it is something we all need to work on.
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